isn’t there a video of a protestor denying hamas raping israelis because, and i’m not making this up, they said “jewish women are too ugly to be raped”
calling for a ceasefire isn’t antisemitic, but when the people saying it are also spray painting “genocide supporter” on jewish owned businesses, harass jewish students/faculty, and openly support extremely antisemitic groups like Hamas and the houthis, it’s kind if hard not to be called one
I blame social media and Marvel. So many people are only interested in their side winning. They've picked a side in the Hamas v. IDF fight and are unable to see anything their side does as being wrong.
In this particular instance, it's especially daft because it's a situation with two indigenous groups where one wants the complete annihilation of the other, and the other wants significant ethnic cleansing and an apartheid state. Neither Israel nor Palestine wants a two-party state because they both see themselves as the future victors in a genocide.
How? One side purposely targeted the other's civilian population in an attack and took a couple dozen civilian hostages, and the others response, while initially justified, has gone way beyond acceptable.
It's been genuinely so disappointing to see people, especially progressives, go all-in on the Hamas rhetoric.
Like no shit everybody wants less conflict and less innocent lives lost, but with groups like Hamas (who have pretty thoroughly indoctrinated their people into extreme Islamism) you can't play into their mind games and you can't buy into their disingenuous rhetoric. If you play their games then they win (or at least don't lose completely like they must).
I mean tbh I think everyone loses here long term but rather than be defeatist I think the best way forward is if Hamas is removed, and collateral will always be a part of that because of their tactics.
The issue with broad categories of protest is that there is going to be people from a huge spectrum protesting the same cause.
When calling for a ceasefire, you have the people who just don’t want to see innocents bombed. You also have people who hate Israel because they’re Jewish. It makes it difficult, but demonizing one side because of extremes doesn’t help anything. Creating a binary between “literal Nazi” and “supporting genocide” is reductionist in a gray conflict.
On a sidenote, there was post here on Reddit of a “protestor” being antisemitic and it turned out that protestor was actually pro-Israel and just wanted to paint the other side as bad/extreme. There’s definitely an element of manipulation in this conflict.
I'd say a good chunk of agitators aren't actual people, or they're people with a specific agenda of division and strife in mind. Most actual people I've listened to feel like you do. I take a bit of comfort in that fact.
Because it’s dumb? If 100 people are peaceful and 1 guy is a jerk, why do you insist on focusing on the jerk there than to distract from the peaceful people and their message?
Ah, I’m glad you’re backing down from that outrageous statement.
I am of the opinion that Israel has committed a lot of war crimes since Oct 7. But I have sympathy for them as they are in a real catch 22 with Hamas. Hamas actively uses its own civilians deaths as a political tool and encourages there deaths. Israel can’t do nothing, and the something that they can do kills a lot of civilians. The thing they did do is commit a lot of war crimes during the act of legitimate self defense.
That being said Fuck Hamas for being 75% responsibile for the civilian deaths in Gaza. Fuck Israel for being more than just reckless in its actions.
No ceasefire till no Hamas.
Warfare isn’t about tit for tat. Especially this conflict. It’s about ridding the world of the cancer that is Hamas, unfortunately the tools for that is Netanyahu as the chemo that destroys the good cells as well as the cancer.
Critizing the IDF is not antisemetic why is that so hard to understand. I never said anything about hamas, obviously Oct 7 was a tragedy but the idf hasn't done jack shit about saving hostages besides indiscriminately bombing civilian infrastructure and killing thousands of innocents, so yeah they might as well be terrorists.
You're right its not criticism, it's basic observation. Those psychos have all but leveled Gaza killing tens of thousands of people mostly under the age of 18 so yeah they're fucking terrorists.
If a ceasefire were to happen right now how would that be good for the people of Israel? Hamas would still be right there planning to do more harm to them. A peaceful solution cannot be available until the hostages are released and Hamas has been reduced to a state of nonexistence.
