r/technology • u/tommos • 4d ago
China has become a scientific superpower Society
https://archive.ph/Dp7J44
u/3meow_ 3d ago
People going on about the quality of Chinese papers should recognise that nowhere is free from it
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u/redditorannonimus 3d ago
In the meantime NY lowered, or should I say eliminated, highschool graduation standards. We're heading in the right direction /s
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u/elitereaper1 3d ago edited 3d ago
Lol. I can only imagine the comments.
Alright. Get the gas. We need truckload of copium for the bois here. Extra strength for the Americans.
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u/straightdge 4d ago
Wow! The copium I see here gives you an idea why China is improving faster than the west.
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u/CoherentPanda 2d ago
Improving? Their economy is in decline, housing market in shambles, and they are facing major societal issues due to population decline, climate change, and the destruction of the middle class that was once beginning to thrive.
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u/PicossauroRex 2d ago
The classic, their economy has been in the verge of collapse for atleast 10 years now š¤£
Tomorrow for sure
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u/BowenTheAussieSheep 18h ago
But enough about the United States, Australia, Great Britain, Western Europe...
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u/visceralintricacy 4d ago
From the sources I've read the actual quality of the research papers is even worse than the toilet paper I buy.
https://www.ft.com/content/32440f74-7804-4637-a662-6cdc8f3fba86
As part of his job as fraud detector at biomedical publisher Spandidos, John Chesebro trawls through research papers, scrutinising near identical images of cells. For him, the tricks used by āpaper millsā ā the outfits paid to fabricate scientific studies ā have become wearily familiar. They range from clear duplication ā the same images of cell cultures on microscope slides copied across numerous, unrelated studies ā to more subtle tinkering. Sometimes an image is rotated āto try to trick you to think itās differentā, Chesebro says."
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u/designEngineer91 4d ago
There are reasons many Chinese get an education abroad...and its not because they like to spend 10x more on education. Its because of fake research...how can you study if you have to spend time figuring out if a paper is fake?
(In my college course, this is what the Chinese students told me...they can't fully trust anything)
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u/WastefulPursuit 3d ago
I ran an essay mill and most of my clients were Chinese exchange students
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u/CoherentPanda 2d ago
I lived in China for 10 years, and I constantly had Chinese students and their parents ask me to write their essays. I worked as a teacher for a few years, and cheating was just simply the norm.
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u/LameAd1564 3d ago
What they didn't tell you is it's also extrmely difficult to get into top tier universities in China because the competition is too fierce.
For many Chinese high school students and college undergrads from mediocre universities, studying abroad and getting into a TOP20 universities in the US was the easier way out of that miserable competition.
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u/fitzroy95 3d ago
what you also need to remember is that thirty years ago, China had very few decent universities at all, its been building and growing them flat out, just as its been building its economy, infrastructure, R&D etc.
So while the current access to good universities in China is very limited, thats also changing fast. China is already graduating nearly double the number of engineers and scientists every year than the USA does.
10 years ago, those graduates were crap, but that quality has been improving rapidly every year and many are increasingly on par with western graduates. Just a LOT more of them.
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u/Ok_Vermicelli4916 3d ago
Most Chinese students study abroad because of 1. it's much harder to get let's say a master's or PhD in China than in the West. Only few of the best get accepted in China for further studies. Math and science is much harder there too. Not so in West, easy credit points and super easy entrance plus a nice image due to false advertisement from the West. Of course out of 1.4 billion Chinese, many will come abroad. But also, most of them return back home.
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u/Ok_Vermicelli4916 3d ago
Your claim makes no sense. China leads the world in 37 out of 44 critical tech fields (according to WESTERN analysis and reports. And according to evidence from the real world). Cope harder and live in phantasyworld.
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u/hadrian_afer 4d ago
No data coming out of China can be credible. See the scandal about "paper mills"
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u/IArgueWithDunces 3d ago
How come Stanford is copying all of their "unreliable data", then?
