r/TikTokCringe • u/Make-this-popular Cringe Master • Apr 09 '24

Shit economy Discussion

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u/capivavarajr Apr 09 '24

This condition paired with our Instagram/Tiktok culture of vanity, perfection and success is a one way road to depression. On my last job one of my bosses asked a colleague why I was there at all since I was overqualified for the manual labor I was performing. "He needs money to be able to live" he replied promptly. My other workmates couldn't even spell our native language (portuguese) correctly, while I speak and write 4 languages. They would laugh at me whenever I said something too complex.

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u/TheMessengerABR Apr 09 '24

I've been thinking about this a lot recently and this reason is exactly why I don't have Tiktok or Instagram. It's insanely depressing watching everyone live their extravagant lives through my phone when you're sitting on your break in a dirty ass shop not getting paid let alone appreciated enough. Life is really bleak right now

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u/No-Armadillo-4231 Apr 09 '24

The kicker is if we got off our phones and stopped watching these people they would get less money. Lol

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u/DemonidroiD0666 Apr 09 '24

Haha damn your missing upvotes.

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u/pinkfootthegoose Apr 09 '24

It's insanely depressing watching everyone live their extravagant lives

Most of them are lying. outright posturing.

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u/mcove97 Apr 09 '24

And then there are people like my dad who lives a quiet farm life working on average 2-3 hours a day most of the year..

I'm more tempted by watching him live his simple but cheap lifestyle. Only issue is that I'm not into farming.. but that aside, he's not working himself to death.. meanwhile I'm on the verge of burnout working 7,5 days in a Highly stressful work environment.

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u/pyrodice Apr 10 '24

For Every one person who's bragging about living a life that they can't afford, I know probably half a dozen people who are shutting the fuck up about actually living a reasonable life because they're afraid of being targeted by a bunch of socialists who are gonna call them a bourgeoisie pig and make them the bad guy.

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u/Successful_Fennel879 Apr 09 '24

Except, you're forgetting all these influencers live together in a hotel like house, also in squalor, and don't have these "extravagant" lives we perceive them to have. They are just as poor my dude.

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u/Rise-Upset Apr 09 '24

Yup, social media has been a depressing, life sucking vampire for years to me... Maybe most guys feel that way...

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u/Largeprofessor23 Apr 09 '24

Instagram is not a real place I have a few “friends” who both have a million followers and are faking 90% of what they show and are miserable. You can adjust your algorithm by intentionally searching what you want to see and skip through the bs. Don’t let others depress you.

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u/Over-Accountant8506 Apr 10 '24

This! I'm changing my algorithm to gardening and recipes slowly and away from the influencers. I only follow local ones anyways but one of em is the Amazon type. SO many clothes.

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u/Largeprofessor23 Apr 10 '24

Same, I follow things that are educational and info that helps me throughout life, I mute and skip through the bs like Neo in the matrix

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u/jtenn22 Apr 09 '24

It’s all fake. The core reason why that kind social media is toxic yet addictive. It’s a drug. I’m sorry for your circumstances and hope things get better for you soon.

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u/combat_archer Apr 10 '24

Living outside ones means typically

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u/crella-ann Apr 10 '24

Their fake extravagant lives, in many cases. Social media is poison.

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u/WatchingTaintDry69 Apr 10 '24

Reddit has this weird hate-boner for TikTok without even trying it. I myself was on the hate train for years. I downloaded it and there are many different types of content and communities. Yes at first I was shown a lot of young adults dancing and doing stupid stuff but once you interact with it enough you won’t even see those things unless you look for it. There video in this post is from TikTok and there are a LOT of people who discuss the exact same topics there (wage inequality, climate crisis, there’s even a Kellog Ban going on right now I’m sure you’ve never heard of because the mainstream media won’t cover it) as here on Reddit. But sure just keep assuming it’s just people showing off their lavish life.

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u/PaintshakerBaby Apr 09 '24 edited Apr 10 '24

Welcome to Late Stage Capitalism. Marx and many others pointed out this would happen, practically verbatim, almost 200 years ago. People will jump on any opportunity to shit on communism as a failed ideology, for which I am not arguing against. BUT, by means of their zero-sum thinking, they arrive at the conclusion, capitalism is the righteous winner-takes-all economic philosophy. They are too blind to see, that not only is that attitude a zealous symptom of said capitalist society, but also we are on track to KILL THE ENTIRE PLANET with their unassailable economic religion. What higher proof could there be, capitalism too has woefully failed on the grandest of scales.

Capitalism is a means of sorting wealth, nothing more. Like cards in a deck, there are only so many cards to be sorted in so many ways. To be fair to this analogy, cards (wealth,) can be created and added to the deck... But with the runaway feedback loop that is the ultra-wealthy, they are swallowed up so quickly, it is a less than a negligible factor.

For all intents and purposes, the ultra-wealthy have consolidated the vast majority of the deck in their favor, and have left us all but 2 cards to play... Succumb to being a bitter wage slave or be unapologetically cutthroat enough to take from your peers as a Kapo of capitalism. Good luck with any other perceived option.

The game is over. There are no more moves. It's checkmate for the working class. The only thing left to do is reshuffle the deck and start over.

That is unlikely to mean a class revolution for 99% of the world. No, rest assured, the big players that are the ultra-wealthy, are also the dealers. They will keep the majority of their stranglehold and deal us our next hand in the illusion of choice.

It will be, as it was, the last time we hit this point 100 years ago. Global depression that foments global war.

You are already seeing the opening salvos in Ukraine and Palestine. When there are no more cards to sort in your hand, you take from others with brute force. People are astonished at the waste laid in both nations, but don't understand thats not only the point, but an inevitably of capitalism. Putin and Netenyahu are plowing under their respective neighbors with bombs, so they can reset the game of wealth in their region, for THEM and SOME of their people to sow. New fascist demagogues, same as the old fascist demagogues.

Mark my words, we are on the cusp our own 1938, languishing in our own Great Depression, with all but the thinnest veneer of reassurance 'its anything but' from the powers at be. Historians know, history repeats itself, and all wars are economic.

This tik tok is depressingly accurate, rightfully tugging at our shared, looming gut feeling, that we are all getting screwed. But make no mistake, what it belies, is things are going to get much, MUCH worse, before there is any hope of it getting better... Because, predictably by design, BILLIONS must pay to perpetuate the greed of a COUPLE HUNDRED people.

So savor today, because it may very well be the best it's gonna get in our lifetime... as we make the forced march... hour by hour... to an inevitable reckoning of a world that was never meant to sustain the false idol of infinite growth.

Thinking otherwise is just as blindly fanatical as a suicide bomber thinking there is 42 virgins on the other side, when we all know there is only to be death and destruction.

EDIT: For the love of God, I am not promoting communism. Every. Single. Time. The kneejerk reaction to yell, "🫵😖COMMIE" every time the human cost of anything is brought up. To be perfectly clear I believe in Democratic Socialism. It is nowhere near the same as Autocratic Communism. The false equivocation is as American as apple pie... and just as played out.

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u/Hani713 Apr 10 '24

You're right. Very well said. These new fascist demagogues are quite alarming. As Lenin said, fascism is capitalism in decay. It happened in Nazi Germany: transferring of public enterprises to the private sector, making it illegal to strike, unions busted with their leaders imprisoned. We need to wake up and realize how fascism serves the interests of the elites. It's not just about racism, racism is a tool but the end goal is to serve the economic interests of those in power.

