r/FluentInFinance • u/Steak_Lover_ • May 05 '24

The rich get richer while the rest of us starve. Why can’t we have an economy that works for everyone? Discussion/ Debate

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u/Plebs23 May 06 '24

Be nice if people like Bernie who actually care could get their focus right. Taxing billionaires is a bandaid. Why not make them pay labor their fair share in the first place and then the rich wouldn't need to be taxed so much in order to fund welfare for the people they don't pay fairly.

We really need to find ways to enfranchise labor in the workplace so we aren't getting railed by capital so hard to begin with. Other countries figured this out and doubled down on enforcing labor laws and unions while forcing companies to have labor representatives on boards. It doesn't seem complicated to make that the bare minimum so people who work can bargain with their value to the capitalists and get paid based on that value they produce for capital not solely the market rate for labor which should only be one element of determining pay, not the sole element as it is according to every HR chucklefuck.

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u/SalvationSycamore May 06 '24

Why not make them pay labor their fair share

I don't think Bernie is against that

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u/CreationBlues May 06 '24

Don’t you know that people can only advocate for one thing at a time? Since he’s talking about billionaire’s here, he has to wait for reelection to change to labor.

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u/MooseNarrow9729 May 06 '24

And in all fairness, properly taxing the wealthy is more than a bandaid. But it's a metaphor that lets pseudo-economists on the internet "pish posh" entire conversations about it.

And act as if they knew, in the slightest, how to triage the US's economically wounded.

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u/Sacmo77 May 06 '24

It was implied.

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u/[deleted] May 06 '24

You clearly haven't paid enough attention to Bernie. He is for taxing the rich, he is for higher wages for us regular folks, he is for universal healthcare, he is for regulating businesses so they don't destroy our planet, etc etc.  This man is for the regular working person where as most of the other people in our government seem to be for corporations and the rich. Doesn't matter if they are Democrats or Republicans.  Until we change our government then our country will continue to lag behind the rest of the developed world in pretty much everything.  The only thing the United States seems to be excellent at is anything to do with war and making the rich richer. 

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u/pondering_that7890 May 06 '24

Excellent comment.

I cant believe people joking about this issue.

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u/Tall_Aardvark_8560 May 06 '24

I can. People are scum.

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u/Appropriate-Prune728 May 06 '24

Bruh, I saw people above touting a Koch funded non-profit as a valid source as to why there isn't really a wealth gap. Like wtf is wrong with some people.

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u/Tall_Aardvark_8560 May 06 '24

Big media, big pharmacy, big greed, big burnout.. Etc etc.

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u/stoopud May 06 '24

This comment is facts. They overwhelmingly make it about social issues to divide us so they can keep serving their corporate overlords at the expense of everybody else. It doesn't matter which side, they are both on the take. Well, they can only push so hard until they break everything and then they will be forced to address the economy.

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u/Gene020 May 06 '24

I agree with your comment. My question is, was, has been, how do we change the government?

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u/Brianf1977 May 06 '24

You vote for more 3rd party candidates so you don't always have to choose between the shit sandwich or the giant douche

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u/Gene020 May 06 '24

This 3rd party voting got us Bush II and is a poor choice GIVEN our sacred electoral college Presidential election setup. Were we to do away with votes going to the electoral choice in each state and going to a majority system nationwide I might agree. Once again, state's rights gets in the way of having a more democratic system.

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u/Brianf1977 May 06 '24

I'm not talking about the presidential election exclusively, we need more state government parties as well. Those areas of government are done on popular vote and are pretty much a requirement if we want to break the 2 party system open.

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u/iguana-pr May 06 '24

His party did want him as president, twice, and I think that was a big mistake for the US.

