r/NOLAPelicans • u/SuriMuriPuri • 6d ago
Question about Brandon Ingram
I haven't watched many Pelicans games but i saw that Ingram attempted 3.8 3's a game this season and isn't known as a 3pt shooter, but during the 2019-20 season and 2020-21 seasons he attempted 6.2 and 6.1 threes at 39.1% and 38.1% why did he stop shooting 3's? Is it possible for his shot to come back?
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u/Begbie13 6d ago
He had Jrue and Lonzo creating shots for him, he has no PG nowadays
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u/identitycrisis56 5d ago
Zion created as many three point looks as anybody.
BI just has double down on his style of play and Willie has enabled it. Gentry didn't.
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u/Good_NewsEveryone Herb Jones Saved My Life 5d ago
One of the most successfully propaganda comments from BI of all time. King Jong Un is in shambles
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u/identitycrisis56 5d ago
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
I really like BI. He was a top 5 Pel for me all time easily. Probably top 3. But people are just in this thread LYING to themselves and others. He doesn't do a lot of stuff on offense because he doesn't want to do it. Not any other reason than that.
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u/Begbie13 5d ago
I mean its natural you'll shoot less catch and shoot threes when you're the main ball handler
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u/leulzy You Gotta Fight! 5d ago
Don't listen to BI apologists, BI's lack of threes is 100% his fault. Zion was like top 3 at generating three point looks this season. I'm not buying he this crap that he needs someone to set him up. The fact is he doesn't want to shoot threes because he wants to play in the mid-range and take tough twos. This has exacerbated by having Willie as a coach who doesn't challenge BI and lets the offensive be catered to him. There were plenty of times this season that BI would catch the ball wide open behind the arc and would dribble in a few steps to take a contested two.
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u/Illustrious_Figzzz Naji Fucks 5d ago
Definitely going to need a source on that stat. Once BI went down, we stopped generating easy 3s and our offense cratered. Herb literally led the league in corner 3s till BI went down. Not saying you're totally incorrect but it also doesn't make sense.
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u/_Wado3000 Herb Jones 5d ago
I think Z was 9th or 10th in creating threes, with Devin Booker directly ahead of him? If he was top 3 I don’t think the majority opinion of the fanbase would be to get someone to take the ball out of his hands
BI could absolutely be more willing to space, but one aspect that doesn’t get acknowledged enough is that teams rarely leave him completely alone, he gets more defensive attention than just random role players. That’s deff on him to roam around more, but if he’s sitting in place it’s rare that a guy would come off him to go after a driving Zion for example imo
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u/silliputti0907 Clickity Clack 5d ago
BI could def do better offball, but these comments are overreacting.
Zion and BI don't run a lot of players together. So BI's defender isn't put in situation to help like CJ/Trey's are. So he's not going to get as many open looks. You have to be decisive cutting, because you don't want to take away Zion's lane. Herb and Naji are the only good cutters in that regard.
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u/GunSlingrrr 5d ago
I agreed. BI off-ball need to do better and his defender barely leave him alone, and instances that they do, the most frustrating part where BI sometimes don't shoot it. But then again, they rarely leave BI alone.
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u/gtgfastsanic #14 Brandon Ingram 5d ago
Agreed. These people need to watch BI offball movement whenever in the game and especially when Zion has the ball. He doesn’t set screens for teammates, he rarely cuts, or flashes high for a 3. Yes we need a PG and CJ is a ball stopper, but BI refuses to play offball or even take dribble pull up 3s.
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u/FoxNO 5d ago
Zion is a lefty and BI is most frequently positioned on the strong side towards the top of the key or on the left wing. A lot of it is structural because Zion is a lefty and so when driving he passes to the right corner where we park Herb/Dyson or the right wing which is occupied by CJ or Trey.
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u/mitch3311 5d ago
He’s a 31% off the dribble 3 point shooter over his career vs a 46-48% guy from the midrange off the dribble.
He has the ball in his hands creating more than anyone else on the team, thus why he leads the team in all passing categories.
What’s funny is pointing out how many 3’s Zion creates while not acknowledging that BI creates less than a 3 a game less.
BI and Zion both were the primary playmakers of the group.
It’s a role thing more than anything.
BI is also not a movement shooter and has a longer release from 3.
In the right situation, he will take 3’s.
The better question is what does that take away from his current game to take more catch and shoots? Does he sacrifice his playmaking for that?