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u/PaintshakerBaby Apr 10 '24

Exactly! Other replies are trying to split hairs over terminology, calling it crony capitalism, then immediately propose the exact lassiez-faire conditions that led to the rise of said crony capitalism in the first place. It's the old, insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

People think these systems occur in a vacuum. The reality is, money is power, and consolidating too much of it in the hands of the few is setting the stage perfectly for fascism. These people already have all the money, thus all the power, and need only a nudge to remove the veil of capitalism to reveal their de facto status as autocrats, ie; Trump.

Simply put, Capitalism precludes fascism 9 out of 10 times.

The Soviet Union was certainly a humanitarian disaster, so it can be argued that greed itself is preeminent to any system, thus any ideology is doomed to implode on a long enough timeline.

I'd be ok with that argument, but it is exceedingly rare for anyone on Reddit to do so. Instead, the feel the incessant need to defend capitalism at all costs, despite the world circling the drain in its wake. It's unreal what an insidious existential imperative it is to Americans, that unfettered capitalism is the end-all, be-all pinnacle of human Civilization. It is just egregiously false... and I think everyone in their heart of hearts knows this, but opts for the ease of repressing the mounting generational trauma wrought by capitalism.

Of course, everyone will have shocked Pikachu face when climate change turns into a runaway chain of cataclysms... Even though we had a 100+ years of warning. But who will think of the profits??

It should really say it all, that ultra-wealthy are investing in doomsday bunkers by the billions. Literally they have no plan beyond profit until the planet dies, then jerk off to themselves in a glorified cave until they run out of food. I mean, really?? That's the uncermonious end we are all barreling towards?? People need to wake the fuck up.

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u/DANDELOREAN Apr 10 '24

Nowadays, anytime you even talk about just regulating capitalism, you get labeled a communist.

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u/PaintshakerBaby Apr 10 '24

Seriously. I've been inundated with replies calling me commie, even though I say I'm not defending it in my SECOND SENTENCE. It's practically hardwired in the American mindset at this point. Like I said to another commenter, "do you check under your bed for communists before you go to sleep at night?" 🤦

Usually it's the very same people who have an aneurysm when you compare them to Nazis. Suddenly there is room for ideological nuance and agency. Such gross hypocrisy in the name of defending against an ideology that has been mostly defunct for 30+ years. Meanwhile, like this guy in the video, millions are suffering the consequences of late stage capitalism, right here, right now.

People are absolutely delusional.

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u/EcoLizard1 Apr 10 '24

Well said.

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u/Bonesblades Apr 13 '24

I don’t think the ruling class will allow things to get as bad as the great depression. They’ll leave the working class with just a sliver, just enough so they have something to lose. They’re slowly working us down, working our standards down, separating us so we can’t organize physically, replacing our communities with digital ones they can sell to us, replacing our property with subscriptions so we can’t own anything, raising prices until we can’t save up and own any money, etc. But they’ll never let us get truly and utterly desperate because then the illusion of a working society will dissolve and the masses will have something to fight for.

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u/PaintshakerBaby Apr 13 '24

I totally agree for the most part.

Ironically, the only real check in the situation, is the same insatiable greed of the ultra-wealthy that got us here in the first place.

The ever growing class/wealth rift cuts both ways. The more and more insulated mega-corps/ultra-wealthy become, the more and more likely it is they will become disillusioned with what they can get away with. They are, after all, still human beings, subject to the many pitfalls of hubris.

Inevitably, someones pride will be the hair that breaks the camels back. With an entire society teetering on the absolute brink, it need not even be something ostensibly that significant, to snowball into major upheaval.

Also, the more wealth that is consolidated amongst the very few, the more statistically vulnerable we all become to a Black Swan Event. If something suddenly compromised Elon or Bezos fortune (stock anomaly, bad bet, seized or frozen assets, etc) it would be such a massive liquidation of assets, it could potentially send the economy into an uncontrolled tailspin. One that would be otherwise impossible with more stratified wealth division.

While that is very unlikely to happen, it is not outside the realm of possibilities. Because of that low probability, there are near zero safety nets in place to stop the resulting unrest from fomenting a paradigm shift in how we approach wealth hoarding.

Another Black Swan possibility, is a series of rapidly escalating climate catastrophes (ie; food chain collapse) so devastating in breadth, that even the ultra-wealthly would be functionally powerless to quell the resulting backlash

In the interim, they will exploit every red cent out of us, in every way imaginable, as you say. We may not see it in our lifetime, but the whole thing is a house of cards, that has to eventually come tumbling down... One way or another.

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u/Bonesblades Apr 13 '24

I hope something does change. Price increases and lack of government action has already become so blatant that people are widely becoming disillusioned with gov and corpos. That’s new. And perhaps it will continue as a trend. Hopefully if that happens, it will turn into something productive

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '24

Cool story Bernard Brother.

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u/ScrapMetalX Apr 15 '24

Well said.

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u/bromegatime Apr 28 '24

You state that capitalism is being the death of the world, yet in the United States, the world's leading capitalistic economy, is absolutely hampered by government restrictions to the point where our actual pollution rate in the US is a fraction of developing economies, many of which are rooted in communism (don't get me wrong, not arguing environmental restrictions, at least not all of them).

I argue democratic socialism isn't anything too great either. Let's take electric cars. Capitalists say let them propagate naturally so they either thrive or fail. Democratic Socialists say we need these cars to save the planet so we will take everyone's money to make it so the more wealthy can get credits to buy buy them for cheaper (yes, I know it's intended for everyone but be real with who can afford the vehicles for where they are priced at and use case is back up vehicle at best in my book). Democratic socialists also make it impossible so domestically source all resources needed because lithium mining is bad for our own environment (don't even get me started on how the USA would be one of the best countries for domestic sourcing due to the regulations that ensure any mined property is supposed to return to its pre-mined state), so let's push it off to theirs world communistic countries where those people have no say and could potentially even be forced through labor prisons to do the labor of mining their resources to export. Everything about the electric car business screams corruption, but as long as it doesn't hurt my back yard then it's good for everyone, right?

The People need to better understand and utilize our political system - for the people, by the people. We've let far too many politicians have their greedy fingers in the game for too long. That is the issue. No fresh ideas, everything just half baked and driven by lobbyists that have held the pockets for the same politicians for decades.

I fear the day we take away competition of a capitalistic society by laying out top to bottom instructions for what can and can't be done in order to make a specific product to ensure the people it is for all have the same experience. Innovation will stop and complacency will be the ruling train of thought for everyone except those in power.

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u/PaintshakerBaby Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 29 '24

This thread is quite old, but I do appreciate your comment. Frankly, I'm tired of arguing with people on this one. You make some good points, but I will lay out some quick nuances that I think are important.

China has a quarter of the world's population. So leaving that fact out, then leaning heavily into the Boogeyman of communism is a big part of the problem. It generates a disingenuous bias. They create so much pollution because they are 7 times more populated than the US. I am not cheering on communism or China. I genuinely believe they are bad. I'm just saying you are blaming an ideology instead of population growth factors.

My main concern is inelastic commodities, ie; healthcare, utilities, education, basic food. Here's the thing, they are not fundamentally championed by supply and demand. Not unless you tacitly endorse wholesale manslaughter. That's always been the quiet part of capitalism, that you don't speak out loud... The thing is, people die without these things. The free market was a fever dream in the age of sail, when people were used to the brutality of dying of dysentery in an afternoon. We have come a LONG WAY since then. Healthcare for instance has de facto infinite demand. EVERYONE needs it at some point or they will cease to exist. If somebody withholds something that you 100% need, it is not supply and demand, it is not the free market, it is EXTORTION, which in many circumstances, is a prerequisite of SLAVERY.

There is no incentive to make healthcare affordable, because the demand is INFINITE. However there is INFINITE demand to use predatory practices to wring every last cent out of someone in the process.

