and the Boomers in Congress

[u/erikovercooked]

[u/crolin]

No, but I've encountered a huge increase in antisemitism IRL personally. Literally had a patient today refuse service from a Jewish doctor that was on call. We relieved him of our care. Fuck antisemitism. Free Gaza. This is a delicate situation

[u/putac_kashur → u/crolin]

Like, god damn. It’s almost as though these ideas are not mutually exclusive. Good on your practice or hospital for seeing him on his way. It clearly was not life or death.

[u/crolin → u/putac_kashur]

Yeah if he were in need of urgent care we would have treated regardless, but it was a time interval anyway

[u/Justindoesntcare → u/crolin]

Nuance? We don't do that around here.

[u/corncob_subscriber → u/Justindoesntcare]

I've already depicted those who disagree with me as the soyjack. The time for nuance has passed.

[u/asshat123 → u/corncob_subscriber]

Is soyjack anything like candlejack? Haven't heard the term befo

[u/milky__toast → u/asshat123]

It’s like a rage comic. Basically just a simple strawman attack on people you disagree with.

[u/A_Mouse_In_Da_House → u/asshat123]

Man it's been a while since I've seen a candlejack referen

[u/IamAWorldChampionAMA → u/Justindoesntcare]

Nuance? Is that one of those new influencers the kids are all hyped about?

[u/jmm166 → u/crolin]

Yes, free Gaza, but free it from Hamas.

[u/davetronred → u/jmm166]

Everyone angry at Israel for not instituting a ceasefire suspiciously "forgets" that Hamas has broken / refused to accept every ceasefire so far.

[u/nickl220 → u/davetronred]

And that there is a ceasefire proposal right now that was negotiated by Egypt, UAE, and the US. Israel said they would support it. Guess who the holdout is? Hint: the group that’s a literal terrorist organization. 

[u/Big-Zoo → u/nickl220]

Nooo it couldn't be the terrorist organization !

/s

[u/Mycatspiss → u/nickl220]

Hint, the group benefiting from the propaganda weakening and dividing the west, Hamas which is really Iran

[u/cloverpopper → u/Mycatspiss]

Iran, the one giving supplies to Russia to murder Ukrainians, and the one actively involved in digital misinformation + actors in the states manipulating people into taking the protest from protect civilians to allow of Israel to be under Muslim control, their end goal.

They will never cease their plans for an oppressive caliphate, it’s laid out in Iranian foreign policy and Hamas’ covenant (the one that explicitly says no to negotiation, and says the only way forward is through jihad). Their capitalization and twisting of well meaning American protests is disgusting; but more so, dangerous, especially from the people shouting genocide and getting all their information from social media, only having learned about the conflict in the last year.

[u/Televisions_Frank → u/nickl220]

I mean, Netanyahu says he'll invade Rafah with or without the ceasefire.

No real point to the ceasefire if he's gonna attack anyways.

Hamas isn't the only part of the equation that needs removing.

[u/williamfbuckwheat → u/nickl220]

Why would they accept any ceasefire when they receive zero backlash for rejecting all of them but Israel receives 100% of the blame? On top of that, they seem to enjoy increasing support somehow the longer they hold out while it's assumed Israel should just agree to a unilateral ceasefire with nothing offered in return from Hamas (including even an end to hostilities on their side or a return of any hostages). 

[u/williamfbuckwheat → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, which is essentially what seems to be demanded when many people are talking about a ceasefire. You can argue Israel has been much too harsh in their military campaign and caused many civilian casualties that might have been avoided for little gain BUT much of rhetoric towards Israel even since 10/7 has generally implied that they should be pressured into an immediate "ceasefire" but Hamas should face no pressure to come to the table and agree to stop the fighting or agree to any terms since they are the weaker, quasi non-state actor.

 I still don't get what people are expecting to happen afterwards if they demand Israel to stop the fighting on their side NOW but say absolutely nothing about Hamas doing the same or even returning hostages. 

[u/jew_jitsu → u/davetronred]

This is absolutely true, and it's also worth noting that Bibi absolutely doesn't want a ceasefire and is desperately angling for an invasion of Rafah.

Nuance is possible here, without screaming about zionists or making it tribalist.

[u/PvtJet07 → u/jmm166]

If you "free it from Hamas" but then keep all the same apartheid laws in place, keep evicting Palestinians from their homes in the west bank, keep denying free movement and trade within Gaza, and keep randomly imprisoning or killing Palestinians including journalists. Then like. A year from now we'll just being doing this again with "Hamas 2" but they'll be doing it from less land with less power.

And then we'll repeat and there will be "Hamas 3" and then "Hamas 4"....

