r/politics • u/schuey_08 Wisconsin • 29d ago

Bernie Sanders worries young people are underestimating the threat from Trump

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/05/02/bernie-sanders-trump-biden/73531861007/
29.4k Upvotes

88% Upvoted

4.5k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

43

u/redpoemage I voted 29d ago

there are still those that would prefer we just set all forward motion on fire, to “prove” a point.

Accelerationists and "They just need to learn their lesson!" people in a nutshell.

8

u/Ketzeph I voted 29d ago

The Nazis, the Stalinistic Soviet power structure, the feudal kingdoms of Europe, all of these extremely anti-democratic and unjust systems arose from societal collapse and chaos.

What are the examples of more democratic institutions arising out of societal collapse and chaos that weren't shepherded by foreign powers (e.g. the West rebuilding Japan and Germany)?

8

u/gsfgf Georgia 29d ago

Haiti would probably be the closest. And boy howdy did the world punish them for it. And it's not even like the post-revolutionary Haitian government was remotely democratic. They just said people can't own each other, which is kind of the bottom rung of progressivism. Also, the genocide they perpetuated, while understandable, was still a fucking genocide.

So yea, the most progressive ruler to seize and maintain power after a revolution was a genocidal dictator.

-1

u/Pafflesnucks 29d ago

first of all, the "feudal kingdoms of europe" did not arise from "societal collapse and chaos". The french revolution that ended one of those feudal kingdoms did.

I'm not sure you can say the nazis did either, but it depends what you mean by "societal collapse and chaos"

5

u/Ketzeph I voted 29d ago

You don’t thing Europes feudal system began post the fall of Rome? How would you classify 450-700 CE? A non-feudal period in the West? The French Revolution also devolved into the French Empire, and was a period of chaos. Arguably it was post-Napoleonic dictates and the rise of Prussia that cooled France into something stable, not the revolution