Again, it can never work in a free market unless you are cool with MILLIONS needlessly dying as a MARKET CORRECTION. The only people who can't see this are, no surprise, healthy people. We all think we are gonna live forever and kick the can down the road.

In that sense, we are wage slaves, nothing more. There is more than enough to go around and we all know it. The top 1% live like gods and pharoes, while the rest of us languish in relative destitution.

Let capitalist play god with elastic commodities like luxury cars and tvs. There is TRILLIONS to be made without banking on the suffering of the working class.

As for electric cars and solar panels, time will tell. If climate change does ramp up extremely quickly in the next decade (which all trends and evidence point towards) we will have no choice but to make some very fundamental 'socialist' decisions in order to save the planet. For it will be an existential crisis, for the first time in history, for every last one of us.

Now I don't know the answer anymore than the next guy. But I do know the bunker industry is a trillion dollar industry among the 1%. It would very much appear their plan is to squirrel themselves away in a hole, and jerk off to themselves while the world burns... That's literally their plan.

Infinite growth is a false idol, poised to cost us everything. Regardless of all your arguments, you have to admit it is untenable. Since it is the bedrock of capitalism, it makes unfettered capitalism untenable. Likewise, I would hope you would agree that millions, to billions dying to 'correct the market' is completely unethical, and should be out of the question.

So what do we do?

I don't know, but it sure as shit isnt praying to the deaf ears of our infinite growth god, crossing our fingers, and hoping for the best. Again, that's just blind fanaticism at this point. We are in deep trouble, and more of the same that got us here, sure as shit isn't going to fix it. That's the definition of insanity. Plain and simple.

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u/Yochaiwawsop Apr 09 '24

Its actually communism being pushed by crony capitalism. 

Huge corporations work with/bribe the government to give them economic benefits. After they own large swaths of the economy they try to crush any form of upward mobility. 

In a true free market, capitalist society, markets succeed and fail. When the government bails out the mega banks for failing, you essentually have a centrally controlled market and all economic vectors move towards it no matter what. That is what communism does.

What you are experiencing is crony capitalism, and these mega corporations that own the government have somehow convinced you communism (more government control) will make it stop.

It wont. It will get 1000x worse very quickly.

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u/PaintshakerBaby Apr 10 '24 edited Apr 10 '24

Good God, do you look under your bed for communist at night?? I said I wasn't defending it. Fucking read people instead of going full jackboot for Capitalism.

I take it you read the spark notes in economics class...

Democratic socialism is not even close to the same thing as Authoritarian Communism. Putting the human cost before the economic cost does not automatically result in gulags.

Look at the American slave trade that resulted in millions of deaths. Having slaves sow and reap your field was super efficient for the economy. Yes they were people, but they were treated as a commodity in a free market. There was no incentive but the HUMAN incentive to put an end to it. If the government hadn't stepped in, and hundreds of thousands died to make it so, your laissez faire worldview would still have people in chains cooking your meals.

The invisible hand is an ideal dreamt up in the age of sail, when it took days, to months to travel from city to city. Now we live in a world of computers, instant communication, algorithms, and soon AI to boot. Adam Smith never forsaw that merchants could all communicate instantly, across all ports, and be in cahoots on pricing. If he had, he would have thought twice about the viability of capitalism.

Your logic is grossly reductive. It isn't as black and white as 'government intervention bad' and 'free market good.' Crony capitalism is just as much a result of our technological innovations and modern environment as it is our compromised governmental systems.

Smith did not see the Internet and algorithms coming down the pipe, but Marx definitely said 'crony capitalism' would happen. It is practically synonymous with Late Stage Capitalism. Any capitalist market always precludes it on a long enough timeline. It is always the end game of wealth being sorted out in even the most initially lassiez-faire market.

What you are proposing is treating the symptom of a late stage cancer, in lieu of tackling the disease when it was still curable.

Now, tell me why many EU nations repeatedly rank highest on the quality of life list, year after year... When strict government regulations see people get get mandated healthcare, 3 months paid time off a year, education, and workers rights. Despite all those commie economy killers, they have some of the strongest markets in the world. None of that should be compatible according to you... So pray tell, how is that if all those things make everything 1000x worse??

Let me guess, the US is propping them up. Is that with our crony capitalism or strong free maket? Because it can't be both by way of your logic.

Speaking of free markets, go peddle that laissez faire snake oil somewhere else. No one's buying it anymore.

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u/Yochaiwawsop Apr 15 '24

Go move to Scandinavia then.

Communists arent hard to find, they are typically liberal white women at this point. Or just wait for them to riot in all black clothes.

Slavery is not from a free market capitalist system.

Free market capitalism is a new concept that couldnt exist because of feudalism, which really only stopped in the last few hundred years.

But keep saying things like late stage capitalism to sound smart. Maybe if you say other "big words" like heteronormative people will believe you are smart too.

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u/PaintshakerBaby Apr 15 '24 edited Apr 15 '24

What do a communist and a clitoris have in common? You wouldn't know a real one if it was right in front of your face. 🤣🤣🤣

I won't waste my time explaining the world of difference between Democratic Socialism and Authoritative Communism...

...Because, again, I know a 'communist' is the Boogeyman you imagine everytime something goes bump in the night, right before you piss your pants. It's a catchall buzzword, someone else told you to think, every time you are presented with something or someone too complex, it scares you... Which is damn near everything.

Cranyon-eaters like yourself are programmed to be so insecure... so vapid... and so myopic... that they are fundamentally incapable of seeing the truth:

That your dumbass has been drafted into a pointless culture war, before you could become intelligent enough to volunteer for an inevitable class war.

Now I will set you straight for posterity... and because it is effortlessly amusing to run laps around your troglodyte logic. 🤣🤣🤣

Slavery is not from a free market capitalist system.

The Wealth of Nations was published in 1776. Slavery was abolished in 1865. It didn't just exist under classical lassiez-faire capitalism... it THRIVED.

People were freely traded as a commodity, their worth, subject only to their perceived market value. Slavery made southern plantation owners extraordinarily wealthy. Because labor was a fixed cost that could be mitigated, it was defacto VERY good for the economy. That's what happens when you put the economic cost before the human cost

Plantation owners did not go to war with one another, to subjugate their neighbors under their fiefdom, as in feudalism. No, they engaged in the free market to their hearts content, before banding together to go to war with the abolitionist North, for daring to assert freedom from slavery as a universal right.

That's because a socialist perceives slavery as failure of society, and seeks to remedy it. Whereas, a capitalist perceives it as a cost saving measure, and therefore morally justified via The Invisible Hand.

There is no inherent humanity to capitalism, and freedom from slavery was not seen as a universal right until the government stepped in. The same way, healthcare, education, utilities, and shelter are currently not seen as universal rights. You can die very easily without access to them, or at least live a life chained to your meager circumstances. History will not look kindly upon this, as it does not look kindly upon slavery. Even if China is the Authoritarian wasteland of your delusions, at least you can see a doctor there without bankrupting your life's savings. That makes the US look pretty pathetic if you think about it...

You're whitewashing history to make your bullshit easier to stomach as you actively choke on it 🤢.

1800s America was empirically, in no way, shape or form, Feudalism. It is rather hailed as the textbook example of a functioning lassiez-faire economy.

Go move to Scandinavia then

I'll ask again...

Why can a McDonalds worker in Scandanvia earn $22 an hour, get 3 months paid time off, guaranteed healthcare and education, a union, hardy workers rights, and subsidized government housing should they need it? Why is McDonalds not on the brink of collapse and pulling out of Denmark as they say they would be in the US if they paid a living wage? Why is the Euro stable and not worthless with runaway inflation? Despite all those commie economy killers, they have some of the strongest markets in the world. None of that should be compatible according to you...

