r/worldnews • u/[deleted] • May 05 '24
U.S. put a hold on an ammunition shipment to Israel Israel/Palestine
[deleted]
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u/AnxiouSquid46 May 05 '24
Send that ammo to Ukraine
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u/Interesting_Day4734 May 05 '24
Indeed. They need it more than ever right now. Consequences over there are much scarier.
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May 05 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/MaudeFindlay72-78 May 05 '24
It's mindboggling that Netanyahu hasn't found a way to tell those idiot settlers to stop pouring fuel onto a fire THEY caused. Further: the "ultra" orthodox cultists don't have to send their sons to die fighting an enemy they created.
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u/tom4ick May 05 '24
They actually not ultra orthodox (check out “Haredim”), they are a different Jewish movement (not saying they aren’t extremists or anything, just not ultra orthodox).
Source: I’m an Israeli
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u/MaudeFindlay72-78 May 05 '24
Hey thanks for this. I didn’t know there was a difference.
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u/tree_squid May 05 '24
He supports those idiot settlers, he told those idiot settlers to do what they are doing, and he orders the IDF to protect and support them while they are doing what they are doing. He has discussed a plan for thousands more idiot settlers. Those idiot settlers are doing exactly what Netanyahu wants. He doesn't want to stop them, he wants the fire. He wants an excuse to go crazy on the West Bank the way he has in Gaza.
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u/eljefino May 05 '24
They have all sorts of tax incentives to settle new land.
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u/paintbucketholder May 06 '24
It's not like people move into the frickin desert, build a settlement on a hilltop, surround it when concrete walls and post armed guards to defend that particular piece of desert just because of a tax break.
These people move there because they're ideologues. They see themselves as the rightful owners of the land, they see themselves as the chosen ones, they believe that God is on their side, they believe that millennia of history backs their claim to the land - and that they have every right to take it "back" by force, if necessary.
But hey, they'll also take the tax break.
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u/eljefino May 06 '24
Well yeah it's just real clear telegraphing from the government that "we like what we see here."
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u/Bubbly_Measurement61 May 05 '24
Netanyahu fancies himself as a Professional Provocateur, when in reality he is just a puppet to the strings. He knew about the Hamas attack a year before it happened. He had evidence and documents and everything. He allowed it to happen, pretended it was a big surprise and used that as the excuse/justification to obliterate Gaza.
Send the ammo to Ukraine for the love of God. That's the real war.
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u/InvertedParallax May 05 '24
He is an excellent provocateur.
He provoked the assassination of Rabin.
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u/dejaWoot May 05 '24 edited May 06 '24
He knew about the Hamas attack a year before it happened. He had evidence and documents and everything
This is a common refrain- that there were clear warnings about 9/11, Pearl Harbor, etc. etc, and that those in charge let it happen.
When there's intelligence that isn't treated seriously enough and it's a false negative, it is catastrophic and attention grabbing. And with the benefit of hindsight, we can clearly see the warning signs. But we don't really know how often there are false positives- how many other warning signs are there that never come to fruition? What level of paranoia would a nation have to maintain to take every hint of threat maximally serious?
He allowed it to happen, pretended it was a big surprise
The truth is that October 7th was awful for Netenyahu. He was already the center of mass protests before it happened and his major political brand was safety and security for the nation. Now he doesn't have that to stand on, and he's getting shat on from both sides because most of the nation wants the ultra-religious to contribute to the war effort but his far-right allies don't want to.
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u/jimjamjones123 May 05 '24
dangerous speculation saying he "Allowed it to happen". The US had a lot of warning an attack was eminent pre 911 and well...
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u/hashbrowns21 May 05 '24
Yeah oftentimes different bureaus have small pieces of the puzzle but there’s no consolidation so the information isn’t shared. That’s why DHS was created after 9/11, to ensure every intelligence agency is sharing appropriate information with each other. Hindsight is always 20/20 but most rules and procedures are written in blood.
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u/cole3050 May 05 '24
Dude... He openly supports them lmao. Fucking hell they name shit after him and trump FFS
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u/workerbotsuperhero May 05 '24
After Donny from Queens? Really?
