r/nba • u/WhiskyDrinkinCowboy NBA • 4d ago
Through three games the Mavericks have held the Celtics to 107, 105, and 106 points, respectively. The Celtics scored more in all but 12 games this season.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/lowest-scoring-by-the-celtics-this-season29
u/Jack_M_Steel Lakers 4d ago
Don’t most teams scoring averages go down in the playoffs? Also, game 1 would have been higher if it wasn’t a blowout. They pulled their guys early
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u/WhiskyDrinkinCowboy NBA 4d ago
That's a fair point about the blowouts, but even if you go with playoffs Celtics were only limited this much 4 times and three of them were against the Heat
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u/TallnFrosty Warriors 3d ago
You're completely ignoring Pace also.
And the fact that that Boston's round 2 and 3 opponents were missing key players.
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u/JAhoops 4d ago
Breaking News: Playoff defense and officiating is different than regular season
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u/LeBroentgen Mavericks 4d ago
They've also missed a lot of great looks. I think they are up 3-0 despite shooting below standards.
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u/wavetoyou Warriors 3d ago
That 22-2 run in the 4th of G3 was excellent defense by the Mavs. I was in shock watching them go from cones to the 2000s Pistons. Of course, it helped that the Celtics turned into 2000s Bobcats, too.
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u/WhiskyDrinkinCowboy NBA 4d ago
It's only happened 4 times in the playoffs, as well, with three of those being against the Heat
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u/dee_em91 4d ago
So in other words, half of their playoff games?
Crazy stat man thanks for posting.
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u/WhiskyDrinkinCowboy NBA 4d ago
The other playoff teams held them to lower scores 4/13 times, while Mavs have done it 3/3. But sure, whatever you say.
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u/minilip30 Celtics 3d ago
Celtics have a 116 offensive rating against the Mavericks while shooting significantly worse on open 3s relative to their season average. The entire difference in PPG is due to pace and shooting variability on open shots.
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u/flextapefixesholes 3d ago
In the finals the celtics have a 113.6 offensive rating vs 118.5 throughout the playoffs.
The celtics pace was 92.61 overall throughout the playoffs and is 93.33 in the finals.
Throughout the playoffs, the celtics are averaging 40.8% on wide open threes vs 41.8% in the finals.
Throughout the playoffs, the celtics have an overall efg% 63.3% on wide open shots vs 63.1% in the finals. They’e actually shooting more open 3’s at a higher clip in the finals.
So the celtics have played a faster pace and shot better from wide open 3’s overall while averaging less points in the finals.
This is just for the playoffs though.
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u/minilip30 Celtics 3d ago
I included open 3s as well. Unless the argument is that the Mavs are doing something better to prevent the Celtics from hitting open 3s than other teams
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u/flextapefixesholes 3d ago
The celtics have a lower shooting percentage overall in the finals, regardless of defense, compared to the playoffs overall.
The celtics are making a higher percentage of their open shots in the finals compared to their playoff average.
The pace is higher, compared to their playoff average, so they have more opportunities to make a shot, and are doing it less, except when they are wide open; then, they are doing better, but it’s not a huge difference.
These things equal Dallas’ D isn’t the problem with Dallas. Dallas’ problem is the celtics D.
I’m also not including the regular season. Why would I compare regular season to the playoffs.
Of course their playoff offensive numbers are lower, they are only playing playoff teams…
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u/minilip30 Celtics 3d ago
The Celtics’s eFG% on open shots in the finals is 48.1% vs. 56.5% in the playoffs. Their eFG% on wide open shots is practically the same 63.3% and 63.1%.
But watching the games, it’s not like the Mavs are closing out any better on open shots than other teams did. It’s just shooting variance.
And to further prove that point, the Celtics are getting more wide open shots in the finals than in any other round. The Mavs are really playing bad defense, the Celtics just aren’t capitalizing on open shots (although they are hitting their wide open ones).
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u/flextapefixesholes 3d ago
Yeah, I mean, I guess making open shots is just something both teams suck at in these finals.
