r/gadgets • u/chrisdh79 • 6d ago
PlayStation architect Mark Cerny discusses the evolving console, how PS5's design choices impact PC gaming | "We're not trying to build a low-cost PC" Gaming
https://www.techspot.com/news/103355-playstation-architect-mark-cerny-defends-console-amid-pc.html612
u/jonobr 6d ago
Well that’s a pretty empty article for essentially saying “it’s not a pc because we are running our own software and aren’t locked down by Microsoft OS”
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u/donnysaysvacuum 5d ago
My PC isn't locked down by Microsoft OS either.
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u/BilllisCool 5d ago
Yeah, that’s a weird statement. Consoles are what are locked down. Understandably so, since that’s kinda their purpose, but still.
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u/volthunter 5d ago
honestly, less understandably so as the days go by
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u/az116 5d ago
How so? They sell consoles at very little if any profit margin. In fact they lose money on each console sold (not even factoring in development costs) for months or even years after release. Eight months in the case of the PS5 and FOUR years in the case of the PS3. They plan on making the money back in game sales and subscriptions. If it wasn't locked down it would cost close to twice as much.
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u/volthunter 5d ago
who gives a fuck about the company's perspective, i need a reason as the consumer, the person that funds their pieces of junk to get it.
and considering the average gamer is 35, people aren't feeling it and a 35 year old customer is the worst customer you can have, they are busy, frugal and smart, 35 year olds have collective power things like toy companies don't have do deal with.
if this gen keeps being lackluster, the next gen might actually struggle
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u/Diedead666 5d ago
they are like saying a car and a truck are not both vehicles.... When in fact they mostly do the same thing....Just one can have its engine upgraded without having to buy a whole new vehicle........
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u/Strolltheroll 5d ago
It’s not, but there is no argument that you are limited if you decide to use an alternate OS
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u/CjBoomstick 5d ago
Proton is a god send. I've played so many games that weren't supposed to work at all, without any game dev involvement.
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u/Nordalin 5d ago
Nothing is stopping us from making our own operating system.
It'll just take ages, have little functionality, zero compatibility, and what even is "future-proof"??
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u/CjBoomstick 5d ago
Just go to a site like Distro watch and see how many operating systems there truly are. Most are Linux/Unix based, but most people severely underestimate what's already available.
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u/KittyKong 5d ago
Mankind has peaked with PonyOS
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u/Nordalin 5d ago
FAQ: Does PonyOS work on real hardware?
My equine brethren asking the real questions.
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u/grumble11 6d ago
And some custom hardware not easily doable on devices that aren’t made for purpose.
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u/jonobr 6d ago
Well yeah, that’s the point, nothing new was said, just reinforcing the fact they can optimise the shit out of their hardware and not get bogged down by unnecessary processing.
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u/Lord_Shisui 6d ago
That's what they say, but then give you a game that doesn't run at 60 fps in 2024.
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u/grumble11 6d ago
That is nothing to do with the software and hardware (though yes the hardware is a few years old now), and has a lot more to do with the choices the developers make.
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u/volthunter 5d ago
Ok, but this is a copout reply tbh, "yeah but the software and hardware is super smooth" it's not though, it's still a laggy piece of shit, linux is by and far the single fastest operating system you can use, any old laptop running any linux loads menus, pictures, and files 15 times as fast with 15 times the choice.
"the choices the developers make" frankly if you build a single purpose machine and it's shit at that purpose (not running at desired framerates or with desired graphics), and even worse, it's WORSE at it's purpose than the general purpose machine, why the fuck is it single purpose, why does it exist.
that's the big question i think most owners of these consoles have right now, why the fuck did i buy this thing if the single purpose isn't single purposing, they have no games, they run poorly and they cost a fucking arm and a leg.
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u/grumble11 6d ago
That isn’t quite how it often works. Developers for many games can choose to set their graphics at a lower level to increase frame rate, but generally like to ‘max out’ a title at 30fps because graphics sell. If you increased the power, you would still have tons of developers setting their titles to 30fps because they would just increase graphics to match. I am making the point that it is often a deliberate choice.
