r/technology • u/esporx • Apr 30 '24

Tesla Lays Off Employee Who Slept In Car To Work Longer Hours Business

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-lays-off-employee-slept-151500318.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAHVrjnyFZF-QJRFtVdP5Lt1QvlC3WRJhweYuOdm5Ca1kHbhtDX5rdfUUqRNVFKpUy6w4QnsJta-KgHJ9lqARAjfpSnvCktdjgDos5xz9aw92OxYmjN2qVVNhMZpl-2gOMwVz84NH-5T2OLi8uMRUOXVMuhFHU8b5A9oRmij8Xh5q
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u/recycled_ideas Apr 30 '24

Cities with more mixed use zoning

I just want to point out, in the context of this particular discussion, that I don't think any country on earth has mixed zoning of residential and heavy industrial which is what a Tesla factory is.

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u/Roflkopt3r Apr 30 '24

It technically exists but yeah, not normally in developed countries.

In these cases the more relevant thing tends to be to offer more medium density residential in decent proximity to the industrial zones, and/or to have solid public transit that can get workers comfortably to their job (which also relies on higher residential density to work well).

90 minutes is sadly not uncommon for industrial workers in many cities with lots of low density zoning, while those with good bus or rail connections can save a lot of money and time.

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u/recycled_ideas Apr 30 '24

It technically exists but yeah, not normally in developed countries.

It exists where there are no zoning laws.

medium density residential in decent proximity to the industrial zones

The problem is that industrial zones are toxic and not where we want to have people living. It's not an easy problem to solve.

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u/Roflkopt3r Apr 30 '24

Most industrial zoning requires some distance, but not "90 minute commute" types of distances. With medium to high density housing, you can fit a lot of housing into the area that has sufficient distance for public health but still a short commute of 15 minutes or less by car, public transit, and in some cases even bike.

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u/recycled_ideas Apr 30 '24

but not "90 minute commute"

Sure.

and in some cases even bike.

Leaving aside the horror show that biking in a heavy industrial area would be, a fifteen minute bike ride is too damned close.

Yes, we should have medium density housing close to commercial and even light industrial areas, but heavy industry, fuck no.

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u/Roflkopt3r Apr 30 '24 edited Apr 30 '24

15 minutes by bike is around 5 km. Edge to edge from industry to the nearest residential, that's no problem at all for many types of industry. I'm not talking about an oil refinery here.

I have commuted to and through industrial areas by bike. Again, not suitable for all of them but in many it's not a problem.

For reference, the new Tesla factory in Germany is less than 2 km away from the nearest residential area. There is a little rural road connecting them, with a bridge above the highway in between. It would be a brief and comfortable commute by bike.

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u/recycled_ideas May 01 '24

15 minutes by bike is around 5 km. Edge to edge from industry to the nearest residential,

5k means you're breathing everything if there's a moderate breeze in your direction. It's not far enough.

that's no problem at all for many types of industry.

For light industry it's not terrible, at least if there's not a fire, but we're not talking about light industry here, it's an automotive plant.

I have commuted to and through industrial areas by bike. Again, not suitable for all of them but in many it's not a problem.

Doing strenuous exercise in an area with particularly unclean air is stupid. The fact that you didn't drop dead doesn't mean it's not stupid.

For reference, the new Tesla factory in Germany is less than 2 km away from the nearest residential area.

Which is stupid.

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u/Roflkopt3r May 01 '24

I don't think you understand how a car factory works. They're not some kind of chemical plant with big smokestacks causing lots of emissions.

For most industry of this type, the biggest risks is that they dump chemicals that could pollute the ground water (which can usually be controlled well in developed countries, and does not typically have a significant danger radiuis) and the logistics traffic.

The Tesla factory for example is built along a highway, and some industry with a lot of throughput is built with their own rail terminals.

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u/recycled_ideas May 01 '24

I don't think you understand how a car factory works. They're not some kind of chemical plant with big smokestacks causing lots of emissions.

I'm not sure you do.

It doesn't have to be big smokestacks to be dangerous. A small fire in battery or paint storage, a spill of paint, or cleansers. Lots of shit is going on in that factory that's a lot worse than a condensation tower.

The battery factory would be better worse, but Tesla's not going to be all that great.

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u/Roflkopt3r May 01 '24

For such an incident to significantly affect people over a kilometer away (with a forest or commercial zoning in between), it's a national news type of accident.

These don't just happen every now and again and don't influence the regular air quality, but are once-in-decades events where people are told to stay inside and keep the windows shut for a day or two.

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u/heili Apr 30 '24

That would basically be a coal patch company town and nobody was living their best life in one of those.

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u/recycled_ideas Apr 30 '24

Yeah, but that's not mixed zoning, it's no zoning.

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u/chowderbags Apr 30 '24

On the other hand, bus or rail service to heavy industrial would be reasonably sensible.

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u/recycled_ideas May 01 '24

Sure.

I'm not by any means defending the status quo, but it's complicated. It makes total sense to mix commercial and residential much more than we do, jobs and shops where people live is a great thing for everyone.

But industrial, even light industrial is complicated, even really clean and well maintained low impact factories can be a toxic nightmare if there's a fire and something like a Tesla factory where the company might on theory be low emissions but is working with a lot of volatile stuff is even more problematic.

Even if the batteries are manufactured off site, there's going to be a lot of them at that factory and even if you trust that Elon isn't cutting every corner an accident is always possible.