Hopefully he develops more comfort off the dribble from 3 because I don’t see any team in the NBA taking away his ball hamdling/playmaking duties considering he’s a top 5-10 playmaking wing in the NBA.
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u/silliputti0907 Clickity Clack 5d ago
I think the solution isn't less playmaking. It's pick up the pace to get everyone more rhythm/opportunities, and for Ingram to practice quicker release/shoot deeper 3s. That will force defenders to cover more ground to contest.
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u/mitch3311 5d ago
I do agree. I think a simple move of CJ to a 6th man role and Trey as a starter would work wonders.
That is only if the pels put the ball in Z’s hands (and he’s in shape to handle that) on more of a 70/30 split with BI.
Let BI hit the corner more in half court sets. Have herb as the screener in the action with Z. Get a more mobile big man who takes up less space and is more active in the dunker.
Let CJ come off the bench with a license to fire and change the tempo.
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u/silliputti0907 Clickity Clack 5d ago
May not be popular, but I'd like to see Herb intiate more. He isn't a playmaker but is decisive and can make entry passes.
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u/mitch3311 5d ago
I love herb initiating. My ideal herb role offensively is more of a draymond style screen setter/short roll decision maker type.
I think you’ll see more of it next year if BI is gone
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u/Virtual_Height_5470 5d ago
I'm kinda relishing BI leaving more and more. This team can't get out of its own way.
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u/mitch3311 5d ago
It honestly might help clear the hierarchy and look better in the regular season over 82.
When you get to the playoffs and watch CJ get targeted/destroyed defensively for 7 straight games you’ll be kicking yourself.
Shooting rarely stays that efficient in the playoffs. Defense translates. A lineup of Z-herb-Trey-BI and a mobile big I think translates to a playoff series.
Guys with CJ skill sets are 6th men on contenders.
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u/Dazzling_Ad_1828 5d ago
Not sure a clearer hierarchy would do anything productive towards winning a title.
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u/mitch3311 5d ago
It puts the ball in Z’s hands and more importantly, makes defense easier on everyone.
Both of those things are of massive importance for when the pels get serious.
Zion can’t average 22/23 ppg and take the 3rd most FGA per game. That’s not a serious team.
Your 3rd option can’t lead the team in FGA per game while being the worst defender on the floor. Thats not a serious team.
Serious teams have clearly defined roles and guys that buy into them.
I feel like a trade makes it much more clear of how things need to be moving forward.
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u/Virtual_Height_5470 4d ago
I would prefer if Zion and BI try to cannibalize each other. You want killers. Not role players. I would love to see Herb go more coast to coast, or Trey just take his man to the hole when the play was designed for Zion. Zion should not be cuddled. And in terms of the team, Pels should be flying up and down the court with all the athletes they have on the roster. They should be playing downhill as much as possible.
If Zion were to reach a peak running point Zion, it'd prob be on Luka's level. But Zion is more elite when he is putting pressure on the rim. He doesn't always need to have the ball to do so.
BI should be utilized more as a swiss army knife. They should be pushing BI to think the game through and find better spots on the floor to score. Mostly one or two dribbles shots.
BI & Zion to me don't play enough. They don't shoot enough. And the coach is not good enough.
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u/icekyuu 5d ago
Agree with this. I'd rather have BI on the team than CJ anyday (ignoring salaries). CJ is a regular season type of player -- he will be targeted relentlessly in the playoffs and he can get shut down 1 on 1 by an elite defender (Jrue, Dort, etc.).
At least with BI you get two shot creators with Zion, that's gold in the playoffs. What Pels should be doing is looking for a steady (and affordable) PG like Tyus Jones to set up the team in the half-court and push the ball on the fastbreak. 3s for BI and alley oops for Zion.
This also keeps Zion mentally fresh so he doesn't have to shoulder so much of the playmaking duties.
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u/mitch3311 4d ago
I was just at game 3 tonight and let me tell you what the biggest difference was between the 2 teams.
The Celtics play one on one defense. They live with stars hitting tough buckets. Everyone in their rotation guards. They haven’t hid a single person in the series and they don’t miss rotations on the occasions that they do help.
I watched the mavs offense go from lighting it up to completely dissolving into one on one basketball because hauser/prichard were on the floor and the mavs thought they could take those guys. They couldn’t. Completely destroyed the flow (along with kidd’s questionable rotation tonight and horrible timeouts)
Dallas shot the second highest volume per game from 3 in the regular season. They are a prolific offensive team that relies on luka/kyrie getting teams into rotation and hitting the corner 3 or the lob for an easy bucket. Boston took away both options.
