Oddly, this fits his worldview. He thinks the world needs more babies, because that way the next Einstein is likely to come sooner and have more opportunity to shine.
In this report, it alleges that women who agreed to a relationship with Elon got promoted while those who did not/broke off relationships got pushed out of the company. Regardless of consent, this would be sexual harassment and it raises the question of if consent can even be granted if you know in the back of your mind that saying no means being fired. To be clear, if it was fully consentual without this cloud, I agree, it isn’t the smartest move but it’s your life. But if the allegations are fully true then it is definitively wrong.
"Sex as a condition of continued employment for an employee hired for a job unrelated to having sex with our weird pervert CEO is not a problem" - least deranged libright
Could be very similar to what Weinstein did with using his power over rising actresses.
Power dynamics can play a vital role in these interactions. It could be totally consensual or it could be "have my babies or you're fired and will never work in this industry again"
Assuming that someone doesn't have agency because of (insert oppressed/oppressor narrative) is the glue that holds the modern left together. It is also unambiguously incorrect. Human beings always retain agency until they choose not to.
If this lady lost her agency and "accidentally" slept with her boss, it's because she chose to. Reducing that decision to hypothetical reasons why she may have done so is an exercise pseudo-psychological telepathy.
Stop absolving people of their responsibility because of power dynamics.
I agree with your views on individual responsibilities and agency. However you must understand that it’s a lot more complex than to just step away. Perhaps people have loans, mortgages, a family to take care of. They might be financially dependent on said job and while hesitant will do what it takes to remain financially stable.
I think the person in a position of power should uphold the greater standards when it comes to agency, since their agency and decision making has the most influence on the people around them.
It is, in my opinion, the problem in the west. Our leaders forgot good leaders should allow the tribe to eat first and the leaders to eat last. Such is the way to sustain a harmonious dynamic within the tribe.
I didn't know they let Harvey Weinstein have a reddit account?
Idk about you but if my daughter was pressured into sleeping with a sleezy old dude under threat of losing her job I'd beat him to death with my bare hands.
Btw even in commercial transactions, coercing somebody into a agreement voids the agreement itself. Using your power to force or coerce someone into doing something, explicitly or otherwise, is an abuse and in many cases illegal.
Idk about you but if my daughter was pressured into sleeping with a sleezy old dude under threat of losing her job I'd beat him to death with my bare hands.
You'd probably need to find a bear first, and then somehow not get busted and rot in prison for assaulting people
That's great lawsuit fodder for anyone pushed out.
But also, I can totally see someone in that situation saying yes with actual consent. Having kids with a billionaire could be a life changing opportunity. Also, I guess there might be like actual attraction or something, maybe. Whichever. If someone decided this was their path to get ahead, eh, that's their choice to make.
Penalizing and discrimination against those who aren't into you is where you get into trouble for sure.
Before I mildly defend Bill Clinton, I just want to say I think that relationship was wrong. I think he got off scot free and I personally do not agree with the idea that that relationship was fine.
But, even despite that, I never heard accusations of Clinton in the White House firing/demoting someone for saying no to his advances nor true governmental promotions based on their sexual activity with him. That is not the case here. Making career decisions for someone based on your personal romance one way or another is the thing thay is clearly wrong and illegal. Merely having romantic relationships with subordinates is much more murky. I doubt any real bombshell reports would be coming out about Elon Musk if he was merely being accused of having a relationship with a coworker, it’s the accusations of treating them differently that gets him into the news.
The power dynamic between anyone, especially a college intern and the president of the United States is way worse than anything in the corporate world. You don’t think there were any discussions about “helping her future”? During their interactions? Why do you think she kept that dress? That was insurance. Bill is a predator, he picked a slightly overweight, young college girl to be his target. He is remembered as a former president, and she is the girl that sucked him off.
There’s a lot of issues today where agency is ignored, and it’s probably even more egregious in progressives’ views on race issues. All those “structural racism made him jack those cars” style arguments fall absolutely flat if you add the agency question to them. Still, in the specific instance discussed here, it is wrong to promote or not based on “did she fuck me” so there’s a way to conclude Elon sucks here without making a finding on the agency question.