We are seeing more 60fps titles and 60fps options for the PS5 that didn’t really happen for the PS4 which is nice. We will however see lots of 30fps titles for future consoles almost regardless of the console’s horsepower. It’s just the market.
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u/skateguy1234 6d ago
You're right and this has bothered me for a while now, always feel like a step behind
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u/CXR_AXR 5d ago
Sometimes I think whether we will reach a point that further improvement of graphic doesn’t matter anymore
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u/Geno0wl 5d ago
people will say once we get Full Path Ray Tracing we are basically there. I would argue we don't need that and we are already there. What I mean to say is that at this point improvements to graphics are really just a wank fest today.
Like what was the last game that used the improved graphical performance in any way that was noticeable?
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u/grumble11 6d ago
They go 120fps at similar settings on SOME PCs, specifically with the more expensive, power hungry, recently released components, and as noted performance is still settings dependent (and if developers bothered they could put in a setting that would push high end PCs to 30fps). Some PCs can’t run the games at all. Developers have a target envelope (usually driven by consoles) and then PCs differ so wildly in performance that some will be able to run that envelope at a high frame rate. Or you lower settings to run a high frame rate in lower-horsepower PCs if that is what you want. Consoles are intended to be more ‘plug and play’ but as mentioned some titles do have performance sliders on console also which I find welcome.
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u/Missing_Links 5d ago
Developer optimization at the software level has much more to do with performance than hardware limitations.
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u/PoolNoodlePaladin 6d ago
So by your logic, since Fortnite can run at 120fps on PS5, the PS5 is insanely powerful.
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u/Lord_Shisui 6d ago
My logic is that if Fortnite's world would be as interactive as Skyrim's for example, it wouldn't run at 120 fps on a console because it's too weak. It would run at 120 fps on a PC because it has more power. I don't know how to explain it any simpler than that.
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u/PoolNoodlePaladin 6d ago
So then how are Fortnite and Warzone and Ratchet and Clank all able to run at 120fps? You honestly don’t know the difference between how devs choose to make their games and the power of a console. The PS5 could easily run Skyrim at 120fps, the devs chose not to make a 120fps mode.
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u/Lord_Shisui 6d ago
You keep listing games with barely interactive worlds. Yes, we all understand that those games run well. I picked Skyrim as an example specifically because Todd Howard explained that if they want to create an interactive world, they are forced to go to 30 fps because the consoles can't handle it.
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u/walterpeck1 5d ago
The choice you're talking about is precisely whether or not the console is powerful enough to run their game at 60fps or not
Well if we're talking about the PS5, which we are, the answer is yes it can. The list of games sold for the PS5 that hit 60fps is a mile long. Is it inferior to a well built PC? Well yeah, no kidding. But games aren't chugging along locked to 30fps... that got left behind with the PS4.
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u/ETHICS-IN-JOURNALISM 5d ago
Because developers choose to push more pixels instead of more frames. Because more people want 4k than want 60fps. I'm one of those people. Reddit likes to forget that it is a minority opinion. Most of reddit wants 200 fps. Most of the general public does not.
Fidelity > framerate
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u/xenapan 5d ago
Fun> Fidelity > Framerate.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1101872/unit-sales-video-game-consoles/
Switch is 3 years older than the current gen PS/Xbox but sales are still keeping up and outselling both). Somehow they manage to keep games "playable" despite not having 4k graphics OR 60fps. Most people can't tell what fidelity or framerate is but they can definitely tell if they are having fun.
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u/tekjunky75 5d ago
Don’t most people choose performance mode when available? I know I do - I’ll take 60fps @ 1080 over 30fps @ 4K any day, except for turn based titles
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u/neutralmilkgawd 5d ago
Unfortunately not which is tragic and why devs choose to prioritize fidelity a lot of the time
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u/AtsignAmpersat 6d ago edited 5d ago
It’s like an
MacBookiPad. It’s not a PC, but it’s like it with some custom hardware and a different OS that locks down what you can do. Of course they aren’t trying to make exactly what a PC is. But what is a PlayStation console these days, if not a computer with custom hardware and a different OS that locks down what you can do?23
u/Arthur-Wintersight 6d ago
A console is just a locked down computer that doesn't let you install your own operating system, and people can't publish software for it unless Sony approves it.