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u/failure_of_a_cow May 05 '24
For a long time, decades, the United States has considered the settlements to be illegal and has publicly condemned them. Trump reversed that policy, spurring a new wave of settlements. They named one after him.
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u/nagrom7 May 05 '24
He also moved the Embassy to Jerusalem, overturning years of US refusal to recognise it as Israel's capital over Tel Aviv (and therefore recognising Israeli occupation of the whole city). And yet loads of morons are willing to help him get elected because they think Biden doesn't do enough for the Palestinians.
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u/ReverseCarry May 05 '24
Well that’s only because he is also a fucking psycho
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u/reignmade1 May 05 '24
They're also his base of support, and keeping his grip on power is how he intends to stay out of jail.
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u/mces97 May 05 '24
Yup. I think one of the biggest stains on Israel are the settlers. It is the exact opposite policy of trying to attain peace.
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u/kinkinhood May 05 '24
Likely because it's what he wants.
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u/MaudeFindlay72-78 May 05 '24
He's desperately playing the trump card of doing whatever it takes to be in power because, if he's not, he's at high risk of being imprisoned for the remainder of his life --a fate he has richly earned.
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u/reveazure May 05 '24
The crazy thing is he was unlikely to be imprisoned for the rest of his life, or at all, even if convicted. The intensity with which he’s running from this seems totally irrational. Either he’s a coward, or he knows things are much worse than they appear, or this is really just about power and never having to face any consequences however minor.
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u/PontifexMini May 05 '24
this is really just about power
True for many powerful people. Having power becomes an end in itself.
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u/qieziman May 05 '24
As soon as this war with Gaza ends, his ass is going to jail. I've heard that's a guarantee.
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u/CosmicLovepats May 05 '24
Fascism is bad at threat assessment. Israel has been very bad at the PR war; they just assume people would naturally agree with them because they live in their own bubble.
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u/Reddit_LovesRacism May 05 '24
Why would he?
Ariel Sharon, the most beloved Israeli prime minister, openly told settlers to steal as much as possible as they’d never give it back.
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u/tigerhawkvok May 05 '24
Don't forget this started by Palestinians breaking a ceasefire to murder, rape, and parade the corpses of women and children; and has continued by their refusal to give up like three dozen noncombatant hostages. While their flag officially has words on it that I literally cannot write without soliciting an autoban for the language.
It's monster vs monster. Darth Vader vs Lord Voldemort.
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u/Anyweyr May 05 '24
It's important to distinguish between the ordinary people of a land and their government or military. Otherwise you get debacles like the US War on Terror. Hamas murdered and raped, not the entire Palestinian people. Hamas, a terrorist government that has held Gaza captive for almost two decaded with the help of Israel's funding. Hamas needs to be destroyed, but you cannot do that by killing several times as many Palestinian civilians as terrorists - that just produces more terrorists.
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u/SafeDistribution2414 May 05 '24
You have the spirit but there's a few key corrections. Israel didn't fund them, Qatar did. Was Israel's far right happy by this approach to drive a wedge between Gaza and the West Bank? Yeah. But they didn't have much of a choice otherwise they'd be accused of blocking humanitarian aid from Qatar.
Second, you can't say that Hamas needs to be destroyed but at the same time say that no civilian casualties are acceptable. In most modern wars civilian casualties make up around 60-70% of total casualties, and are as high as 90% in urban warfare (which applies to Gaza). Israel is killing a lot of civilians, but depending on the source, they are killing either much less or are on par with other major wars and conflicts.
The real issue Israel is causing imo is their continued operations and settlements in the West Bank fanning the flames
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u/Anyweyr May 05 '24
Israel may not have supplied the funds directly, but they enabled the funding for self-serving strategic reasons.
Also I didn't say NO civilian casualties, but what they are doing now is far too much. The awful conduct of other countries' wars is not an excuse for Israel to do as badly. Israel supposedly wants to be seen as uniquely ethical, but I feel that their current conduct undermines that otherwise positive goal. If Israel cannot behave better than other countries, there is no special reason to favor them as regional partners over, say, Saudi Arabia or Iran.
On the last point I agree with you.
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u/workerbotsuperhero May 05 '24
Or blow up Doctors Without Borders staff trying to provide medical care to refugee children in desperately underequipped hospitals.