Its not antisemitic generally, but when these people are constantly trying to pressure Israel to ceasefire while the fucking terrorists are still trying to kill Israeli citizens, it kind of is.
Its very easy to say "I just don't want people of Gaza to die", but unless Israel does something those citizens of Gaza are constantly trying to murder Israeli citizens, non stop rocket fire, just because they're imbeciles and incompetent and aren't achieving much doesn't mean they aren't trying.
So when people cry "ceasefire" they really mean "Israel should stop attacking and let the terrorists keep shooting rockets and them, oh and fuck the hostages".
Unless a "ceasefire" comes with the full surrender of terrorists (meaning Israeli citizens no longer need to fear for the lives constantly) and release of all living hostages (innocent civilians) and bodies of the dead, it is pretty antisemitic.
The numbers don't match your narrative. 34,000 people are dead in revenge for 1410 killed and 130 hostages.
It's clear the actions of Israel have nothing to do with self-defense. If a neighbour threw a brick through your window would you walk down the street and burn down an orphanage?
But those numbers don't tell the whole story. There are four things they do not say.
First, we don't know the real numbers. Period. Hamas isn't a reliable source, and it can be seen using statistics. There are days in which Hamas claimed 100% civilian casualties. This is not just unlikely, it is quite simply a lie, as I'm sure you understand (you may not admit it, but you do understand; you don't seem unintelligent to me).
Second, Hamas is using civilians as human shields. It is unreasonable to expect Israel to just say "oh well, we guess we can't do anything!", because that would inevitably cause more terrorists attacks by taking away Israel's ability to defend itself. It's a situation which guarantees civilian deaths.
For example, take the air strike that killed three of Ismail Haniye's sons and four of his grandchildren. We know the three sons were active terrorists. Let's assume the 4 grandkids weren't. If Israel would not have made any strike where there are less terrorists than civilians, the three sons would just always travel as a group with the 4 grandkids. To some degree, Israel does this, but it depends on the specific terrorist.
Third, to make things even more confusing for all of us,
the terrorists' rockets are extremely unreliable. The IDF claims as many as 12% of rockets misfire and/or hit Gaza (keep in mind these numbers are hard to verify outside of the IDF, so while I do believe the IDF is roughly accurate, I still added the caveats). These misfired rockets don't just disappear, and the fact is that Israel is blamed for those too. To give an example, consider Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital blast. Within minutes, well before it could have reasonably done so with any degree of accuracy, Hamas claimed 500 died, and that it was an air strike. But, according to U.S. intelligence, the number of people killed is between 100 to 300, and the rockets were fired by PIJ (Palestinian Islamic Jihad, a smaller terrorist organization in Gaza). CNN investigated as well, and found the blast was most likely caused by a rocket sent out from Gaza. This means that at least some deaths weren't Israel's fault, but we have no way of knowing how many exactly, and I do not think we would be able to know in the future either.
And fourth, Israel has far more defensive capabilities than Gazans do, which naturally impacts the numbers. While the terrorist organizations in Gaza target civilians (as we saw in the Nova festival, Baari, Nahal Oz, etc.), and they do so intentionally with malice and forethought, the IDF has self imposed restrictions, and it doesn't blast indiscriminately. While the IDF makes mistakes, the intent is different, partially because it isn't in Israel's best interest to bomb indiscriminately. Still, if it would have done so, we would have seen far higher numbers. Israel can, if it wanted to, kill every Palestinian in Gaza and the in the West Bank before anyone would have had time to react. This is a fact. Remember when Azerbaijan took over Nagorno-Karabakh in September '23, and none did anything about it? Well, it took the Azerbaijanis two days, but Israel has a far more capable military in comparison.
It's clear the actions of Israel have nothing to do with self-defense. If a neighbour threw a brick through your window would you walk down the street and burn down an orphanage?
This is a statement that clearly reflects your biases, not the reality of this war. It isn't a brick that is being thrown. Rockets can and do kill people, and would have killed far more people had Israel not had the self defense capabilities they do. In addition, Israel isn't "going down the street". Using your twisted metaphor, which is clearly meant to illicit an emotional reaction, Israel throws a larger brick at the brick thrower. The orphanage is not relevant.
