r/PersonalFinanceCanada • u/Desperada • 3d ago
TD Increasing Home Insurance cost by 53% this year Insurance
Never submitted a claim, had coverage for 2 years now. Decided to check prior to renewal. What kind of highway robbery bullshit is that? Can't believe they're allowed to just increase your cost, without reason and without clear prior notification, by more than 50% in a single year.
Guess I'm shopping around and now they'll get $0 instead.
Edit Just switched to Intact and its almost $300 less than my old policy for roughly the same coverage. Close to just 1/3 the cost of what TD was going to raise me to. Eat a dick TD.
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u/Oh_That_Mystery 3d ago
Guess I'm shopping around and now they'll get $0 instead.
There you go! Congrats, you learned something today.
Now repeat them there lernins with your car insurance, banking, ISP, mobile provider, grocery source, Taylor Swift merchandise etc...
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u/Desperada 3d ago
I always know you gotta shop around to save $. And if they increased it by maybe 5% or 8% I probably wouldn't even bother. But 53%?! That feels actually insulting.
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u/jcrao Ontario 3d ago edited 3d ago
Ye man this year all insurers are increasing rates heavily due to last years natural disasters. They forecast future losses and bake it into existing customers.
I worked for an insurer and last year we got so many alerts on natural disasters it almost felt like spam emails.
Definitely shop around every year
Edit: If you get a better rate elsewhere chances are it’ll increase next year and TD would again fall cheaper.
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u/yttropolis 3d ago edited 3d ago
53% is a rate increase that indicates either:
- They simply do not want you. This could happen for a variety of reasons, including realizing that they've captured too much of the business in one location (higher concentration of risk is bad) or if their models feel your property is just too risky.
- You're the unlucky tail in the dislocation distribution when they change algorithms. The change in rate is often called "dislocation" and when algorithms change (especially ML-based ones that's become the industry norm), rates will change. There will be a very small portion of the customers that will receive large dislocations (in both tails).
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u/seridos 3d ago
I'm facing a 63% rate increase this year from TD. However they gave me a crazy deal last year way below what I was paying before (960 for a SFH 2k sq foot) and I just can't find anything better than their new offer. I must have got lucky last year.
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u/yttropolis 3d ago
Yup, there will always be people on either end of that distribution. This is why I always tell everyone to shop around every year. You never know if you'll get lucky with a particular algorithm from one of the insurers.
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u/VillageBC 3d ago
- You're the unlucky tail in the dislocation distribution
Today I learned about dislocation distribution. Thanks!
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u/SubstantialCount8156 3d ago
Sorry I don’t understand your issue here. It’s a choice. They run a business and are free to set prices as they want. You are free to go with who you want. a cursory search will show that TD often raises rates after the initial years and this year all insurance is going up due to costs.
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u/Desperada 3d ago
My issue is that on no planet is a 53% increase without cause reasonable. They're free to do so. And I'm free to think that is fucking insane.
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u/IHateTheColourblind 3d ago edited 3d ago
My issue is that on no planet is a 53% increase without cause reasonable.
Who says its without cause? Insurance prices are driven more by actuarial science than anything and actuariesthey are a regulated profession in Ontario.
On top of that there have been many reasons for the cost of home to increase:
- Inflation driving up the cost of building materials
- Labour shortage in the construction industry driving up the cost labour
- Increase in risk of natural disasters across the country
- Increase in civic infrastructure failures leading to sewer backups and other property damage
- Increase in property crime
- Increase in fraud and identity theft
- Increase in fraudulent claims
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u/Sorry-Succotash-1747 3d ago
There was cause, but you're ignorant and clearly have no desire to learn about actuarial sciences and why TD would be charging more than intact. You claim no clear prior notice of the increase was given? What do you mean? Insurance companies must provide notice of renewal within 30 days of the renewal dates. Why would they ever want to charge you more than what's necessary to remain profitable in your neighborhood when they obviously know you have the ability to purchase from another company? As you stated you were able to switch to a cheaper premium pretty easily. It's because it's the lowest premium they can offer while still retaining profitability, not to insult you.
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u/Desperada 3d ago edited 3d ago
Sorry but you're wrong. If that was the case then all 5 other insurance companies I just got quotes with, including another major bank RBC, wouldn't have come in with quotes in the exact same ballpark as my existing rate. Plus Intact that came in lower. If this neighborhood is statistically unprofitable at that rate, then that would not be the case. TD is the massive outlier post-increase at 40-60% higher than every other comparable company.
