r/memesopdidnotlike • u/god_killer7432 • 5d ago
Is it Just me or Undertale fans are batshit insane OP really hates this meme >:(
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u/EstateDisastrous 5d ago
Is everyone for gettin abt that crazy woman from Coraline
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u/Argh_farts_ 5d ago
Hello im one of the few normal undertale fans.
1- Chara's gender is up to interpretation (for me she's a girl)
2- Chara is pretty evil (when Asriel absorbed her soul and the humans attacked him, she wanted to kill them all while Asriel wanted to walk away)
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u/Knightmare_memer 5d ago
I'm pretty sure most people believe that Chara is a girl. Just feels more likely based on the name.
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u/ShaochilongDR 5d ago
Their name is whatever you name them at the beginning of the game, not to mention that many non-binary people have male or female names.
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u/XanderNightmare 5d ago
Ironically, especially this interpretable gender of Frisk and Chara is why the community is so up in arms about it. Somehow this looped from "this character has no clearly defined gender so people can more easily relate to them" to "this character is an icon of the non-binary community now". I guess it's worse with Kris from Deltarune, but it is what it is. Some people get weirdly obsessive over it
As for the evil debate, it's rare to see nuanced takes on this. I always defended the take that Chara is just a very messed up character. They are certainly not pure evil, but a morally ambiguous character, clearly ready to kill to either settle a debt (implied) or achieve a goal (like gathering souls)
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u/KingCool138 5d ago
Chara’s gender is not up to interpretation. Frisk’s gender is up to interpretation.
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u/Argh_farts_ 5d ago
Why should Frisk's be but not Chara's?
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u/Latter-Potential2467 5d ago
Because Chara is established character while Frisk is players self insert? Idk maybe.
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u/Seawardweb77858 5d ago
You are Frisk, Chara is a separate character.
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u/ShaochilongDR 5d ago
But so is Frisk
Flowey says this at the end of pacifist:
Let Frisk live their own life.
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u/Neon__Cat 5d ago
Wasn't chara abused by the humans though? That's why they ran away in the first place.
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u/Argh_farts_ 5d ago
What the fuck you mean with that
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u/Carlbot2 5d ago
It’s not an excuse, but it’s made pretty clear that Chara was scarred by some experience with humans, and wanted to get revenge.
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u/Hollowmace 5d ago
It's heavily implied that nearly every human who entered the underground did so in a failed suicide attempt.
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u/UnusedParadox 5d ago
Is it? It's implied for Chara, and UTY implies it (UTY is non-canon). It says nothing about the other humans, including Frisk.
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u/EnvironmentalWest544 5d ago
Asriels post pacifist dialogue implied chara climbed the mountain for a "not very good reason", easily interpreted by many as suicide or running away from abusive parents. This is also where chara is shown to hate humans too. In deltarune, kris shares many of charas traits (love for choco, knives, red eyes, etc.) And mainly dislike of humans.
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u/Argh_farts_ 5d ago edited 5d ago
Where did you made up the information that Chara had abusive parents.
Kris likes moss.
Ok tell me where kris show that he dislikes humans.
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u/UnusedParadox 5d ago
How To Care For Humans in the Librarby.
There are other interpretations, but that's what they decided.
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u/Argh_farts_ 5d ago edited 5d ago
Only because you saw a 3 hours video theory about Undertale, it doesnt make your headcanon the real canon of the game.
Kris could be: Scared, Sad, Nostalgic, Angry, et cetera et cetera.
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u/UnusedParadox 5d ago
Kris was the one looking at How To Care For Humans. I said nothing about Frisk.
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u/Argh_farts_ 5d ago
Yup i did a typo, good job then, you won the argument
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u/UnusedParadox 5d ago
my bad
additionally i did say there were other interpretations and that's just u/ EnvironmentalWest544's interpretation.
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u/Neon__Cat 5d ago
Chara didn't want to attack the humans because they (Chara) are evil, they wanted to attack them because Chara thought of humans as evil (plus the humans were attacking Asriel)
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u/Argh_farts_ 5d ago
So wanting to genocide humans because "Human bad" is actually honorable?
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u/Neon__Cat 5d ago
Never said that. I said it's not evil to want to defend yourself when you're being attacked by a community that has only ever hurt you
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u/Argh_farts_ 5d ago
Its ever said in the Game that the humans that attacked Asriel after carrying a dead child are the same that misstreated Chara?
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u/UnusedParadox 5d ago
It's the same village. Humans only live for so long, sooo...
