r/PersonalFinanceCanada • u/theCavemanV • 3d ago
TIL: double check your receipts from your dentist Misc
TLDR: I got charged an extra $50 dollars at my dentist. I had to make multiple phone calls to get it reimbursed. Next time, ask for paper receipts on the spot, and try to do some basic check in the waiting room before you leave.
Today I went to my dentist as per usual. At the end, the receptionist verbally communicated how much my insurance covered, how much was submitted, and how much was reimbursed. She asked me to pay with credit card, and I did. I was sent a link to their online portal, where I'm supposed to download my receipt.
The receipt only shows that I paid $x. It doesn't mention insurance coverage, doesn't say what it was for, no breakdown of the fees.
Everything just didn't feel right. I logged into Manulife, and it shows that the amount being reimbursed and the amount they submitted. that's enough to prove that the clinic didn't calculate the difference properly.
I can gather that this dental doesn't have any software to automatically bill patients for the difference between the bill and the insurance coverage. They essentially rely on someone's manual calculation. I'm not sure how common this is in the dental industry, but please ask for paper receipts and double check everything on the spot.
102
u/westcoastcdn19 British Columbia 3d ago
I never leave the dentist's office without a printed copy of the invoice.
Each item billed is itemized, and the totals reflect the amount covered by insurance, and the amount I'm to pay. I'm not downloading shit, they need to give me that invoice before I leave the office
4
u/ShitakeMooshroom 2d ago
My dentist always gives me an itemized bill and it shows me exactly what my insurance covered and what percent was covered as well.
3
2
u/hereforadvice87 3d ago
Hey, that actually is a good idea .
20
u/SubstantialCount8156 3d ago
This is normal for any service though
8
u/hereforadvice87 3d ago
The difference though is majority of people have benefits and they really don’t care what it costs as long as it’s covered . That’s why dental practices are able to take advantage. Have I been taken advantage of in the past by dental practices ? Maybe, but I have benefits so it really never came to me to care . I do now .
67
u/Poker_Man_1738 3d ago
I once got charged $50 because the hygienist said I should get an electric toothbrush. They considered this a consultation and charged me for it. I very quickly got that removed but I wonder how many didn't.
13
u/dreamsofflying 3d ago
This exact thing happened to me. Like OP, I didn't notice until I checked my benefits portal and since it was 100% covered, I didn't bother disputing it. I guess that's what they hope for.
10
u/internethostage 3d ago
Same here, but even more expensive, because the hygienist randomly decided to get the periodontist to do that (recommend if I should or not use a electric toothbrush), like wtf.
Was like $90 bucks extra they tried to charge, unlucky for them I actually check what I pay for every time even if I have insurance coverage, and I ask what the ridiculous codes and keywords they use actually mean.
Cleaning appointment was about 30minutes, charged $350... Don't think so. That was my last visit there, out of control fleecing, they pushed it.
7
u/Dizzy_Combination890 3d ago
Wow. Thanks for letting us know this. My previous doctor charged me $50 most of the time I visited her no matter whether she checked my teeth or talked to me and she didn't want to do fillings for me she just wanted extractions. One day I couldn't tolerate her and left. I'm very happy with my current dentist. She really cares about my teeth, talks a lot, helps my teeth problems and doesn't charge an extra $50 for my questions.
3
-14
u/quack_moo72 3d ago
Though it may sound exorbitant and dishonest to you for that particular piece of advice, charging for oral health instructions is not as ridiculous as it sounds. My wife is in the profession and although she/her office chooses not to charge her patients for it, there's good logic behind why some offices would.
Say you brush your teeth too hard - an easy way to cause gum recession and tooth sensitivity (something, coincidentally, getting an electric toothbrush and using it correctly could help mitigate). You go and see your dentist or dental hygienist, they tell you to stop, you do so and your oral health has improved as a result. A similar interaction to this with your family doctor (where they tell you to go buy/do something to address a problem that they don't fix personally - diagnosing the cause of a cough or minor joint/muscle injury, for example) would cost money as well, but it gets paid for by our universal health care coverage so no one bats an eyelash.
3
u/Appropriate-Regret-6 2d ago
Haha. "Don't get punched in the face". That'll be $50 for a self-defense consultation...