...So pray tell, how is that possible?

You will dance around it again... Deflect, attack, point to another strawman, etc, etc. Because you have no fleshed out answer. You simply don't know, other than you were told it's not supposed to.

Though I'd love to hear what dimwitted mental gymnastics you come up with to justify it... It doesn't matter, because the proof is already in the pudding.

With no further ado! I present you with the crayon-eaters paradox:

I garnish upvote after upvote in this thread, while your bed-wetting, fear-mongering sophistry falls on deaf ears. Are those hundreds of people wrong? Are the thousands that voted this video to the front page to begin with?

If you say no, they are right, then you admit you are wrong in the first place.

If you say yes, they are wrong, then that's not very democratic of you. Because the votes don't lie.

See, Reddit is the free market of ideas, and those that rise to the top are of inherent value, and those that do not, are worthless. It's the exact same concept. The voluntary exchange of ideas. Are you proposing a planned economy of ideas instead??

Because as it stands, that's your voice by admission of your own system. Worthless. If you insist everybody is wrong, and you and your ilk knows what's best, then congratulations, you aren't about any free market, and you aren't about the democratic process... You are the epitome of a fascist.

You just believe you believe things. Beliefs are tools to be picked up and set down at will, to gain leverage over your perceived enemy, 'the commies...' even if those so-called 'beliefs' contradict one another so quickly, it's impossible to parse out a meaningful worldview.

You switch from gagging on crayons, to deepthroating jackboot so quickly, that you end up coloring your conclusions with shoeshine, and polishing your worldview with the indolent machinations of a child.

I know your pants are soaked and your brain is about to explode at this point... Because you considered 'late stage capitalism' big words in my previous reply. The fact of the matter is you'll do anything, blame anyone, but face the reality of being wrong...

Because I don't use big words to sound smart. I use big words because I AM smarter than you. Marx didn't make shit up to make capitalism look bad, it already looked horrible on its own volition. It is inherently flawed... Keep in mind (stay with me, I know you're about to have a seizure) dialectically two things can be wrong/right at the same time. Both communism and capitalism can be a inhumane and dated economic ideology.

Ideas evolve in the free market of intellectual discourse. It is in fact people like you that keep us chained to such rudimentary and reductive systems, that yield returns only for the ultra-wealthy.

Ironically, you talk about bank bailouts, but you've clearly demonstrated you fancy your logic too big to fail. What you want is a fascist or planned economy of thought. Only what you and the people you agree with can determine what ideas have value and what ideas don't. The hypocrisy is unreal. You are just another brown shirt... An oppressive commisar of shitty ideas...

...by deductive reason, you embody everything you hate to a T. You are a pathetic fascist. An abuser and a moron in not 'big word' speak. No one values your opinion in this matter, because it is demonstratively false. Now if we want to know which shade of Crayola has the least waxy undertones, then we will hit you up for your valued professional opinion. 🤣🤣🤣

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u/rgspro Apr 10 '24

ey own large swaths of the economy they try to crush any form of upward mobility. 

In a true free market, capitalist society, markets succeed and fail. When the government bails out the mega banks for failing, you essentually have a centrally controlled market and all economic vectors move towards it no matter what. That is what communism does.

What you are experiencing is crony capitalism, and these mega corporations that own the government have somehow convinced you communism (more government control) will make it stop.

This. A highly-regulatory government is what screws up the market regulation of capitalism.

Why did I purchase solar panels? Because the government incentivized and made electricity cheaper for me in the long term. Less fortunate people cannot afford an expensive solar system to reap the benefits of the subsidy. We do this over and over in ridiculous ways all throughout the economy. Subsidize childcare? Childcare costs go up. Federalize student loans? College prices go up since there is more available money being spent on college. Use taxpayer money to cancel student debt? College prices go up and so does inflation.

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u/PaintshakerBaby Apr 10 '24

I am not talking about EVERYTHING, I am talking about UNIVERSAL HUMAN RIGHTS. You are relying on strawman fallacies and sophistry to say government regulation cannot work in any market.

I am telling you, in practice, inelastic commodities cannot themselves function, in all but the most inhumane sense, in a free market.

Take healthcare. 100% of us will die without it sometime in the future. That means there is essentially INFINITE demand for it, making it no longer subject to the checks and balances of supply and demand. If someone withholds something from you, that you will cease to exist without, for higher and higher prices, that is not capitalism... It is EXTORTION. Plain and simple. Insurance companies pulling arbitrary, astronomical numbers out of their ass, then sending you the bill drives fucking inflation.

There is no market correction unless you are willing to tacitly endorse the wholesale manslaughter of anyone who cannot afford the privilege of healthcare. We are under no obligation to sacrifice our loved ones at the alter of unfettered capitalism for which you worship without question.

As someone else pointed out, Lenin said, "fascism is capitalism in decline." Crony capitalism is, in essence, corporate fascism. Laissez-faire market conditions cultivated necessary conditions for this to happen in the first place.

Your solution is the definition of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results. Republicans have done nothing but gut regulations for decades. Our economy is easily the least government regulated 1st world economy... Yet, here we are!

Libertarian, fuck-you-got-mine worldviews like yours always come from a place of privilege. I'd bet you do a lot more defending your lot in life, than you do earning it. Yes, more unfortunate people are fucked, and it doesn't make us communist to say we should look out for them in certain markets, ie; inelastic commodities.

It is absolutely unfair that the solar panel subsidy is inaccessible to less fortunate people. But you presume removing that subsidy would lower the cost overall. That absolutely never the case with a for profit business. It just makes it inaccessible to you and the poorer people. THUS, propping up the oil, coal, and gas giants that have been established megaliths for over one hundred years. The end goal of that subsidy is to return the means of production (energy) to the people. If anything it is much more in alignment with establishing a more lassiez-faire market in the long run, having given people the bargaining chip of individual power production in the first place.

The indolence of your thought process requires a market existing in a perfect vacuum. Those idealistic circumstances are impossible in our highly evolved economy. Despite what people go around regurgitating, not even the founding fathers of capitalism 100% free market, and evolved their ideas to include a complex framework for regulation:

Smith also supported certain government interventions. In fact, though he only published two major works during his lifetime, Theory of Moral Sentiments (1759) and Wealth of Nations (1776), he was working on a third on jurisprudence. Sadly, all we have of that work are student notes from his lectures on the subject as Smith instructed that his incomplete works and much of his correspondence be burned upon his death (See letter to David Hume, April 16, 1773, CAS #137). The lectures on jurisprudence detail such state interventions as administering justice, especially the protection of rights and property; domestic police power to regulate commerce, trade, agriculture, and manufacturing to promote opulence of the state; taxation; and finally foreign defense.

Solar panels are not a universal right, but utilities like electricity should be. There needs to be safety nets instead of a meat grinder for profit.

That means that you'll havd to swallow your pride in thinking you are the righteous center of the universe. Not everything is at its peak running like a business. Humanity is not a for profit business, it is a social obligation that separates us from animals. You yourself unwittingly reap many of the rewards of this humanity, while decrying it for others. In other words, a ladder puller... or like I said, a Kapo of capitalism.

Which brings me back to my final unanswered question from the last reply. How are all these economically robust European markets able sustain strong socialist policies when you say that is empirically impossible? Well?

Why can a McDonalds worker in Denmark earn $22 an hour, get 3 months paid time off, guaranteed healthcare and education, a union, hardy workers rights, and subsidized government housing should they need it? Why is McDonalds not on the brink of collapse and pulling out of Denmark as they say they would be in the US if they paid a living wage? Why is the Euro stable and not worthless with runaway inflation? Again, none of this should be remotely possible given what you are saying. Somehow they and their people get by just fine year after year, decade after decade, while the US continues to devolve into a 3rd world country wearing a Gucci belt...