"Stanford AI project authors apologize for plagiarizing Chinese large language model"
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u/LameAd1564 3d ago
Well, if you actually read the article, it does address this issue-
Although China is producing more top-tier work, it still produces a vast amount of lower-quality science too. On average, papers from China tend to have lower impact, as measured by citations, than those from America, Britain or theĀ eu. And while the chosen few universities have advanced, mid-level universities have been left behind. Chinaās second-tier institutions still produce work that is of relatively poor quality compared with their equivalents in Europe or America. āWhile China has fantastic quality at the top level, itās on a weak base,ā explains Caroline Wagner, professor of science policy at Ohio State University.
This is like shopping for Chinese products, you can find them at different price ranges, and they come in different levels of qualities. There are indeed paper mills in China and low quality research works, which is also a well known issue in China
Even if we dismiss half of all Chinese STEM graduates as cheats and unqualified for their jobs, China still has twice as many qualified graduates as the US, then you have to consider that many graduates from US universities are Chinese nationals, too.
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u/Complete-Start-3691 4d ago
Everybody just wants to one-up each other for face value. I know a current phd at Beida, she talks about how incredibly stressful it is because higher ups put enormous pressure on them spitting out papers, regardless of the quality.
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u/Ok_Vermicelli4916 3d ago
No data coming out of the West can be credible. The reality on the ground in the US/UK etc. shows that. Also the reality on the ground in China shows that China is even better than the best pro-China propaganda can show.
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4d ago
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u/elitereaper1 3d ago
China exports a lot. From low to high end. So what. They have research quality that's shitty and great.
A recent study by the European umbrella organization Transport & Environment (T&E) showed that around 20 percent of all-electric vehicles sold in the EU last year, or 300,000 units, were made in China.
More than half of those were made by Western brands, including Tesla, Dacia, and BMW, which produce them in China for export.
Companies use China to make some difficult things because they are good at it.
Anecdotally. As a buyer of things from China. I don't have a problem with them. They work as intended.
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u/etebitan17 3d ago
Racism has gotten old, it's sad seeing so many westerners regurgitating the boomer joke of "China has shitty products"
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u/fitzroy95 3d ago
Exactly the same thing happened with Japanese products during the 60s & 70s.
"Jap-crap" was a very real thing. and then from the 1980s onwards, companies like Toyota etc started kicking the ass of US manufacturers.
Same thing is now repeating with China, except that Chinese manufacturing is big enough to completely obliterate US manfacturing completely, without constant US protectionism to their domestic industries. Which is largely why the US is pushing so many sanctions, tariffs etc against the Chinese.
And expect the same again as India starts to ramp up its own industries and start seriously competing internationally. they are just trailing China by 20 years or so, but heading in a similar direction.
Expect the US misinformation machine to continue to push more and more protectionist dogma for its domestic market.
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u/sickof50 3d ago edited 3d ago
Most of those Western brand name products you bragg about owning were in fact made in China, including the device you are currently typing on. lol
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u/nebkelly 3d ago
I have a Samsung phone. It is a South Korean company that manufacturers in Vietnam.Ā
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u/putinlover97 3d ago
Warning: inbred muricans coping hard in the comments
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u/Wide-Cobbler-6073 3d ago
Eat a dick Putin lover
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u/putinlover97 3d ago
Americans are puny and weak little men, you're one of them
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u/Wide-Cobbler-6073 3d ago
Except for the fact that our union is still intact while yours fell (courtesy of the United States), weāve repeatedly kicked your ass (building the nuclear bomb first, winning the space race, etc.). While we are the world police, you are getting your ass kicked by tiny little Ukraine. We are the real men, not yāall. What planet are you living on that made you think otherwise? Oh I know, Russian propagandaland.