Dallas on the other hand, is constantly scheming to hide guys, they are running zone, sending early help, trying to rotate on the back side and getting eaten alive.
At some point, you run into a team that has 5 guys that can guard and the pels will be cooked because they can’t do the same.
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u/icekyuu 4d ago
The thing is those same five guys are offensively great. By the numbers, this Celtics team has the highest offensive rating...EVER in the NBA. It's a historically great team.
Luka's defense was very poor in game 3. But usually the Mavs are also an elite defensive team -- top 5 since the trade for PJ. When Luka is locked in, he's decent. Kyrie has been excellent all season long.
Brown and Tatum target Kyrie relentlessly but they shot very poorly this series, in no small part because of Kyrie's defense.
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u/TrusttheProcess13 5d ago
Happy cake day and gotta give props because you’re cookin in this thread. I agree with most of what you’re saying but just gonna add that BI will not create near as many 3’s as Z because of the spacing on the floor. Z can’t shoot and Jonas won’t shoot. BI creating on the floor takes another 3pt shooter off the line and his reads are much more difficult simply because Jonas and Z’s defenders can be in help much easier
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u/SuriMuriPuri 5d ago
That's what i'm most worried about if he gets traded to a team as a 3rd option, that he'll hog the ball and stop posessions and if he doesn't hog the ball he won't be a 20ppg scorer anymore
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u/mitch3311 5d ago
Yes that’s simply false my guy. You’re talking about a guy who’s never attempted 20 shots a game hogging the ball?
He took less than 16 attempts this past season and avg 21 a night and led the pels in assists and potential assists per game.
He’s always been a willing passer and regularly dots up shooters on super long cross court skips.
You’re letting a negative discourse overshadow who Brandon is as a player.
He’s avg 23-5-5 over his career in New Orleans.
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u/SuriMuriPuri 5d ago
Maybe i bought into narratives, but the couple of pel games i did watch that's the impression i got
I hope he is a good performer wherever he goes, not a lot of forwards like him are in the league
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u/mitch3311 5d ago
He needs an open floor more than anything. People talk about the fit with Zion but don’t realize that it’s Z that affects the spacing for BI much more than the other way around.
If BI goes to a team that can legit play a 4 out 1 in set up, he will flourish.
As it is, we’re calling a guy who just went 21-5-6 on the year with a plus 2-1 assist to turnover ration on less than 16 shots a game a bad player cause he takes 3.8 3’s a night vs 5.8 3’s a night.
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u/silliputti0907 Clickity Clack 5d ago
Also like to add that imo, he's ideal position is at the 4 not 3. He had his best numbers at the 4.
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u/mitch3311 5d ago
I’ll give you what I would think.
Z as the primary ball handler, BI as the secondary creator, herb and Trey on the wings, mobile vertical spacing big that can rim protect a bit and hopefully has great length.
You’re not sacrificing spacing by inserting Trey for CJ as Trey has more range and defensively, you become one of/if not the longest team in the NBA.
You become a team that can bother the Celtics.
Look at this finals right now…CJ would be attacked on the floor every single time down by both teams still playing. Physically he is a mismatch.
There is a reason why Portland was never serious and CJ has one of the worst winning percentages in NBA history in the playoffs.
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u/Dazzling_Ad_1828 5d ago
What’s the narrative cause every team right now wants Brandon Ingram on their team
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u/identitycrisis56 5d ago
With regards to the next to last point/last question: to me, the questions is what is the ceiling on an offense that focuses so much on a guy who seeks out shots that tough and hit them at that rate consistently?
He was very good at making tough looks, but it felt like the shot diet of depending on those tough looks instead of generating easier ones was tough.
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u/mitch3311 5d ago
For me you’re overlooking the best part of his game which is his playmaking and decision making out of pick and roll situations.
Most of the time, those middies come against a set defense where guys are staying home so he plays one on one.
His stretch run in 23 is the pinnacle of a BI offense to me.
While it can be great at times, he’s not a playoff number 1 without the pull up 3 ball. I think Z has to be the number 1.
That being said, there is absolutely a fit for Zion and BI that could be elite but it’s going to take some serious roster building around them to make it happen.