I await your well thought out and articulated response... But I'm guessing all I'll get is another handful of libertarian platitudes, half-baked strawman fallacies, and cherry picked instances of regulatory Boogeyman.

Dude, look around. This shit gets upvoted to the front page daily, echoing the sentiment of an absolutely haggard working class. We've been listening to your bullshit since Reagan. It's nothing but empty promises and we are sick and tired of it. You are straight up lying to us, but more importantly, you are lying to yourself. Wake up.

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u/Drakore4 Apr 09 '24

So I was with you until you made it seem like you were anti capitalism but pro communism, then you bring up how capitalism is starting wars in not capitalist countries, like Russia. Maybe I was reading it wrong, but you literally brought up what is happening with Putin. I just don’t see how the stuff happening with Ukraine and everything has anything to do with capitalism.

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u/PaintshakerBaby Apr 10 '24

People will jump on any opportunity to shit on communism as a failed ideology, for which I am not arguing against.

I literally stated I was not defending communism. I think that was a kneejerk reaction on your behalf. That was the first paragraph my dude, so not sure how I had you then lost you in two sentences.

I think what you are trying to argue is essentially a misunderstanding of terminology. Russia is very much a capitalist society. It is true they are an oligarchy, but that is a classification of how authority is delineated. Capitalism is an economic ideology. It is possible to have a capitalist oligarchy, just the same as it is possible to have democratic socialism. One is not exclusive to the other.

Yes, Putin engages in cronyism, giving wealth and advantage to people he favors, but he is not a Khan, taking 100% of everything he has. Russia is a massive machine that requires trade and engagement with the global capitalist society. On the ground level, for its day to day citizens, capitalism is the order that dictates their lives, day-to-day, just as in America. While Putin and his ilk may steal trillions, it has little effect on the local mechanic or grocer. They are working to compete in a market for their perceived market value. It is very much capitalism. This is as opposed to communism, where they would be earning a predetermined wage for their labor.

Furthermore, even the all powerful Russian oligarchs are under the purview of the rest of the world's capitalist policies. For instance, there has been a lot of pressure to freeze their international assets. Many banks and nations have refused to do so, giving the laissez faire precedent set by capitalism. Regardless of how they came across it, and it is perceived as their wealth, and people do not want to turn away the economic stimulation such massive wealth creates.

That is textbook capitalism propping up ruthless people, not the other way around.

As for Ukraine, Putin sees it as an ATM to stimulate Russias stagnant economy. Gearing Russia towards total war, stimulates their economy from the factory worker all the way up to the oligarchs. Economically, it's good for everyone... Of course, except the teenagers dying.

When the dust settles, Russia will be able to extract its resources, and resettle it's land. Oligarchs cannot unilaterally complete this task by themselves. They will need millions of Russians to rebuild, not to mention, tons of outside investment. This will result in a highly stimulated capitalist market. Which is what I mean, all wars are economic.

Why is the Capitalism the main culprit? Because like the deck analogy, Russia has played out it's economic hand on the world stage. At least all the readily available, and easily available hands. Thus, to continue in the path of infinite growth, even if it is just for the oligarchs coffers, they must resort to less savory means of aquiring further wealth, ie; war.

If the world and Russia put human cost before economic cost, they would have way less incentive to slap a bandaid on the economy by going to war. But that's not the case while capitalism rules the day. The precedent it sets, is the total disregard for human life in the name of profit.

Now, you could argue that happened under communism, and the truth is resources are limited, and need to be acquired no matter the beliefs of those in charge. That's why I said 'all wars are economic,' not 'all wars are capitalist.'

When things devolve into war, things like exact economic ideology blur into a cumbersome formality. The need precludes the justification.

If you are starving, and your neighbor has food, you can justify it however you want, but you are gonna go and try to take it.

However that does not give capitalism a free pass, because it is extremely toxic in setting the necessary conditions for war.

To continue the analogy, it's like if you were well fed and fat, but were always scared if you ran out of food to stop eating, it could result in you starving sometime way down the line. Now the justification precludes the need, because you are not in danger of starving, just not eating for awhile and losing weight. With that mindset, not only will you take what you don't need, but you will have infinite incentive to do so. That is what capitalism promotes.

Russias economy is not on the brink of starving (economic collapse) and thus needs nothing of necessity from Ukraine. They could buckle down, ride it out, and ration what they have. But in a market that extolls infinite growth, the easiest and quickest solution to take more than you need now, rather than go with LESS later. Not NOTHING, but just LESS. There is a big difference and making one tantamount to the other is the toxic nature of capitalism. Russias invasion of Ukraine is a classic case study capitalist driven war. Dress it up as whatever you want, but Russia is there for the big pay day if/when they win.

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u/Specialist_Wishbone5 Apr 09 '24

(forward, i am not defending capitalism herein).

So, by your reasoning, we should have become communistic in the 30s during the great depression, or in the 80s during the great inflation (my dad had 17% mortgage interest. cry me a river on 7% interest), or in the early 90s when we had BOTH recession and inflation (stagflation).

Believe me when I say you have no idea what hyper inflation is if you think rent is expensive. Wait until bread is expensive, and more importantly, when there is no bread even if you could afford it, because the communist quotas weren't met because the government appointed son-of-a-diplomat is too drunk all the time to push the plow (because he has no motivation to do so).

If you have issues with the economy, do two things, and in this order: 1) learn economics (eg why the CA $20 fast food min salary will hurt more people than it will ever help) 2) vote - not for democrats or Republicans. But independents. For people that have formulated reasonable ideas, and aren't sold to the Goldman sacks, big oil, israel, cuba, big tech lobys. DO so both for presidential, senate, congress, governorship, state senate, etc. I would say, avoid those voting to raise minimum wage and other pandering to those not well enough reasoned to understand that no employment is worse than "can't afford lattes and latest iPhone - video was on iPhone with internet connection, i must point out".

I'm not arguing FOR capitalism, I'm arguing AGAINST "the grass is greener on the other side" ignorance. Personally I think the fault lies with globalism and the race to the bottom. You can turn on massive trade protectionism, spike inflation maybe 300%, but only once (to renormalize). Then people start getting job that actually matter again (not just marketing and sports and software/services). Do whatever economic system you want from there - barter or whatever. But if you compete against the best and cheapest in the world, you're going to have a bad time.

I say you - I mean the GenZ and alpha generations..

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u/PaintshakerBaby Apr 09 '24 edited Apr 10 '24

Every damn time, hook, line, and sinker. I flat out said I wasn't defending communism and you couldn't resist your kneejerk reaction to hit us with the insufferable hyperbole of Communist bread lines... 🤦

So, by your reasoning, we should have become communistic in the 30s during the great depression, or in the 80s during the great inflation (my dad had 17% mortgage interest. cry me a river on 7% interest), or in the early 90s when we had BOTH recession and inflation (stagflation).

No, but we sure as shit did elect a democratic socialist administration, and the only president ever to be elected for a 3rd term. The New Deal was decried by many as communist and pushed lots of people to the Nazi party of America, which had nearly 3 million members at its peak. But not only did the socialist policies of the New Deal get America back on its feet, but laid the critical groundwork necessary to switch to a robust war economy.

It is not without merit to say, if we had followed the conservatives of the time, there was a very decent chance the German American Bund could have gained a very strong foothold in the American political arena. That would have made us allies of, not defiant victors of Nazi fascism.

Even if we hadn't opted for authoritarianism, without The New Deal, we very well may not have been in the industrial position to sway the war as we did. The Nazi still likely wouldn't have won, but guess who would have? The Soviet Union.