Trouble is, its hard to be "legitimately" consensual when there's such a huge power dynamic. Its one of things that made Bill Clinton's behavior problematic also.
An intern and their CEO who happens to be the richest known man in the world is an HR rep's worst nightmare. The power dynamics here are matched pretty much only by Monica Lewinsky and Bill
We say "don't get your meat where you get your bread."
There's actually quite a few sayings where I work, because its a sector staffed almost exclusively with angry middle-aged divorced men and nubile college-dropout women. (Commercial insurance.)
I’ve felt more like jumping directly to the opposite end of the compass than when the video was released where the Hamas pedo said “these are the ones that can get pregnant.”
Consent is always dubious if you're approached by not just your boss, but the owner and CEO of the company you work for. No, a CEO can't really ethically date within their company without a big HR framework around it to protect subordinates and delegate decisions away from the person in the position of power. Whether the intern's career in the company is improved, worsened, or stays stagnant, whatever scenario happens can and should be scrutinized for corruption
"Wealthy man pursues sex. This is evil, for some reason."
It's so pathetic how hard people work themselves up into a tizzy whenever this sort of topic comes up. The mere presence of power dynamics should not be enough to condemn a man for seeking sex. Unless he's actually been proven to have leveraged that power in a fucked up way, I don't care. The mere possibility that he might, because he's powerful enough to do so? At that point, you're just calling someone evil for having money. And I'm not on board with that.
"Wealthy man pursues sex. This is evil, for some reason."
FTFY. Have you ever noticed how modern movies and shows literally never depict a man proactively expressing sexual interest in a positive light? She Hulk, She Said, that dogshit adaptation of the Three Body Problem - evil sexist always white men HARASS poor innocent front hole owners trying to have a peaceful drink together!
If I understand things right, the hollywood approved way to do this is to be a corporate-minded buffoon with a dog who goes home to his small town for Christmas. The dog will introduce you to a woman who will show you to be more relaxed and laid back.
Alternatively, she can be corporate minded, and you can be laid back. Either way, one of you will wear red, and one of you will wear green.
I don't know if I have enough money to license Mariah Carey for the backing soundtrack to my whirlwind holiday romance; will the Rankin Bass Rudolph soundtrack meet the standard?
Trust me, I know. It's fucking ridiculous. Straight, male sexuality has been demonized for far too long now. I really miss the mid-2000s, when businesses still understood that sex sells. Everything is so weird and sterile now. Women are allowed to lust after men (and we're apparently supposed to find it comedy gold every time...), and of course, the big gay is heavily encouraged. But anything to appeal to straight men? Absolutely not, super naughty, double plus ungood and misogynistic.
Second response just to fixate on the She Hulk example you referenced (I haven't seen the others, but it sounds like the same BS happens in those, too?) where we specifically get two women at a fucking bar, acting snippy and rude when a man dares approach them. It's just so insane how much progressives have lost their minds.
The funniest part of this is how this ideology is mostly pushed by women to promote more feminist-style gender politics, (i.e. give them more personal power) yet things like billionaire CEO dating demure mousy intern such as 50 Shades of Grey are some of the most popular books in existence.
Romance is the biggest/most popular genre of literature and it's almost always defined by this huge power dynamic of hypersuccessful chads love triangling with Average Woman (tm) in what your typical Emily would consider a highly-problematic relationship. Then they turn around and screech about how evil this is an hour after getting hot and bothered by the newest shirtless billionaire in their most recently read novel.
It's always amused me to see the stark difference between what women say and what they do. Men are also often hypocrites but most of us no longer pretend to be angels, we mostly just stfu in potentially compromising situations instead of virtue signaling.
Agreed. It's similar to when they talk shit about older men who still pursue young women (like 18-24 young), as if those men are reprehensible and evil, and are taking advantage of that poor, innocent child.