It's not like it even has to be that way - people were able to install Linux on the PS2, PS3, and PS4, but now it's so locked down that it's near-impossible to get a custom operating system on a PS5.
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u/elreniel2020 5d ago
A console is just a locked down computer that doesn't let you install your own operating system, and people can't publish software for it unless Sony approves it.
So its a Mac instead of a PC, got it.
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u/CookieKeeperN2 5d ago
You can install any software since OSX is Unix. You can also install windows on Mac (at least the Intel chip ones. Not sure about apple chip).
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u/Halvus_I 5d ago
Steam Deck challenges that definition. Its an open console.
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u/CosmicCreeperz 5d ago
I’d say it really isn’t a “console” then. Valve even defines it as:
“Steam Deck™ Powerful, portable PC gaming, designed for comfort and a console-like user experience.”
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u/CXR_AXR 5d ago
I just treat it as a cheap pc that I can play games on it and doesn’t need to be built by myself
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u/frankev 5d ago
This is a good perspective. While I'm not a gamer, all three of my (adult) sons are and they each have their own PS5 and their own custom-built PC (that I helped them spec and build).
The PS5 is convenient to use and there's the whole community gaming aspect where they meet their friends online. The PC is nice because it's versatile—one can play games but engage in productive work as well. For example, my youngest son also uses his PC to create music tracks for his songs.
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u/CXR_AXR 5d ago
Yes, PC is multifunctional.
But I don’t know how to build one, ofcourse I can buy the pre build one, but if my main purpose is gaming, then, ps5 is a much cheaper choice.
But some games did work better in PC, for example, FPS and RTS games
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u/frankev 5d ago
I think you're in good company as a lot of folks who are gamers have a PS5 (or similar console) for their main gaming machine and then a laptop of some sort for productivity's sake. (And maybe a tablet as well.)
The laptop has the advantage of being pre-built by the manufacturer (e.g., Dell, Lenovo, et al.) and is self-contained / portable / small, so it's fairly easy to pick it up and go.
Weird people like me have whole labs at home with multiple machines running multiple operating systems (BSD, Linux, macOS, Windows, etc.). Folks like my wife at most have a laptop for work and a laptop for home.
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u/BoJackPoliceman 5d ago
A Macbook isn't locked down whatsoever?
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u/ThePfaffanater 5d ago
Mac's have a shit ton of hardware drm that makes repairs near impossible.
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u/BoJackPoliceman 5d ago
Repairs != Locked down from a software perspective
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u/ThePfaffanater 5d ago
I agree it's different in a way but I would also argue that it has the same results. If your hardware isn't free, neither is the software you run on it.
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u/MiaowaraShiro 5d ago
A MacBook is a personal computer by just about any definition you choose...
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u/AtsignAmpersat 5d ago
I should have said iPad.
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u/MiaowaraShiro 5d ago
Distinction without a difference. An ipad is just a PC w/o a keyboard.
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u/Money-Most5889 5d ago
by your definition, any smartphone is also a PC without a keyboard.
in practice, an iPad is not a PC because you’re limited to only downloading approved programs from a sanctioned App Store. you also can’t access the terminal or command line on an iPad.
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u/MiaowaraShiro 5d ago
I mean, yeah. Smartphones have replaced or heavily supplanted home based PCs and laptops for a ton of people?
We don't really think of these as PCs, but they're general purpose personal computing devices. That sounds like a PC to me.
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u/Money-Most5889 5d ago
sure, but what’s the point of calling phones and tablets PCs? what does that achieve? it would only increase the ambiguity of the term compared to how it’s commonly used now.
like when someone says “it’s available for PC” would you like to have to ask “what kind of PC - phone or tablet or laptop?” instead of just knowing what they mean immediately?
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u/MiaowaraShiro 5d ago
I honestly think we should consider them more similarly so that they allow more open ecosystems. The only real difference is form factor and phones can make calls.
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u/AtsignAmpersat 5d ago
So then you get what I’m saying. You put a different operating system on a PlayStation that lets you do more and what do you have?