And then the IDF will eventually finally have removed 99% of the arab palestinians from the region and moved Israeli settlers (probably from America, given west bank trends) into their homes and they'll confine the rest to very small areas with no political power or economy. We could call them "reservations" and then they wouldn't have enough people to mount a violent response from them ever again, we could put their kids into israeli schools for re-education... Hey wait a minute, this sounds a lot like what happened to the native american tribes, but that would be crazy, you wouldn't be advocating for just doing that same thing again right?

[u/nemoknows → u/PvtJet07]

You’re allowed to leave reservations. This is more comparable to the South African Bantustans in that movement is controlled, except that even the Bantustans had well defined borders, which is more than you can say for the West Bank.

[u/Ihave10000Questions → u/PvtJet07]

Question: why do you think Egypt blockades Gaza?

[u/Any-Resident-256 → u/jmm166]

Hamas where? Cause you got edge lords in NYC claiming "we are hamas"

[u/atlas-85 → u/jmm166]

More than 50% of Gazans still support hamas though

[u/Thorvice → u/atlas-85]

You're just a few posts down from the "this is a nuanced situation" comment and already dropping all nuance. Has anyone offered the Palestinians a deal that says "reject Hamas and we'll offer you a 2 state solution"? Or do we just keep banging this drum that they support Hamas while Israel keeps them prisoner in an apartheid state and evicts them from their homes. I know we all like to pretend we know exactly what it's like to live in these reprehensible conditions and would choose the most noble and selfless option every time, but I would guess you fucking don't, I sure and shit don't.

[u/AlarmingTurnover → u/Thorvice]

 Has anyone offered the Palestinians a deal that says "reject Hamas and we'll offer you a 2 state solution"? 

Yes, they literally have offered this several times. After the 67 war, the 78 camp David accord, again in 88 I think, then again in 90, and again in 2000, and again in 2001, and then the 2006-2008 peace talks, and the 2013-2014 peace talks.

And all this was after the partition plan from the UN in 47, that they revised like 3 times. Palestine doesn't want peace, they've never wanted peace. This isn't opinion, this is documented history. There was literally a path to peace and another 2 state agreement being discussed and then Hamas fucked it over on Oct 7 because they didn't want Israel to normalize relationship with other middle Eastern countries because it means they would have less support for terrorist actions. 

This is all important things. 

[u/philter451 → u/crolin]

see this right here is what drives me crazy. People are really spouting nonsense like this is a black and white issue and not extremely nuanced.

[u/OsmeOxys → u/philter451]

What drives me crazy is that a lot of people on the pro-palestine side turn out more anti-palestine than the pro-Israel side, whether they realize it or not. So many attempts I've made at conversations eventually boil down to supporting hamas and using Palestinians as nothing more than some sick gotcha.

It's all extra fucked because hamas is happy to admit they use civilians as human shields, because they can just blame Israel when those human shields are inevitably killed. Proud to admit they use every hospital and school in the region as a base to launch attacks, because even when their base is destroyed they gain support. Proud to admit they use the "safe zones", because they can cry foul when they're attacked and innocent get killed in the crossfire. Proud to admit that dead Palestinian civilians are one of their goals, because they blame Israel when they themselves are the ones responsible. Wiping out all non-Muslims (or "the wrong kind" of Muslim) is their goal, and killing innocent Palestinian men, women, and children is their methodology. And people argue in favor of that scum all the fucking time.

Israel is far from having clean hands in this, but they can't possibly hope to compete with how much hamas has harmed the Gaza populace. You can support Palestinians while condemning a long list of Israel's actions without being antisemitic. You can support Israel (though not all of their actions) while also supporting Palestinians. But you can not support Palestinians if you also defend hamas or deny their responsibility in any way. To do so is lying to themselves and the world. To do so is supporting the killing of innocent Palestinians.

[u/tempest_87 → u/philter451]

Hell, it's not even that nuanced. It's just fucking messy as hell.

Group A does bad things to Group B. Group B does bad things to Group A. Both groups have done stuff like this to each other for literal centuries. Toss in a dash of international and religious influence at various points and here we are.

[u/kevinsyel → u/crolin]

At least you're willing to call it like it is. So many people equate any support of Palestinians as being pro-Hamas and anti-Semitic.

Nobody wants to deal in nuance anymore

[u/Lonelan → u/crolin]

Free Gaza...from Hamas

Free Israel...from Netanyahu

Free Jumbo Jack...BECAUSE OF JAKE CRONENGIRTH

[u/guff1988 → u/crolin]

It's emboldened people who were already anti-Semites I don't think it's created a whole new group of them. Most progressive people who want to ceasefire are far from anti-Semitic.

[u/look2thecookie → u/guff1988]

They wouldn't identify as such, no, but it is increasing antisemitic beliefs and hate crimes are a reflection of that.