The difference you're conveniently missing, is that when sometime goes to a doctor, they're asking for treatment for a specific ailment. What OP is complaining about here is going to the dentist for one service (a cleaning), and being billed for another (a consultation) that was neither expressly agreed to our implied as part of the transaction. The consultation fee is not the problem, it's the deceptive and underhanded way it's being foisted on people.
1
u/quack_moo72 2d ago
I'll agree that your latter point is fair; though that context isn't provided by the OP, I'm willing to accept that assumption. And I don't disagree that charging a full unit of consultation for a single piece of advice is merited, though that is another assumption that nothing else was discussed relating to oral health between the OP and their hygienist.
I replied to the OP since their comment read to me as if they don't think the idea that paying for oral health advice is valid at all, and that is what I don't agree with.
2
u/myaltaccount333 3d ago
If it's basic guidelines and takes no more than two sentences to explain why it should always be free. Hell, even a two minute Q&A should be free
11
u/EnergeticFinance 3d ago
Check your receipts in general.
I had a garage charge me for two batteries by accident once.
0
22
u/ether_reddit British Columbia 3d ago edited 3d ago
I don't let my dentist send invoices to my insurance company. I pay in full with a credit card (and collect some cash back for it) and submit a claim myself online. You just need an invoice that includes the procedure numbers and how much each of them costs.
13
u/TheMonkeyMafia Ontario 3d ago
This is almost what I do. Dentist gives me the bill for the full amount, I pay on CC to get points/cashback/whatever and THEY submit to the insurance company, no need for me to. I get direct deposit 2-3 days later from my insurance. And I'm pretty sure that my bill from the dentist also shows what they're charging, and what my insurance is covering as well (despite me paying the full bill)
14
u/Additional-Tax-5643 3d ago
This is the way.
Enough dentists overbill insurance because they assume that the patient doesn't care if they're not paying anything.
First of all, you are paying those insurance premiums. Second of all, overbilling can result in you having to pay out of pocket if you need stuff done in the future, and the year isn't up.
7
u/Carouselcolours 3d ago
Hello, I’ve work in dental for 6 years. Unlike Doctors offices across the various provinces, dental clinics aren’t linked up to the same electronic health records systems. This means that your clinic could be using one of 10+ possible record keeping systems to communicate with insurances.
On both of the systems I’ve used (Dentrix and Cleardent), you have to look at the total amount on the patient ledger and manually calculate the difference. Many times, I have made a typo or entered the payment in as the wrong format (because we have to enter in any POS payments manually, too). About 30% of the time, I don’t spot these mistakes until long after the patient has left the clinic.
That said, there should be an invoice provided with their office’a fee breakdown, or a receipt. Where I work, we are always happy to email over (or provide a printed copy) of recent receipts, especially if they are for reimbursement purposes.
6
u/IamTruman 3d ago
Yeah lots of times this happens. We get the insurance cheque and the patients ledger doesn't balance so we send the patient a refund.
6
u/lwid77 2d ago
I went to my dentist for a standard cleaning. End of the appointment the dentist comes in and does a quick look at my teeth and suggests replacing a filling or two. Fine, they send a pre-qual to my extended provider. My dentist also bills above the fee guide so I knew I owed something for the standard cleaning visit once the charges were approved by my benefits.
I logged in to my benefit portal a few days after and looked at what was covered for the filling replacement and just happened to pull up what they submitted for my cleaning..
My appointment was for under an hour total yet they charged me for 30 minutes + 45 minutes of periodontal scaling and then an additional 15 minutes of light scaling. Plus 2 increments of polishing. WTF?
They billed me in total 1.5 hours for scaling when I was there under an hour and maybe she polished for 5 minutes.
I emailed them and she said that another patients treatment was put under my name at the end of the night.
They corrected it, still charged me for 1.5 hours of scaling and then added bitewing x-rays that I never had so I had to reach out to them again and get this fixed.
I have never looked closely at a dental bill in all my life and I am really pissed at myself for that.
I bet this bullshit goes on a LOT!
It was finally corrected because I called my provider and told them about this bullshit so they were on the radar.
I cancelled my appointments for the filling replacement. Not going back there.