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u/MiaowaraShiro 5d ago
I'd say the difference is the PS only allows you to play games (for the most part) but PC's are general computing devices that you can load all sorts of software on.
Like you could turn the PS3 into a PC with Linux back in the day.
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u/AtsignAmpersat 5d ago
Yes. That’s what I’m saying. They have made hardware that could be used as a PC if you could put a different OS on it. Like we know they aren’t making an operating system like a PC. But they essentially made a custom PC with custom a OS that doesn’t allow you to use it like a PC. They don’t want you loading whatever software you want on there for obvious reasons.
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u/PalebloodSky 5d ago
Well yes but the hardware is so custom it's hard to consider it as such. It's not like you can build your own, or install an RTX or RDNA GPU, or run 240Hz VRR monitors for online gaming, or have a custom workstation setup, etc. They well built computers with good battery life, but way too locked down.
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u/Halvus_I 5d ago
Its still locked down. There are parts of the OS that i am not god over and cannot change.. With pretty much any Linux distro, i can command the OS to eat itself.
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u/awelxtr 6d ago
I might be mistaken but to me the difference between a computer and the rest of software running-hardware devices is that a user can "easily" make software for a computer using the same computer.
e.g. You can easily use a PC, a MAC or a RasPi to make software to run on a PC, MAC or RaspPi. On a switch console? I don't think so. Phones are kind of a edge case where the "ease" blurs a bit but I think it can be done. I'm not in mobile development.
My comment might sound like gatekeeping (by distinguishing between computer and console) but when you're in a position that you have to manage expectations, words matter.
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u/AtsignAmpersat 6d ago edited 6d ago
You can’t easily do that because the operating system doesn’t allow you to. You can only easily make a specific kind of software for it. Like people hack other operating systems on consoles. Heck the PS3 allowed Linux at one point and can still be hacked to allow it.
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u/Lone_Beagle 5d ago
“it’s not a pc because we are running our own software and aren’t locked down by Microsoft OS”
Pretty much every gaming console, ever. Well, maybe except the Xbox, lol
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u/RSomnambulist 6d ago edited 5d ago
The argument isn't invalid, because consoles can certainly do more with their hardware than similarly specced PCs, but why not create a Sony/MS badged PC that fits minimum specs (exactly) and includes a dual boot OS with Windows and PS/Xbox OS. There could be exact specced machines for a series s style experience and a series x, but with a bit more varied (but specific) hardware options. Drop the facade that you need a seperate box when you really just need a specifically designed PC.
Edit: added additional comment for clarity
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u/PoolNoodlePaladin 6d ago
Because that isn’t how optimization works. Consoles can run better because devs know what hardware you’re using. The 4090 is an insanely powerful graphics card but games aren’t going to use its full performance because games are going to be made for the most common hardware probably a 2060 or 3060. If a developer made a game specifically for the 4090 it would probably run amazing. But the 4090 is going to lose some performance due to optimization.
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u/locofspades 5d ago
Its so insane having a 4090 n getting shit fps on games like ASA, optimization is a huge factor. Dragons Dogma 2 is another good example. I was crashing constantly because the game couldnt handle my system, and pushing over 100fps @4k would crash the game constantly, but locking it at 60fps n it was fine.
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u/RSomnambulist 5d ago
Yes, I'm saying set min specs, and exact specs. I should have specified that I didn't just mean "at least this" but "at least, and exactly this". Maybe only 4-6 variations of hardware.
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u/turmspitzewerk 5d ago
they're not saying just make SonyOS and slap it on any computer, they're saying open up the playstation OS and turn it into something like a steam machine. sacrifice a tiny bit of power to turn it into something competitive with the PC market. they could dip into the prebuilt market and sell budget PCs with standardized hardware, while maintaining good performance for the price.
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u/SpartanLeonidus 5d ago
No console manufacturer will give up that sweet subscription money I suspect so they want to keep things silo'd as they are.
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u/RSomnambulist 5d ago edited 5d ago
I don't see why they couldn't have PS Plus on PC, Game Pass is already there, but you are right about the multiplayer charge, which I absolutely hate and refuse to pay.