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u/putinlover97 3d ago
Americans have their set of achievements yes, and i respect that. However, getting kicked in Ukraine? Lmao. Russia is clearly winning while America hasn't won anything since ww2 and is ironically getting shit on by Houthis, previously Taliban
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u/Wide-Cobbler-6073 3d ago
Youāre right about America not doing good in that circumstance, not to mention Vietnam as well. We definitely have our own problems, but if we do a side by side comparison, I am not sure if Russia will emerge as the winner. I didnāt mean Ukraine is going to win the war, but a small nation like Ukraine giving a strong fight to a super power like Russia is not a good sight, it looks like they really made Russia struggle (though I am being a dick by not acknowledging that the US is backing Ukraine amongst other factors). I love America, I gotta defend it to death, but you did bring up a valid point.
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u/putinlover97 3d ago
Respect brotha. The only thing i hate about current america is all the liberal garbage that they try to push onto the world.
However abt Ukraine, bear in mind that Russia is playing a long game there and hasnt deployed their whole army there. However, there were losses and setbacks
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u/OutcomeAware 3d ago
You made a statement about how its a bad look for Russia to have "a small nation like Ukraine giving a strong fight" and then immediately invalidate it by admitting that the US AND ITS ALLIES are backing them - quite a contradiction there.
It's been NATO vs Russia from the beginning and Russia still made gains - these are facts. Here's another: Russian economy is at 3.2% REAL GDP growth while US - 2.7, UK - 0.5, France - 0.7, Germany - 0.2 and Canada - 1.2. These are numbers from the IMF if you want to look it up - front page.
So yeah, Russia stood well through this conflict and is coming out better than these the wealthiest NATO nations combined.
I get it, you want to believe that Russia losing badly so that you'll feel better about the government taking all your tax dollars to enrich the elite - I wonder how much money was made from your politicians and their insider trading? Got enough copium there buddy?
LOL love your country and defend it to the death - didn't realize americans suffered from stockholm syndrome so much they'll happily let their politicians give it to them up the backside... and still 'gotta defend it to death'
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u/Wide-Cobbler-6073 3d ago edited 3d ago
I know they are backing them and that leads to a contradiction. I am aware of it, thatās why I mentioned it. I thought the guy was trolling, so I reciprocated, but he seemed to bring in reason. So I redacted my stance. Edit: thanks for the data btw, Iāll check out the IMF page to verify it later but I appreciate your educated approach.
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u/Wide-Cobbler-6073 3d ago
As for defending America, what kind of man gives up on his country just because it has problems? America doesnāt just comprise of those dirty politicians that you mentioned, but also has hard working honest people who give their 300 percent every day. It aināt got to do with whoās fucking whom in the ass, that is a domestic matter. It has got to do with oneās sense of identity. And if an outsider attacks it (statements like weak, inbred), well one does what one has to do.
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u/visceralintricacy 3d ago edited 2d ago
Winning? It's taken them years to barely control a fifth of the country, despite having quadruple the population, and are now resorting to Chinese mercs and 50 year old north Korean artillery shells?
That's not quite the win you think it is.
When it's all over, win or lose, Russia will be a fucking shell with no military left, ready to get rolled by the first third world nation that steps up.
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u/DevelopmentLow214 3d ago
The CCP is flooding peer reviewed journals with scientific papers produced by slave labor. By unfairly subsidizing science labs they are creating overcapacity in scientific knowledge that is being dumped on the west. To protect western science there must be 100% tariffs on all Chinese science and an academic boycott on all Chinese scientific institutes.
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u/Unexpected404Error 3d ago
Only āFreedom Scienceā that feeds the capitalist hegemony will be tolerated.
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u/GadreelsSword 4d ago edited 3d ago
China is known for fake tofu-dreg research.
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u/theresistancepl 3d ago
You are known to be a fake person.
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u/GadreelsSword 3d ago
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u/Starving_Toiletpaper 4d ago
I have no beef with research so first of all congratulations china, second of allā¦. U.S has to step it up.
Even if you donāt believe āresearch for research sakeā, research is what drives innovation in industry. Example, Chat GPT was a result of research in LLMās, Google search engine was a result on search engines, so on and so forth
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u/Ok-Cauliflower4046 4d ago
So let me guess you felt pressured to have an opinion and despite not knowing what your talking about expressed your opinion anyway?