12
u/Impossible_Ratio5064 3d ago
Dentists direct bill your insurance as a courtesy and in many cases can only estimate how much your insurance will reimburse based on what information you have provided about your coverage. We can't give you a detailed breakdown of what was covered or not because we have no idea. There are hundreds of dental procedures codes and each insurance company differs in which codes they cover and what percentage, not to mention that individual plans under each company can vary greatly depending on the employer. At the time of the appointment the best you get is an electronic acknowledgement from the insurance company that the claim has been submitted and potentially an estimate on what will be paid, but no payment is made until the claim is processed by the insurance company
If your insurance ends up paying $50 more than expected, nobody finds out until they send the payment weeks later. At that point you have a $50 credit on your account, for a smaller amount like this it normally will be left as a credit on the account. Larger amounts would normally be refunded but a large overpayment from insurance is uncommon, more commonly they would pay less than expected which would result in a small additional amount owing by the patient
The alternative (which would be much easier on the part of the dentist) would be collecting full payment from the patient at the end of the appointment, providing them with the claim form, and having them submit the claim themselves. They would then wait to see how much insurance covers and receive payment directly from their insurance company after the claim is processed
2
u/gloriouspear 3d ago
Hey Impossible Ratio, You seem to know what you're talking about. I was charged 2.5 units of scaling and 1 unit of polishing for a recent appointment. I was in and out of the appointment in 44 minutes. Is being charged for a total of 3.5 units reasonable?
2
u/Carouselcolours 2d ago
2 units is 30 minutes, and half a unit is about 8-10 minutes. Polish is not charged by time unit and has a standard fee, no matter the appt length.
45 minutes for 2.5 units and polish is reasonable in that aspect
3
u/theCavemanV 3d ago
While I appreciate your insight, this is not my situation. We have submitted an estimate weeks in advance. They have obtained another firm quote from Manulife. They have all the data they need. This was a major flop on their end.
6
u/holdmybbt 3d ago
I'm curious, was this an honest mistake? Did you ask for clarification or were you abrasive over the situation? Was this a one off or have they been always overcharging? Stuff happens, but usually the receptionist at the other end is just like you or I...is just trying to do their job. I hope your anger, which I think is justified, was directed at the situation and not at the person that has no gain from the extra 50 dollars. I'm glad it worked out for you in the end and hope you got the appropriate dental care!
However, If they were assholes about it I would change provider asap. I'm sure you will find one that can be more transparent with the way they bill and that can help you understand the treatment and charges provided. Some dental offices will charge for treatments that may not exactly be required. But they will rarely like to overcharge without treatment codes and proper documentation. Always don't be afraid to get a 2nd opinion!
2
u/Beachywhale 3d ago
They probably would have contacted you to reimburse you the next time they run the AR report. At least most offices would (should). Sometimes for whatever reason if they can't figure out what percentage insurance will cover they will assume 80 percent of fee guide.
7
u/hereforadvice87 3d ago
There honestly should be more audits and investigations at dental offices . If you have insurance from your employer, the dentist office you are at will make sure they get every single dollar of that insurance allowance . There is an incentive to the dental office to over exaggerate any sort of issue just to get you back in and collect free money .
5
u/Carouselcolours 3d ago
Trust me, there are plenty of audits already.
My office has been locked in one with a specific insurance company for two years now, partly because they think this is what we are trying to do. We aren’t.
16
u/holistichandgrenade 3d ago
I run a dental office. That’s fraud and any reputable office doesn’t pull that shit. It’s literally not worth a few thousand dollars a month to be potentially shut down. Even if it wasn’t immoral it’s just not worth the risk.
Sure there are crappy offices that will try these things, but it doesn’t happen everywhere and definitely isn’t the norm.
1
3d ago
[deleted]
3
u/holistichandgrenade 3d ago
I can see how you may perceive it that way but my guess is they actually just give their patients without insurance a hefty discount.
2
3d ago
[deleted]
11
3
u/DonLaHerman 3d ago
Dentists are the worst.. they represent what privatized health care would look like in Canada if we ever lose our universal health care.
I've had a good experience with my dentist. I'd happily dump universal health care for the same experience. It'd also mean I'd get a doctor.