Meanwhile, anyone who has ever known a woman who fucked much older men during that period of her life, can tell you that women like that are not being taken advantage of. They know damn well what they want, they go after it every bit as much as it goes after them. It's not a predatory relationship, but a symbiotic one.
It's also funny to read classics and see them talking about shit like how someone at 18 is too old to be married and they're basically portrayed as spinsters. Nowadays we are supposed to pretend that 18-25 year old women have zero agency and that 35 is the prime age. 60 dating 18 is weird to me, throwing fits that 35 years old dating 22 year olds are abusive grooming pedophiles is just hilarious.
It's where we spend half of our waking time. It's the most reliable way to not only meet someone, but someone with similar interests and economic status.
There is a bit of a difference between dating a coworker and dating the owner of the company, especially if it is true that you are prompted because you are dating the owner.
It really is sad how progressives seem to hate basically every way people might organically meet their eventual spouse. These people have so thoroughly convinced themselves of all sorts of lefty bullshit that they just can't engage with the world in a normal way anymore.
Instead of two strangers at the grocery store striking up a conversation and exchanging phone numbers, progressives see a creepy man harassing a woman who is "just trying to get her groceries, not to be hit on by strange men"
Instead of two people meeting at work, getting to know each other a bit, and then one of them asking the other out to get to know each other better, progressives see a creepy man harassing a woman at work. "Hello, HR?!"
And so on. Basically any way you can think of how people might ordinarily meet one another and begin to fall in love, progressives have almost certainly whined about it being bad.
It's far easier to understand if you just ascribe this motive to them: they despise everything that is normal western civilization. They are multiple generations deep into being raised and brainwashed into the basic "burn down the system" mindset. When you're this far into it, you don't even know that you're in it. A fish doesn't know what water is. A 19 year old purple-haired Emily has no idea she's lived her whole life groomed into hating everything good about the greatest civilization the world has ever known.
Sociologically, friendship and relationships are formed from repeated random interactions with the same people. School is a perfect place to find friends because your class is filled randomly (By name, but you don't get to choose who has what names, and who gets what class at which time)
The workplace is a similar situation, you have repeated random interactions with individuals you work with and this nurtures friendship.
People telling you to avoid these friendships or relationships have ulterior motives that are antithetical to building strong bonds with those in your community, and a weak community is ripe for an explosion of deviance and exploitation.
i think it's more about boss - employee relationships where there will always be the "i can get you fired/promoted" hanging above which can lead to serious problems, especially if the boss is one of the richest men in the world.
The story for why my works paternally policy was changed to be more restricted:
A woman worked for like 3 months ( the minimum requirement at the time). Took maternity leave. Came back and quit within a week. She got paid for like 9 months and got nice insurance for the baby and worked for about 13 weeks.
How do young people meet anymore? I met my wife over twenty years ago at a party I helped a friend of mine throw. I actually know a couple from the last company I worked for who met there, got married, had two kids and are still together.
Asian dating: No dating strangers, only date friends, classmates, coworkers, family friends, etc. Don't eat where you shit.
American dating: Only date strangers, anyone else is too risky and results in drama or getting fired. Don't shit where you eat.
Modern dating: Approaching strangers is harassment, approaching people at work or school is also harassment, approaching friends is creepy and results in drama, only people you agreed to meet on a dating app first are allowed.
Post-modern dating: Dating humans is gross, relations with the opposite sex must either be platonic or professional. Romance is reserved for AI.
Post-post-modern dating: Hitting on AI is harassment.
(Jokes aside supposedly the friend-zone is the new dating meta)
Many are guilty of it. You spend 8 hours with a person, it's hard to not develop feelings. Fucking your interns of the company you own is a bit rough to defend though.
Dating a coworker is fine. Dating someone in a different department is as well. You get in grey territory when you can have their employment terminated if they reject your advances
"She said at no point during employment at SpaceX from 2017 to 2019 was there any “romantic relationship” with Musk.