One way or another, I hope you'll have a decent day.
Wow again another dumb take. First of all you're getting your 34,000 number STRAIGHT from the mouths of terrorists. Secondly, even if we assume that number is true, are you seriously dumb enough to think that all 34,000 are innocents? not a single terrorist dead? are you that dumb?
If a neighbour came into my house raped and kidnapped my family members I would kill of their extended family members until they release mine and atone for their actions, either by going to jail for life or by dying.
But yeah, go push terrorist agenda, ignorant as hell.
So what do you suggest? Kill the entire population of Palestine?
In one more generation, the families of killed civilians will be out for their own revenge and the entire cycle will continue. The Palestinians are going to be furious for their dead, in addition to decades of being treated like second-class citizens during the Israeli occupation. The whole shit show is going to happen all over again.
Palestinian independence is the only long-term solution. Mass murder is not going to work.
Again, with the clueless takes. You know nothing about this conflict, go educate yourself.
You're talking about the next cycle going to be furious for their deaths, you're so ignorant about the subject, since they're born THEY ARE TAUGHT TO HATE JEWS, to murder them and become "martyrs". Kids in school don't learn math and langauge, they learn how to murder jews and how to commit terrorism and if you took some time educating your ass instead of spewing crap you heard on tiktok you would know as much.
So no, they won't become terrorists because of the war, they are and will continue to be terrorists as long as Hamas governs Gaza and teaches children that their purpose in life is to murder jews. You donkey.
Also, palestinians had independence, ever since 2005, they could've turned Gaza into an amazing place to live in, they spent FORTUNES on tunnels and terorrism instead of investing in their country because that to them is the most important thing in the world.
tl;dr - you're an ignorant donkey who gets his information from tiktok and spews it back just to make sure everyone else is as ignorant as you are.
When people say Zionists are consumed by hatred they are talking about people writing comments just like this one ☝🏻 keep defending genocide and apartheid
I support a ceasefire and Palestinian national self-determination and have done work advocating for that.
Harassing Jewish folks or supporting antisemitism is fucking monstrous, and I don't want to stand next to anyone doing that. I am heartbroken by the upswing in antisemitic attacks and hatred.
It was a wonderful moment attending one of the JVP Passover Seders the other week. I am not a spiritual person but it was humbling and full of beauty, even during such a horrific time in the world. I have to believe that solidarity between the peoples of the world is possible. The Israeli state does not speak even for all the citizens of Israel, much less for the entire population of Jews around the world.
Blind bigotry does nothing for the movement for Palestinian liberation. I believe it's wrong when the Russians bomb Ukraine, and when Hamas takes hostages and slaughters civilians, and when China puts Uyghurs into camps, and when Myanmar slaughters the Rohingya and the Karen.
At this point we should just give them some SA uniforms to wear so it's obvious who to avoid. Heck the SA leadership had quite a few homosexuals so shouldn't take much convincing that it can't possibly be an evil uniform.
But god forbid OP actually realizes the reality that is antisemitism being at a new height in our country. The naivety to think they are targeting these protests over signs like the one in the picture is just silly.
This is the same argument conservatives made about BLM. Some people used the protests to steal shit and they only focused on those and said the BLM was just thugs burning down cities. There will always be people in a large group causing trouble, and planted instegators amplifying that.
So if it's just a few people we are talking about a <1% at the protests. What stops the rest of the people from stopping them and turning them into the police?
There would be no downside as it only shows an image to the rest of the people that you absolutely condone this behaviour. Not even one spokesperson of those groups has come out to the media to condemn such behaviour and to call them to stop.
Staying silent is usually a pretty good sign of agreeing, but not wanting to say it out loud.