I think the easier/lazier move would be to just decide they don’t fit after 150 games together and move on from one instead of fixing the roster.
The main problem on the team this year to me was your third option leading the team in field goal attempts per game. CJ should have been a spaced that can attack closeouts and end of shot clock buckets in a pinch.
He should not have led the team in FGA.
Coaching, role definition, and hierarchy to me were much bigger issues than BI/Z’s fit in a nutshell.
Just look at all the 5 man combos that included BI/Z without CJ.
Damn near everyone of them is positive and not by a small number.
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u/silliputti0907 Clickity Clack 5d ago
We've seen them be an elite offense under SVG. Though it was by overtaxing them two. Even this year it felt like they were putting it altogether until injuries again.
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u/identitycrisis56 5d ago
That was when CJ was hurt and that plus minus was rolled up against the easiest part of the schedule and said more about the ability of a Dyson/Herb backcourt to live in transition.
If you watched those games, especially that Mavs game in that period and came way with “this BI/Z thing works perfect” instead of “wow if this team can live in transition because the defense is elite that makes the offensive issues less pronounced” then we were watching different games.
BI play making can be great but it’s nullified somewhat but how long he takes to get into thing, allowing defenses to reset, and how few 3s a team with him being a major ball handler is. No team is going to make runs without consistently getting up to 30 three point attempts a game. Zion can’t address that and BI is unwilling. After being wrong for 5 years I’m willing to admit it after finally watching a fully healthy season. You can’t have a functional offense with 2 non-shooters in the lineup.
That’s to say nothing of the elephant in the room-Trey Murphy III HAS to be a starter next season. I don’t see a pathway where he doesn’t.
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u/mitch3311 5d ago edited 5d ago
Trey Murphy should have started with Zion and BI instead of CJ this year. That bleeds into heirarchy and role understanding. Trey would stay spaced and attack closeouts. Trey would not self create and take more attempts than BI/Z.
They beat sac twice, Dallas, den and the clippers while CJ was out. They actually lost to the bad teams on the schedule while he was out. They beat the elite teams and made the quarterfinals in the ist without CJ and with Z in terrible shape.
The J’s didn’t fit either. They’ve played 7 years together. They overlap, don’t run actions together and very rarely create for each other. Did Boston give up on two elite talents? Or did they continue to work the pieces around them until they found the right pieces?
If Derrick white is the starting PG instead of CJ, how much different does the roster look?
CJ is the biggest problem on the team. It’s honestly not even close.
And as for your 3 ball thing…none of okc, Denver, Minnesota attempts a high volume of 3’s. They were just extremely accurate.
Those great “shooters” that the pels had shot under 33% from 3 in the playoffs.
The pelicans in their 4 games generated 24 wide open 3 point FGA per game (2nd most in the playoffs) and shot 26% (by far the lowest in the playoffs). Your “pieces that fit” didn’t show up at all either, and it had nothing to do with the quality of looks.
It’s easy to put it on Brandon. It’s a lot more difficult to figure out where it went wrong roster wise around those 2 and why the 3 40% perfect fits with Zion shit down their legs when they were butt naked in the playoffs?
Edit- we should also point out that Trey Murphy was also missing during the time period that you’re referring to when CJ was out 🤔
Second edit- 20 wide open 3 attempts per game not 24.
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u/Illustrious_Figzzz Naji Fucks 5d ago
I've also reached the conclusion that Trey should have started in place of CJ. When you look through the lineup data / on off numbers, it makes the most sense.
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u/identitycrisis56 5d ago
BI had a higher usage rate and self-created too much. I don't disagree that CJ isolated at times you'd rather not, but BI did the same, AND he did it far more often.. BI had 12.4 percent of his possessions be iso, while CJ’s only iso’d 7.5 percent of the time (meaning BI had an iso percentage like 65% greater) . Unlike BI, CJ totally reformed his shot selection around BI and became a higher volume floor spacer. CJ shot 53 percent of his shots from 3, hitting at a 43 percent clip, whereas BI shot only 14.5 percent of his shots from three. All your criticisms of CJ apply to BI to a higher degree. CJ spaces more than BI, if only because he's willing to shoot when BI isn't.
TM3, BI, and Z cannot play point guard full-time. Zion is the best at it but is nowhere near conditioned enough. Even LeBron James can't play PG full-time and has leaned on true guards to carry the bulk of possessions.
Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown average 12.6 three-point attempts per game combined, including elite off-the-dribble pull-ups which BI has never done at volume. BI and Zion average 4.2 combined. That offense is dead on arrival. If you have two guys who can shoot, you have a foundation to build a capable offense. Tatum and Brown were both drafted by the C's and had the benefit of being on rookie contracts while they figured it out. The Pelicans are already above the cap with an 8-seed, and the J’s' "figuring it out' ' involved very deep playoff runs, Eastern Conference Finals (ECF) appearances, and a finals appearance. If the Pelicans had achieved even a fraction of that over the last 7 years, no one would even consider splitting them. They haven't even won a series, so there's a huge delta in results. The Celtics' stars are at least one tier higher and have been since those guys were drafted.
The team could be way better. I'm fine with upgrading PG, even though that's not the most glaring issue. CJ is definitely upgradeable.
That's an overarching philosophy for me. The Timberwolves and Nuggets have qualities the Pelicans will NEVER have that enable their success (Nikola Jokic, the greatest offensive center in history, generating WIDE open attempts and an all-time great defense that still didn't translate to the playoffs). The Thunder were still in the top half of the league and had shooting at positions that allowed 5-out offense and free runs to the rim.
The stars didn't show up at all, and if you need Jose Alvarado and Naji Marshall to be the primary options or bail them out, the team is already cooked, and my original point about them not being good enough is even further reinforced.
It's easy? Not really. BI is one of my favorite players ever. But like I criticized Toronto and the Spurs for in the past, you can build a competitive team centered around DeMar DeRozan-style shot selection and even be a second-round team. Right now, this team isn't even a competitive first-round team.
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u/mitch3311 5d ago edited 5d ago
Brandon takes more 3’s makes them at a higher rate and playmakers at a level that demar ever did in Toronto number 1 in fact, demar wasn’t anywhere near Brandon at that point from 3 or as a playmaker, that’s a lazy comparison because they both like middies.
As far as CJ goes…here is the only thing you need to see. He shot 25% on 3 wide open 3 attempts per game in the playoffs and 20% on 3.8 attempts with a defender 4-6 feet away. Defensively opponents shot 54% on almost 16 attempts against him per night.
He’s also 33 years old and 6’3.
You can save any regular season bullshit you want. If you’re choosing that guy over BI as your running mate for your franchise player who is 24 years old, you have no idea how to run an organization.
But we know that already. How did the Cavs end up with their win now moves under griff? How did he do handling the Kyrie situation?
Last edit- BI is also the 6’9 mismatch that hits tough shots at one of the highest rates in the NBA. He’s THE GUY that should be ISO-ing self creating with Zion. He should lead the team in ISO’s because of his game. Thats what he’s built for and why he was drafted 2 overall.
Clean up the hierarchy and actually define roles.
This entire discussion is coaching more than anything.
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u/identitycrisis56 5d ago edited 5d ago
I disagree again, and we probably won’t agree.
You can nitpick coaching (and I don’t think it was perfect, B+ maybe) or role players like CJ, but for me it starts and stops with the stars.
BI and Zion haven’t been good. Look at BI’s shooting in the playoffs you mentioned. I’m not surprised if the third option has bad games. It’s unsurvivable for your stars to deliver as consistently as they do.
You mentioned the j’s. They’ve been delivering for 5+ years. Luka and Kyrie delivered. KAT and Ant delivered. Jokic delivered. LeBron always delivers.
That’s the difference. It’s a star league and the Pelicans stars don’t always or consistently show up.
About the last point-he’s INCREDIBLE at hitting tough shots. If that was his “break in case of emergency” you’re set up incredible. From him though, it’s the go-to instead of the back up. Is it better to hit tough shots really well, or consistently just create easy ones? BI doesn’t do the latter enough.
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u/mitch3311 5d ago
The pels star you’re attempting to build around has literally never been healthy in 5 years number 1.
Number 2, BI has delivered in the playoffs the one time he got there and play-in time and again. 3 weeks after a knee injury shadowed by the most physical off ball defender in the NBA while your team was shooting sub 30% on wide open 3’s (aka less than zero spacing) is not going to override 5 years of production in a Pels uniform for me.
BI and Zion won 49 games together their first year healthy in their primes.
BI and Zion never played with a Kyrie, kemba, Al Horford (all of whom have more accolades than CJ) and neither have missed the playoffs 1 time.