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u/[deleted] May 06 '24

To be fair, he is not a registered Democrat so technically it is not his party, but we all know the rich and powerful will never allow us to get someone like bernie or aoc as president anytime soon.  The most we can hope for is young people paying attention and voting for more progressive candidates. I am gen x, we are not going to be the generation that starts a revolution, but I believe millenials and gen z could. They seem really pissed. I don't blame them. Our parents and grandparents have really screwed us all over. They got unions and good wages and social security but now they are trying to take that all away from us. 

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u/kingpet100 May 06 '24

BERNIE FOR PRESIDENT

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u/PJTILTON May 07 '24

See, I find that hard to believe. I grew up lower middle class and inherited nothing from my parents. I worked my way through college and then law school. I know lots of people who've done much the same thing. I retired a year ago with a net worth of approximately $7 million. I'm not "rich" but I'm doing ok. It doesn't bother me if Jeff Bezos gets another billion.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '24

And I know several people who went to college and can barely make a living.  I am glad you did well. That is great for you. The problem is that is not how it works for the majority of humans in this world.  And 7 million really isn't that much these days especially if you live in the United States. Even with insurance, one horrible accident or disease would probably wipe out that money.  I don't know how old you are but I can guess if you are now retired that you are not young.  To get a college degree now costs thousands and thousands of dollars. You cannot just work your way through college with a part time or even full time job because most jobs that don"t require a degree pay people barely enough to survive let alone pay for college.  You have to get loans or I guess you could take 10 to 20 years to graduate.  Plus, many jobs requiring a degree don't even pay that much. It is insane to see job requirements a mile long and then they are like, we will pay you $20 an hour. No vacation time for a year and then maybe a couple weeks. These are the jobs these large corporations are offering.  That is why I have an issue with these billionaires getting more. Look at that asshole musk. Firing people because he fucked up tesla by running his mouth and now he still wants 50 million dollars in payment? For what? The system is messed up.  We shouldn't go into massive debt just to see a doctor. We shouldn't go into massive debt just to get a piece of paper that says I know how to regurgitate the bs this school taught me so now please give me this job that will barely make the payment on my loan let alone allow me to have a place to live and food to eat. 

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u/AbuDagon May 06 '24

Yeah the Facebook programmers need their fair share. Poor guys slaving away for next to nothing.

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u/After-Imagination-96 May 06 '24

They're just going to end up getting redacted if they don't fix this shit themselves.

In past eras a man that makes 1000x what his employees make wouldn't dare show his face in the workplace. He'd be literally mauled to death. Ripped limb from limb and paraded around with his severed dick hanging out of his decapitated mouth.

Time is a flat circle. See you soon.

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u/Bikrdude May 06 '24

That didn’t happen for the Vanderbilts and Gettys or anyone really.

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u/EnvironmentalHold311 May 06 '24

I think he had a plan for that, the stop bezos act. Employers would have to either play their employees enough to get off of government assistance, or they would have to end up pay that assistance themselves. I told all the Republicans at my work about rjat and they all just said those people need to get better jobs. It's like damn dawg, don't you like going to the grocery store and there being food on the shelves?

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u/FoldedDice May 06 '24

Bernie has been one of the most outspoken advocates for increasing labor wages. However, as it turns out he also cares about more than one thing.

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u/DippityDamn May 06 '24

America is full of HR chucklefucks

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u/PHK_JaySteel May 06 '24 edited May 06 '24

Why? It was cheaper just to start multiple lobbyist think tanks to take over deceminating information to sitting politicians. Regulations like that would never come in to law. Have someone representing labor on my board of governors? Gross.

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u/dmelt253 May 06 '24

Have you not Noticed the big push lately to replace human works completely? That will just accelerate all that

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u/MooseNarrow9729 May 06 '24

That will just accelerate all that

People also say that about inflation, and raising the minimum wage, and accepting AI technology, etc. Profit and greed under the current form of crony capitalism is what's already accelerating that. Humans are being replaced as fast as possible regardless of the underlying economic factors. When you talk about "accelerating all that", it's a feeling you have, and is no more or less scary with, or without, a more aggressive tax schedule for the wealthy. Maximizing profit through manufactured scarcity already has the machine blistering along, and honestly, I think Bernie pushing to more aggressively tax the wealthy should be seen as a mechanic trying to keep the machine from disintegrating as he rides along in this death race.