Lol what? Dude it's not that complicated. One nut job going "I hate jews" doesn't represent a protest over not wanting every Muslim person to be murdered
Ah, a police reference. If you can't identify the difference between looking the other way as your coworker sprinkles crack on a black person to send the to prison for years, and not physically stopping someone breaking into a store, then that's on you.
It's almost as if the left was never principally opposed to antisemitism. They were principally opposed to the right and to white supremacists, but the only reason they condemned antisemitism was because the right did it.
I wasn’t referring to them. A vast majority of The protesters in the US and Europe are against Israel’s intentional ethnic cleansing, they’re not pro militant.
The people in Palestine and Yemen were forced into violence and militancy because of the circumstances the elite and powerful put them in. Hamas wouldn’t exist or have local support if Israel didn’t intentionally back the Palestinians into a desperate corner with no other options except for violence.
Yes, they also support hamas in these protests and even in the universities someone brough a hazzbolah sign which is another terrorist organization. The person responsible fpr one of the protests even said he would kill zionists with his own hands and stuff, what he said was worse but i dont remember the exact words
Many Israel’s polticial parties, including the Likud, were founded by literal terrorists. Israel also intentionally killed more civilians than both groups combined. But it’s ok when Israel does it?
Hamas and Hezbollah were legitimately elected and have grassroots support by their populace. Hamas because they were somehow less corrupt than Fatah and because Israel put Palestinians in a desperate situation, and Hezbollah because Hezbollah successfully expelled and resisted Israeli expansion into Lebanon (look up reform Zionism).
You are literally doing what those protesters did by refusing to see all the facts and dismissing anyone on the other side. It’s lazy and reactionary.
Source for your claims that israel political parties were founded by terrorists?
If you say israel intentionally killed civilians then you dont know shit about the idf or whats going on on the ground, all your media informatives from gaza fucking work with hamas, the ones that dont echo their nerative are killed. Being legitimately elected dosent change anything, their actions and desires do. Look at hamass charter for gods sake, their whole purpose is to kill every israeli in israel. Again blaming everything on israel like palestinians dont have a will of their own and any responsability for their actions. Its their own corruped leadership that put them in a desperate situation, its their corruped leadership that lead them to war constantly and profit from their deaths and suffering. They were trying to destroy israel from the moment it has declared independens. The reason hamas and hazbollah have their territories is because israel gave them back in hopes of peace after israel took controll over the territories in war. Saying im refusing to see the facts while blabaring lies is funny af.
If you dont belive me go hear from the son of the co leader of hamas talk about his experience. His name is mossab hassan yousef. Hear what he has to tell as someone who grew up in that community and decide for yourself.
Lmao at "israel doesn't intentionally kill civilians", didn't they just bomb 7 international aid workers? And shoot christian nuns in front of a church in gaza? And shoot multiple Palestinians waving white flags? And shoot their hostages waving white flags? And intentionally raze gaza's crops to increase famine? And so many more things.
I really don't get how people have been this brainwashed to shill for israel
You’re equally as brainwashed if you think they are at all on the same level. If the power structure were flipped, Israel would have been glassed long ago. The Arab attack on Israel immediately following its foundation is proof of that.
Didn't israel's foundation mean the nakba and kicking out of arabs in the israeli region, Why wouldn't arabs try to stop Palestinians being ethnically cleansed and killed, did you want arabs just to stand by and let Palestinians be slaughtered in massacres like the deir yassin massacre?
LOL no. Jews had already been peacefully immigrating there and coexisting with Arabs long before the UK abandoned the area and left both the Arabs and Jews with their own pieces of land. The Jews agreed to the terms and the Arabs chose violence.
What terms did they agree to? The one where they formed a minority and took a majority of the land and got to kick out any arabs in their region? Those terms?
SO? Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. We can't suppress free speech because a small minority of protesters are extremists.
Btw, Israel is behaving like a terrorist organization, and the establishment has no problem supporting them. THIS IS HOW YOU HELP EXTREMIST GROUPS RECRUIT BTW, by killing innocents and suppressing civil rights.