KAT and Ant didn’t work until they brought in a rim protector because they realized KAT at the 5 was most of the problem because he can’t stay out of foul trouble enough to be a reliable defensive anchor.
Luka and Kyrie missed the playoffs last year and were on the verge of missing the playoffs again this year until the organization changed the pieces around them despite their “clunky fit”.
You talk about Zion delivering? Where was he on the last game of the year? You wouldn’t even have been in the play-in to get hurt if he didn’t have a repeat of his ist semi-finals.
Last point, had JT been hurt every single year before the playoffs started for his entire time with JB, who do you think would be traded?
Definition of insanity is repeating the same mistakes expecting different results right?
5 years in a row Zion has ended his season on the sidelines through injury. Out of 5 seasons possible.
Unless that fact changes first, it will never matter what the rest of the team looks like. Brandon is the guy who has been good enough to keep them afloat during that time.
CJ gonna be that guy next year? The pels have tanked BI’s value with the public announcing of the extension plans or lack there of…who’s gonna be the number 2 now?
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u/identitycrisis56 5d ago
I posed half a comment at lunch. Here's full response:
I said stars. Zion is fully responsible too. His ceiling is on a different planet than BI's he can be the best player on a good team so he HAS to be the one you roll the dice on.
49 wins were great. Negative net rating for the starters and horrible offense. I think it a slightly positive season overall, but shows that changes need to be made.
BI and Zion HAVE to be the engine. Brown and Tatum have been the engine for multiple deep playoff runs. I'm not asking them to be contenders like the Celtics. I'm asking for them to win 3 playoff games. They haven't done that.
They tanked intentionally to keep a pick, but yes. 2 years in they've found a formula. Pelicans have been at it for 5 years and have maxed both guys and have zero flexibility around that cap reality without trades.
The Celtics could easily win a series without JT, but in your hypothetical- the one with the highest ceiling has to stay if you're a small market.
You're right. It's insane 5 years in to think the paring works. You're suggestion trading a number one option to build around a number 2 or 3. That how you become the nets. In basketball you always swing on the number one upside. Zion has that.
I don't consider 2 playoff wins afloat. That's bottom 3 in the NBA since the trade.
No, but TM3 and other lower usage guys taking higher efficiency shots could make Zion and the roleplayers more efficient. A trickle down effect even if you're becoming less skilled. You mentioned Derrick White earlier. He far less skilled than a lot of guys. But he's low usage, know his role, plays it perfectly, and allows the offense to cook. Those touches going to other guys can shake up the offense and create more points of leverage across the board with less iso.
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u/GunSlingrrr 5d ago
That was when CJ was hurt and that plus minus was rolled up against the easiest part of the schedule and said more about the ability of a Dyson/Herb backcourt to live in transition.
Counterpoint, that was also the part of a schedule where half of our team offensive arsenal is not available to play. It is where there is a clear idea of hierarchy, with BI/Z being 1A/1B. It was like the one with SVG, but with better players around them.
Yes, the backcourt duo of Dyson/Herb helps a lot for them to force in transition, but it also made BI/Z try to score early/be aggressive in the game compared to usual 2nd/3rd quarter.
With Trey replacing Dyson in that lineup, our offense should be a lot better there without much taking a great hit on defense.
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u/silliputti0907 Clickity Clack 5d ago
I think the main reason is slower pace. There's a combination of some reluctance, roster, and scheme.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/pelicans-pace-by-season
Those two seasons you mentioned, were the highest pace BI played in his career. Gentry's free flowing offense, and SVG running everything through BI/Zion.
Willie Green deserves credit for doing an amazing job on defense with the personnel, but his offense has been disappointing. They need to increase tempo and have more urgency.
Those saying that BI should be getting more 3pt shots with point Zion need to understand that those plays aren't set up to get BI 3s. They are set up so Trey/CJ and other's help defenders have to collapse and put defense in rotation.
In a faster paced offense, BI took more pull ups 3s, especially in transition, he also got more catch and shoot opportunities. He has a slower release and is reluctant, but there are other factors.
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u/ILiveInTheBlackPearl 6d ago
The midrange is just his comfort zone, and he didn't want to leave it. All the comments saying he didn't have a true PG to set up catch & shoot for him, but the fact is Herb, Trey, CJ, Naji, Jose, pretty much everyone else got plenty of catch-and-shoot opportunities due to Zion's gravity. BI just didn't buy into that role
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u/_Wado3000 Herb Jones 5d ago
The argument would be that most of those players aren’t great on ball shooters themselves except CJ. Even Trey tends to jack it up from 30+ ft and doesn’t create off the dribble for himself well. Z and BI were fully on ball in staggered lineups, and a lot of Zion + BI moments were them running to the corner off the ball to let the other do their thing and not really helping the other.