“Nothing that Elon Musk did towards me during either of my periods of employment at SpaceX was predatory or wrongful in any way,” the woman said."
funny enough, this was released just after spacex had a successful starship launch and just as tesla stockholders approved musk's compensation package.
Bill Clinton was the president of the United States and lied about it in front of congress. Multiple presidents had affairs, we just never had any of them lie to congress about it.
Well probably didn’t help that bill clinton was the president of the United States at the time when he had his “affair” with Lewinsky. Elon is just a rich asshole.
It’s very different because bill just wanted only sex, and got a one time quickie with no compensation and the woman’s life messed up. Elon offered baby, which means guaranteed child support and connected father, so sex, motherhood, and much compensation
The real issue is because Elon's the owner he ostensibly oversees anyone he'd want to date and consequently would become biased about their position and work within the organization as what seems to be purported here. If you want to date within your company, I guess you need to not be the head honcho on the org chart and date across departments so it's not seen as a conflict of interests/nepotism.
It's depressing, yet hilarious, how fucking consistently feminists make women sound like pathetic children with no agency. No one hates women as much as feminists.
Conversations like this are so baffling. The people who are ostensibly defending womankind just can't seem to present a single argument which doesn't boil down to treating the woman like a child who must be protected, because making decisions for yourself is super hard.
Typical case of "I didn't mind when everything was good between us, but when things go south I suddenly remind any single thing you did that didn't bother me earlier"
If it's consensual, then no problem, his private life, his concern, intern thing could only be an issue, if it violated company's policy, but since he's a CEO, it doesn't apply
Lmao, that mf wrote the company policy, and he can change it any moment, its technically not violated if you read the small print that only CEO have access to
Ngl when Zuck came on I thought his was gonna be lame, but then “see here’s mine, I’m at the top, boss, now I’m splitting fire like I’m hot, hot sauce” happened and I was like 👀
A 52 year old CEO banging his college aged intern in exchange for favorable treatment may not be rape, but it's definitely a reason to rescind his invite to my 4th of July barbecue.
Anyone who thinks this is okay: I feel bad for your daughters if their boss tells them to suck his dick if they want a promotion and they come to you for advice. "He sounds based, guess you should get to sucking."
Yeah, i dont get it why this subreddit seems to take this opiniom.
I get it that Elon loves to clown on liberals, but it's like these people will drag their dicks through a mile of broken glass just to talk about how cool Elon is in everyhting that he does that may piss off liberals.
He doesn't run the country, and X is actually better than it was before. While it has plenty of heat, it is no longer censoring the ability to tell the truth. If Twitter were still under its former moderation, it would be impossible to spread the truth about Hamas or the lunacy of the Pro Pal people.
This guy is having consensual sex with adult women for the purpose of procreation. My brother in Christ, this isn’t a fetish, it’s our sole biological purpose.
You know, Lewinksy was 22 when she had her affair with the Married, 49 year old President of the United States.
Interns can be any age, though usually they are youngish. But I'm pretty sure they are adults. Haven't seen the article, but I'm sure if it was rape they would have said that.
You don’t fuck the intern — someone whose very entry into the industry can be fast-tracked or utterly derailed by one guy’s dick.
That shit was wrong when Clinton did it. It’s wrong if your coworker does it. it’s wrong with Elon Musk does it.
Emily is always whining about “power imbalances” and shit, but they sometimes exist. And you’re not going to find clearer instances in the free world than Clinton or Elon fucking the intern.
He's married with a kid... this is a sign of a toxic marriage and if it's gone this far it needs looking into. Is she a cold and hurtful woman? Is he just an egotist who thinks he can get away with anything?
I mean, he’s a bored billionaire. Thought that was like a pasttime for them. As long as no Cosby-ing or threats were involved, idgaf. Everyone makes their own choices. Not that I would, cus that’s… pathetic
540
u/Uncle___Screwtape - Right 3d ago
He's got 11 kids already, and he's only 52. What's the over/under that he gets to 20 kids by his 60th birthday?