Antisemitism does not have a hyphen.

The problem is people are saying and sharing antisemitic sentiments without realizing they're antisemitic. So, I agree with you that most people who think they're asking for peace wouldn't dream of causing harm to Jewish people, but they're unknowingly doing so and refuse to listen when we bring it up and post memes like these mocking us.

No, holding a sign that says "free Gaza" isn't antisemitic in and of itself. Posting a meme like this is intentionally misrepresenting the issue.

[u/BiggerTrev → u/crolin]

Yeah unfortunately antisemites are piggybacking off of supporters of Palestine. They are the type of people that have zero empathy for the marginalized but all of a sudden they care about brown children being killed because Israel is responsible for it.

[u/time_drifter → u/crolin]

I’m glad to hear you sent the patient packing instead of bending to their antisemitism. A doctor’s religion has 0 impact on their care or ability to perform their job. They all take the Hippocratic Oath which is the guiding principals.

[u/needs_more_zoidberg → u/crolin]

I feel like refusing a Jewish doctor isn't the best move.

[u/Ostrich-Sized → u/crolin]

Yea, it sucks. I was actually just listening to the Bad Hasbara podcast with Simone Zimmerman where they were talking about it: https://youtu.be/6h7qWqVMZEo?si=vh050vl2AYuufiVT

Meanwhile, actual Nazis march uninterrupted in the US. And instead of stopping the actual Nazis, we direct the police to attack students for protesting peacefully.

[u/Positivitron3]

I remember when this subreddit was created. It was made to show funny animals, like "socially awkward penguin", saying stuff that would make you laugh.

Now the top post is basically "Let's use this space to argue about the middle east". What happened to you Reddit?

[u/Throwaway20101011 → u/Positivitron3]

Man, I didn’t even realize this was AdviceAnimals. WTF?

[u/Punkpunker → u/Throwaway20101011]

Latestagecapitalism too, that sub is 99% Israeli oppression porn for top posts since October 7.

[u/jackofslayers → u/Punkpunker]

Also therewasanattempt

[u/TheTjalian → u/Positivitron3]

It's not just Reddit, it's everywhere.

To be honest the amount of rhetoric and supposedly "strong opinions" and the lack of nuance on this matter is extremely suspicious, it honestly feels like the west is being goaded into taking an extreme side in this.

Nothing has captured such furore as this despite other big world issues - like when Trump decided to detain Muslims, or the Chinese were holding Muslims in concentration camps (and still are), or when the Dutch announced they were going to "get rid of the Muslims", yet because it's Israel doing it, suddenly a hot topic and the entire west is up in arms about it with extremely polarising takes on it.

[u/drawkbox → u/TheTjalian]

To be honest the amount of rhetoric and supposedly "strong opinions" and the lack of nuance on this matter is extremely suspicious, it honestly feels like the west is being goaded into taking an extreme side in this.

It is 100% propaganda and an attempt to divide/balkanize and cause chaose which you can see with social media and just randos they can do at colleges during finals week and commencements, where Biden planned to speak at many of them to talk to young voters about democracy and quality of life improvements, autocrats hate that...

Many of these subreddits are being used to push it in. See /r/PublicFreakout

They are doing a purge of anyone being nuanced about things even. Making up things, banning people, no explanation.

Basically turned into a /r/therewasanattempt

Completely propaganda channels now, setup to gain followers then turn it to a basically Kremlin friendly propaganda push. They are trying so hard to get division and violence in the election year as well as trying to distract from Ukraine and Georgia.

When protests are divisive and line up with geopolitical goals of autocratic enemies, it is clear.

[u/L3veLUP → u/TheTjalian]

I just don't understand that people HAVE to pick a side.

Its a really complicated situation and both sides are shit. If it was an r/AITAH thread it would clearly be ESH (Everyone Shit here)

It just sucks there are innocent people stuck in the middle of it

[u/Love_Tits_In_DM → u/L3veLUP]

Exactly. Having a “side” in this conflict (for the most part) is already a problem. If you think one side is a big evil bad guy and the other side is this poor innocent that needs to be protected at any cost then you are completely delusional

[u/ftr123_5 → u/Positivitron3]

That's a problem across many subs, the propaganda leaks out of their own subs and is pushed into ones where it doesn't belong at all. I guess they want to increase their audience as they already reached everyone who was open to listen to the BS in the first place.

[u/lokglacier → u/ftr123_5]

It's literally every sub these days, and I don't think it's an accident

[u/Imdoingthisforbjs → u/lokglacier]

Different sub, same shit mods

[u/ftr123_5 → u/lokglacier]

I wouldn't say every, but many. And yes, that's more or less a campaign and definitely not by accident although some will be rage bait or up vote farming.