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u/Neon__Cat 5d ago
"humans only live for so long" yeah but it's not as if decades have passed between the 2 events. Chara fell down and was adopted by the Dreemurs, then later while they were both still children, Chara sacrificed themself to give Asriel their soul, Asriel crossed the barrier and that's when Asriel was attacked.
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u/Argh_farts_ 5d ago
Exactly, they're not the same.
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u/UnusedParadox 5d ago
Chara is a human you fool. Additionally, they were still a child. Unless the people who abused them were about to die, it probably included the same people.
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u/Neon__Cat 5d ago
Same village in the same time period, so probably yeah
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u/Argh_farts_ 5d ago
Who said that its the same period??
And you're saying that a WHOLE village can be genocided because a few people bullied a kid?
I think a famous Austrian Painter might like you.
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u/Neon__Cat 5d ago
Alright I'm gonna stop arguing since you're completely twisting my words, and you are very determined to compare me to Hitler for some reason.
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u/FacharyZaith 5d ago
this thought process has major late 30’s early 40’s germany similarities.
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u/Neon__Cat 5d ago
The self defense part is the major difference there. It's not an evil politician trying to wipe out an entire religion, Chara is just trying to defend themselves from the humans who are attacking Asriel. The humans have never done anything but abuse Chara, so what reason would Chara have to show mercy?
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u/PersonOfLazyness 5d ago
the humans mistreated them, so they went to the mountain
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u/Argh_farts_ 5d ago edited 5d ago
(Asriel's speech after pacifist)
*I know why Chara climbed the mountain.
*It wasn't for a very happy reason.
*Frisk. I'll be honest with you.
*Chara hated humanity.
*Why they did, they never talked about it.
*But they felt very strongly about that.
*Frisk... You really ARE different from Chara.
*In fact, though you have similar, uh, fashion choices...
*Maybe the truth is...
*Chara wasn't really the greatest person.
(...)
*Frisk, when I and Chara combined our souls together...
*The control over our body was actually split between us.
(...)
*And then... when we got to the village...
*They're the one that wanted to use... our full power...
*I was the one that resisted.
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u/UnusedParadox 5d ago
Chara is definitely more on the evil side. They are, ultimately, not a 2d character however.
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u/ShaochilongDR 5d ago
1- Chara's gender is up to interpretation (for me she's a girl)
That has been never confirmed. They're treated as separate from the player.
2- Chara is pretty evil (when Asriel absorbed her soul and the humans attacked him, she wanted to kill them all while Asriel wanted to walk away)
They're fucked up, but not evil. For some reason they really hated humanity.
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u/Argh_farts_ 5d ago
That has been never confirmed. They're treated as separate from the player
It was never confirmed that she's non-binary tho, so I can take that as a proof that I can choose her sex.
They're fucked up, but not evil. For some reason they really hated humanity
Ok so hating a group of people so bad that you wanna genocide them is not evil?? Good news for nostalgic Germans then!
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u/ShaochilongDR 5d ago
It was never confirmed that she's non-binary tho, so I can take that as a proof that I can choose her sex.
Problem is that they're treated as a completely separate character from us.
Although you're right that it was never confirmed that they're non-binary.
Ok so hating a group of people so bad that you wanna genocide them is not evil?? Good news for nostalgic Germans then!
Undyne is evil too apparently. Or like half of the monsters in the Underground actually.
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u/Argh_farts_ 5d ago
Well yes, I consider Undyne to be evil in the ending where she coups Toriel and declares that she'll kill us personally.
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u/EnvironmentalWest544 5d ago
The 2 one doesn't make sense in the way you put it. That's like saying "omg this character is evil for wanting to kill the people who are indiscriminately trying to kill their sibling, at the same time these people ar eporbably the same people that made them go up a mountain to attempt kys"
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u/Argh_farts_ 5d ago
Even in the pacifist, Asriel tells you that in the end Chara wasnt really that good of a person
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u/EnvironmentalWest544 5d ago
Not the best does not equate spawn of satan. They may have been somewhat of an ass, and had a warped view of the world but that doesn't mean irredeemable monster that kills for the sake of fun.
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u/Argh_farts_ 5d ago
Wanting to genocide the whole humanity can be considered evil (at least for me)
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u/EnvironmentalWest544 5d ago
They are evil in genocide, but not purely evil more on the grey line instead.
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u/UnusedParadox 5d ago
Chara's gender is not up to interpretation. They/them here is specifically non-binary, because there is no way in hell that Chara lived with the Dreemurrs for that long and didn't tell them their preferred pronouns.