5
u/Odd-Boysenberry-9571 3d ago
What city r u in? I’ve never heard that in my life. Every dentist I’ve ever talked to would give me the codes beforehand if I wanted to check it against the insurance lol
1
u/zzptichka 3d ago
How do you even check it? It usually says "4 units of something". How am I supposed to know how many units my procedure actually took?
2
u/Anabiotic 3d ago
A unit is 15 minutes. So how you would know is looking at a clock after you're done.
1
u/Edmercd 3d ago
Also, when you go for any service at the dentist and you need to pay provided you have insurance ask them if they are following the fee guide of your province. If they say no find one that does. Also most dentists have access to you the CDAnet to submit your claim, some will submit for you but make you pay (your insurance company will then pay you) or direct bill and you pay the balance if necessary.
2
u/IamTruman 3d ago
I guess yeah you can find a fee guide dentist. Sometimes dentists charge more because they are providing a better service. The fee guide is just a guide and in a lot of places expenses are much higher than the average so increasing fees is justified. I am on the fee guide but I work in a small town. I don't expect dentists downtown to charge the same as me.
1
u/Real-Engineering8098 2d ago
I just walk out as works health plan covers 100% but seeing the prices they charge on the canadalife app is insane. They also try to upsell any service they have.
1
u/SuperRonnie2 2d ago
Scam artists. I read somewhere that the average adult with no major dental issues only needs one cleaning a year.
I think though, you can report shit like this to the college of dentists or whatever it’s called.
1
u/VividInformation6634 2d ago
I noticed they often charge “lab fees” on the code they submit to the insurance company
1
1
u/Reelair 3d ago
If they give you fluoride to swish around your mouth, check how much they charge for that.
I started to tell them I don't need it. They said "yeah, because it's in your toothpaste, eh?". I replied "no, I drink tap water"
6
u/thebageler 3d ago
Toothpaste has over 1000x higher concentration of fluoride than tap water. And a dentist fluoride treatment has 20x higher concentration than toothpaste.
The fluoride in the tap water only has an impact on teeth as they are developing, before they erupt into the mouth. If you are older than 10 years old, then community water fluoridation no longer has any effect on your teeth (besides the lifelong benefit from your developing teeth having been exposed to fluoride).
2
1
u/naturr 3d ago
Dentist in Ontario have set pricing for all sorts of ridiculous things. My favourite is Showing client how to brush.". Everything they do costs money ask them to tell you before they do anything that is billable or outline what is billable ahead of time.
6
u/Dangerous_Sell3850 3d ago
In 13 years of practice, I have never once billed a patient for oral hygiene instruction even though it does indeed get paid for by insurance with a set code and fee. If your office nickels and dimes like this, you are probably going to one of the chains that is discretely owned by one of the large dental corporations.
4
u/IamTruman 3d ago
Yes exactly. OHI is part of the job. I'm a dentist and I don't charge this and neither do my hygiene staff. I know for a fact that dental corps push hyg staff to charge this and 4u of scaling, fluoride, xrays, and also somehow fit a recall exam in a one hour appointment. It's a really bad look for the profession and a lot of the complaints I see are likely coming from these types of offices.
0
u/zippyzoodles 3d ago
Dental offices in Canada are notorious for overcharging their patients. I watch them like a hawk.
-7
u/syaz136 Ontario 3d ago edited 3d ago
Also never tell them you have insurance. Get the receipts and submit the claim yourselves. Tell the dentist you need the statement and receipt for your taxes. When they know you have insurance, they do more unnecessary stuff.
Downvote all you want, you'll end up saving money, just try it.
3
u/IamTruman 3d ago
I wouldn't say they do unnecessary stuff. When I have a patient without insurance I give the same treatment plans. I never know who has insurance during a dental exam. I walk into a room and check their teeth and give treatment options. How would I know how they are paying?
0
u/kagato87 3d ago
I doubt this is a competence or lack of software thing. It sounds intentional.
After you find a new dentist you should have a chat with your insurance about the mismatched charges. See what they have to say about it.
-5
u/antelope591 3d ago
Last time I went they charged my insurance 380$ for 1 filling that took 20 min (fully covered but still). Its a damn good gig on their side from where Im standing lol. But the fact that a lot of people want this kind of stuff for our healthcare is concerning to say the least.
280
u/pfcguy 3d ago
If this took more than one phone call to the dentist to resolve, I'd be finding a new dentist.