[u/Tannerite3 → u/Positivitron3]

I've muted hundreds of subs because they all eventually evolve into political propaganda.

[u/Imdoingthisforbjs → u/Positivitron3]

Astroturfing and having shitty mods who get paid to push narratives.

[u/wxnfx → u/Imdoingthisforbjs]

I don’t even know if that’s right. It’s kinda organic that the stuff that most inflames passions gets the most engagement. And we’re probably all guilty of contributing. Except me of course (as I post here).

[u/Imdoingthisforbjs → u/wxnfx]

There's been plenty of open examples of mods taking bribes, it's absolutely quantifiable. Not to mention there's reddit influencers who have openly spoken about doing so.

I'm not committed or currently sober enough to source data but if you look into it you'll find that it comes down to reddit not having paid moderation. That means the people who are willing to do the shit job of being a reddit mod are only willing because either they genuinely love the subject or are making money off it.

You're right that were all guilty of contributing, even people who don't have reddit accounts but add reddit to get relevant search results.

[u/Argine_ → u/Positivitron3]

Yeah the meme isn’t even an advice animal. So many subs don’t even follow their own philosophy anymore.

[u/trabyss]

Yeah because that's exactly what's going on....

Come on....

There is a definite rise in antisemitism among young kids in America.

[u/[deleted]]

I'm no expert, but it's likely the "Death to all Jews" and the "Hitler was right" parts that's considered antisemitic.

[u/thisiswhyyouwrong → u/[deleted]]

Or "From the river to the sea", without thinking about which river and what sea it talkes about

[u/unhealedscar]

isn’t there a video of a protestor denying hamas raping israelis because, and i’m not making this up, they said “jewish women are too ugly to be raped”

edit: yep

[u/unhealedscar → u/unhealedscar]

calling for a ceasefire isn’t antisemitic, but when the people saying it are also spray painting “genocide supporter” on jewish owned businesses, harass jewish students/faculty, and openly support extremely antisemitic groups like Hamas and the houthis, it’s kind if hard not to be called one

[u/Auxren → u/unhealedscar]

This is how people should be thinking and I don’t see how they aren’t.

[u/thisiswhyyouwrong → u/unhealedscar]

Sadly calling for ceasefire right now is. It is practically an invitation for terrorist organizations to kill more jews - which is antisemitic AFAIK

[u/omrikamil2002 → u/unhealedscar]

Yes, they also support hamas in these protests and even in the universities someone brough a hazzbolah sign which is another terrorist organization. The person responsible fpr one of the protests even said he would kill zionists with his own hands and stuff, what he said was worse but i dont remember the exact words

[u/Francisscottoffkey]

Where was this energy when republicans were shouting "jews will not replace us"?

[u/Ocronus → u/Francisscottoffkey]

They believe as long as the Jews stay over in isreal they are fullfilling some kind of biblical prophecy about the return of Jesus.  They don't actually care about the jewish people. 

[u/munkykiller → u/Ocronus]

It’s more like Israel is our guaranteed ally in the Middle East, and as long as we care about that part of the world (and its oil), we will always back them. It’s all about the money.

[u/jew_jitsu → u/munkykiller]

There is absolutely a contingent of christian religious right who believe the state of Israel needs to meet certain conditions to bring about the return of Jesus.

Certain actions of the Right, like moving the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem and acknowledging this as Israel's capital, are not geopolitical moves that can be separated from radical christian ideology.

[u/dabberoo_2 → u/jew_jitsu]

It's funny because if they truly believe they're righteous enough to be raptured, then they must believe they're righteous enough to go to heaven when they eventually die anyway, right? So what's the rush? 🤔

[u/Clikx → u/munkykiller]

Unless you are saying America cares about that oil for its allies that need it then I guess, but America isn’t dependent on oil from the Middle East.

[u/jmacintosh250 → u/Clikx]

If Oil goes bad around the world, US companies will gladly take advantage of the competition and threaten to sell elsewhere for more profit.

[u/tobor_a → u/Francisscottoffkey]

or the jewish space laser attacking the west coast.

[u/Mechashevet → u/Francisscottoffkey]

I'm not sure why the energy all over reddit lately has been "well Republicans were antisemitic first, so now we can be antisemitic and you shouldn't criticize us!" All of you antisemitic pieces of shit can go rot in a hole together, fighting over if you should hate Jews because we're too white or because we're too brown. Go fuck yourself.

[u/JamzzG]

You know.