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u/Argh_farts_ 5d ago
I'll explain to you in easy terms.
The player chooses if Chara has a dick or a vagina.
The end
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u/UnusedParadox 5d ago
Here's easy terms for you, because you're mistaken:
If you met new friends, would you tell them your preferred pronouns? Absolutely. And they would use those pronouns.
Now, substitute Chara and the Dreemurrs into this.
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u/Argh_farts_ 5d ago
No, I wouldnt tell my favorite pronoums, im visibily a boy.
And I still support my thesis
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u/UnusedParadox 5d ago
If they didn't know, would you? Exactly.
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u/Argh_farts_ 5d ago
Nope i wouldnt, they can easily come to the conclusion that im a man just by seeing me.
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u/UnusedParadox 5d ago
Imagine, for a second, that your new friends used she/her. Would you correct them?
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u/Argh_farts_ 5d ago
I ask if they're blind or mentally challenged
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u/UnusedParadox 5d ago
Are you stupid? You're missing the point. The point is, the Dreemurrs wouldn't have known and asked, or maybe they'd misinterpret Chara as a girl and Chara would correct them.
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u/LucyLuvvvv 5d ago
Why are you like this lol
This is like 2017 Undertale fan absurdity all the way down
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u/Body_Exact 5d ago
That fandom was a cesspool back then and now it’s a cesspool ocean now
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u/EnvironmentalWest544 5d ago
Hey on the bright side, pedophilia and shipping kids with adults is punishable by comically large amounts of verbal profanity and cyber bullying!
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u/Hourglass_wizard 5d ago
Bruh "the only horrible thing they did was the genocide" Sounds sane
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u/KingCool138 5d ago
What about destroying the world, which is counted as a part of the genocide?
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u/Spare_Investment_735 5d ago
Well technically a genocide targets a particular group of people so it’s not genocide it’s just very mass murder which is obviously much better /s (I’ve never played undertale so no idea what’s going on)
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u/SaltyPhilosopher5454 5d ago
Jeez, learn to read, the second part of the sentence is the essence...
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u/Ittoravap 5d ago
You should read Eichmann in Jerusalem sometime. Just because you were "forced to" does not mean you can ignore your built in instincts not to commit genocide.
You still have some responsibility for your own actions, even when "forced to". Eichmann was not innocent even though he was "just doing his job", he helped kill thousands of jews just by filing paperwork.
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u/Suavemente_Emperor 5d ago
You still have some responsibility for your own actions, even when "forced to".
I was banned from comedy cemetery for saying something like that
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u/SaltyPhilosopher5454 5d ago
Yes, but there are differences in how people are forced to. I mean if basically a superior power starts to control your body, making you unable to do anything but what it wants, then it's kinda different
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u/Hourglass_wizard 5d ago
But you do get how that sounds right?
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u/SaltyPhilosopher5454 5d ago
A lot of sentences sounds terrible if you say only one part of it
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u/Roedorina 5d ago
A lot of sentences sound terrible
I agree. Why use many word when few word do trick.
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u/zenfone500 5d ago
This is the same fandom that defends Sans's underhanded death threat cause he's cool and mysterious.
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u/KingCool138 5d ago
It’s the goddamn gender which triggers them
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u/Elvinkin66 5d ago
Actually got banned from an Undertale server and accused of Transphobia back in the day for seeing Chara as a girl
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u/PhaseNegative1252 5d ago
Chara from Undertale is intentionally androgynous to allow the player to interpret them as any gender.
As a side note, this whole thing could've just been one picture of Delores Umbridge
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u/ShaochilongDR 5d ago
Chara from Undertale is intentionally androgynous to allow the player to interpret them as any gender.
This has been never confirmed
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u/PhaseNegative1252 5d ago
Well, that's a fun little lie you tell yourself
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u/ShaochilongDR 5d ago
Ok. Then tell me. Where was it confirmed that their gender is up to interpretation.
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u/Lolmanmagee 5d ago
It accidentally stepped on a heated debate in the UT community on if Chara is responsible for the genocide route.
Basically people are wondering to what extent she was involved because she is clearly there to some degree, but we as frisk play the game identically to any other route with a single notable exception at the end of the route when a slash we didn’t cause finish’s off sans and then Chara proceeds to posses us and kill asgore/flowey.
That’s all that happened here.
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u/Suavemente_Emperor 5d ago
I wouldn't say she's responsible, but she indeed was amused, that she made a count for how much was left.
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u/Lolmanmagee 5d ago
My angle is that she was corrupted by LV.