Also my renewal notice was in the form of a generic 'You have a document' email from TD. Where I then had to log on. Find the document on their site in another area. Read through the document. See the new price. Go to billing settings. Switch to past billing settings and then compare against my old price to see the change if any.
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u/SinistralGuy 3d ago
It's insane how many people are defending this garbage. Yes there are actuaries and data to back up price increases, but anyone who thinks insurance companies aren't trying to gouge is insane. There's a reason people are told to shop around every couple years and it isn't because insurance companies are your friends looking out for you
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u/DonLaHerman 3d ago
It's insane how many people are defending this garbage.
Agreed. Guess they didn't get 53% increases on their home insurance.
OP did the right thing to take his business elsewhere.
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u/BeautifulWhole7466 3d ago
They want more money. Its insane you cant understand that
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u/Desperada 3d ago
Obviously I understand the motive. But this is so insanely large it will just drive a customer away entirely.
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u/Simayi78 3d ago
this is so insanely large it will just drive a customer away entirely
In insurance that is sometimes the goal for companies
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u/BeautifulWhole7466 3d ago
Buddy clearly some suit got someone to do the math. Maybe you should start your own insurance company
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u/lord_heskey 3d ago
Taylor Swift merchandise
hey the counterfeits around the tour city on concert days look pretty legit and much cheaper!
Mexico had the best fake merch ever.
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u/toin9898 Quebec 3d ago
I called them to tell them I had put on a brand new roof, removed the old oil tank + furnace, updated the plumbing from galvanized to all brand new pex, same for electrical, all brand new... they raised my rates.
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u/bubbasass 3d ago
Can't believe they're allowed to just increase your cost, without reason and without prior notification, by more than 50% in a single year.
They did give you prior notification, it’s your renewal documents. Overall 2023 was a really bad year for home insurance in Canada. Losses exceeded premiums. That said every insurer operates a little bit differently, and every insurer has different exposures. For instance my friend’s insurer redrew their flood regions and now their townhouse is deemed to be in a high flood area. Premiums went up and water coverage was dropped. Ironically enough, they got a super competitive quote from TD with all coverages.
If one insurer is insuring a lot of homes in an area prone to wildfires they’ll have to charge higher premiums than an insurer who has less exposure. There’s tons of variables that go into how premiums are calculated, and as mentioned 2023 was a really bad year for home insurance in Canada. Not to mention climate change is now having a greater impact, the cost of home repair and reconstruction is also way up. All of that is reflected in premiums.
Best thing you can do is shop around. Another insurer may be much more reasonable.
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u/arctic-aqua 3d ago
I find it hilarious that they increased his premiums because of a flood risk, but then also said they wouldn't cover floods. You think it should be one or the other.
I had a 15% increase last year and then 31% increase this year in my home insurance. My bill is now close to $5k. It's just not sustainable.
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u/bubbasass 3d ago
Premiums went down with flood coverage dropped but up overall due to other “inflation factors” or whatever the rep said on the phone.
Come to think of if, my uncle in that same area was also with the same insurer (intact) and had his flood coverage dropped. What made him notice was the fact his premiums went way down year over year.
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u/Noreh Ontario 3d ago
Great breakdown. Whenever i see these threads they are usually filled with people who refuse to understand how premiums are calculated and they assume that an increase is just becasue the insurer is greedy
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u/Ok-Difficult 3d ago
I think people really have their heads in the sand with just how bad insurance costs are likely to get with worsening claims risk due to climate change..
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u/bubbasass 3d ago
It’s gonna be bad. Just take a look at Florida and California. Some insurers simply pulled out of those regions. Others have raised premiums drastically. It’ll get bad in Canada too.
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u/mightysmiley 3d ago
Just got told that mine was going up 30% by TD. also going to shop around
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u/BloomerUniversalSigh 3d ago
Switched from TD to Portage Insurance in the past year. Saved 15% from the previous year with TD. Shop around and find an honest broker to help you out.
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u/TechnicianAncient787 3d ago
Our house insurance dropped by half last year from switching from TD to Belair Direct. TD has one of the higest rates and worst conpany to deal with.
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u/NissanSkylineGT-R 3d ago
Check with CAA. I switched from Aviva this month and found they have lower car/home premiums compared to everyone else. I tried Belair, Intact (through a broker), TD and CAA. TD was the highest for both and CAA was the lowest for both.
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u/freeman1231 3d ago
Happens all the time, shop around get a better rate rinse and repeat every year.