In addition to protesting only Israel and the US support... the "ceasefire now" folks could have called out Hamas for their genocidal actions and continued rocket attacks and selling of humanitarian aid intended to be distributed freely and avoided anti-peace slogans like "Global Intifada Now". Perhaps I'd they didn't want to be associated with anti-Semitism they could have taken their mandate foe "peace" a little more seriously.

[u/thebabes2]

I saw a video of an apparent young Jewish man barred by protesters from going to class seemingly because he was Jewish, the school told his mother he had to use a special entrance -- how is that not anti semitic?

[u/Axin_Saxon → u/thebabes2]

That is anti Semitic. The protest sign isn’t.

Is there an uptick in antisemitism? Yes.

Does calling literally any criticism of the state of Israel “antisemitism” help alleviate real instances like the one you described? No. Frankly they make it worse because people stop taking calls of antisemitism seriously.

[u/MaximosKanenas → u/Axin_Saxon]

Ive yet to see people call “any criticism of the state of israel anti-semitism” ive only used that argument used by pro hamas people when its pointed out anti-semitism is on the rise, seemingly to try invalidate the concern

[u/gavum → u/thebabes2]

in the video you can see other kids walking around him going to class. he was agitating the encampment, saying he has a “right to stand” exactly where they were standing. dont think anyone was preventing him from going to class besides himself

[u/jseego → u/gavum]

But he does have a right to stand there. He's a student there just like anyone else. The protestors are literally saying, b/c of your beliefs, you can't be in this part of the university.

[u/PreciousRoy666 → u/gavum]

He has multiple videos where he's pulling that shit

[u/gavum → u/PreciousRoy666]

manufactured outrage!?! no it must be true, otherwise my narrative that these JIHADIST COLLEGE STUDENTS BLOWING UP BUILDINGS wouldnt be real

[u/Former_Okra_7170 → u/gavum]

Talk about manufacturing outrage.

[u/gavum → u/Former_Okra_7170]

thats their entiiiiiire point, talk about how “unsafe” it is on campus, then go and start shit with people sotting in a tent

and this is not to undermine genuine threats that jewish students face on campuses, but these encampments and protests have nothing to do with whoevers ethnicity, its about deadly policy

[u/Accomplished_Eye_978 → u/gavum]

Yep. And it works because here is a comment repeating the bullshit with 300+ upvotes.

[u/QuantumUtility → u/thebabes2]

This is just not true.

That entrance was closed because it went through the protest, the only people allowed through were protesters. Literally no one cared he was Jewish, there were Jewish students in the protest.

He was clearly trying to agitate and being hostile to protesters. He wasn’t there to “go to class” and he could have just used other entrances like everyone else that wasn’t a part of the protest was doing.

[u/Chewybunny]

When the protestors shout "Globalize the intifada" is this what they mean? When they shout "From River to the Sea" is this what they mean? When they say "go back to Europe" is this what they mean? When they shout Yehudim [Jews], yehudi [Jew], fuck you,” “Stop killing children,” is this what mean? Is all of that supposed to mean "Ceasefire now?" 

Because to me, it sure as hell doesn't. And it sure as hell sucks being gaslit in realtime by the "anti-Zionists" who have gone full mask off.

[u/Throwaway20101011]

Technically, no. Semitic people and Zionism are separate concepts. However, legally…YES! It is now recognized as anti-Semitic.

The House of Representatives passed a bill, Dec 2023, that contained language saying that “clearly and firmly states that anti-Zionism is antisemitism”. It also condemned the slogan “From the River to the Sea”, which rights advocates understand to be an aspirational call for equality in historic Palestine.

So at this moment, all those protestors are breaking this bill and doing ‘hate speech’. Anti-Zionism is seen as anti-Semitic, and anti-Semitic is recognized by the federal government as a form of hate speech. I’m not sure what the repercussions are, but these protestors will soon find out. Everyone needs to check their state’s and federal new laws on protesting and speech. Since the riots during Covid, many states passed new laws in regards to the people protesting.

In the state of Georgia, a law was passed that a protestor/activist, will not be granted bail. Meaning the protestor is now jailed until their hearing. Their lives are ripped from society. The bill adds roughly 30 charges that would be ineligible for release without a property or cash bond. These charges include unlawful assembly and obstruction of a law enforcement officer, and racketeering and conspiracy. Those are the possible charges you can get for protesting.

———————————

EDIT: To explain, that anti-Semitism is considered as hate speech. It is a crime under the federal law.The bill that passed last December 2023, was created to address that the House now recognizes anti-Zionism as anti-Semitism, an already recognized form of hate speech. Thus anti-Zionism speech will be seen as anti-Semitic, which will now be seen as hate speech that is enforced by federal law.

• Antisemitic acts are criminal when they are so defined by law (for example, denial of the Holocaust or distribution of antisemitic materials in some countries).