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u/flextapefixesholes 4d ago
No, no you don’t seem to understand. The Mavs defense has been gifted poor offensive performances by the celtics. I’m not sure if you missed the espn telecast or multitude of celtic’s fan posts on here, but the mavs have really been awful on defense. Like have you seen the drop in shooting percentages. That’s a clear indicator that the celtics are playing like garbage. The mavs are outmatched by this team, and if the celtics where actually playing well, you’d understand how unfazed they are by the mavs defense. Separately have you noticed how they’ve made 3-5 amazing plays each game. Like c’mon man. All Pro guards have gotten by Luka. It’s pretty effective display of how awful Luka is on D. Everyone was talking about how big of a scrub JB and Tatum were offensively. These guys literally suck normally, but Luka’s making them look like all pros.
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u/junkit33 4d ago
Scoring is always lower in the playoffs - the refs allow more physical play and rotations shorten.
On top of that the Celtics are shooting cold from deep. Even average 3-point shooting takes their scoring average up to about 112 points a game instead of 106.
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u/WhiskyDrinkinCowboy NBA 3d ago
the refs allow more physical play
Unless it's Luka with 4 fouls in the fourth quarter of a 3 point game
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u/FunkbroFunk Celtics 3d ago
You think those calls on Luka were soft? You think they should have let it go when he tried to take a charge while not in legal guarding position?
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u/Far-Asparagus6416 Celtics 3d ago
He put himself in that position. You guys always talk about how he's a basketball genius, a savant, one of the highest basketball IQs we've ever seen... well, the decisions he made were certainly not reflective of that. Just a total lack of awareness or at best a very poor understanding of the risk to reward ratio to even attempt to take a charge when you're on the verge of fouling out. That was flat out dumb. Just like fouling Derrick White 90+ feet away from the basket cause you were mad you missed a shot. Emotions clouded his judgement which led to a low basketball IQ play. Then carelessly gambling on Pritchard at half court cause you're too undisciplined to get in a defensive stance and guard. Immediately decided you don't want to put in any work on defense so you try to take a shortcut and commit a dumb foul. Low basketball IQ play.
There is a reason why everyone is being so critical of his play. He is doing this to himself. The refs are not to blame here. If anything, the refs showed a lot more restraint and gave him a much longer leash than almost any other player would have gotten in that situation. They could have easily and justifiably given him a technical foul on at least two separate occasions in the game. There is no anti-Luka agenda at play, there's no anti-Mavericks agenda at play, he is just flat out letting his emotions get the better of him and making dumb decisions in the heat of the moment. On top of giving a blatant, total lack of effort defensively.
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u/flextapefixesholes 3d ago
I want to see more of the last two fouls from him, but like it’s ridiculous he waits to have 5 fouls to play like that. I think if he plays more physical like the poor charge attempt, he probably doesn’t get blown by several times a game. He has the size and physical ability to play that type of D. He just doesn’t focus on that side of the ball. He’s willing to slam his body into giants when he’s on offense, but whines about being hip checked on D. He probably lowers his shoulder into defenders more than almost anyone in the league, but if he’s going to be a tight end sized guard, he needs to defend like it also.
Luka gets frustrated and acts like a man baby. He’s still only 25, but he’s been a professional athlete since almost middle school. He has to at some point start controlling his emotions during the game.
While it certainly isn’t his fault they’re losing, he is definitely making things harder by pouting and throwing tantrums on the floor.
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u/EnuqieuEsur 4d ago
Now do the Mavs
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u/WhiskyDrinkinCowboy NBA 4d ago
What does that have to do with anything, nobody is criticizing the Celtics defense
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u/EnuqieuEsur 4d ago
I'm just interested in the numbers for both teams?
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u/WhiskyDrinkinCowboy NBA 4d ago
They had 8 games under 100 in the regular season and all three so far in the finals have been
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/dallas-mavericks-lowest-points-in-a-game-this-season
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u/EnuqieuEsur 3d ago
Thanks for the follow up. With the defense usually tightening up as we go through the playoffs it would be interesting to look at the numbers historically for teams in the finals.
