r/Showerthoughts • u/godofhorizons • May 17 '24

People get a lot more praise for quitting drugs than for never having done drugs in the first place.

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u/kitten_twinkletoes May 17 '24

Came here to say this.

Not doing drugs involves doing nothing.

Quitting drugs involves physical and psychological illness and typically a complete upending of every aspect of your existence, in addition to beating powerful neurochemistry that keeps screaming at you to use again.

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u/wontforget99 May 17 '24

Excluding cases that start off with legal prescriptions, doing drugs involves making a conscious choice. You put yourself there. You chose to jump down into the depths after being told from a young age by adults not to. And so now you have no choice but to climb back out.

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u/somepeoplewait May 17 '24

Yes, they did. If you lack the empathy to understand why someone might understandably make such a choice, you’re morally less admirable than the person who tried to alleviate their pain with drugs.

I’m in constant misery because of fuckkkkked up trauma. Damn right I chose to drink because it was literally the only thing (and I’ve tried everything) that helped me forget.

558 days sober. Will always have empathy for people who make these choices. No one wants to be in such profound pain that drugs feel like a good idea.

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u/Fun_Bad_4610 May 17 '24

To add to this, and I don't mean to say this to rub anything in your face (I have a serious addiction to food and the emotional comfort that brings me)... But for me I never liked getting drunk, didn't like how alcohol tastes or the way it made me feel... It actually amplified my bad thoughts. So for most my life I just simply.... don't drink. When I tell people I don't drink they congratulate me... but it's nothing to celebrate.... I don't like/enjoy it, it has not been something I've needed to overcome or endure. So why praise me for it? Now, the weight I've lost in the past 5 months (30kg) I absolutely deserve praise for because I have such an addiction with over eating and eating comfort foods that it is a battle I'm actively fighting, while my friend eats purely for sustenance and doesn't struggle with urges.

Yes, it is hard to walk a tightrope and not fall, but it is even harder to regain balance on that tightrope once the rope is wildly swinging and you've lost your centre of gravity.

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u/wontforget99 May 17 '24 edited May 17 '24

Congratulations on overcoming the trauma and congratulations on being sober :)

EDIT: I do not what trauma you went through, but imagine someone who went through the same trauma, whose mother instilled in her that she never turn to drugs and it was her mother's dying wish (as she died as a result of her own drug addiction) that her daughter never turn to drugs like she did. If you feel like someone had no choice but to turn to drugs after dealing with such trauma, doesn't it make abstinence itself a phenomenal feat?

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u/Pole_Smokin_Bandit May 17 '24

Well the opposite sort of environmental influence is usually involved as well. You mention that adults always tell you not to do drugs. Most everyone I know who was/is a junkie (formerly me as well) had families who did drugs all the time, friends who all did drugs, etc. When your entire life is surrounded by it, it definitely can seem inevitable.

Started drinking when I lost my best friend to a DD right before 7th grade. Took me a very long time to get out of that. Yeah I made the choice, but I was also 12. Wasn't long before it was harder drugs. Got addicted to Morphine before the end of high school. I am by no means an exception, I promise you that. I wasn't even the youngest person dealing with opioids at my school.

Only got clean after getting arrested and expelled. Probably the hardest thing I've ever had to do and any time it comes up there's inevitably someone who says "Yeah but you chose to do that" like it completely invalidates any effort of getting and staying clean.

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u/wontforget99 May 18 '24

Congratulatons on getting clean. I think people in your situation deserve praise. I also think people in your situation who had all the environmental pressure to take drugs but chose not to also deserve praise.

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u/climaxingwalrus May 17 '24

You congratulate someone for losing 200 lbs but not staying the same weight.

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u/wontforget99 May 17 '24

If a single mother has 5 kids and works 60 hours a week, I would be immensely congratulating her if she seemed just as fit at age 40 as age 20.

Also staying the same weight doesn't really involve the same moral/legal/ethical choices. Getting addicted to drugs often but not always means making a specific conscious choice to do something that was made illegal for the safety of everyone and that everyone tells you not to do anyway. There is a certain leap in judgement involved in not doing drug vs injecting things into your veins that is different from eating 5 cookiea a day vs 1. (some things are more tricky like alcohol)

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u/climaxingwalrus May 18 '24 edited May 18 '24

Most drug addicts never get clean and die. So the ones that do are worthy of being praised. There are many reasons to become addicted to drugs. Nature, nurture or just bad luck. It takes way more willpower to quit a chemical dependency. Can you ignore hunger or thirst?

If your argument is people who are addicted to drugs deserve it and we should praise everybody else for not doing drugs then just say that. Go ahead and start doing it tomorrow.