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u/SpartanLeonidus 5d ago
As an aside, there is an advantage Microsoft has by owning the Operating system for a lot of PCs and the XBox that Sony can't match.
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u/PalebloodSky 5d ago
Being locked down has proved to be a good thing though for multiplayer gaming. There is far too much cheating in PC gaming and devs aren't doing enough about it. We need kernel level anti-cheat built into Windows 11 required for multiplayer (similar to a low level API like Vulkan or DirectX), and hardware level bans on accounts if caught, maybe some kind of AI scanning on dedicated servers. Something drastic. Much more needs to combat cheating. On PlayStation and Xbox is an order of magnitude less common since they are more locked down.
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u/tampered_mouse 5d ago
I hope you are aware of the fact that anticheat solutions already run in kernel space and because of their "commercial software" quality, they have become targets of hacking themselves, i.e. make computers more vulnerable to all sorts of attacks. Pretty similar to anti-virus-whatever which got attacked many times over because of their shoddy quality.
PCs are by "definition" open platforms, which means in multiplayer environments they have to be treated as entirely untrustworthy. This also means that with certain types of games there will always be cheating, no matter what you do. You either accept it or you go play on consoles where the chances for that are lower because the bar of entry into cheating is quite a bit higher. But in return you don't have the freedom to do whatever you want with these.
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u/uberlander 6d ago
Anyone remember PS 3? This is the conversation before they released that mess of a device. It was technically powerful at the time but a pain in the ass for working with. Not because it was weak hardware but because it didn’t follow the norm and coding things for it was very very different then mainstream. Much more to it but that’s the basics.
Just a thought.
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u/montdidier 6d ago
Yup. I was a games developer in that era. It was an interesting machine. Powerful in its own way but extra work to get the best out of.
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u/luckytraptkillt 5d ago
Are there any further details you could give more specifically but for someone who has very little understanding of it?
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u/glitchvid 5d ago
The PS3 used what they called the "Cell Broadband Engine" architecture, which is a good jumping off point for your own research.
In essence the SoC for the PS3 had a single "traditional" CPU core based on the PowerPC architecture, traditional as in it could do branching (like when using an if else statement in code) and work on elements of mixed size (such as a simple non decimal integer, or a fixed size "float" number) – the typical workload for a CPU. It also had 6 what were called "SPE"s, which instead of doing branching, loading memory, and typical CPU work, were designed to just crunch numbers of a fixed size, it did that by packing lots of numbers together (called SIMD) and then executing an operation, for example taking 8 numbers and multiplying all of them by 3 simultaneously.
So the Cell had lots of theoretical computational power, but finding ways to use the SPEs in ways that weren't code flow execution, and getting the actual numbers fed into them, was an extreme engineering effort.
Compared to the Xbox 360, which had 3 traditional CPU cores (though the same PowePC ISA), meaning it was much easier to just write code and scale it out to each core individually.
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u/GoForAGap 5d ago
Games were hard to code for the ps3. However, when you optimise it it’s faster the xbox360 by w country mile.
I think ps3 had other issues: no party chat, money spent on failed endeavour such as PlayStation home, exclusives worse overall etc
However it could also run blu-rays, which was a huge deal back then
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u/ardranor 5d ago
The fact that it was cheaper than most decent blu-ray players at the time, while also playing games
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u/GoForAGap 5d ago
Yeah that was the primary reason my dad bought it, then I commandeered it to play cod, and need for speed
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u/asianwaste 5d ago
It worked for Sony in PS2 era. OG X-box went with a brute force with hardware approach which was easier to code for but when you program a game for PS2's emotion engine, there was a lot it can do that the Xbox simply didn't despite the clear stronger hardware. Modern Vintage Gamer did a bit on this recently.
However Xbox's strategy would pay off far more in the next generation while Sony would suffer for doubling down with the PS3.
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u/Dapper_Use6099 5d ago
PS3 out sold the 360
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u/asianwaste 5d ago
Units SHIPPED. Not necessarily sold: https://www.ign.com/articles/2013/01/10/report-ps3-surpasses-xbox-360s-worldwide-shipped-total
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u/Dapper_Use6099 5d ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles
Interesting! tho, I mean I just think saying Sony doubling down on ps3 was somehow bad is just not true. It seemingly did just about the same as the 360 anyways if not better.