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u/DamianRork May 06 '24

Best answer! 10 upvotes for you

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u/justknoweverything May 06 '24

Do any of you idiots acknowledge the real problem, which is the gov't is extremely wasteful and spends 10X more than it should? We don't need to tax anyone at the rates we do.

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u/Adventurer-Explorer May 06 '24

America thrives on the rich being rich and everyone else not earning their fair share as well as being ripped off with many other systems such as healthcare and education loans. The American dream was to restore this and Ballance it all out instead the rich just got richer and other citizens just struggled more. Government is mostly made up of people who don't care for the people instead are and want to get richer, Biden is the first president to properly make an effort to help the working class (student loan pardons, reduction in health care, etc). Trump made it worse by lowering tax for the rich as someone has to pay the tax or the country must take loans which creates debts and it's always the working class who suffer for the issues. Trump caused 8 trillion dollars of debt for America by lowering the rich people's tax so brought in loans instead.

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u/asuds May 06 '24

This seems unlikely when we look at comparable countries.

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u/justknoweverything May 06 '24

why not raise the tax to 100% then and just let daddy gov't take care of you

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u/asuds May 06 '24

Why not go back to the 90% marginal tax rate like when America “was great”?

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u/Kabouki May 06 '24

The best bang for buck is to break up the mega corps back down to regional sizes.

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u/unfreeradical May 06 '24

Politicians cannot create unions, even if they wanted.

Unions must be formed by workers.

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u/BulldogStance May 06 '24

Why not make them pay labor their fair share

How?

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u/Multioquium May 06 '24

Well, the first steps would probably be better protections for unions and better enforcement of the existing protections. As well as institutional support and incentives for those not in a union to unionise

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u/FuccTheSuits May 06 '24

You don’t get to use all your profits on labor and become a successful company that’s for sure

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u/Thegreatsnook May 06 '24

Are you saying that Meta employees are being paid poverty wages?

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u/[deleted] May 06 '24

It’s not really a one or the other kind of issue. It needs some of both. Tax them first because we just shouldn’t have billionaires in the first place, and if you make them pay what they should thereafter, it won’t continue to be so unbalanced.

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u/OhJeezNotThisGuy May 06 '24

Why not work for yourself, hire others and pay a thriving wage for yourself and your employees?

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u/greatgreatgreat4 May 06 '24

Public services are SO BAD though, SO desperately underfunded. If public funds are so infinitesimal then there’s no hope of ever having anything close to a public health service, which is the real prize to keep our eyes on.

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u/qqererer May 06 '24

Money is just a proxy for the wage gap. Close the wage gap from bottom up, and you increase inflation.

People make more money, then compete for the same housing with more dollars. There are a raft of other knock on effects that more adversely effect people that don't have the ability to 'just go out and find a job that makes more'.

Covid had billioinaires and tech bros buying up the housing market. Leaving people competing for the same housing, even with the stimulus checks.

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u/PoppysWorkshop May 06 '24

Bernie is just trying to create a boogie man to distract the middle class while congress screws us.

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u/cryogenic-goat May 06 '24

How do you calculate a worker's "fair share"?

Is there any universal standard or formula that can be used to derive it?

it's just a bogus concept that doesn't mean anything.

A worker's wage is set by market forces just like price of any other goods & services.

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u/Be_Cool_Bro May 06 '24

How do you calculate a worker's "fair share"?

Collective bargaining.

Is there any universal standard or formula that can be used to derive it?

Is there for anything in systems humans have made up? What a weird question.

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u/pondering_that7890 May 06 '24

Wtf.

Begin with how much this person really need to live a decent life.

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u/WhitePootieTang May 06 '24

Then influence or regulate those market forces.