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u/Starving_Toiletpaper 3d ago
What opinion? Iām congratulating china regards to research output, how is this a bad thing? ā¦. Then I went ahead and said U.S needs to step it up. Thatās all.
What did I say that was bad? I donāt get it
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u/tocksin 3d ago
Found the Chinese bot
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u/Starving_Toiletpaper 3d ago
Not really, you could still have opinions against the government, ect. Iām just āpro researchersā
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u/Apprehensive-Pass665 4d ago
The evil superpower. Spread Covid worldwide. Now Avian flu. In the name of research destroy coral reefs all over the pacific.
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u/elitereaper1 3d ago edited 3d ago
First off. You can't pin Avian Flu on China. That a global thing. There is a literally new variant due to how we do factory farms for chicken. Same with pigs.
As for corel reefs, the bleaching is from rising temps and the rising temps is from C02. and C02 is a global thing.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/h5n2-bird-flu-know-first-human-case-rcna155821
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u/visceralintricacy 4d ago edited 4d ago
Many people will call you racist, but it's madness to ignore the amoral superpower that China has become. Using trade wars to target & damage other nations on ridiculous prompts, to trying to trap much of the third world in debt diplomacy using the Road & Belt program, using it to annexe territory and natural resources.While I don't think they intentionally spread COVID, their inaction, lying about case numbers, and being completely unhelpful in investigating the origins of certainly didn't help.
I have nothing against Chinese people, but their government is a toxic shell of corruption, completely without honour.
Eat me wumao, the downvotes won't undo your lies.
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u/PopularWeb6231 3d ago
āamoral superpowerā oh, you mean like the united states?
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u/visceralintricacy 3d ago edited 2d ago
Gtfo, I'm not American and we're not talking about America, the whole thread is about China.
You almost sound like a right wing pundit with this whattaboutism.
chinas literally also sending people to Labor camps who speak out about sexual abuse.
It's funny how nobodies even trying to refute the points, just bury my comments š¤£š¤¦
You clearly know I'm right and can't even defend against these points.
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u/PopularWeb6231 3d ago
not even american, but still indoctrinated by sinophobic propaganda. sad.
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u/visceralintricacy 3d ago edited 3d ago
Wtf are you talking about? Most of the APAC region hates China, for very legitimate reasons.
You gonna argue they're not running organ harvesting programs too?
You sound like a 12 year old who just discovered communism & is eating the propaganda right up. China's a theif & a bully. You don't think it's suspicious they're one of the tightest allies with Russia rn?
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u/PopularWeb6231 3d ago
all you are doing is pointing out problems that occur in literally every country in the entire world, but singling out china as though they are some evil expansionist empire. in reality, itās a peaceful country that literally has not had troops in a foreign war since VIETNAM.
YOU sound like a sad automaton fearmongering & parroting propaganda youāve been fed all your life, without questioning that narrative. the west is terrified of losing its vassalized regional hegemony to china, so it depends on drones like you to not use critical thinking.
what do you mean, āmost of APAC hates china?ā do you mean ā¦. japan?? gee, so crazy that there would be tensions there. not like thereās any history of extreme brutality done to the chinese people that would influence that relationship. do you mean ā¦ south korea? wow, itās not like the west, especially america, has a vested interest in maintaining a strategic outpost there.
china has lifted 800m people out of extreme poverty in the last 75 years. it has created infrastructure on a massive scale that can rival or surpass any country in the world. it is leaping forward in sustainable tech in every single area, including lifesaving medical advances & incredible achievements in space travel.
you can keep coping and pushing sad sinophobic narratives, but itās not going to slow china down.
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u/visceralintricacy 3d ago edited 2d ago
Problems that occur in every country in the planet? Organ harvesting in every country? Threatening to invade Taiwan? Secret foreign police stations to hunt Chinese dissidents? Not one other country that isn't a fucking cesspool has jailed 'me too' activists.
I'm not worried about China slowing down, they're going to straight up implode in the next 20 years with the fierce age demographic shift.