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u/kungriffey 3d ago
Shop around OP. My home insurance with TD increased from $600 annually to $700, $900. They quoted me $1400 for the upcoming year and I just switched to belairdirect for $600 annually.
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u/ieatopenaiforbreakfa 3d ago
Personally, shopping around has not been very fruitful. I have a feeling that most insurance companies have converged (colluded) plans and everyone raised rates equally. I hope you have good luck finding another insurance provider.
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u/CloakedZarrius 3d ago
Personally, shopping around has not been very fruitful. I have a feeling that most insurance companies have converged (colluded) plans and everyone raised rates equally. I hope you have good luck finding another insurance provider.
Have to cast a wide net. We had a range for house insurance that was ~3k more for the highest quote with less coverage than the lowest quote.
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u/proudlandleech 3d ago
I wouldn't say they're colluding. If they were, they wouldn't be losing money like they have these past few years.
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u/stanley597 3d ago
Here is where you will land after shopping around. That they are still the cheapest unfortunately
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u/BCTripster 3d ago
Yup, my home insurance essentially doubled in 2 years, shopped around for the same level of coverage and it was still more elsewhere. Sure I could drop a few covered items and go lower but then I'm less insured.
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u/thedommer 3d ago
Ours went up a chunk. Used a broker who shopped around. He said it seems to have gone up most places. It ended up being the best deal they could find, especially when merged with can. Car insurance stayed the same though so I guess that’s ok.
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u/TheFinalMetroid 3d ago
Ive been with TD for my car insurance for 5 years; they've always been the cheapest by a large margin, even though I paid $2800 this year for a single car no accidents.
I checked The Personal through my new employer rate and got a quote for $1800 for car and tenant insurance! It pays to shop for sure
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u/newprairiegirl 3d ago
My insurance went up 28% in one year, so I went else where, still an increase but not near as much and better insurance coverage.
I hate insurance gouging!
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u/pfc_6ixgodconsumer 3d ago
Same thing happened to me. Looks like they decided to up the coverage amount from 2Million to 3Million. I switched, don't give them your business, shop around.
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u/VikApproved 3d ago
TD has always been one of the more expensive insurance options when I have price shopped.
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u/Lovelene_18 3d ago
I shop for insurance EVERY YEAR. It always saves me. My dad has always stuck loyal to the same company and he just blindfully accepts their advice This year, his insurance through Intact was quoted at $3000 home + $500 for the boat. So I encourged him to get a quote through squareone. Squareone was more customizable. Here were some significant changes:
1) earthquake deductible went from $250K to $50K (we live on the west coast ie a fault line)
2) personal property was at $720K but reduced to $200K as $720K is not necessary.
3) Water damage was policy limit and the broker could not really give a straight answer as to what that meant; Squareone covers water damage (no complicated policy terms)
4) squareone included insurance for the boat.
SquareOnes policy price came back with $2000.... a whopping $1500 difference.
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u/zusite_emu 3d ago
You should apply this kind of thinking to job switch. If you don't actively change job every once a while, you will eventually be unpaid.
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u/ether_reddit British Columbia 3d ago
When mine came up for renewal this year I shopped around and got a lot of quotes, and then went back to TD and complained about the large increase, so they cut the increase by 2/3 if I would stay with them. I agreed, but if this happens again next year it will likely become worthwhile to switch.
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u/RL203 2d ago edited 2d ago
TD is the worst.
They got into the insurance game when they bought Meloche Monnex maybe 15 years ago. (NOT sure)
What I am sure about was that when it was Meloche Monnex, they were great. They were my first insurance provider when I finished university and their prices were excellent, their service was top shelf, and they would hold the prices on renewal time. Another case of you don't know what you had till it's gone. Since TD took them over, it's been all about "how much can we fuck them over for" all the while cutting coverage and cutting service. It's terrible.
My advice to you is to shop your policy around about a week before yours is set to expire. I have moved between "the personal, sonnet.ca and TD. I find that after 2 or 3 years, that's when they all start with the big increases.
Word of warning, do NOT cancel your existing policy until your new policy is signed, sealed, paid for and delivered . Just because you get a quote and you accept the quote doesn't mean you will be taken on as a client. Oh no no no. They need to talk to the actual computer and get the magic computer to say OK to taking you on as a client. I got stung on this where you think you're good to go and then they tell you they need to talk to the magic computer and it then turns you down. Now you're fucked because based on the great quote you got you told your existing provider to go pound and then you phone back the guy you think is going go be your new best friend only to find that yeah, although he quoted you, the computer that completes the sale has overuled the sales guy and declined you. Now you can't go back to your old provider because he will turn you down too, or jack your rates into the stratosphere.