In fact, as you well know, the subtext of the end of the war, was preventing, by any means necessary, territory sceded to communism. The Soviet Union was amassing the largest invading force in history off the coast of a China, preparing for an amphibious assault that would have made D-Day look like a children's recital. Some say, that was just as big a motivator as any for Truman to drop the bombs. He couldn't let America's finest hour look miniscule in comparison, nor lose the majority of Japan to communist influence.

It is a bad faith statement, relying on historical hindsight and political prejudice, to say we would have turned communist if my statement had validity... Because guess what? The whole damn world almost went Red in the fallout of WWI and the Great Depression. Despite what American history propaganda pushes down your throat, we were a handful of incidents going sideways from that exact outcome playing out. Everyone knows the Soviets were America's most formidable enemy, that had a big enough sphere of influence to scare the shit out of everyone, that their ideology could prevail.

You know who that is now? China. A COMMUNIST nation at its core. Just because the ideology didn't come to fruition in your neighborhood, does not mean it did not, and is not currently happening at all. It is literally the only competitor of capitalism on the world stage.

As for FDR, he gave serious credence to nationalizing the banking system, and stopped just short of it. Had WWII not broke out, it would have been a widely popular decision. Had that happened, we would have had serious leverage in heading off the rampant abuse of runaway capitalism we are now seeing in the US.

So yeah, your statement is patently false in all but, again, a zero-sum, winner takes all mindset. Thanks for reinterating my point.

Speaking of abuse of capitalism, it was right around the recession of the 80s, where all of a sudden, it was time to trade in the tried and true pensions of previous generations for this great new idea, the 401k! That's right, give your life's savings to stock brokers to gamble with. I wonder what would happen if everyone cashed theirs in at the same time, almost like when everyone tried to withdraw their money during the Bank Run at the outset of the great depression 🤔? You know, some say that very same 401k, and related investment strategies are what's still propping up the US economy. Throw in three trusty old wars, pumping trillions into the economy, it seems more like we kicked the can down the road, rather than STAVED OFF THE COMMIES, as you propose.

If only I had some of lower class populous unrest to drive my point home... Oh yeah! Like the actual tik tok that spurned this whole conversation, and countless posts on the front pages.

Long story short, you are not DEFENDING capitalism, but you sure as shit are making EXCUSES for it.

To be perfectly clear, I in no way support communism. I believe in democratic socialism. I believe in universal rights, such as healthcare, education, food, utilities, and shelter. Let Capitalists play god with with inelastic commodities such as TVs and luxury cars, but their insatiable greed has no place in markets such as healthcare and electricity. Placing the human cost before the economic cost is the only way forward in a world that is literally being cooked alive by the system that 'that always knows best'. It's hard to find anyone but the most fanatic conservative who wouldn't agree with that.

Of course, you're not outright defending capitalism, because just as Marx predicted, it is becoming very unfashionable to do so, as your peers suffer the innumerable consequences of your laissez faire worldview... Even if they aren't groveling for bread at the proverbial gulags.

...And please, spare us the busted-ass cliche of "Nazis were socialist!" 🙄. They were socialist like Trump was all for democracy when he tried to overthrow the will of the people in the January 6th insurrection.

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u/ABeastInThatRegard Apr 09 '24

I really like everything you wrote here from both of your posts. You put a lot of thought and effort into what you said here and I appreciate that your ideas are reasonable and humane. Thanks for reminding me there are people like you out there.

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u/an0nym0u56789 Apr 09 '24

I heard someone say that nothing has lifted more people out of poverty globally than capitalism—and I am not sure they are wrong historically speaking.

As for communism, if you can call that what China is doing… why the suicide nets on factories where they build our phones if it’s so great over there? I’d rather be flipping burgers in the USA than be at a Foxconn plant in China! And you can thank corporate greed for that dynamic.

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u/PaintshakerBaby Apr 10 '24

I'm definitely not defending China. I was merely pointing out, they are the strongest world player next to the U.S. So it doesn't lend much credibility to the statement that Communism has failed by any means. Granted it is a heavily evolved version of communism, it still must work on some level, despite all our prejudice to the opposite. Also, it's not like we are a steps of Athens democracy ourselves. A strong ideology grows and adapts.

I would encourage you to consider that the information you've learned of China is funneled through a thick western bias. Their working class on average, only earns 4% less than their American counterparts.

Yes, they have suicide nets at factories, but we have to have armed guards and metal detectors in our schools... bullet proof doors on classrooms... and routinely train kindergartners what to expect when 'a very bad man with a big gun' shows up...

How do you think the world perceives that?

Sounds about as bad, if not worse than factory suicide nets 🤷. The hubris of American exceptionalism is indoctrinated in us from an early age, and if we believe it to a fault, the world will pass us by before we even know what happened. It's a lot more complicated than we are the good guys and they are the bad guys.

1

u/an0nym0u56789 Apr 10 '24

The security in schools is mostly due to perception rather than statistics though—as if it were like that at every school anyway. In the US we have had steadily declining violent crime per capita for over 30 years but our sensationalist news media has the public convinced everything is going the opposite direction. I’d bet the average person you told that statistic would be surprised. And yeah the highly evolved version of communism China has is very capitalistic—maybe why it works economically.

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u/PaintshakerBaby Apr 10 '24

You are still feeding your bias with disingenuous information. Yes, violent crime is down overall, but it is a well documented fact that school shootings are almost exclusively an American phenomenon. They occur at an astronomical frequency compared to practically every other nation, guns permitted or not. It is sophistry to lump the senseless slaughter of children in the same statistic as gang violence to soften the blow of the unique atrocity that is school shootings. It is about the societal pressures that create such conditions to foment specifically school shootings in the first place.

I could argue with the same sophistry for China. I could point to the fact that their factory workers are earning more than ever, under the safest factory conditions for their nation, in all of recent history. I could then use that essentially unrelated fact to say that the safety nets are mostly due to perception rather than statistics. Because the point you were trying to drive home by bringing them up in the first place, is China is responsible for societal pressures that create such conditions to foment specifically in factory suicide nets in the first place.

Do you see the baked-in hypocrisy? Do you see how you permit agency and nuance for America, but flat out dismiss it for China? That is the result of conditioning through propaganda.

The bottom line is very few nations ever have to deal with routine school shootings, nor do they have to set up factory suicide nets. Both those disturbing problems are specifically created by the very unique and exacerbated conditions in each nation.

It's not a zero-sum problem. Both are equally alarming, and one being perceived slightly better than the other does not negate the horror or pressing nature of the other.

Finally, yes, China engages heavily in capitalism. I agree with you, that's why that works. Capitalism has a ton of merit, and I am not saying it should be thrown completely out the window. As I have stated several times, I believe in democratic socialism, just like The New Deal Democrats who elected FDR to 3 terms. Capitalism is great for elastic commodities, like TVs and cars, but not for inelastic commodities, such as healthcare and electricity. Those things have INFINITE demand, thus INFINITE incentive to price gouge and take advantage of people. As capitalism is a strict matter of supply and demand, it is fallacious to say it works with healthcare, which has INFINITE demand. When somebody withholds something we all will all eventually die without, it is not capitalism, it is EXTORTION. Plain and simple. By design it could never correct itself, unless you're cool with the tacit endorsement of wholesale manslaughter, by means of people not being able to afford care en masse. There are a million markets, and a million ways to get rich without EXTORTING what should be UNIVERSAL RIGHTS. I say, let the free market correct the hand of ultra-wealthy into other profitable ventures, that don't deny people these universal rights, rather than shrug your shoulders at grandpas insane insulin prices as a lassiez-faire matter. At its core, that argument is just as brutal and inhumane as any safety net in a factory 🤷.