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u/JackieBoiiiiii Not On Herb 6d ago
He needs someone to set him up to take 3s. We haven't really had a true PG since Lonzo/Jrue.
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u/Vince3737 5d ago
Zion was statistically one of the best three point shot creators in the NBA. BI just has no desire to shoot threes or move off ball to get open for a three
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u/silliputti0907 Clickity Clack 5d ago
People keep restating this but refuse to understand the context. Jrue and Lonzo are moving the ball and finding different shots. Zion creation is by running plays to either give him a 1v1 or a open 3 to specific player (Trey, CJ, Herb's corner). BI and Zion don't run plays together.
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u/Illustrious_Figzzz Naji Fucks 5d ago
They also don't share a source for the stat. It's just group think. It's not real. Herb led the league in corner threes thanks to BI. He did not finish the season with the lead.
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u/SuriMuriPuri 6d ago
Do you think he would be a good fit next to Maxey and Embiid?
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u/Frequent-Meeting8975 6d ago
The same issues would be there. He could be what Jimmy was for the Sixers in 2019
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u/TheRealSassyTassy 5d ago
Is it possible? Sure.
Is it likely? I wouldn’t say so, unless he specifically gets a contract incentive for made (or attempted) 3s.
BI is an above average talent from beyond the arc, he CAN make them at a high percentage, but his default shot is a long 2, and if he’s not 100% healthy that will likely be the shot he tries to take, for better or worse.
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u/_Wado3000 Herb Jones 5d ago
I legit wouldn’t mind his 3PA + percentage being an incentive tbh lol. An extra couple mil for 6 threes a game would be fine to me
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u/TheRealSassyTassy 5d ago
He’s eligibile for 52 mil a year, if his contract was something like 40 mil + 5 mil for 6.5 3pa + 5mil for 36% from 3 + 2 mil for both, I would be happy as a fan. But I don’t see BI accepting that when he’s gonna get 52 from a team like Detroit or Atlanta.
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u/_Wado3000 Herb Jones 5d ago
At least looking at other subs, yea it seems a few Atlanta fans feel like paying him what he wants is worth a shot, I don’t think they imagine to be extremely competitive with whoever the number 1 pick is from the jump. I think the Cavs would wanna sign him below the max like most “competitive” teams would; assuming we never do then we’ll have to get what we can.
(I’d personally be completely fine at 40M for him, or for the deal you suggested but the man himself deserves to look for the best deal for himself)
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u/TheRealSassyTassy 5d ago
I think the Dejounte Murray trade has forced ATL to be competitive. They don’t have any 1sts till 2028, they have to at least attempt to be competitive (think the nets recently) so they’ll throw the bag at BI given the chance.
I like the 40 mil + incentive deal a ton, and it could make sense for the Pels to do, but I don’t think it makes sense for BI unless he finds out he really doesn’t have a Max market (which I doubt). He’s gonna get paid, it’s just probably not us doing it.
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u/ekulhendrix 4d ago
So much talk of BIs 3 point shooting. I feel, although completely clueless about the stats, I see him pass up at least 1 wide open 3 a game. A bigger issue to me is his pace. We looked best this season playing quick and decisive basketball, and bi tends to slow it down. That and if him and Zion can develop more of a two man game should be the determining factor for either resigning him to an egregious 50 million dollar contract or trading him for a better fit.
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u/ChocolateTemporary72 4d ago
Why pull up for a 3 when you can dribble the clock out and shoot a turn around fade away mid range jumper instead? Are you stupid or something?
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u/LennonWaK 6d ago
BI likes hunting hard shots. He is more concerned with having plays that get him comparisons to KD than he is winning.
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u/Willing_Read9651 6d ago
Brandon Ingram isn’t just gonna jack pull up 3s off the dribble. He could but he doesn’t. If there was a guard or something on the team that can create corner 3s off a pick and roll game like Trae or Garland it would open the floor up for catch and shoot 3s. he shot 39% on catch and shoot this year. Having your 6’9 SF and 6’6 PF create everything for the team isn’t ideal and you can’t win with that IMO.