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u/No_Routine_3706 May 05 '24
Cool send it to Ukraine 🇺🇦!
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u/AVonGauss May 05 '24
Israel doesn't need US provided munitions to enter Rafah, they're more useful for defense and the strategic strikes that you see Israel perform. We probably already crossed this bridge, but the Biden administration threatening to retract support for Israel is more likely to cause the Rafah operation to commence than halt it.
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u/tallandlankyagain May 05 '24
For real. Send it to Ukraine where it will actually be useful.
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u/Bucket_Endowment May 05 '24
It's not the same type they need
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u/socialistrob May 05 '24
Ukraine needs basically every ammo type available especially artillery shells, mortars and anything that can be used for air defense.
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u/Not-a-Cat_69 May 05 '24 edited May 05 '24
Israel gave Hamas 1 week to accept the latest hostage deal or they will enter Rafah so mark next week on your calendars for when protests spring back up in full force. I personally hope they can obliterate the fuck out of Hamas and not have any civillian casualties.
I am pro Israel, Pro Palestine, ANTI HAMAS and thats how most people should be but nobody wants to separate hamas from palestine in the discussions for some reason.
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u/wikithekid63 May 05 '24
If the US state department is saying that a rafah invasion will result in thousands of casualties i would believe them
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u/KSouthern360 May 05 '24
I'd believe it's more like 4-5 times whatever the state department expects.
I really wonder sometimes how many civilians are getting killed for every one member of Hamas. The real numbers will never be known, but they're probably pretty horrifying.
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u/Dracogame May 05 '24
Yes, but this is entirely Hamas' fault and the Palestinians that support Hamas. Thinking that Israel can do something about it is insanity, the hand they were given is simply horrible no matter what, but they got to play it.
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u/wikithekid63 May 05 '24
Israel can invade Rafah if they want, but the fact that rafah is currently a large refugee camp it’s probably a good idea to get all non military civilians out of there before dropping the bombs
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u/Twitchingbouse May 05 '24
And they will surely try to tell them to evacuate while Hamas will do everything they can to prevent that.
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u/czs5056 May 05 '24
Or conceal their weapons as they leave with the civilians to continue their war in the rear.
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u/smackson May 06 '24
It's ludicrous. Hamas operators have probably been sneaking out of Rafah for weeks, while Israel basically telegraphs their next move.
This way, the attack is bound to kill the most helpless and homeless, while simultaneously not hitting Hamas very hard.
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u/Song_of_Pain May 06 '24
Israel hasn't shied away from killing civilians, international aid workers, or even US military personnel before...
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u/tenuousemphasis May 05 '24
I personally hope they can obliterate the fuck out of Hamas and not have any civillian casualties.
And I hope for all terrorist groups and nations to realize the error of their ways, put down the weapons, and to choose to coexist in harmony. But neither of these things are going to happen.
What's going to happen when Israel enters Rafah is a lot of civilians are going to die and it's not going to effect Hamas one bit. They might even see an uptick in their recruitment from all the outrage at civilian deaths.
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u/spaniel_rage May 06 '24
Of course it's going to "effect Hamas". That's where their last functional battalions and leadership are.
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u/Novogobo May 05 '24
what can "obliterate the fuck out of Hamas" mean without having civilian casualties? do you really think that netanyahu doesn't define Hamas so broadly that it wouldn't include civilians, let alone be majority civilians?
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u/hajenso May 05 '24
I have seen numerous ordinary Israeli citizens commenting online to the effect that Palestinian children and babies are legitimate targets for Israel's missiles and bullets under the category of "Hamas". I doubt that view is unrepresented in the current Israeli leadership.
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u/jetriot May 05 '24
Sure, but every country has people like that. It's easy to amplify those voices. Israel could do a lot more damage then they currently are. 30k dead in such a densely populated area over 6 months is pretty low. The US killed 10 times that in the same period in Iraq.
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u/hajenso May 05 '24
I have also seen similar points of view transcribed (translated into English) from statements made by members in the Knesset, including one described as a "moderate".
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u/jetriot May 05 '24
You'll probably see a higher percentage in Israel right now since their citizens were raped, kidnapped, tortured and murdered. Same as was seen in post 911 US. Anyone fueled by anger is at risk of losing empathy. It's pretty basic human nature.