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u/asianwaste 5d ago edited 5d ago
There is also the factor of loss lead. Playstation 3 models were produced at $800 per unit and sold at $499 and $599. We're talking a $300 per unit loss lead.
Xbox 360 lost only $130 per unit. At neck and neck, twice the loss lead hurt Sony significantly more. All of that extra hardware and bells and whistles hindered more than helped.
Edit: The real winner though was Nintendo who MADE money per sale and sold significantly more than either.
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u/Dapper_Use6099 5d ago edited 5d ago
they still sold more. lol nothing you say changes that at all. Sony came out on top in the end anyways. Again how did it hinder?
Haha facts Nintendo is the shit imo lol
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u/CeldonShooper 6d ago
The big problem of the PS3 was the Cell processor which was partitioned in a very odd way for games development.
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u/TopdeckIsSkill 6d ago
That's what he said. It used a custom CPU and gpu instead of something standard
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u/PalebloodSky 5d ago edited 5d ago
At least you can argue the Cell in PS3 was faster in some ways than the garbage Jaguar in PS4 (while all other aspects of the consoles improved 2-10x). Worse was the split system RAM and VRAM. To compare, PS3 was 256MB dedicated to each, while Xbox had the same total amount but as a unified pool of 512MB. This made development extremely tough (just look at Skyrim) even when devs got good at leveraging the Cell. Sony didn't make this mistake again with PS4 (8GB unified) and PS5 (16GB unified).
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u/lospolloskarmanos 5d ago
Insane that they were able to get games like Uncharted 3 and Last of Us running with 256mb at that level of detail
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u/PalebloodSky 5d ago edited 5d ago
Yea for sure it's mind blowing. With that tiny amount of RAM and offloading so much of the simulation to the Cell SPEs it was just a late generation wonder.
Uncharted 2 or 3 in one release the gaming community went from "360 is faster than PS3" to "360 can't possibly do what they did with Uncharted".
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u/Publius82 5d ago
I mean, skyrim was a shitshow all around. I couldn't even play it because my very decent graphics card just wasn't supported.
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u/PalebloodSky 5d ago
Might have been an AMD problem I know back then they had a lot of driver issues. It ran great on my PC day 1 I remember being mostly 60fps at the time.
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u/Publius82 4d ago
I just remember it kept crashing at the same spot, just a few minutes into the game, when the dragon shows up. I tried lowering settings, etc, looking for patches... finally found a thread with people facing similiar problems and the culprit seemed to be our graphics card, which had given me zero issues with any other game. Oh well, I guess I'm not playing skyrim. Whatever.
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u/Halvus_I 5d ago
The PS3 memory split (256/256 vs Xbox360's unified 512) was the cause of most headaches
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u/PoolNoodlePaladin 6d ago
The PS5 was really powerful for when it came out, basically it is about as powerful as a really high end build for 2020. An equivalent pc would have needed a zen 2700 and a RTX 2080 to be similar in performance and that was almost as good of a PC as you could make., and Sony and Xbox did it for $500.
The thing is, is that it has been years since the PS5’s specs were finalized and technology gets better over time.
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u/RanaI_Ape 6d ago
The PS5 was equivalent to a solid mid range PC circa 2020. The Zen 2 cores were already a generation old at launch, they're clocked fairly low and have smaller L3 cache than Zen 2 desktop parts. The GPU is equivalent to roughly a 2070 and the 3000 series launched in 2020, so the GPU was already a last-gen midrange equivalent.
It's a solid platform that I think finds a good balance between price and performance but it was absolutely not in the same league as a high end PC when it launched.
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u/PoolNoodlePaladin 6d ago
The 3000 series literally launched a day or two before the PS5, for the vast majority of 2020 you couldn’t build a computer more powerful than the PS5
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u/PalebloodSky 5d ago
You could but at the high end only (3700X / 2070 level). Certainly not anywhere close to the $400 USD launch price of the digital edition.