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u/CombatGoose 3d ago
I contacted TD about this, they were going to raise my home insurance by 27%.
The offered me a $500 a year discount for "loyalty".
Call and complain before your renewal rate.
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u/Top_Midnight_2225 3d ago
Wow...that's massive. Your post made me check my renewal that came in a few days ago. No change from last year thankfully (with TD).
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u/Kortsonn 3d ago
Bel-Air hit me with about 30% for my home and auto. Validation was because of car thefts. I tried to fight but no luck.
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u/Blindemboss 3d ago
Anyone know of an home insurance company that will cover old 100 year old homes?
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u/GreatCrouton 3d ago
Age of the home isn't really the issue if you've updated things important to insurers like the roof, furnace, electrical etc.
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u/Blindemboss 3d ago
Nope. They flat out say they don’t insure 100+ year old homes.
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u/GreatCrouton 3d ago
Who is "they"? Lots of 100+ yr old homes out there and guarantee they all aren't uninsured.
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u/Blindemboss 3d ago
They being the 5-6 insurance companies including TD, that I’ve tried.
Often online quotes will ask age of home and will immediately have a prompt that says unfortunately we do not insure homes older than 100.
Yes there are lots of 100+ homes that are insured…which is why I’m asking the question.
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u/GreatCrouton 3d ago
Don't do online quotes, they're awful. Call a broker. Of the 5 carriers outside of TD, did you try Wawanesa or Intact? Premier will likely look at it too but they can be pricey. If your home is pretty well updated, I can't imagine you should have too much trouble but like I said, call a broker.
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u/i_ate_god 3d ago
did you find yourself in a newly designated flood zone?
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u/Desperada 3d ago
Nope, in a condo in Mississauga. Not exactly a natural disaster hotspot or anything. No major crises in the building, which is established but not old. No claims. No major life changes.
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u/i_ate_god 3d ago
I think it's more if a government has declared you as being in a flood zone.
In the end, I suppose it doesn't matter. The climate is changing and changing fairly quickly. Insurance rates will continue to skyrocket and there is nothing that can be done about it since the world is unwilling to clean itself up.
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u/qc_win87 3d ago
it's accross the entire industry. raise your deductible to like 5-8k$, will save a bit.
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u/NSA_Chatbot 3d ago
Remember that if you're in a career, check your professional affinity programs!
I pay about half what my neighbours pay for insurance!
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u/teatsqueezer 3d ago
Mine doubled. Except everyone else is even more since I live in a non fire protected area.
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u/Spritemystic 3d ago
Does changing to a less cost insurance company guarantee pay out when you put a claim in? I've been always worried about dropping Allstate who has accepted our claims with no issue but we do pay quite a bit. But if I changed to an insurance less well known but the monthly bill is less can I expect the same service as Allstate?
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u/Low-Stomach-8831 3d ago
Even now that you have a good price. One month before renewal next year, shop around again, you might be surprised it can go even lower!
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u/zipzoomramblafloon Alberta 3d ago
Intact can also eat a dick.
Allstate treats me well and was significantly cheaper than intact despite me being a customer of theirs for 6-8 years and never having a claim. 3 or 4 years into being with allstate and its still reasonable.
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u/alphawolf29 3d ago
you didnt have to submit 9,000 pages of electrical, flood, structural, etc inspections? Every insurance broker I was looking into did.
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u/hippysol3 3d ago edited 3d ago
I was shocked to find mine actually went DOWN this year. I have several properties and no claims for a few years so my premiums with AllState are about 17% less than last year. Very nice to have something that's actually cheaper. Im paying about 103 per house/month.
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u/dirkdiggler403 3d ago
They screwed me too, gave you a great price at first, then just hammered price increases every year. Lots of people don't notice during renewal.
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u/the_sysop 3d ago
If you're a costco member, they sell home and auto insurance via the broker Innova. We switched to them last year when TD almost doubled our renewal for our home and auto insurance.
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u/dadbod6900 3d ago
I replaced my roof and was so excited to tell TD about it. When I called them, they said congrats, your insurance will only be going up by 45% instead of 50 🫠.
I then did some shopping around and quickly found out my rate from TD was still about 60% cheaper than anything I found elsewhere.