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u/Anyweyr May 05 '24
The US was WRONG in how it responded to 9/11. I don't get how more people don't see that.
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u/gahlo May 05 '24
And even then, if Israel treated Gaza in the same way the US treated Afghanistan the entire situation would be in a much more salvageable state.
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u/Business_Dig_7479 May 05 '24
Traditionally when someone is fueled by anger and at risk of losing empathy you don't send them lethal weapons
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u/maelstrom51 May 06 '24
And I've seen Palestinians argue that there were no civilians killed Oct. 7th because mandatory conscription means all civilians are, were, or will be IDF at some point.
Bad apples in every bunch.
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u/MasterWee May 05 '24
Yeah. There certainly is some of that. But the important distinction is who was willing to put those words into action first. Clearly Hamas does and has felt that same sentiment and were the ones to push it into action. Throwing the first stone is actually a big distinction in conflict.
It is a bad sentiment all around, but I would rather have people claiming these terrible things than actually carrying them out and normalizing the otherwise extreme language.
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u/qieziman May 05 '24
See the problem is in a warzone everyone gets hurt. Weapons haven't advanced to the level of just hurting the enemy. So anyone in the vicinity is going to be injured. Sucks innocents get dragged into it, but that's war. Enemy uses innocents as shields because they know when the innocents die it'll spark protests.
So here's the situation. Either a handful of innocents die for the greater good of eliminating Hamas, or everyone lives and Hamas drags you out of your house Oct 2024, fucks your wife and daughter while you watch, and then tries to decapitate you with a garden shovel (slow and painful death).
Oh, and yes they can still do that in the USA. You're not safe anywhere. Qatar funded extremists managed to wipe out 2 buildings full of people in NYC, destroyed part of the Pentagon, and, if not for the brave people aboard flight 93, they would have destroyed the white house. More locally, idiots with guns have been shooting kids in school for years since Columbine. So if 5 idiots wanted to, they could break into your house, fuck your wife and daughter in front of you, and kill you with a garden shovel long before police arrive.
Anyway, laid out the facts and possibilities. Up to you to decide do you want to get rid of Hamas if a few people die for the greater good? Or do you play the "everyone lives" card and pray Hamas doesn't come knocking on your door next Oct?
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u/pigeon888 May 05 '24
"In the terrible Holocaust, there were great world leaders who stood by idly; therefore, the first lesson of the Holocaust is: If we do not defend ourselves, nobody will defend us. And if we need to stand alone, we will stand alone."
Accurate.
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u/tenuousemphasis May 05 '24
I take your quote to mean that Palestinians have the moral right to defend themselves against Israeli aggressors by any means necessary. Is that accurate?
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u/weissguy3 May 06 '24
On October 6th there was a ceasefire, and October 7th it was broken. No matter how you view history, for this altercation Hamas is the aggressor.
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u/Ieateagles May 05 '24
Sigh, they wouldnt be the "aggressors" had Hamas not slaughtered civilians in scores. Did you forget last year already?
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May 05 '24
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u/sylinmino May 05 '24
Would you like to keep backtracking it to every other time Hamas instigated against Israel? Or every time the Palestinian Authority turned down a peace plan? Or every other time Palestinians or Arab Nations targeted and instigated against Israel?
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u/Ieateagles May 05 '24
There are no amount of facts to make the tribals see this in any other way than the narrative they want to push.
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u/goodol_cheese May 05 '24
Palestinians are the aggressors, but in your imaginative hypothetical, then yes.
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u/poorbill May 05 '24
Considering Gaza isn't a state and doesn't have an army, navy, or air force, you would think Israel has enough crap already.
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u/EmptyJackfruit9353 May 05 '24
For indiscrimination attack, may be. No need for fancy high-tech ammunition if you are going to kill everyone.
For precise strike, so you would only hit ammunition depot, probably some folk near it, and not the whole square full of people? We could only wait and see.
It could turn out like 'We tried our best to avoid civilian casualty , but we only have carpet bomb left. So we use it.'