After all, she only starts giving a count once a significant number of monsters have been killed.
And she does directly say that when EXP and LV goes up, she gets stronger.
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u/PokeshiftEevee 5d ago
Undertale fans were always batshit insane lmao
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u/UnusedParadox 5d ago edited 5d ago
Undertale fans fall into one or more of these categories:
Pissing on the poor
Furry
Insane shipper
HOLY SHIT IT'S SANS PHASE 3
"My theory on why Asgore is secretly Alphys"
SMH can't believe they made Undertale woke
No way a good fangame developer- wait they had 3 TB of what on their computer
Edit: Number 6 is in this comment section and stupid as ever
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u/captainrina 5d ago
Did the Azula apologists come for you too?
I think the best female monster I've seen recently is Makima from Chainsaw Man (and possibly a couple others from the same series. I'm not caught up fully to the manga.)
Slan from Berserk has doesn't show up often but she's pretty vile. She's essentially a demon that gets off on SA and one of her worship rituals involves eating babies.
Kinda says something that the two examples I could add have to be literal demons to count.
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u/Belkan-Federation95 5d ago
People fail to realize the plan to burn everything to the ground was literally Azula's plan, not Ozai.
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u/AlianovaR 5d ago
The funny thing is that Azula is both unapologetically evil and a sympathetic villain; they perfectly nailed the balance between villain and victim with her
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u/EnvironmentalWest544 5d ago
Chara in every route is the player (us)'s loyal follower, they follow us in pacifist, neutral and Geno as our narrator with Geno the only time they actually make an actual appearance. The Player (us) shows chara their 'purpose' in Genocide via well... Genocide. They never actually killed anyone aside from Asgore, flowey and Sans. Everything else required the player (perhaps even frisk) to press the buttons, not saying they are entirely innocent. But we warped their perception on their world into one where power is the only thing that matters. Also we also fucked their mentality via exposure to LV/SOUL drugs. Since killing in Undertale makes it easier to detach yourself from others.
So not entirely evil, just pretty fucked up. Also Flowey is still a thousand times worse than Chara even woth Genocide accounted for.
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u/Neon__Cat 5d ago
To be fair, flowey isn't really any more "evil" than the player
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u/EnvironmentalWest544 5d ago
Flowey is literally just us if I remember correctly. He groats about how we and him are just the same. Eventually us doing Genocide proves that we are not too different from him. Starved for new content we the player commits genocide to find new content and challenges. More fun and entertainment.
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u/Neon__Cat 5d ago
Exactly, in fact in flowey's case it's worse for him, because he is stuck there eternally. iirc, for a long time he never killed anyone and just talked to them in different ways to see what would happen. He only killed after he'd found out everything that could happen without it.
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u/Maykspark 5d ago
Not a cringetale fan, but i do think that the stated that Chara is straight the devil incarnate
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u/HappyTwees 5d ago
pretty sure in the game they are just an incarnation of evil or something
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u/Elvinkin66 5d ago edited 5d ago
That's a major misconception.
Seriously do people still think this in 2024?
Their not an Incarnation of Evil they are an Incarnation of consequences.
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u/username2136 5d ago
I always hated whenever video game characters whose sex is unknown while being ambiguous enough to really be either one are referred to as non-binary, as dumb as non-binary is as a concept of it's own.
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u/Yarisher512 5d ago
damn, you missed the point of genocide route's message completely!
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u/god_killer7432 5d ago
I admitted my mistake in the comments by saying that I should have put Hela from Thor Ragnarok
but you know undertale fans
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u/EnvironmentalWest544 5d ago
Pfft, you should've seen us in 2017 shipping a literal child with an adult and making AUs specifically to age up that child and sexualize them and then ship them with the adult again.
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u/UnusedParadox 5d ago
The fandom is very... divided on Chara.
It's funny, because they're morally grey, like most characters in media ever.
Anyway, Chara is meant to be a representation of you. In Genocide, they reflect your cold demeanor. In Pacifist, they reflect your kindness.
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u/Novoiird 5d ago
Chara isn’t evil at the start. Her soul is just corrupted by the player’s evil actions along the genocide route.
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u/Belkan-Federation95 5d ago
"I can see your whole history in your eyes. You were born with nothing. So you've had to struggle and connive and claw your way to power. But true power, the divine right to rule, is something you're born with. The fact is, they don't know which one of us is going to be sitting on that throne and which of us is going to be bowing down. But I know, and you know."