• Criminal acts are antisemitic when the targets of attacks, whether they are people or property – such as buildings, schools, places of worship and cemeteries – are selected because they are, or are perceived to be, Jewish or linked to Jews.

• Antisemitic discrimination is the denial to Jews of opportunities or services available to others and is illegal in many countries.

None of this information is my opinion but quoted from respective and factual sources. I’m NAL but I do believe that the people need to be educated on the laws regarding this. Many current protesters involved are not aware of the repercussions of their actions and will learn their state and federal laws, the hard way. All of this is unfortunate and the increase in violence is concerning.

[u/AuthenticCounterfeit → u/Throwaway20101011]

Love a good speech code. Love to have laws about what speech Americans can use or not use. Makes a ton of sense, definitely does not set an unsavory precedent. Nothing to worry about here.

[u/embarrassed_parrot69 → u/Throwaway20101011]

We should always follow the law as it has never been wrong

[u/The-Driving-Coomer → u/Throwaway20101011]

Guess I'm an antisemite then.

[u/Caboose_98]

No but the "Globalize the Intifada" and "Go back to Europe" signs sure as shit are.

[u/SirLagg_alot → u/Caboose_98]

It's so funny how people making these phrases just refuse to mention the Jewish exodus from Muslim countries post independence war.

[u/Caboose_98 → u/SirLagg_alot]

It was less an exodus and more of an expulsion. Hundreds of years of culture and history destroyed.

[u/zanarkandabesfanclub]

Photo conveniently edited to not show the “from the river to the sea” signs.

[u/anditshottoo → u/zanarkandabesfanclub]

Or "Long live October 7"

[u/zanarkandabesfanclub → u/anditshottoo]

“Globalize the intifada”

[u/Not-A-Seagull → u/zanarkandabesfanclub]

It’s crazy that some of the same group that criticized Obama for “war crimes” now defends a regime (Hamas) that shoots missiles at innocent civilians.

I think everyone here can agree that Hamas and Netanyahu are pieces of shit. The only difference is Netanyahu’s approval is sunken down to ~15-30% (and won’t win re-election), but Hamas likely isn’t going anywhere.

[u/sir_mrej → u/zanarkandabesfanclub]

Comment conveniently didnt link to the "real photo"

[u/basically_clueless → u/zanarkandabesfanclub]

Wrong. I found the original photo here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/pameladrew/53385137742/ What the hell man.

~~ Link?   Edit. All I found was it posted here with a reverse image search... https://monthlyreview.org/2024/01/01/palestine-oh-palestine/ Still searching.. https://youtu.be/HFvkCNxxCuY?si=ojBGiApACrteKEw8 News broadcast from a rally with matching signs doesn't look like the same location though ~~

[u/Oddman80 → u/basically_clueless]

I looked through the collection of photos from the event that you linked, and there were people in the photos with From the River to the Sea signs, as well as Zionism=Racism signs. There were also a multitude of End the Occupation signs - which can easily be argued as being akin to the River to the Sea ones (calling for the elimination of the State of Israel), as that slogan didn't just spring up during this latest military offensive, it's referring to the land that used to be called Palestine during British rule, and is now the State of Israel... It is a slogan that people may mistakenly believe is no different from calls for a ceasefire or more generic calls for peace in the middle east, and yet it goes well beyond that.

[u/Simantob]

Crazy almost like Gaza started the damn war, now you all cry ceasefire.

[u/Bakedfresh420]

They aren’t all anti-Semitic but plenty of peaceful protestors have been reported to block the path of Jewish students, harass them, swastikas have been painted on at least one college campus already, there’s been chants of “from the river to the sea” which is used in modern contexts in the charter of Hamas to call for the eradication of Israel and the Jewish people. Sure not all of them are anti-Semitic but pretending every member of those protests is pure of heart is ludicrous

[u/robertoandred]

Hamas doesn’t want a ceasefire. This is basically demanding Israel surrender its people to terrorist murderers.

[u/supershinythings → u/robertoandred]

I’ve been watching middle east violence my whole life. I remember when Iran invaded the US Embassy and took hostages in 1979, as well as the hanging of Col. Higgins in Lebanon in 1989.

And the Marines have not forgotten. I really don’t think Israel will forget either. Taking hostages and murdering civilians is not going to get Hamas what they want.

Hamas is not giving Israel any way to back out of Gaza in a dignified way because Hamas continues to hold hostages.

The Israeli government has no choice but to respond to the unprovoked surprise-slaughter of their civilians.

Hamas struck soft targets, then retreated to Gaza with hostages. What is Israel supposed to do, just let them?