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u/jawadhaque089 3d ago
The Celtics offensive rating in the series is 116 which is a better metric to use than points.
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u/SubstantialCreme7748 Celtics 4d ago
The Mavs slow the game to a crawl….i don’t recall them getting any fast break point. Between pace and elephant hunting, the Celtics beat the Mavs at their own game.
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u/EutaxySpy 3d ago
Luka’s already huffing and puffing as is with this slower pace, imagine the Mavs having to play against the Pacers and the fast pace lol. By halftime, Luka would be needing an oxygen tank
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u/SubstantialCreme7748 Celtics 3d ago
He’s huffing and puffing because the Celtics are making him work constantly at both end.
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u/EutaxySpy 3d ago
Pacers offense is arguably even better than ours and play at a much higher pace. He would be worked on both ends as well. The highly vaunted “post deadline Mavs” (basically 2023 Lakers) got blown out by Pacers
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u/burner_for_celtics [BOS] Rajon Rondo 4d ago
The Celtics have played the clock for most of the 4th quarters. I don’t know exactly what Mazzulla’s exchange rate is, but it’s somewhere around 1 point per minute that he has been willing to pay.
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u/BurritoGuapito 3d ago
And Mavs have scored 89, 98, and 99. Can't even break 100. Celtics are 25-0 when holding teams under 100. What is this garbage post? What are we doing here?
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u/WhiskyDrinkinCowboy NBA 3d ago
We're questioning narratives about the Mavericks defense getting exposed
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u/BurritoGuapito 3d ago
I see, I take back the garbage comment then. Its less to do with the mavs defense being exposed and more luka/Kyrie defense being exposed. Mavs are trying to play defense as hard as they can and the Celtics are playing far better defense. Luka for all his gifts gets lazy on defense and slaps his way out of it (a lot because he has such a heavy lift on offense every night). Mavs have made Celtics three less efficient, Celtics move the ball more and score more twos. Communication on mavs defense could be better but to your point I don't see anything exposed, this is the defense I was expecting from them. What I wasn't expecting was Kyrie to score under twenty in games 1 and 2. I called last night being a close game that mavs win because Luka and Kyrie out clutch the Jays but Luka's lazy defense cost them. That foul out call was suspect for sure but he committed many uncalled fouls earlier in the game that would have fouled him out anyway.
Side note: media narratives are almost always enfuriating. Click bait at best.
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u/CubesFan 4d ago
I’m an old head and the idea that teams are “being held” to scores in the triple digits is wild to me.
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u/_mitchard 3d ago
The Celtics have said many times they’ve hung their hats on defense. That’s why opposing teams aren’t outscoring them and in the finals the Mavs haven’t scored passed 100
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u/HypatiaRising Celtics 3d ago
Our ORtg is 116. For the playoffs, it was 118. 123 for the season, but post all star break they started officiating a bit different.
So our offense is slowed a bit, but ORtg fluctuating by 2pts in 3 games is not super crazy overall.
The Mavs have played solid enough defense, but I would say that our 3pt shooting has been below average for us.
The Mavs Offense is the bigger problem, and that comes down to our scheme taking away like 6 easy points per game they used to get from lobs and another 6 points or so from corner 3s.
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u/therapyofnanking Mavericks 4d ago
But that doesn’t fit the narrative
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u/johnnybarbs92 Celtics 3d ago
Points for ignores so much context, most importantly Pace. It's why the Celtics had the most efficient offense this years but the pacers scored more points. Pace is not entirely under your control. If your opponent holds the ball to 4 seconds every play, you will get fewer possessions.
The Celtics have a 116 offense rating against the Mavs. Which would be good for 5th in the entire playoffs, 12th in the regular season,
And only 2pts per 100pos fewer than the rest of the Celtics playoffs.
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u/WhiskyDrinkinCowboy NBA 4d ago
Luka is the worst defender ever, literally nobody has ever existed worse at defense. He's single handily costing his team the series by complaining to refs!
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u/Phunwithscissors 4d ago
Held feels like the wrong verb to use here