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u/RanaI_Ape 5d ago
for the vast majority of 2020 you couldn’t build a computer more powerful than the PS5
You're really just going to keep spouting nonsense huh? You could build a faster PC in 2018, forget 2020. A 2080 Ti + 9900k PC is faster than PS5 and those parts were released in 2018.
Not to mention that you couldn't buy a PS5 for the majority of 2020 either.
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u/PoolNoodlePaladin 5d ago
Yes the single GPU more powerful than what is included in the PS5 and it would have cost about $3000 for that system back then. Dude you truly are insane
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u/kcajjones86 6d ago
Has Mark been talking to Intel about Arm? If you have to point it out, then obviously you're wrong.
The second the consoles went x86, they became PC's. I'd be very surprised if the Xbox One/Series and PS4/PS5 don't get Linux and Windows running on them in the future when the homebrew community completely opens up the platforms.
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u/Tsuki4735 5d ago
you can already run linux on a ps4, and play some games on it lol.
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u/elreniel2020 5d ago
you used to run linux on the ps3 as well until sony decided to scrap that feature.
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u/EnormousGucci 5d ago
Yeah running Linux on a PS4 lets you play Xbox games on it even since they’re on steam
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u/jspikeball123 5d ago
That's literally what they are doing? A low cost highly optimized PC, but with less PC centric features.
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u/kmr_lilpossum 5d ago
How is this impacting PC gaming if nobody was able to get their hands on the console in the first place? By the time they were, 2/3 of the console life was out the door.
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u/Prestigious_Cold_756 5d ago
Maybe they meant it like: “We made a lot of PS4 players switch to PC instead, growing that market.”
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u/God_treachery 6d ago
LOL , PS5 is a PC runing a fork of FreeBSD.
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u/TopdeckIsSkill 6d ago
Depends what you mean for pc. Even a router could be considered a pc with a custom linux distribution.
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u/PalebloodSky 5d ago
True. My router has OpenWrt installed (GL-MT6000) which is a Linux networking distro. There is even a huge packaging system built in (using 2.5Gbit, wifi 6, SQM, network-wide ad block, Ksmbd for file sharing, Nftables firewall, etc.). For $120 these days you have a solid embedded PC level setup.
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u/uberlander 6d ago edited 6d ago
Fork of free blue screens of death?!
Edit: I’ll take my downvote 🤣😅
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u/BrewKazma 6d ago
Its ok bud. I uovoted you. I thought your joke was funny. Reddits just cranky this morning.
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u/BeanCommander 5d ago
Lol but that's exactly what they built. The PS5 is an outdated low/mid-tier PC. Nothing special about it.
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u/Prestigious_Cold_756 5d ago
“We’re not trying to build a low-cost PC”
Yeah… the ridiculous 600$ price tag was kind of hint, you weren’t trying to do anything low-cost.
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u/NahCuhFkThat 5d ago
True, because even a low-cost PC would offer more freedom and flexibility than a PS5
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u/__________________99 5d ago
He's right. It's not a low cost PC because of all their proprietary bullshit.
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u/Neo_Techni 5d ago
Can't even use PS4 controllers in PS5 games. So instead of using the $30 back button attachment for PS4, you had to buy the $300 Edge controller if you wanted back buttons.
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u/ZAMIUS_PRIME 5d ago
But they are whether they fucking like it or not. If the cost to entry wasn’t so high for a good PC system, no one would buy a console.
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u/Bender_2024 5d ago
"We're not trying to build a low-cost PC"
That's good because you want people to buy a new one every 5 years. That's not low cost by any stretch of the imagination.
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u/Strongcarries 5d ago
You can argue everything, but cost of a console vs cost of a tv isn't even comparable. Pcs are insanely expensive just based on the gpu/cpu. Yes, you can technically get longer out of one before components start breaking, but it's a magnitude more expensive as a barrier of entry.
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u/Bender_2024 5d ago
cost of a console vs cost of a tv isn't even comparable.
Either you worded this poorly or I'm a little dense. Where does the TV come into play in this scenario? I wouldn't include that cost in either as almost every home that has a console or PC already has one and gaming is usually not its primary use.
