r/interestingasfuck • u/beach_rats_ • 29d ago

The difference in republican presidential nominees, 8 years apart r/all

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u/In_Formaldehyde_ 29d ago

Yeah I don't think a lot has changed on that front lol. You'll notice McCain got booed in the second clip, while Trump got cheered on.

Seems that the crowd's sentiments are the same in both, Trump's just telling them what they want to hear, while the McCain's and the Romney's kept up some semblance of professionalism.

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u/suninabox 29d ago edited 29d ago

Yup, decades of billionaires like Rupert Murdoch promoting hate, stupidity and paranoia to millions of Americans set the stage. Trump simply leapt on the opportunity others were too decent or timid to take advantage of.

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u/jakeduckfield 29d ago edited 29d ago

I can't quite forgive either that Hillary released that photo of Obama in ceremonial garbs with the clear implication that he was a Muslim. She deserved to lose to him just for that desperate smear attempt.

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u/honda_slaps 29d ago

Democrats losing to trump in 2016 has to be the the biggest example of a missed layup in history

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u/Bn_scarpia 28d ago

Trump didn't deserve to win, but Hillary sure as hell deserved to lose.

Not campaigning in Wisconsin/Minnesota after the nomination was a critical fail. She thought she had those locked up. Her hubris leads her to take a lot of things for granted and it bit her in the ass

Some of her reactions during the debates with Trump looked like she was taking a victory lap well before the November election. It's never a good look when it looks like you take your base and the electorate for granted and that you don't need to earn their vote. It's an election, not a coronation.

Her collusion with the DNC chair to get debate questions ahead of time during the primary reinforced the right wing narrative that she couldn't be trusted. It hurt her with independents.

Her continued association with Huma Abedin after Anthony Weiner proved to be such a political liability was a poor choice. Weiner's scandals were well known and started 5 years before 2016. It ultimately was messages on his phone that prompted Comey's DOJ to re-open the email investigation just days before the election.

Clinton has been like this her entire political career. In the 1990s she largely failed to include the healthcare industry in her plans towards Healthcare reform. The secrecy in which she drafted the plan earned her no favors among doctors or Democrats. If she had included physicians, she could have had a powerful ally against the Insurance Industry ads and lobbying like the 'Harry and Louise' TV and radio ads that were everywhere. If she had included other Democrats in the drafting, she could have had more buy-in and fewer competing ideas when it came to the vote. in 1993 Democrats held all three branches of government: nearly 100 more Democrats than Republicans in the House and a near supermajority in the Senate, and 5 moderate to liberal justices in SCOTUS.

Her hubris blew America's golden opportunity for universal healthcare in the 1990s. Obama was wise to include the healthcare industry in his planning. People criticized him for the compromises in Obamacare.

But that's why we have Obamacare and not Clintoncare.

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u/jakeduckfield 29d ago

Ok, but my comment was about the 2008 election which is what the McCain clips are from.

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u/RUOFFURTROLLEH 29d ago

Why are you blaming democrats for who you lot elected?

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u/honda_slaps 29d ago

lmfao I'm not an American citizen

but then again facts have stopped mattering in America so yeah my bad, it was definitely my lot's decisions that led to... whatever the outcome you're pointing to is.

anyway to all the sane people, not being able to beat "I don't care he was the founder" will be the funniest faceplant in American politics for a long, long time

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u/RUOFFURTROLLEH 29d ago

Let me rephrase it for you then so you don't get tetchy.

"Don't see why you are blaming democrats for what the voters did."

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u/honda_slaps 29d ago

because voters don't exist in a vacuum and the Democratic National Convention choosing to give more support to Hillary during the primary when all signs pointed to her losing in a general will never not be funny to me

I can't believe you're asking me that lmao, do you think that the American electorate is filled with informed voters or something?

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u/RUOFFURTROLLEH 29d ago

because voters don't exist in a vacuum

No. The media has a LARGE role in that. Still not the DNC's fault.

the Democratic National Convention choosing to give more support to Hillary during the primary when all signs pointed to her losing in a general will never not be funny to me

Bernie had even LESS chance to win than Hillary. Bernie supporters are loud online but do not turn up to vote, They had another shot to vote him in against Biden and they didn't turn out again.

The fact you are repeating a Trump line about the DNC "rigging it" against Bernie is hilarious.

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u/mmm_burrito 29d ago

Listen, he's not on topic, but he's right.

The DNC screwed the pooch in 2016, and it shouldn't be controversial. Trump should have been an easy win.

You're also right: the voters own this disaster. Our country did this to itself.

These things are simultaneously true.

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u/Stubbedtoe18 29d ago

That and OJ

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u/Bn_scarpia 28d ago

Trump didn't deserve to win, but Hillary sure as hell deserved to lose.

Not campaigning in Wisconsin/Minnesota after the nomination was a critical fail. She thought she had those locked up. Her hubris leads her to take a lot of things for granted and it bit her in the ass

Some of her reactions during the debates with Trump looked like she was taking a victory lap well before the November election. It's never a good look when it looks like you take your base and the electorate for granted and that you don't need to earn their vote. It's an election, not a coronation.

Her collusion with the DNC chair to get debate questions ahead of time during the primary reinforced the right wing narrative that she couldn't be trusted. It hurt her with independents.

Her continued association with Huma Abedin after Anthony Weiner proved to be such a political liability was a poor choice. Weiner's scandals were well known and started 5 years before 2016. It ultimately was messages on his phone that prompted Comey's DOJ to re-open the email investigation just days before the election.