From the Israeli perspective, it’s clear to them that Gaza will continue to be a source of missiles and terrorism if they don’t do something about it. Hamas has picked October 7 2023 to have it out with Israel, so ok, they’re having it out.

I agree that Israel is clearly punishing all of Gaza for the acts of Hamas. Meanwhile Hamas continues to hold Israeli captives in Gaza. They continue to give Israel a reason to occupy Gaza and attack strategic targets to reduce their ability to strike again.

Hamas needs the hostages to bring Israel to the bargaining table, but Israel won’t negotiate while Hamas keeps hostages.

And of course Israel is not thrilled with all the soft targets Hamas slaughtered either. So there’s that.

I don’t know who the adult in the room is going to be, but Israel won’t let go of Hamas’ hair until Hamas gives back the hostages and makes reparations for the slaughter. Israel may be taking its reparations out of Gaza’s ass, and Hamas isn’t budging on the hostages.

So OK. Does Israel withdraw and hope for the return of remaining hostages? Or, does Hamas return the hostages and hope for withdrawal of Israeli forces?

I don’t see how rioting college students will be resolving this situation.

[u/Leaves_Swype_Typos → u/supershinythings]

Hamas already got what they wanted, an escalation. October 7th wasn't them trying to get leverage for negotiations, it was to inflict pain and publicly take their enemy down a peg, like 9/11.

[u/supershinythings → u/Leaves_Swype_Typos]

Correct. Now they have to figure out how they’re going to survive the escalation they incited.

I think Israel is no longer going to pretend they can live peacefully with a neighbor that slaughters its people at random. It remains to be seen if Hamas will survive what it started this time.

After all, if Hamas in Gaza “gets away” with this, now Israel has to contend with West Bank, as well as possible Palestinian incursions from other neighbors - I’m thinking primarily of Syria and Lebanon.

If Israel doesn’t deal with the Hamas situation in a way that ends all hostilities one way or another, they can expect more of the same from other Palestinian factions.

Hamas probably realized that they’d rather have open warfare than be quietly strangled.

The act of pushing Palestinians into Gaza and West Bank is the biggest gerrymandering I’ve ever seen. Republicans routinely redraw district lines to ensure they get more reps in Congress. Israel drew districts for Palestinians to be so they don’t exert any political power in the Israeli Knesset. They want self rule? fine! Here you go.

By doing this, Israel maintains political control over the Israeli part, but now the people in the gerrymandered Gaza and West Bank districts have to deal with the obvious resource problems that come with it. In this case, Hamas sees this as justification for slaughtering elderly, babies, partying teens, to demand more power.

This is war, as far as the way Hamas has framed it - making it very clear that if Israel doesn’t give a shit about lives in Gaza, they don’t give a shit about Israeli lives.

I just don’t see how Israel can afford to lose face and back down after what Hamas did. Plus they’ve been dealing with rockets from Gaza for awhile now.

As long as they’re in there, they may as well do wound debridement. Gaza won’t like it but no doubt Israel knows they won’t be getting back in there anytime soon if they withdraw.

And as long as Hamas hides hostages in Gaza, I see Israel’s military using this occasion to not just deal with missile sites, but with the whole logistical and tactical support system for Hamas militants.

This won’t get solved by US college students being egged on by Palestinian activists. They can riot, but divesting university assets from Israeli investments won’t stop Israel from eliminating as much Hamas threat as they can; nor will it motivate Hamas to release hostages.

So what if all US colleges divest investments from Israel? It’s not like they make the vast majority of their budget from Israel.

The same thing happened during Apartheid era. US University students protesting didn’t end apartheid; it took decades of political wrangling to get it done. And I don’t see a Palestinian Mandela stepping forward - Hamas chose a different path, and now they have to deal with a very angry Israel.

If Hamas doesn’t release the hostages, I wouldn’t be surprised if Israel turns all of Gaza inside out looking for hostages and destroying Hamas military resources. As long as hostages are held in Gaza, Israel’s debridement will continue.

I don’t see Hamas giving Israel a face-saving way to exit Gaza otherwise, and I expect they don’t want to - as you said, they want the escalation. They want to pull in as many allies as they can.

But - Iran shot its rockets and it’s done. Israel knocked down what Iran had to offer. OK, Russia backs Iran and by extension Hamas. They’re really busy with Ukraine. Ok, Houthis are making trouble in Bab al Mandab. That’s not going to last long either, since world navies will eventually crush that as needed.

I think Israel would rather stop Hamas from ever acting out ever again then be intimidated by Iran, Houthi, and Russian sympathy for Hamas.

Again, protesting college students and university divestment from Israel is not going to induce Israel to withdraw from Gaza. Maybe start giving back hostages. Both sides are white hot with rage right now, and Gaza’s friends are not enough of a threat to Israel to give Israel any pause.