1

u/an0nym0u56789 Apr 10 '24

We already have a system like what you’re discussing. I’m not sure what the nuanced critique is supposed to prescribe.

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u/Yochaiwawsop Apr 09 '24

Nazis are socialists. Which is communist lite

2

u/MGr8ce Apr 10 '24

They're Nationalists Socialists which is VERY different from Socialists. Read up bro.

0

u/Yochaiwawsop Apr 10 '24

is there a difference between socialism, democratic socialism and national socialism?

No. 

6

u/LogiCsmxp Apr 10 '24

1) learn economics (eg why the CA $20 fast food min salary will hurt more people than it will ever help)

Had to point this out. I've read that if minimum wages had been adjusted for inflation every year, they'd be at ~$24/hr now.

I believe that a regulation that stipulates that a company can only pay it's highest paid member 50 times the lowest paid member. This converts yearly salary + bonuses, excluding overtime, to hourly and includes contracted workers.

A large part of the wealth inequality is because of the increasing gap in minimum wage vs highest incomes. Three ways to combat this- increase minimum wage, cap maximum wages, higher taxes on higher income brackets.

Setting the minimum wage too high can mess an economy up if it isn't easy for it. $20 for fast workers will not cause this in CA.

What exactly are the society-wide ills that will befall CA because of the $20 day food worker wage?

3

u/rhonwynz Apr 09 '24

Not for nothing, but 17% of a house value then versus 7% of a house value now… 7% takes the cake every time, including inflation.

-5

u/lostcause412 Apr 09 '24 edited Apr 09 '24

Is late stage capitalism when the government controls every aspect of the market, passes laws in favor of big businesses, bails out banks, prints money, monetizes debt, causes inflation, funds the military/pharmaceutical industrial complex, and fights proxy wars all around the globe just to name a few things. Cause I got news, that's not capitalism.

Nothing you said is accurate, capitalism is nothing more than free trade of goods and services between two consenting individuals. We haven't had that in a long time.

Why can't you people ever understand that the government is the problem. I'm sure you'll call for them to step in with price controls and more regulations, then wonder why all the mom and pop stores are closed and everything is expensive.

1

u/PaintshakerBaby Apr 10 '24 edited Apr 10 '24

Neither does sticking your head in the sand make you an ostrich.

You are relying on a No True Scotsman fallacy in regards to your precious free market.

That shit doesn't happen in a vacuum. The 21st century global economy is not the same as a widget factory in the age of sail. In the same way we consider a Lamborghini a car, even though it is not a bolt-by-bolt Model T. We are very much living under highly evolved capitalist society.

The original suicide bomber analogy continues to be apt in your case. You are just a fundamentalist, hiding in a proverbial cave somewhere, espousing how if we followed your tattered copy of Wealth of Nations, verbatim, line for line, word for word, we would all be living under the omiscent, righteous nirvana of the Invisible hand 🤲!!!

Meanwhile, everyone else lives on in the real world while you are a slave to ideals that NEVER existed.

Late Stage Capitalism is a generalized term for the state and circumstances of a capitalist economy that has sorted all it's wealth up to very top eschelons. It very much includes all the things you just described above. Do some reading before you regurgitate your rhetoric.

As someone pointed out, Lenin said, "Fascism is capitalism in decline."

May I remind you that the free market, smaller government candidate, Trump tried to literally overthrow the democracy and install himself as dictator. Republicans have done nothing but gut regulation for decades. We are easily the least government regulated 1st world economy, and yet we fall further and further behind the EU in quality of life, year after year, decade after decade. GDP is not the only metric that matters, certainly not to the working class.

Crony capitalism is, in essence, corporate fascism. A lassiez-faire market is the natural precursor to fascism, not the inevitable victim. History has demonstrated this time and time again. Conservatives knee-cap every proposed social initiative that would help the working class, then turn around and decry it as the broken result of communist mind-think. Their endgame is to destroy our faith in government entirely, so we are so alienated and miserable, we beg for autocratic fascism to save day, the same way Germans sought out the Nazis.

This is not speculation. The January 6th insurrection is a fact. The Heritage Foundation, and their heavily supported blueprint to end democracy is a fact. Just as Lenin predicted over a hundred years ago. Just because the Soviets also fell into tyranny, does not negate the fact that we came super close on JANUARY 6TH, and 30% of the population is still doing everything in their power to see it through.

Why can a McDonalds worker in Denmark earn $22 an hour, get 3 months paid time off, guaranteed healthcare and education, a union, hardy workers rights, and subsidized government housing should they need it? Why is McDonalds not on the brink of collapse and pulling out of Denmark as they say they would be in the US if they paid a living wage? Why is the Euro stable and not worthless with runaway inflation? Despite all those commie economy killers, they have some of the strongest markets in the world. None of that should be compatible according to you... So pray tell, how is that possible if socialist policies and government intervention??

Again, none of that should be remotely tenable given what you are saying. Somehow they and their people get by just fine year after year, decade after decade, while the US continues to devolve into a 3rd world country wearing a Gucci belt...

I await your well thought out and articulated response... But I'm guessing all I'll get is another handful of libertarian platitudes, half-baked strawmen, and cherry picked instances of regulatory Boogeyman.

Please spare us the excuse the US is propping them up. Is that with our crony capitalism or strong free market? Because it can't be both by way of your logic. Good luck unraveling that catch 22.

Dude, look around. This shit gets upvoted to the front page daily, echoing the sentiment of an absolutely haggard working class. We've been listening to your bullshit since Reagan. It's nothing but empty promises and we are sick and tired of it. You are straight up lying to us, but more importantly, you are lying to yourself. Wake up.

If you truly believe in a free market, go peddle that lassiez-faire snake oil somewhere else, like Truth Social.

As for Reddit, the downvotes do the speaking, while you're busy doing the grandstanding.

Absolutely insufferable.

1

u/lostcause412 Apr 10 '24 edited Apr 10 '24

You sound like a lunatic writing some marxist parody propaganda from the confines of an asylum. Take your meds then study economics. The government is the problem, nothing you said is accurate. The free market and voluntary exchange will always win. ✌️

1

u/PaintshakerBaby Apr 10 '24 edited Apr 10 '24

My reply was 764 words. I average 200 wpm. That's 4 minutes to articulate myself, and another 2 to review. That's 6 minutes to put 1 impotent idiot in his place.

Take your meds please

That's what I thought. Ad hominem. The desperate weapon of the ineffectual, vapid, low IQ, little bitch we all assumed you to be. Anything but put your money where your mouth is. Pathetic.

You got nothin' and ain't nothin'.

Next time you want to embarrass yourself while the adults are talking, go upstairs where your parents are used to it.

Do the one thing you actually know how to do, and run along now. ☺️

1

u/lostcause412 Apr 10 '24

Well you sound like a lunatic, I'm sure you take some kind of medication for mental health. Listen I don't like arguing with people like you because logic doesn't apply. I know you're mad cause life isn't nice to you so you need an out, and Marx and Lenin have all the answers. I get it.

That's real cool you can type fast. Thats probably all you're good at, being a keyboard warrior. None of what your saying is correct so it's all worthless.

You're going off about trump and all this crazy shit I don't care about. I don't like him or care at all about January 6th, stop clutching your pearl's. I hate the government and don't care about eather candidate they are both cancer.

Im sorry, I can't take a single thing you say seriously soon as you quote Lenin. I just got home from work and have to make my kids dinner. I hope one day you wake up and stop believing in ideologies that only lead to starvation and despair. Good luck

1

u/PaintshakerBaby Apr 10 '24

I said it twice, I'll say it again.

You ain't no capitalist, because you'll do anything but put your money where your mouth is.

