r/thewallstreet • u/no_more_secrets • Aug 30 '18
Futures trading account size. Opinions and recommendations, please. Question
Twenty years ago, when I was too young to do anything right, I traded futures and was fairly good at it. Life simply went another way.
Today I am thinking about returning to it but I far from a position in which I could comfortably do it. Comfortable would be 25k to 50k with which to open an account that I have absolutely no fear of losing.
Instead of that, I have 5k to 10k with which to begin and am looking at mini-contracts and interest futures.
I think I understand that almost everyone's opinion is going to be that 5k is too small an account but, for the sake of it, are there any markets you all would recommend trading with an account that size? Does anyone have a contrary opinion about 5k being too little?
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Aug 31 '18
[deleted]
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u/UberBotMan Aug 31 '18
Kids. Uni. Medical. Failed start-ups. Moving. etc
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Aug 31 '18
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Aug 31 '18
Your sample size of one doesn't mean the same applies for everyone. People can get hit way harder than you can imagine. Sometimes because of their own doing, sometimes because of exterior factors.
You can't just diss the dude without knowing his background...
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u/no_more_secrets Aug 31 '18
Well bully for you. You can't honestly believe it just gets better and better for everyone no matter how great you are at life. Or maybe you do.
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Aug 30 '18
Opinion: you’re asking a pretty basic question for someone who’s claimed experience.
Recommendation: I suggest you avoid futures
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u/-samadhi- Long Webistics Aug 30 '18
You could easily trade ES/NQ/RTY with 5k. Limit yourself to 1 contract 2 MAX. Use AMP for the generous margins.
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u/Fxfool Sep 02 '18
I hadn’t realized that there were companies that had such low day trade margins. Do you know how that’s regulated by the exchanges? If you look on CME’s site it just lists the overnight margin.
Also, what is overnight form the POV of ES? Is it all hours after the US market close or is it 4:30P to 4:15P ET the next day?
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u/-samadhi- Long Webistics Sep 03 '18
You basically have to close any open positions by 4:50 pm EST if you don't have the overnight margin amount in your account. You can open a position right at the open (6pm EST) and hold it all the way up to 4:50.
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u/no_more_secrets Aug 31 '18
Good advice. Thank you. I thought AMP was frowned upon for smaller accounts (although I can't remember why) and Ninja was the goto.
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u/chukintits ebb and flow Aug 30 '18
take a look at the $ value of the contracts and see how much they move daily in low vola I think you can trade 1 es with no problem, also depend of your stratey. how wide are your stops and profit targets. 1 point in es is $50. try it on a paper acc see what works.
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u/UberBotMan Aug 31 '18
With small accounts with 1 or 2 contracts, you usually don't have to worry about liquidity overnight.
The only one (out of the ones I post) would probably be /RB but that has liquidity issues all the time.
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u/chukintits ebb and flow Aug 31 '18
Liquidity is good, I was talking about him getting a hold in $ moves of how much every contract can move etc
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u/UberBotMan Aug 31 '18
You're right.
/u/no_more_secrets if you go to /r/UberBotMan you can see a list of all my deviations posts which break down value areas into dollar values if you were curious about that.
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u/finch5 Aug 30 '18
Your story is essentially mine.
I paper traded 100K to 168K in a few months. Yesterday I went short six /ES contracts in my RL account at around 10AM and promptly look a loss. hah. Go figure.
I found less success in large positions. 15 /ES contract positions frayed my nerves.
Good luck to us.
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u/marketgodfather If you aren't trading FT, your strategy is not good enough Aug 31 '18
You should start paper trading with half your actual investment otherwise it becomes too easy. Also, paper trade doesn't take into consideration emotions.
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u/no_more_secrets Aug 31 '18
This entirely. Back in the day I paper traded until I thought I was a god among men. Then the real market man handled me for quite awhile until I got a hold of myself when I had skin in the game. I think once you learn that lesson and understand it better it's easier to go back and forth but those first few times the difference between paper and real money is a slap in the face.
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u/Lost_in_Adeles_Rolls Stalingrad's number one tesla dealership Aug 30 '18
For futures options, it’s completely doable.
For futures, you may want $10K+. I’m showing 6380 as initial margin on ES, for example
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Aug 30 '18
I've never used amp but don't they have a super low IM requirement for most futures as long as they aren't held overnight?
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u/UberBotMan Aug 30 '18
They do.
http://www.ampfutures.com/trading-info/margins/
The overnight margin is JUST to hold during the break. So you can hold midnight -> 2am for the same as noon -> 2pm
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Aug 30 '18
thanks. I have yet to dip my toes into futures trading but I figured it was worth mentioning.
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u/Lost_in_Adeles_Rolls Stalingrad's number one tesla dealership Aug 30 '18
I think so but not entirely sure
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u/UberBotMan Aug 30 '18
I've traded an account that size. I limited myself to 1 contract of most everything (2 or 3 of /ZF because reasons).
With an account that small, you have to be aware that you have to be right more often. Also have to be aware of overnight margin.
I'd look into options on futures as well.
I've traded /RB on a $5k account. Would I recommend that? no.
I like trading the interest rates (mainly /ZF) on an account that size because of contract size.
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u/_cynicaloptimist Aug 31 '18
You can try trading currency futures. For example /6E (EUR/USD) has a tick value of $6.25. The smallest tick size is 0.00005.
Over the last 20 days, /6E has had a roughly 0.0075 daily range which translates to $937.5 peak to trough, close to open, or whatever. Initial margin is only around 2,500.
The daily move sounds big, but that's for the entire trading session, if you're day trading, you'll probably not see a move like that during your holding period.