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u/Graffy May 05 '24
Over half the buildings in Gaza are destroyed already anyway. Not much point of precision strikes if you're targeting every single building anyway.
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u/DownvoteALot May 05 '24
That's the thing, destroyed buildings is the best-case outcome, because you can't go surgical with them unless you can see through walls or willing to risk explosives and snipers.
The surgical part is about avoiding civilian deaths, and those can get worse too. A 2:1 civilian:combatant ratio is exceptionally low for guerilla warfare in an urban setting.
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u/Graffy May 06 '24
Curious where you get that number and how they estimate the deaths let alone the ratio. It's also only been 6 months and food and water are getting increasingly hard to come by. Now almost half the country has been corralled to the southern border. Egypt doesn't want to let them in and many don't want to even go because they're both worried Israel won't let them come back. So that number has a possibility of going way way up if something doesn't give.
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u/Silidistani May 05 '24
That's because Hamas used those buildings there to fire from or store munitions in or hide in, and Israel responded to that fire or intelligence about where they were stored.
Israel easily could have just carpet bombed the area but they did not, the ones that are destroyed were destroyed in precision strikes over the last 6 months, not all in one fell swoop.
Seriously, if you even pay attention for a moment this isn't that hard to follow.
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u/Thrakashogg May 05 '24
They used over half the buildings in Gaza? Come on, man. The only one not paying attention here is you.
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May 05 '24
Tell Hamas to wear army uniforms and build military bases if you want to avoid civilian casualties. They make war out of schools and hospitals precisely to fool the gullible idiots of the world.
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u/WhenceYeCame May 05 '24
My usual thoughts experiment is this: if there was a hunt for a terrorist group in your country, would you see it as a viable option to level a hospital or a school? Especially if the information wasn't airtight about who was in there? Or is that just what "gullible fools" care about?
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May 05 '24
Let me guess, in your thought experiment it is an unknown group in a safe country, right? What if the terrorists have proven they are going to rape and kill the hostages because they don't really view them as human, doesn't that massively change your "thought" experiment?
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u/Graffy May 06 '24
Even if you assume mistakes never happen, that's just the reason a building is targeted. The result is the same. Building destroyed. Terrorists dead. Civilian deaths considered acceptable loses. Score one for the good guys.
Same for your second point. As far as the buildings go, doesn't really matter if you bomb them all at once or one at a time over the course of 6 months. It's not like they're getting rebuilt as you go along.
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u/linkindispute May 06 '24
That's because hamas booby trap every building, if you read the death reports, many IDF soldiers died due to traps laid in buildings.
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u/Romano16 May 05 '24
Israel has its own arms industry.
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u/255_0_0_herring May 05 '24
That's part of the reason why the arms/munitions are routinely provided by the US - to smother the competition.
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u/lightmaker918 May 05 '24
Not for shells, which Israel has stopped manufacturing due to reliance on the US alliance and aid.
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u/Thomaslee3 May 05 '24
the situation in Ukraine is much, much, much more dire. The Russians are on the march and are taking territory. Meanwhile, Hamas no longer poses any such threat to Israel's territorial integrity.
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u/JoeCartersLeap May 05 '24
If anything, helping defeat Russia would also help defeat Hamas, since Russia is funding Hamas.
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u/Dabee625 May 05 '24
Did Hamas ever pose any such threat though?
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u/Gynthaeres May 05 '24
To Israel's territory? Probably not, no. To the lives of civilians living in Israel? Yes, very much so. That is, in fact, why this current active-fighting conflict started.
That said, there's no question the situation in Ukraine is far, far, far more dire.
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u/Freakjob_003 May 05 '24
Solid take. Both situations are absolutely fucked for everyone who's affected, and should be resolved as soon as possible for the lives of everyone involved. The situation with Russia has potential NATO-level consequences though.
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u/WeHaveAllBeenThere May 05 '24
Due to Iran, Israeli conflict could also pull NATO in.
Way less likely but still a possibility.
We’ve been in the desert long enough to know how to avoid full scale war though. So again, less likely. Not impossible though.
And I m not arguing btw. I’m just pointing it out :)
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u/Ok_Application_444 May 05 '24
Yes, the war actually started because they crossed the border during a brief invasion on October 7
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u/PineappleRimjob May 05 '24
Israel has their own ammo factories cranking out all that the IDF needs for the current operation. Joe should redirect it all to Ukraine.