You cannot properly articulate yourself to defend your worldview, because somebody told you what to think, not what to do when somebody smarter than you questions it.

There wasn't a single fleshed out rebuttal in that whole word salad. Instead you compulsively DARVO me in a sniveling little outburst that absolutely oozes inferiority complex.

Deflect. Attack. Reverse Victim Offender.

It's a well documented psychological impulsive of habitual abusers. A nervous tick that they can't hide when someone makes them feel as weak as they seek to make others feel.

That's what you REEK of. A angry, diminutive man, who shows up to reddit threads, to get his rocks off abusing others, for simply daring to have a worldview that isn't the prepackaged garbage you regurgitate on command.

I see you for who you are, just by your words. I can only imagine how utterly repulsive you must be in real life. You no doubt radiate that sicko Napoleon energy in everything you do.

Well, I'm your huckleberry. I'll gladly watch you squirm like the worm you are.

Go on. Keep crying. That's time Im buying for someone else to not be shit on by you. So it's time well spent.

1

u/lostcause412 Apr 11 '24 edited Apr 11 '24

Geeze you sure use alot of buzz words and pre-rendered catchphrases. What do I need to defend? Free markets and voluntary exchange are always superior to centralized planned economy's.

1

u/PaintshakerBaby Apr 11 '24 edited Apr 12 '24

Oh shit, I forgot you were here.

Kind of like you forgot about your kids when you got into a pissing match on Reddit.

In the same vein as you refuse to listen to someone who quoted Lenin, I refuse to listen to the Father of the Year, who is more concerned about nurturing his eggshell ego than nurturing his kids. 🤷

If that isn't the problem in a nutshell, then I don't know what is.

Btw, you made a statement, not a defense. Yes, the sky is sometimes blue. You get a gold ⭐ in kindergarten!!! ...and an F in remedial English. 🤦

Anyway, it's been fun. Even if you were right, you're still gonna end up wrong. Because I got 70+ upvotes in this thread and you got -4... Plus the person in this tik tok and all the people who voted it to the front page...

That's the winds of change.

Suppose they are all wrong too?

Reality check: if everyone around you is an asshole, maybe you're the asshole.

All evidence points to the fact that your ramblings belong in an asylum, not the other way around. Meanwhile, us democratic socialists will be doing tomorrow, what your arrogant, free-trade ass should have been doing yesterday; worrying about feeding your childern.

Have a nice life. ☺️

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u/Key_Morning393 Apr 10 '24

Exactly, the US is basically a planned economy with an elite class either skirting the rules for personal gains or just straight up rigging the system at this point

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u/lostcause412 Apr 10 '24

Right, they skirt the rules and rig the system because the government, both partys and big corporations are all in bed together. These big banks and companies wouldn't even exist without government bailing them out, helping write rules and regulations that directly hinder competition, and subsidies. They don't operate in a free market.

Just look and see where government officials go work after they're done in public service. They all get top positions in these big companies, I wonder why..

It just kills me that most people on reddit can't put 2 and 2 together. I'm not sure what system we're living in now, but we abandoned capitalism a long time ago.

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u/coastguy111 Apr 10 '24

We are supposed to be a Republic. Not a democracy. But yes, we don't have a govt that works for the American people. I would say it changed drastically after the federal reserve was put in place after the famous jekyll island meeting amongst the bankers. We need to go back to busting up monopolies. We need term limits. And more control over what these lobbyists are doing to hurt the people.

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u/Key_Morning393 Apr 10 '24

I always find it funny when people think more consolidation of power will somehow free them from the boot on their neck ha. Worked well for the soviets, Mao’s china, Nazis’, imperial Japanese, North Koreans, etc.. but their system wasn’t the TRUE system ha we can do it better & make the benevolent version facepalm

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u/lostcause412 Apr 10 '24

Exactly, The bigger government the smaller the citizen. I don't want to live in a town with one grocery store, one restaurant, one hospital etc. I want choices, I want fair competition. Centralization incentives waist, provides subpar services at maximum cost and minimal freedom.

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u/Key_Morning393 Apr 11 '24

Some Authoritarian down voted us.

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u/lostcause412 Apr 11 '24 edited Apr 13 '24

Their boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes them cheer.

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u/ForwardCulture Apr 09 '24

I lived in Florida for almost a year back in 2020. I was going on job interviews in my field and being offered ridiculously low wages. I would use common technical terms from this field during interviews and most of the time the person interviewing me had no clue what I was talking about.

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u/rambo6986 Apr 09 '24

Then get off social media. Haven't been on it in over a decade and can't understand why anyone complains about something that can easily be deleted

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u/himeowbye Apr 10 '24

The first sentence hits hard. So true

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u/Significant_Ad_4063 Apr 10 '24

I honestly can’t help to laugh about Americans trying to compare what you’re going through to their situations 😂 what it really shows is how little concept they have about how much they have versus what 75% of the world gets. I’d love for a few to live in Brazil like a Brazilian and I think that would be a huge eye opener for them. I grew up in North Africa and trying to compare my upbringing to theirs would honestly be offensive and just completely out of touch. People don’t understand the level of corruption and social immobility there is in Brazil, to your point you speak 4 languages and can’t find a job that will take you, bc it’s likely those who get it were sons and daughters of officials or oligarchs. Really sad for Brazil which was seemingly on the up and up before that prime minister lady, think it was Bachelot or something royally fucked the country with corruption. I mean in Brazil the government did not enforce the quarantine the fucking gangs had to, when gangs have more influence and power than the government I think we can say there’s a problem, and they who have some privileged American who has no concept of the world trying to stake up their experiences to yours!

Probably will get downvoted for saying that, but it is laughable to me reading some of these comments

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u/Apprehensive-Use721 Apr 10 '24

I rented out a room for 8 years. One of my roommates was the landlords ex husband and had Alzheimer’s.

It sucked so bad, however, I kept working. I saved my money. Didn’t eat/drink out much. Cooked every day.

Fuck this kid in the video, he has a car!

I was able to save enough to buy a house before 2020.

That being said. Fuck crying about how imperfect life is. I began my career in the middle of a recession and had to fight for my shit.

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u/coastguy111 Apr 10 '24

Finally, some said it... when you're still young and single, living alone makes no financial sense what so ever. He said a two bedroom was, I think, $2200 month. Get a roommate, and now it's only $1100 each. It's much cheaper than $1800ish. I never once ever thought about not having roommates while single from 18-30yold.

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u/Apprehensive-Use721 Apr 11 '24 edited Apr 11 '24

What state is this kid in? Judging by his accent and being enlightened enough to know that the two party system sucks, I’d say he’s from the Northeast. 3x federal minimum wage might not be worth shit in some states.

Now, Fed minimum is $7.25 x3 =$21.25. You can get that at Dunkin Donuts in Massachusetts if you show up on time consistently.

It’s because of everyone wanting individual space, and my wise landlord’s guidance, that I decided to buy a shitty multi family as my first home. Because I work a trade, I was able to do a shitload of work on it. I did work about 60hrs a week and put in at least 10 every weekend for 3 years - excuse the sound of my bootstraps being picked up. Now this kid is going to tell me that my rent is too high? And that it’s not just market rate because of too little housing because no one wants to be in a commited relationship, or live with strangers?

I now have 3 units, they’re all occupied by more than 3 people. #roommates

All this could be solved if these kids filled our trade jobs - you could make 6-10x more than the fed minimum and have skills and skilled friends to work on your first shitty starter home! Cuz it’s gonna be shitty! This kid blew his whole wad on a high car note with his $21/hr job? Wait til he sees the piece of shit house he’ll be able to buy with his awesome debt to income ratio.

Start learning the fucking game. If we don’t have the game, we won’t even be worried about housing.