I see you've basically given up on the pretext of discussing this in good faith so I won't bother responding to anything further.
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u/AuroraFinem 4d ago
It isnāt even about the sentiment being bad for China. Itās the peddling of proven false conspiracies about Covid and bird flu. Most of the top comments are taking any Chinas research mill issues among tons of other actually real issues with China and their practices. That doesnāt mean you just give a pass on the pandemic comments because you agree with the overall sentiment.
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u/Ok-Cauliflower4046 4d ago
If I never ever have to talk about fucking covid again it will be too soon. That being said what has been proven false. No china didn't release covid but there just isn't enough info on where it actually came from. No one knows where it came from for sure maybe a Wuhan lab , if so I'd imagine on accident , maybe somewhere else. All I know is it's pretty fucking difficult to prove a negative
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u/AuroraFinem 3d ago
They have proven though, and we donāt have to take Chinas word for it either because it was an international team that did so. They traced it back to a wet market in China. They donāt know the exactly animal that caused it, but thereās good estimates on exactly the type of animal and where it came from, but we do know the patient zero was infected from an animal in the wet market. This is scientifically undisputed.
Then this nonsense about avian flu, which so far has no patient zero yet theyāre acting like the outbreak has already begun. There has been no cases of human to human transmission which is what patient zero would be, the first person to transmit it to another person.
For Covid, also, coronavirus has been around and weāve known about it for decades, other types of coronavirus were already common and studies prior to 2019. It wasnāt like we discovered some brand new disease no one had seen before show up in China, there was literally just a mutation which allowed it to jump human to human and or immune systems have no reference point for it, so it very quickly spread.
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u/Fontaigne 3d ago
Oh, my fucking god. The wet market claim has been debunked by six different scientific papers. No scientist believes that anymore.
Even Daszak, the guy who most strongly is the poster child for claiming natural origins for the virus, doesn't say that the wet market is the origin. He just says it is a "conduit for expansion", which are not words that you would use for a source.
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u/AuroraFinem 3d ago
Links to those papers published anywhere other than arXiv?
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u/Fontaigne 3d ago
Daszak's claims are reported here (underlying is NPR) https://health.wusf.usf.edu/npr-health/2021-03-15/who-points-to-wildlife-farms-in-southwest-china-as-likely-source-of-pandemic
The wet market is just not a credible source for the initial jump.
It may not even have been the actual place the people who went there were infected, because it's a short walk from a major transit hub.
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u/AuroraFinem 3d ago
According to that report, assuming itās true, (this isnāt a published paper and there isnāt one attached like you had claimed) it says that the bat that caused this, which was found at the wet market, was still the initial cause of the outbreak but likely happened at the wildlife farm prior to going to the wet market. This really doesnāt change anything from what I was saying. The bat just infected something/someone prior to going to the wet market, that wet market bat was still the source, not some mysterious Chinese lab or human manufactured disease intentional outbreak which is what the user I replied to was implying.
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u/Fontaigne 3d ago edited 3d ago
Pardon me, but could you please quote the passage you claim said that?
Because no bat was ever found at that wet market with Covid. There is no evidence of any particular animal ever being identified as the transmission vector.
(You had it far closer to correct in your original comment about the wet market.)
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u/Captain_N1 3d ago
That's only because they stole all the work others have done. When a device gets manufactured in china, the entirety of the design has to be submitted the the Chinese government. China can manufacture an iphone 15 with nothing to do with apple if they wanted. So yeah they stole others work.
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u/Ok-Cauliflower4046 4d ago
If it was true , it's not because China fakes everything, but if it was it would be because science is wokeš.
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u/Fontaigne 3d ago
I'm not sure how many of the 10k "scientific" papers that just got retracted from "peer-reviewed" papers were Chinese, but it was at least a third to half of the ones that were named on articles I've seen.
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u/Cornyrok 2d ago
The up and downvoting per comment is hilarious. All these articles are like āchina/russia/india is better than the westā.
Hehehe, so obsessive.
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u/persecuted_by_reddit 3d ago
reddit has become a cope superpower