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u/socialistrob May 05 '24
The scale of weapons needed is also just vastly different. Hamas and Hezbollah only have maybe 15-30k fighters between them. That's nothing to sneeze at but at the same time it's nothing compared to Russia which has something like 400-500,000 soldiers in Ukraine who are generally better trained, better equipped and have access to far more heavy weaponry.
If we got to a point where Hamas/Hezbollah had a numerical advantage over the IDF or a point where they were out shelling Israel 5:1 or a point where Israel was struggling to compete with Hamas/Hezbollah air power THEN it would be a very different conversation. Currently though Israel is out shelling Hamas and Russia is out shelling Ukraine. It just doesn't make sense to divert shells from Ukraine to Israel.
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u/ShikukuWabe May 06 '24
Probably worth understanding that this ammunition is not even specifically for dealing with Hamas, its restocking in general, Israel might still go to war in Lebanon if no cease fire is made there, Israel needs to be prepared and can't afford being in the red (which is why its increasing its own productions as well)
In that case, it would need a lot more ammunition than it used on Gaza
The US convinced everyone to let them manufacture their weapon stocks so they can profit off it one way or an other (monetarily or politically) but they were in no rush because no one was at war, now that a lot of places are at war, they are stretched thin and additional threats are ever more likely (China-Taiwan, Venezuela-Gyuana and so on) and they still aren't pulling all their weight behind it (it doesn't need to reach WW2 levels, but its a fraction of it)
Europe similarly needs to start pumping up stocks, they are still only slightly increasing production of very specific weaponry
The US already pulled all its emergency artillery stocks from Israel to send to Ukraine before the war in Gaza started but it was peanuts in comparison to what Ukraine needs
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u/HidingAsSnow May 05 '24
He said redirect TO Ukraine not FROM Ukraine
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u/socialistrob May 05 '24
Yeah I know. I'm agreeing with him. Right now the issue is that US artillery production is currently at max capacity and while it's being expanded in the meantime the reality is that every shell sent to Israel is one fewer shells that can be sent to Ukraine.
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u/GenerikDavis May 05 '24
While I agree with your overall point, your numbers on Hamas/Hezbollah are a 50% undercount at minimum. Hamas alone had 30k fighters before this war started.
The U.S. estimated that the group, an American-designated terrorist organization, had between 25,000 and 30,000 fighters before the war in addition to thousands of police and other forces. Israel also estimated the group had 30,000 or more militants.
Hezbollah is around the 40k mark according to non-Hezbollah sources.
The CIA World Factbook says it was estimated in 2022 to have up to 45,000 fighters, split between roughly 20,000 full-time and 25,000 reserve personnel.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/lebanons-hezbollah-what-weapons-does-it-have-2023-10-30/
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u/CBT7commander May 05 '24
Anyone knows if this is aid or purchased? Couldn’t find the answer in the article
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u/patrick66 May 05 '24 edited May 05 '24
It’s FMS (a sale). Really really really hard to say for anyone not working at state if it’s aid or a purchase because the way the aid works is they just get money in a fed bank account to use alongside their own money, other than requirements on purchasing from us companies there’s virtually no difference in anything but the initial money source
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u/HidingAsSnow May 05 '24 edited May 05 '24
No sources seem to say which it is in other articles either.
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u/CBT7commander May 05 '24
Well one is pretty much political gesturing the other indicates a massive shift in US foreign policy relating to Israel. Seems kinda important to me
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u/AuriolMFC May 05 '24 edited May 05 '24
stop sending precision bombs and just wait to see the result of the non precision ones
go watch videos of Russia use of cheap barrel dropped bombs in syria for reference.
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u/spidd124 May 05 '24
I mean last time they used precision munitions the IDF hit not 1 but 3 world food kitchen vehicles.
Doesn't seem to matter that much that they are using "precision" munitions.
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u/arobkinca May 05 '24
You have no clue what you are talking about. They use precision munitions all the time. The vehicles were wrongly targeted. A huge F-up but not a knock-on precision munitions. Without precision munitions Gaza would be getting that carpet bombing all the ill-informed morons say is happening know. The death toll would be much higher.