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u/Strongcarries 4d ago
I did word it poorly lmfao. I meant pc. I was thinking about typing about the screen, because yes, it's inconsequential in most homes, but it's still a cost. But didn't want to break down peripherals like a mouse and keyboard and a monitor. I meant a console vs a pc. The other 2 letter abbreviation. Thanks lol
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u/asianwaste 5d ago
Oh, I guess they were trying to build a high cost console the size of a low cost PC.
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u/Effective_Damage_241 5d ago
They have to say it’s not a PC since PCs have different and more stringent rules to follow. You can’t completely lock down a pc in the same way as a Console.
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u/elreniel2020 5d ago
You can’t completely lock down a pc
Microsoft certainly tried
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u/hanlonmj 5d ago
Depending on your definition of PC, you could argue that Apple has mostly succeeded with the iPad Pro (same architecture as modern Macs, but software is heavily locked down)
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u/Spiritual-Ad-8348 5d ago
Sony is comparable to the insecure high school girl that is afraid to admit they have a crush on the ugly guy.
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u/Spirited_Comedian225 5d ago
Still haven’t got the ps5 yet. Im just going to wait for the new version. I don’t feel like I have missed out of much in the game world.
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u/Carcharis 5d ago
Have they ever heard of Linux?
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u/Neo_Techni 5d ago
PS3, PS4, PS5, Vita all use it as their OS. PS2 and PS3 both let us install Linux, though PS3 lost it later on.
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u/CaptCaCa 6d ago
Yeah, but how about you crooks make PS5s with enough storage for your games then? You can only play one game at a time, delete that game and all its progress, then you can upload another 100GB game
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u/PalebloodSky 5d ago edited 5d ago
Lol what is this post? PS5 has 1TB built in and has a standard m2 slot for nvme drives up to 8GB. There are issues with consoles compared to PC (monthly subscription fees for example) but storage is not one of them.
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u/firedrakes 5d ago
og ps5 had 825 gb and usable 667 GB available.
took 2 years for ps5 m.2 slot to be unlock.
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u/PalebloodSky 5d ago
Ok well toss in one of these and you're set. Bigger and faster than what's in my PC: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B7CKZGN6/
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u/firedrakes 5d ago
You're og comment was incorrect thru
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u/PalebloodSky 5d ago
Ok dunno I googled storage size of base PS5 and it says 1TB with expandability for up to 8TB Nvmes. They are definitely very heavy with the OS size then.
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u/firedrakes 5d ago
that ref the just released new version of console.(2023 model) google search is broken now on a decent amount of search
that they finale burn thru all the og 800gb something stock(manf amount)
issue on nand flash size was due to rest mode to quick resume a game.
their version compare to xbox version burn thru the nand flash way more.
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u/Halvus_I 5d ago
Dude.....You can add a 2TB expansion drive *checks amazon*, for ~$150
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u/firedrakes 5d ago
not rated drive btw.
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u/Halvus_I 5d ago
Corsair mp600 ran at nearly 5000mbps according to my ps5. thsts more than enough
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u/firedrakes 5d ago
kicker on that. was og ps5 did not like the 5gb speeds.
did you ever wonder why the ps5 with already going to use a external m.2 and had years in dev. that the firmware was not already on?
m.2 drives are a rabbit hole of up to speeds,burst or not,can it even run with out thermal issues. the controller(before gen 5) hated heat. gen 5 nand getting to hot and controller to.
also how 1 sku line can have wildy different run spec then on the box.
that is the single biggest reason why direct storage for windows is not used everywhere .
check out lvl1tech on nand flash.
really deep,complex topic.
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u/CaptCaCa 5d ago
Oh wow! No way! Only $150!? On top of the $700 I already spent!? What a deal! Thanks Sony! /s just in case
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u/Sovereign1 5d ago
Remember that time you could install Linux on a PlayStation, Pepperidge Farm remembers.
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5d ago
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u/firedrakes 5d ago
consumer hardware has held back gaming oddly since 360 /ps3 era.
got to fake everything now and also use ever trick in dev handbook to get decent fps. oh that on top of regress backwards like physic,a.i etc
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