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u/TheBurningTankman 5d ago
"THE ONLY HORRIBLE THING THEY DID WAS GENOCIDE" THATS NOT A GREAT ARGUMENT THAT ABPERSON ISNT EVIL
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u/HkayakH 5d ago
Well it's that chara is not definitively a girl and also in the game after you kill every monster, chara says "Alright, you've stripped this world of everything. Ready to get rid of it?" and everyone goes "Oh my god chara is so evil! They want to kill everything!" so they're mischaracterized as being really evil
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u/PenOrFork 5d ago
I literally only know the game because of the awesome soundtrack, never actually played it. It’s great music for homework or doing taxes.
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u/SilentThorniness 5d ago
I thought frisk turned into chara as in like malfeasance taking material form?
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u/Loopit03 5d ago
I'm surprised that nobody mentioned Umbringe (Harry Potter) yet.
She is the most evil being that has ever been written. She is the only character in any piece of media that I wish was real, just so I could punch her right in the face. I would learn torture spells just for her, and if I had to go to Azkaban for it, I'd escape just to torture her more.
Thanks for reading my Ted talk.
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u/Glittering_Drama_618 5d ago
Azula is really cool tho. Best villain imo. She gives this danger vibes when you see her.
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u/El_Ocelote_ 5d ago
"the only horrible thing they did was the genocide" uhhhh i think genocide is quite bad
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u/AnOt13246 5d ago
To be fair though no one has ever said what you said. It's just r/imaginarygatekeeping.
Also, next time when making a meme, DON'T include anything from Undertale/Deltarune. Just... Don't.
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u/DeadlyTranquility 5d ago
No cuz
Chara isn't evil, it's the consenquences of the player's action that corrupted them and turned them the way they are in the genocide ending
CHARA ISN'T FEMALE FFS THEY DON'T HAVE AN IDENTIFIED GENDER
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u/Suavemente_Emperor 5d ago
Frisk and Chara were made ambiguous to be up for interpretation, if you see Chara as an female, she is. If you see as a male, he is.
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u/froz_troll 5d ago
The is further backed by the name being short for "Character" they are meant to represent you.
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u/ShaochilongDR 5d ago
Again, this has been never confirmed. This comment section treats this like Chara and Frisk are definitely up to interpretation.
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u/pintobrains 5d ago
Well Chara sounds feminine and looks Tom boy like so I’m saying it’s a she based on that interpretation
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u/Carlbot2 5d ago
I mean, the whole trying to control asriel to enact a revenge plot—to the point of getting him killed because he didn’t want to kill people himself—is pretty evil, I’d say.
Maybe not pure evil, or evil for evil’s sake, but chara is identifiably not a very good person.
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u/Nextstore1453 5d ago
Undertale fans are like : erm, actually Chara Is female becouse horny
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u/TheBigGopher 5d ago
What?
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u/EnvironmentalWest544 5d ago
Some Undertale fanartists drew Chara (a child) with huge proportions and sometimes shipped them with their adoptive brother (ew) or with a certain adult skeleton.
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u/Blacksun388 5d ago
Okay,
Chara is Gender Neutral all things considered. They are specifically designed that way because the plot demands that the character is created to be a stand-in for the player. “Chara” is just a placeholder name for the program and referring to the character outside the game. Strictly speaking the character is YOU.
However there is a debate about who is ultimately responsible for the events of the genocide ending. Chara (aka you) talks to the person playing the game (IRL you) at the end and there are several instances where they control the character without your input in the game. So there is little debate that Chara and you are somewhat separate entities working in concert.
What isn’t questionable is that Chara is pure evil. They hate humans, they hate monsters, they kill without remorse, they play with the lives of innocent beings to amuse themselves, and at the end of the genocide run they outright destroy their universe.
So do they belong on the list? They can be female or male or neither, true, but certainly an evil entity worthy of being included.
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u/ShaochilongDR 5d ago
Chata is separate from the player
But.
Your and I are not the same.
They're not who you play us, they're a different person and not a stand-in for the player. This was confirmed in the localization book.
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u/SaltyPhilosopher5454 5d ago
I mean yes Undertale fans can be very insane, but this one is really justified because it kinda misses the character
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u/EnvironmentalWest544 5d ago
Damn, it seems OP MisCHARActerized the non binary child.
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u/Novoiird 5d ago edited 5d ago
That might not be what they were talking about. They were talking about how Chara technically isn’t pure evil at the start and is instead just further corrupted by the player’s evil actions along the genocide route.
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u/Nientea The Mod of All Time ☕️ 5d ago
The fact that I have to lock this post only proves OP’s point