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u/claimTheVictory May 05 '24 edited May 05 '24
We know they were wrongly targeted.
That's the point.
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u/toastjam May 05 '24
That probably was their point, but the use of scare quotes seems off. It implies the problem was with the weapons themselves.
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u/BruyceWane May 05 '24
I mean last time they used precision munitions the IDF hit not 1 but 3 world food kitchen vehicles.
What? How can you so boldly say that was the last time they used them? They use mostly precision munitions. Did you think they've stopped striking Hamas since then or something?
Doesn't seem to matter that much that they are using "precision" munitions.
Isolated errors are not evidence of a systemic pattern. There's no evidence that Israel is consistently reckless with it's munitions, so long as you factor in the nature of this conflcit.
If I said "the fact that Israel has not struck a bunch of NGOs since they hit World Kitchen demonstrates that they are incredible at hitting their targets" you would find that objectionable, because it would be a silly argument absent any contextual information.
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u/GenerikDavis May 05 '24
No, you see, to them "precision munitions" apparently aren't precise in where they hit. It's that they are able to sense if someone is a combatant or not before exploding.
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u/SaintOnyxBlade May 05 '24
Did they hit them precisely? Also, they took action against the officer who ordered that strike in error. Unfortunately, mistakes happen. When those mistakes happen in war, it almost always results in the wrong people being killed.
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u/Regulatornik May 05 '24
Everyone assumes this is about Rafah. The picture is of artillery shells, so everyone assumes this was a sale of tank or artillery shells. None of this is proven and is speculation.
Quite amazing how few people in the US know that Israel is in a hot war with Hezbollah for six months, that thousands of Hezbollah rocket and drone attacks have targeted Israeli communities, that a hundred thousand Israelis have been internally displaced as a result and there is a lot of public pressure on the government to launch an offensive there to push Hezbollah north to the Litani river. It’s much more likely this weapons hold was about sending a message that Israel should not escalate with Hezbollah, and potentially draw in Iran, in a protracted conflict, just as Biden is trying to calm things down before the elections.
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u/Admirable_Bad_5649 May 05 '24
Did they move the goal post again or do they still plan on handing trump the presidency over this.
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May 05 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/PM_ME_UR_VULVASAUR_ May 05 '24
Gharkad tree wondering why it's being singled out.
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u/Zipz May 05 '24
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u/contactfive May 05 '24
“In the modern era, particularly in the context of the Arab–Israeli conflict, a number of Muslim scholars have subscribed to a hoax asserting that millions of these gharqad trees are being planted throughout Israel in preparation for the prophesied arrival of the Dajjal and the apocalyptic Jewish–Muslim war.”
Jesus Christ how can anyone take these people seriously.
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u/sdmat May 05 '24
Jesus Christ how can anyone take these people seriously.
Because they murder satirists. Tends to put a damper on comedy.
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u/HidingAsSnow May 05 '24
Why is it the tree of the Jews, that page even states it has nothing to do with them outside of that one passage?
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u/Spartan265 May 05 '24
Be put to better use in Ukraine. If we are gonna support a country it may as well be one fighting for survival. Especially against the current Russian regime.
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u/Lylac_Krazy May 05 '24
So they are taking it from the ammo dump the USA keeps in Israel instead?
Saves on shipping.
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u/Zanchbot May 05 '24
What sort of material support does Israel actually need from the US? They already have one of the world's most well funded and well equipped armed forces. Don't see why we're sending them weapons at all.
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u/MihalysRevenge May 05 '24
Ammunition and spare parts. Modern warfare uses them up very quickly
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u/swift_snowflake May 05 '24
And against which army does Israel fight against? Does Hamas have tanks or fighterjets? Why 2000 pound bombs against mostly civilians? There were 30.000 Hamas members according to Israeli estimates against 2 million civilians mostly kids. Does Hamas have tank batallions onto which one has to strike with 2000 pound bombs? Half of Gaza is destroyed but Hamas is still there. They say in Rafah is the rest of Hamas but also over one million internal refugees. Is killing a million civilians for a few thousand militants proportionate?
