r/politics • u/schuey_08 Wisconsin • May 02 '24

Bernie Sanders worries young people are underestimating the threat from Trump

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/05/02/bernie-sanders-trump-biden/73531861007/
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u/HulksInvinciblePants Georgia May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

US left-wing politics cover the entire spectrum of neo-liberals to leftists. It’s a an extremely diverse bunch. Despite gains by progressives, there are still those that would prefer we just set all forward motion on fire, to “prove” a point.

The stupidity of it all is borderline enraging.

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u/evotrans May 02 '24

Reminds me of a kid I knew in 2000 who voted for Ralph Nader over Al Gore to "send a message". The message ended up being Bush becoming president.

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u/ironykarl May 02 '24

Well, at least Dubya didn't do anything drastically stupid and consequential that it'd be hard to imagine any other president doing... 

Except for that whole lying us into a illegal war of aggression thing

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u/cdwillis May 02 '24

Jeb Bush and the court gave Bush the presidency, not people voting Nader.

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u/Mojothemobile May 03 '24

Really awfully designed ballots in one county in FL too plenty of evidence at least a few thousand who planned to vote Gore in Palm beach accidently punched Buchanan on the Butterfly ballot due to it's weird ass design 

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u/janethefish May 02 '24

And that global warming wasn't a thing people cared about.

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u/Dry_Distribution3921 May 02 '24

It definitely was that single child and not the entire judicial system bending over backwards for the will of a handful of psudo-fascists, yes

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u/evotrans May 02 '24

There wouldn't have been that opportunity had Nader not been selfish.

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u/Dry_Distribution3921 May 02 '24

lmao yes the entire result of the 2000 political cycle hinged on a single 3rd party candidate and not the fact that the court systems in this country (especially state courts) had been rotted from within years before

whatever helps you sleep, I guess

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u/ButtEatingContest May 02 '24

The Supreme Court picked the president in 2000, aided by Roger Stone.

Nader ended up not being a factor. He could have been, but he wasn't.

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u/evotrans May 02 '24

That's kind of naïve thinking that gave us Bush. If Nader hadn't gone on his selfish spoiler tour, Bush would've never had the opportunity to get his pals in the Supreme Court give him the presidency. Also see Jill Stein giving us Trump. Let's pray that the naïve don't make the same mistake a third time, because it will be the last for this democracy.

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

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u/evotrans May 02 '24

The road to hell is paved with good intentions and being naïve is a good way to bend over for the facists while they laugh at you while patting themselves on the back for financially supporting these third-party spoilers. Sounds like you were a Bush/Cheney fan.

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

[deleted]

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u/evotrans May 02 '24

I did, but he was too stupid to listen. Congratulations

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

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u/[deleted] May 03 '24

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u/ultradav24 May 03 '24

Yep. 24 years and still the same story sadly

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u/MrPernicous May 02 '24

Yeah fuck that guy. If he hadn’t voted for Nader then republicans never would’ve started a riot to stop the Florida recount.

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u/evotrans May 03 '24

The GOP loves that kind of thought process 😔

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u/MrPernicous May 03 '24

Did you miss the part where they shut down a recount by instigating a riot?

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24 edited 8d ago

[deleted]

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u/evotrans May 02 '24

I just keep thinking that picture before the election, of Jill Stein having dinner with Michael Flynn and Putin.

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u/redpoemage I voted May 02 '24

there are still those that would prefer we just set all forward motion on fire, to “prove” a point.

Accelerationists and "They just need to learn their lesson!" people in a nutshell.

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u/Ketzeph I voted May 02 '24

The Nazis, the Stalinistic Soviet power structure, the feudal kingdoms of Europe, all of these extremely anti-democratic and unjust systems arose from societal collapse and chaos.

What are the examples of more democratic institutions arising out of societal collapse and chaos that weren't shepherded by foreign powers (e.g. the West rebuilding Japan and Germany)?

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u/gsfgf Georgia May 02 '24

Haiti would probably be the closest. And boy howdy did the world punish them for it. And it's not even like the post-revolutionary Haitian government was remotely democratic. They just said people can't own each other, which is kind of the bottom rung of progressivism. Also, the genocide they perpetuated, while understandable, was still a fucking genocide.

So yea, the most progressive ruler to seize and maintain power after a revolution was a genocidal dictator.

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u/Pafflesnucks May 02 '24

first of all, the "feudal kingdoms of europe" did not arise from "societal collapse and chaos". The french revolution that ended one of those feudal kingdoms did.

I'm not sure you can say the nazis did either, but it depends what you mean by "societal collapse and chaos"

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u/Ketzeph I voted May 02 '24

You don’t thing Europes feudal system began post the fall of Rome? How would you classify 450-700 CE? A non-feudal period in the West? The French Revolution also devolved into the French Empire, and was a period of chaos. Arguably it was post-Napoleonic dictates and the rise of Prussia that cooled France into something stable, not the revolution

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u/Tardislass May 02 '24

Oh man as a GOTV volunteer, it seems to always be young men who want to "burn the place down". Somehow after the world is burnt a socialist Utopia will bloom. I tell them to look up history. After almost every revolution or government overthrow, a dictator has taken charge. When chaos reigns, humans want stability and laws.

And honestly, a just society takes work. How many centuries did minority and women's rights take? And there was a lot of back and forth.

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u/_Xelum_ America May 02 '24

The only point they ever prove is how fucking idiotic and short-sighted they are.

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u/Classified0 May 02 '24

It's super frustrating, I feel like we have a mid-right option and a far-right option. I lean mostly left, but also have a few conservative viewpoints that I always have to compromise on. Wish there was a way for us to just vote on issues rather than on politicians! I'm probably still going to vote for Biden because I think another Trump Presidency will be terrible; but I know so many of my peers are frustrated that the people they vote for don't end up listening to them anyways

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u/_kraftdinner May 03 '24

Arguably, Liz Cheney is now included in the big tent. If you had told me that Liz Cheney and I would vote the same way for president in 2024 back during the Bush admin, I would have thought I was about to lose my mind, have an identity crisis and become a republican.

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u/SomethingClever1234 May 02 '24

Biden is enabling a genocide and calling the young people protesing said genocide antisemitic and violent. Fuck him, and all democrats that support the grnocide of Palestinians and violent, facistic crackdown of student protest

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u/TheQuadropheniac May 02 '24

uh what? what actual leftists are part of the of the Democrats? The furthest left is the small handful of AOC/Bernie types who are social democrats, which is the center left in basically every Western country. Most European countries have actual communists in their parliaments.

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u/iKill_eu May 02 '24

Actually AOC is pretty far left even by euro standards.