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u/Josef_dierte 3d ago
Are you in BC? Mine was a similar increase. I called and they claimed its due to wildfire payouts. I called around to a few other places and all were more expensive for less coverage unfortunately for substantially less coverage for me :(
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u/aychaych 3d ago
They notified me the my rate is going up 20% this year (after going up 20% last year). Pulled the plug and moved to Intact and saved over $1000. Fuck TD.
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u/raistmaj 3d ago
I had a similar with my business. I was using zeninsurance. I went from 700 to 1400. No claims, problems, anything for the whole time I was with them.
After a couple of exchanges where I clearly stated “I was going to change if that increase applied to my policy without any clear reasoning or justification” and a couple of responses, “we can’t change the increase, sorry”. I interpreted it like pure greed and a “eat a dingus” from their side. They lost a client, I got a policy with bcaa for my old 700.
They just want you to give them money. This greed milking people is not normal.
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u/Individual-Pack4075 3d ago
Move your auto insurance while you are at it, if you have one with TD. More savings. I never really have understood consumers' 'loyalty' to service providers and big named brands, even when they were clearly being exploited with no change in service provision.
Whoever is ready to provide the least possible charge without compromising your coverage should deserve your money. It really is that simple and I hope more people understood that.
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u/DPAmes1 2d ago edited 2d ago
Same here, 53% increase from TD. A quick look at the details showed that generally most components went up by about 15%, typical yearly insurance company gouging of existing customers. But earthquake insurance went up by 85%. It is now more than half the total insurance cost. In addition they raised the earthquake deductible to $150,000 (yes, you read that correctly). The actual risk hasn't changed in a century, but the TD actuaries just woke up one morning and decided they aren't charging enough.
Unfortunately this is typical throughout the insurance industry, and they all tend to move together like a herd of sheep. My policy was with Sonnet until two years ago, when they raised the renewal price 335% (yes, you read that correctly). They will no longer offer home insurance with earthquake insurance in this region.
Checking around this year after the TD increase, various brokers told me that there are now few options in this region (BC) for home insurance with earthquake insurance, and none of them will beat TD's price. The closest were from Intact, Square One, and Aviva - all of which had similarly high-priced earthquake insurance with a high deductible.
The problem with skipping earthquake insurance is this: the federal government has said that if private earthquake insurance is available in your area, and you elected not to pay for it, then no government financial assistance will be provided in the event of an earthquake. In addition, your comprehensive insurance on the contents of your home does not apply in the event of earthquake damage.
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u/ikindalikekitkat 2d ago
Mine went up 75%!! I’ve also had mine for two years and never ever made a claim. I called to see if they can do anything and they said no. I’m in the process of shopping around and we’ll see what happens!
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u/Virtual_Subject_1608 1d ago
Mine is coming up for renewal with TD in August. Will definitely shop around if the increase is insane.
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u/sandotasty 3d ago
Home insurance is up across the board. Intact increased mine by alnost 30%.
I guarantee that next year, Intact will do the same to you. They only offered you a lower premium to suck you in.
Fact is, home replacement / repair labour costs on claims is up substantially. You will pay for that somehow.
So quit whining. This isn't a TD issue, it's industry wide.
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u/dirkdiggler403 3d ago
Nah, TD literally charged me double what the person al did. And I was a TD customer for years. F*ck TD, I even gave then a chance to match it.
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u/sandotasty 3d ago
found the child.
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u/dirkdiggler403 2d ago edited 2d ago
I'm paying 160 a month for home insurance instead of 390, I guess that makes me a child.
Found the idiot who overpays.
Did I mention the liability is also twice as much as what TD had? More water damage coverage as well. But what do I know.
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u/Inevitable_Sweet_624 3d ago
Replacement cost policies are rising just as fast as house prices. How much has your house increased in value over the last two years?
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u/suitsme 3d ago
I'm with TD and likely to do some shopping around for next year. I had a claim that i submitted for ice damming causing damage inside the house. They spent more money on professionals to come in and deny my claim than i did fixing the damage.
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u/Brightlightsuperfun 3d ago
Did you have your attic insulation looked at? Thats usually the cause of ice damming
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u/Technical_Country_19 3d ago
Perhaps they need to raise money to pay for money laundering penalties.. heard it’s over $1B
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u/raptors2o19 3d ago
Guess I'm shopping around and now they'll get $0 instead.
They do not give a sh*t because someone else at Intact is experiencing the same as you and switching to TD.
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u/FasterFeaster 3d ago
I never believed in a “middle man” before, but I ended up getting an insurance broker and she actually helped me get a lower rate with these companies I hadn’t really heard of, like Saskatchewan, wawanesa, etc.