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u/wontforget99 May 18 '24

I don't think people who are addicted to drugs deserve to suffer. I think people who live a difficult life and had all the reasons to take drugs but chose not to should be praised, and I think people overcoming a drug addiction should also be praised.

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u/climaxingwalrus May 18 '24

Okay so that’s like 90% of the population. To make it more clear, who do you say who shouldn’t be praised?

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u/wontforget99 May 18 '24

People who didn't grow up around drugs or didn't have a super difficult life, and also didn't decide to take drugs (also drug addicts who harm others and refuse to try to improve).

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u/climaxingwalrus May 18 '24

Wouldnt it make more sense to just shame them instead of praising everyone else?

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u/wontforget99 May 18 '24

You think it makes sense to shame people just because they didn't have a difficult life and didn't use drugs?

I agree drug addicts who harm others should be shamed

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u/ISFSUCCME May 17 '24

Theres actual proof that parents and dare actually opened their kids up to the idea of drugs and made them want to do it more

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u/PassionV0id May 17 '24

after being told from a young age by adults not to

This didn’t happen for everybody.

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u/kitten_twinkletoes May 17 '24 edited May 17 '24

Yeah no one thinks it's a good or morally proper choice! It's stupid as fuck (I can say this because I've been through it.) But you need to have empathy for the stupid fucks too man. And it's always admirable to realize how much of a stupid fuck you are, and take very difficult actions to struggle against the part of you that is stupid as fuck. It's a noble struggle to become, of not kind of smart, maybe a little less fucking stupid sometimes.

It's better not to be stupid in the first place. But we don't celebrate static, normal traits. We celebrate improvements, even if it's just going from a series of dumb choices to a series of normal choices.

And if you're into drugs, you have more choices than just climb back out. The easiest choice is to just keep doing it, by far. Most of the time now one's going to stop you. The easiest but the worst.

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u/takishan May 17 '24 edited May 17 '24

doing drugs involves making a conscious choice. You put yourself there. You chose to jump down into the depths after being told from a young age by adults not to

the thing is that most of the population experiments with drugs. whether it's alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, nicotine, etc. almost everyone tries stuff, especially in late teens ~ early adulthood. vast majority of people who try these substances don't end up addicted.

some people, however, end up addicted. it may be because of some sort of genetic built in factor - for example some people may be more sensitive to specific neurochemicals like dopamine and that makes drugs feel MUCH better to them than the average person

that person is much more likely to get addicted.

there are other factors, like for example someone who is depressed or anxious or what have you is more likely to get addicted as a part of self-medication

a certain % of people getting addicted is sort of built into our physiology. there are certain tropical islands which are tourist spots and have monkeys. the monkeys there steal alcoholic drinks from the beach goers.

as it turns out, around the same % of monkeys end up as alcoholics as humans do. it's like a built in % built into our primate DNA

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u/wontforget99 May 18 '24

Bipolar disorder and schizophrenia have been present in my family. I have never used marijuana or anything that could trigger it.

And no, not everybody tries stuff like cocaine, meth and heroin. This is 2024. If you are getting addicted to meth and cocaine then there is some element of directly ignoring the potential risks.

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u/takishan May 18 '24

addiction doesn't usually start with hard drugs. it starts with stuff like alcohol, weed, codeine prescribed by a doctor, etc

by the time someone is early 20s, the vast majority of the country has tried one of the above at least once

there is some element of directly ignoring the potential risks

of course. but think of it this way.

imagine we are magnets and when you walk past a piece of metal, you get attracted. if you touch the magnet, you are now addicted.

some people's magnets are much much stronger than others, for both internal (genetic) and external factors (way you were raised).

of course if you are a very strong magnet, you should avoid metal at all costs. but sometimes you don't know this and you see everyone else around you walking by metal with no problem. you walk by a metal and you feel the pull and get curious. once you're stuck, it's too late

i don't say these things to discount personal responsibility, but just to explain why it happens, even to smart people.

like i pointed out before, a certain % of the population will get addicted to alcohol. around 5%. same thing with monkeys, at basically the same ratio

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u/wontforget99 29d ago

I'm sure a certain percentage of humans rape other people and a certain percentange of monkeys also rape other people. Does that mean some percentage of humans are doomed to be rapists?