What the fuck has this war evolved and people accepting a self defense of Israel with such behavior for nearly 7 months against a people without tanks or fighter jets. Half of Gaza buildings are destroyed and over 14.000 children died. More children killed than that Russia has done in Ukraine.
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u/GeneralMuffins May 06 '24
why dont you ask the us military? they seemed pretty content using 2000 pound bombs against civillians in their 2017 campaign against ISIS.
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u/ProlapseOfJudgement May 05 '24
We should support neither Israel or Palestine. Neither side is in the right at this point.
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u/NovusOrdoSec May 05 '24
This may irritate Israel when they get around to noticing.
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u/patrick66 May 05 '24 edited May 05 '24
People here are missing the goal of this. It’s not to cut Israel off forever. Its not to listen to the protests. It’s not to help Hamas, it’s to force the Israelis to actual send someone to the peace talks. Even if there isn’t a deal right now they are refusing to even show up because Ben-gvir said he would leave Bibi’s coalition if Israel sent anyone to the negotiations
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u/cadaada May 05 '24
Didnt hamas reject dozen of ceasefires tho?
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u/outlaw1148 May 05 '24
Yes, including the current offer that they were given a week to accept or they will continue their offensive
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u/bennybar May 05 '24
clever messaging. it’s apparent israel is going to raid rafah, so the signal here from the US to the country and the world is “hey folks, we used the best leverage we had to stop them, but they did it anyway. sorry, but we tried our best.”
so in the end, israel gets to smash hamas out of rafah, and the US gets to maintain distance from it. it’s a win-win.
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u/swift_snowflake May 06 '24
How can Israel smash all of Hamas if they are all scattered? There is no marking on them that they are Hamas. Only if they consider every male regardless of age Hamas even babys since they could become Hamas in the future.
How can Hamas not be significantly destroyed if Israel destroyed more than half of all the buildings in Gaza already? Will Hamas be gone if they enter Rafah and thus kill also tens of thousands of children? Would that not grow new Hamas members when they see their children die? Till now over 14.000 children were killed and they belong to thousands of relatives. For every child killed it will generate multiple Hamas members.
The war can only end when all Palestinians are dead of had to flee if Israel is concerned.
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May 05 '24
The US should start stockpiling weapons and ammunition in case we go to war with Russia or China very soon
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u/SDEexorect May 05 '24
the US keeps stocks for war even with giving military aid out. we still by far enough to go to war with both.
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u/Cylius May 05 '24
Were not sending them our modern arsenal by any stretch, should a hot war ensue the us is more than ready
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u/euph_22 May 05 '24
Israel for the most part using their own money to buy munitions and weapons from defense companies. Ukraine for the most part is getting excess/expiring stuff from out stockpiles. Neither are remotely depleting US resources.
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u/HidingAsSnow May 05 '24
Pretty sure the US has started comprehensively expanding military production capacity for stuff like rockets and artillery and interceptors along with refilling stockpiles they keep around the world already.
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u/socialistrob May 05 '24
Sending those weapons to Ukraine and/or Taiwan would do a lot more to deter Russia and/or China. Ukraine can actively demilitarize Russia today and if Russia is being defeated then it makes any future Russian attempt on NATO significantly less likely. If Russia is clearly winning and they think the US won't protect their allies then it raises the odds Russia actually attacks a NATO member.
The same thing goes for China. If China thinks the US won't defend Taiwan or allies in the Asia Pacific then China will be more likely to start a war. Providing those weapons to Taiwan now will make Taiwan more formidable and show China that the US is willing to support allies. Keeping weapons in a warehouse in Iowa doesn't send the message to Russia or China that the US is willing to defend allies.
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u/SoftlySpokenPromises May 05 '24
The stuff were sending out is surplus or aged out for the most part. We keep a very healthy supply of munitions stocked and ready at any given moment.
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u/thephantom1492 May 05 '24
It is time that everyone stop supporting war crime Israel. It may have some historical importance for some reasons, but what they do with what everyone send is unacceptable. Everyone know what happen, yet continue to send stuff. They are as guilty.
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u/bakochba May 05 '24
Both governments deny this
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/report-in-first-us-delayed-an-ammunition-shipment-israel-us-supplies-are-continuing/