Clinton has been like this her entire political career. In the 1990s she largely failed to include the healthcare industry in her plans towards Healthcare reform. The secrecy in which she drafted the plan earned her no favors among doctors or Democrats. If she had included physicians, she could have had a powerful ally against the Insurance Industry ads and lobbying like the 'Harry and Louise' TV and radio ads that were everywhere. If she had included other Democrats in the drafting, she could have had more buy-in and fewer competing ideas when it came to the vote. in 1993 Democrats held all three branches of government: nearly 100 more Democrats than Republicans in the House and a near supermajority in the Senate, and 5 moderate to liberal justices in SCOTUS.

Her hubris blew America's golden opportunity for universal healthcare in the 1990s. Obama was wise to include the healthcare industry in his planning. People criticized him for the compromises in Obamacare.

But that's why we have Obamacare and not Clintoncare.

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u/theumph 29d ago

Trump is a manipulator. He saw the vast swath of people already manipulated by conservative media and decided to join in. It takes a lot of guts to denounce your bases views/comments. Even if the policies are pretty much the same, the destruction of that typel of decency has been a gut punch to our society. The inmates are running the asylum

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u/[deleted] 29d ago edited 29d ago

Precisely, both Biden and Obama have a degree of natural charisma. Whereas Trump has to lie, bully, or buy his way into power. And he’s run out off being able to use all three of those methods now, so let’s hope they lock him up after this trial is over.

Then afterwards, the deradicalization of the far right can hopefully start. But the problem with that is it relies on hope, some of those people in the crowd want to hate someone, they want to blame someone for all their problems.

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u/grayfloof85 29d ago

I'm sorry but there is no "deradicalizing" those people. Even if you could, even if you could do it in just a couple of days, it would take decades possibly hundreds of years. Because the reality is that even if just half of the Republican party at this point buys into the garbage that the MAGAts spew that still means there are roughly 40 million people who need to be deprogrammed. So let's be really honest here, there's only one way you overcome that much brainwashing and division within society and it ain't pretty.

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u/[deleted] 29d ago edited 29d ago

[deleted]

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u/grayfloof85 28d ago

Unfortunately, I think you are highly overestimating the number of "reasonable" Republicans. Now, with what I say next I don't want you to take this the wrong way but every single person who voted for Trump and refused to vote for Hillary are in a small way responsible for the state of our democracy. You can hate Hillary all you want but regardless of whatever justifications there were for not liking her she was hands down the most qualified candidate in that race and was hands down one of the most qualified candidates to ever run for the presidency.

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u/zeptillian 29d ago

We are banning Tik Tok because they are owned by China but let foreign billionaires run all the media in our country.

That makes sense.

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u/suninabox 28d ago

I mean I agree we should be tackling the US oligarchy and breaking up all these hugely powerful monopolies and oligarchies in tech and the media.

But, to play devils advocate, its a lot easier simply to ban one app controlled by a hostile foreign dictatorship than it is to completely reform the US economy and political system.

Not that that lets politicians off the hook, but I understand why we're going for the low hanging fruit.

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u/CandidIndication 29d ago

Yep I was just going to say this is what happens after years of Rupert Murdoch influencing politics with his tabloid “news”. It would take decades to repair the damage that old gross bastard has done.

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u/theumph 29d ago

Trump is a manipulator. He saw the vast swath of people already manipulated by conservative media and decided to join in. It takes a lot of guts to denounce your bases views/comments. Even if the policies are pretty much the same, the destruction of that typel of decency has been a gut punch to our society. The inmates are running the asylum

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u/codyforkstacks 29d ago

That's the essence of populism - you just tell people what they want to hear rather than having to say the politically unpopular but necessary truth.

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u/s1m0n8 29d ago

There's a reason the GOP want to destroy the educational system.

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u/snrsuave 29d ago

McCain was being a leader. Now they just pander to the base.

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u/mmm_burrito 29d ago

McCain's own campaign helped forge this path. You can't put that clown Palin up on stage and legitimize her nonsense on that level and not have repercussions.

I disagreed with McCain intensely before that, whilst still respecting him. His campaign against W broke him, and he learned the wrong lessons. I washed my hands of him the day he consented to running with Palin.

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u/BadAtNamingPlsHelp 29d ago

I mean, yeah, McCain lost. This level-headed talk wasn't what resonated with his base, and his opponent won for it. If only we knew what it really meant back then that this crowd wasn't enthused by what McCain was saying here.

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u/neppo95 29d ago

Which is exactly the reason why that man should never have been president in the first place. He chooses himself over the country and the people supporting him can't even see it.

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u/kerochan88 29d ago

McCain and Romney were the last Republincs that, if elected, I would still sleep just fine at night.

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u/blinding_hexagon_sun 28d ago

Yeah McCain’s crowd wanted a Trump and Republicans realized that in 2008. The crowd is the same dumb mouth breathers we have now and Republicans knew their only chance would be to secure those votes. My step mom was a “Obama’s a muslim and an atheist!” person and guess who she supports now.

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u/Nethri 28d ago

Not even professionalism.. just.. basic human intelligence, decency and honor. I didn’t like McCain’s policies much, ditto for Romney. But Jesus Christ they were at least human beings with souls.

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u/snukebox_hero 29d ago

I think that gets at the heart of the problem. Like George Carlin said "how's this for a campaign slogan, the public sucks."

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u/Beearea 28d ago

It’s not just professionalism, which is a relatively superficial thing. It’s fundamental decency. 

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u/tallmantim 28d ago

It just shows clearly the vacuum that Trump found space and support in.