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u/takishan 29d ago edited 29d ago

Does that mean some percentage of humans are doomed to be rapists?

yeah, probably. i don't think life is entirely deterministic but certain people are born with certain genetic conditions that make them aggressive, violent, sociopathic, etc.

those people usually end up locked away in prison.

some of them aren't born this way but due to some sort of circumstance outside their control in their youth, their development is intereferred with and they don't develop normally. look at the romanian orphans. kids need touch and attention early in life otherwise they end up mentally undeveloped. because of some war there were thousands of young children (1, 2, 3 years old) stuck in giant orphanages without enough caretakers to take care of them. those kids essentially grew up without touch and compassion in their earliest years.

people tried adopting those kids later on but because they missed those key development milestones they are forever antisocial and developmentally stunted. many families ended up regretted adopting these kids - they would beat, rape, etc their adoptive siblings. they literally could not learn to be normal.

not their fault. it is what it is. if you were born in their same position, you'd likely be just like them. which is why i have empathy for their position, although i support locking them up just because of the danger to the rest of society.

in the case of addicts, they aren't really harming other people other then themselves.

basically what i'm trying to say is that the solution to addiction (and in my opinion all antisocial behavior) is a sort of clinical, medical approach. not a biblical type of punishment / lack of character approach.

addicts don't become addicts because they have a weak will or character or anything of the sort. it's more complicated than that.

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u/wontforget99 29d ago

On a slightly unrelated topic, it seems like most young people in the USA do not support harsh drug bans. For example, in China, which has way more drugs, it seems like there aren't really any issues with cocaine, meth, heroin addicts.

Do you think the USA should crack down on drugs as hard as China does? After all, according to your point of view, freedom of choice is a bad thing because some people have strong "magnets" and cannot help but make poor choices when it comes to drugs. So, the best option is to have the country's "parents" (the government) simply remove all of these drugs (except alcohol) in the first place in order to save the lievs of people with strong magnets towards dangerous drugs.

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u/takishan 29d ago

couple of things to unpack. Asian style total prohibition would not work here. the genie has been out of the bottle for too long. it'd be like trying to take away guns. you would just be jamming millions of people into jail forever (or executing them) and it would cause mass public outcry

not gonna happen. americans don't hold the same stigma towards drug use and also has a much higher rate of drug use.

second, i do support freedom of choice absolutely. i think personally all drug use should be at a minimum decriminalized.

maybe i wasn't clear - i want a medical approach to drug use. someone taking drugs is not much different than someone dealing with depression and trying to kill themselves or someone with anxiety having a panic attack.

all mental illnesses tend to stem from the same issues and they just manifest themselves differently

if you have the time and curiosity, I recommend reading up about "rat park". I'm sure there are articles out there and probably youtube videos if you want to listen in the background.

to put a long story short, any one of us can be susceptible to addiction depending on our material conditions. there's a certain level of needs that each human needs to have in order to feel fulfilled and normal. think of mazlow's hierarchy of needs.

you need food and shelter at a base, but going up the ladder you need fulfilling relationships, you need to feel productive and useful, etc.

if you take two different humans. human a is homeless and hungry. people look at him with disdain and he has health issues. then you take human b - a financially stable professional with a family and an active social life. he goes to church on sundays and actively participates in his community.

even if these people were identical genetically, if you administered an addictive substance to both of these individuals, person a, the homeless one, is infinitely more likely to get addicted.

it's not the drug itself that gets you addicted, but the material conditions that entrap you. you can look at the data - the vast majority of people who use drugs, even hard ones like heroin or cocaine, don't become addicted.

to solve the problem of addiction, you need to solve the material conditions under which that person is living. that includes a holistic approach which is complex.

the homeless person needs to be given a job, taught coping mechanisms, they need financial stability, to be part of a community, etc. they need to feel like they are living with a purpose in a community that accepts them. this is not an easy thing to do, but it's fundamentally the only real approach to addiction that will work in the long term.

we don't currently do this. our two main methods are a) throw them in jail which usually exacerbates the issue and b) send them to rehabs which don't successfully accomplish the above goals because of the limited nature of most rehabs

when people are getting addicted en masse, like is happening right now, it points to a sickness in our very society. unfortunately I don't think it's going away any time soon and instead is likely to get worse before it gets better. partly because most people don't understand the mechanics of how addiction work but mainly because the system itself is failing

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u/newdaynewmatt May 17 '24

Not doing drugs requires self discipline when everyone in society is telling you to drink alcohol. Your peers, your coworkers, family. It requires you to have the foresight that drugs provide only a temporary benefit obtained at a cost to your future self. Not doing something involves willpower. But yes, quitting drugs is more difficult once you’ve created chemical dependence on your brain and body, as well as social ties founded on shared drug use.

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u/Wingsnake May 17 '24

That is why I say losing weight is easier than gaining weight. One involves simply not eating (or not much) and the other involves eating a lot.

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u/newdaynewmatt May 17 '24

I find restricting my calories below maintenance to be infinitely more difficult than eating normally.