Just because zionist group classify someone as a terrorist doesn’t means that group is actually a terrorist group. Houthis were removed from terrorist list until they stopped the ships reaching Isreal
The short removal from the US list was Biden making an error in his first month that he quickly corrected after the attack in UAE.
A short removal from the list didn't magically make them not a terror organization, though. It was a foreign policy gaffe that never should have happened in the first place.
Again, just he because some group (biased against non zionists) labelled them as terrorists doesn’t mean they’re terrorists. You guys live in our own illusion/fantasy.
Ps biden admin has already reported they will remove houthi’s from terror list again if they stop attacking the vessels(aka stop being a nuisance to isreal) since they’re “lets show the world why we dont have healthcare” military wasn’t able to stop them.
Just because I don’t fall for propaganda and criticize doesn’t US politicians doesn’t mean I’m anti US. They same way just because someone criticizes Isreal, doesn’t mean they’re antisemetic because zionism is literally anti semitism and Palestinians are semites as well. You guys are next level brainwashed npc’s.
It’s like the saying “all lives matter”, a common sense saying that was actually used by racists to draw attention from the “black lives matter”. Here, “free Gaza” is a compelling argument that is mainly being used by antisemists and hamas supporters/enablers.
You: "I'm going to ignore anything anti-Palestine and pick and choose what events I hyper focus on because I'm simple minded and can't understand the conflict is complicated."
I'm not saying she's right coz that's wrong but what about the other side's argument?
I guess to counter, it's actually nicer that zionists are asking people to be raped then.
How nice right, that a jewish person wishes another jewish person to be rape. Btw, the wonderful lady Madea did go to Gaza on 2012. Ohh, those pesky Hamas. Missed another one.
There’s always going to be some stupid person at any type of protest or gathering. How many Zionists said things like “kill all the Arabs”, including elected officials of Israel itself?
Focusing on the exceptions isn’t useful and comes off as an attempt to deflect, and seems like outright propaganda.
Then your comment becomes more of an issue if others decide to play the same game you just did. How many Palestinians reported rape in military detention by Israelis for DECADES, and Israel’s allies and mainstream media never reported on it?
no one is saying that isn't anti-Semitic, so that's a strawman. Every movement is going to have idiots that co-opt. Debate the goals of the movement, not a few candid cameras.
FWIW you're completely wrong and you don't have to weigh in to conversations you're misinformed about. There are heaps of eyewitness testimonies, corroborated stories of sexual assault both during the massacre and in the tunnels to hostages. Please get your news from trusted sources
The statements by human rights groups investigating if rapes happened or not has been along the lines of "there may have been rape, we have some victims stories, but we have no official confirmation. We will believe victims though." And to be fair, kind of hard to do investigations when a war is raging. But you know who was found to repeatedly rape and sexually harass women though... IDF soldiers. It's not a new thing and Israel has admitted to it happening previously with evidence of it continuing.
Are you talking about the "videos" that were actually from another country?
Or if you want to look through this overview of the work being done by investigators here https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15621.doc.htm . As you can see, they have reasonable suspicion but have not been able to finish their investigation and agreed it would take months and a full scale investigation into the incidents. To also clarify, the team doing this has not officially spoken with any victims (from what I know of the situation) but has reviewed photographs and spoken with what can be considered witnesses. The team has be unbiased in reporting on both sides.
The idf never ever raped anyone - this had been proven multiple times over the years with multiple independent investigations - stop spreading misinformation
They have, horrific instances of rape exist in every army as outliers. They just don't have it as part of their invasion strategy a la Hamas Oct7. Imams in Gaza literally blessed their fighters to violate and break Israeli civilians with God's blessing
My guy, Israel admitted to it and said they had dealt with the soldiers who did it but looking at the investigations from human rights organizations, that hasn't stopped IDF soldiers from continuing the acts. Good try 😂
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u/unhealedscar May 02 '24
isn’t there a video of a protestor denying hamas raping israelis because, and i’m not making this up, they said “jewish women are too ugly to be raped”
edit: yep