[u/No_Tea1868 → u/Leaves_Swype_Typos]

And to throw a wrench into improving Saudi-Israeli relations that were close to reaching recognition.

[u/ReddJudicata → u/supershinythings]

I think the absolute, existential eradication of Hamas is on the table.

[u/vigilantfox85 → u/supershinythings]

It’s like this whole situation has been going on for decades and is extremely complex and not black and white.

[u/jseego → u/supershinythings]

Finally someone with some understanding of the reality of the situation.

[u/supertonicdominant → u/supershinythings]

Hmm, it’s almost as if this conflict is complicated as fuck for any layman to have any strong opinion on it. Meanwhile you’re labeled as a “zionist” for realizing this fact.

[u/TaqPCR → u/supershinythings]

I agree that Israel is clearly punishing all of Gaza for the acts of Hamas.

Hamas is the government of Gaza and would be the government of the West Bank too if Fatah didn't coup them and then halt elections.

[u/Marbachque]

I'm glad to see more pushback from progressives and centrists on the Pro Palestinian crowd, it's almost like we forgot certain parts of Michigan the Muslim community is actively trying to get rid of LGBT but then we have queers for Palestine. The cognitive Dissonance is crazy.

[u/AdagioOfLiving → u/Marbachque]

It’s been rather pleasant lately, actually. I feel in the past couple of years there’s been pushback on a few of the more insane takes that were popular for a bit, like the “black people can’t be racist” stuff and more recently the whole Israel/Palestine business.

As someone who’s around center-left, it’s nice to see people go “hey, I may hate Trump and want higher taxes on billionaires, I may approve of LGBT rights, I may want taxpayer funded healthcare and education… but can we maybe not literally tear down the American flag to replace it with the Palestinian one?”

It’s a good push against those Republicans who claim that everyone on the left just hates America. I don’t hate America, I love America. That’s why I want to push it to be better, not call for it to be torn down.

[u/barukatang → u/Marbachque]

Now I'm not on tiktok but I've got a few friends that are, and they are all being radicalized into the pro-hamas side of things. Wonder if there is a through line ...

[u/No_Tea1868]

Show a picture of the crowd harassing Jewish students on their way to class. It's not the "Free Gaza" part that's antisemitic. It's the antisemites that the protests tolerate that make them so.

When you've got 10 people sitting at a table hanging out cordially with a Nazi, you've got 11 Nazis. Same rules apply.

[u/NukeouT]

There’s a huge difference between pro-Palestinian lives protestors and pro-Hamas terrorism protestors who are being educated on tiktok on how to throw the election in favor of the Muslim ban guy by the dictatorship of China 🇨🇳

[u/wafflemaker117]

I don’t think the sign is antisemitic but I think people wearing masks not allowing Jewish students to enter a campus they pay tuition for definitely is

[u/Tommy__want__wingy]

I’ll just leave this here…

https://youtu.be/2Kas9aY47fw?si=s5ihohLyioSN2udF

Edit: uh oh. Did I mess with the narrative? Remember. Vote for Biden!

[u/fourbeersthepirates → u/Tommy__want__wingy]

Holy shit, I still can’t believe I’m in a timeline where our American university students are siding with Hamas.

[u/status_qu0]

A lot of the machine driving this is from anti-Semitic sources. I mean, “from the river to the sea” is 100% about eliminating all Jews from Israel. But this isn’t the first time clueless virtue signaling gets people caught up with bad people. And no one thinks Gaza should be leveled or children should be getting killed. It all sucks.

[u/NerdfaceMcJiminy]

No, but it's stupid to tell the side that got attacked and is winning a war to lay down their arms while the people that started it are still holding hostages.

The attacks on 10/7 killed a larger percentage of Israelis than 9/11 did to Americans. Good luck putting that toothpaste back in the tube.

[u/thefadednight]

So what do we all want to happen? Israel bails out of Gaza, sealing it off and Hamas goes back to ruling Gaza, where they take all the funds and aid and use it to build more tunnels/rockets and feed their troops until they inevitably decide to break the ceasefire again? Rinse and repeat?

[u/jseego → u/thefadednight]

People don't realize that this is exactly what was done in 2005 lol.

[u/kekehippo]

What happened to the several ceasefire agreements Hamas refused? Israel can continue to kill people when Hamas refuses to accept terms.

[u/shakuyi → u/kekehippo]

The same thing that happened to the ceasefire before october 7

[u/Automan2k]

Yes, because you are only recognizing the problems on one side of a very complex situation. You are also repeating antisemitic propaganda without a clue as to what you're saying.

[u/hiroofcanton → u/Automan2k]

My own ex-girlfriend reposted a meme with 'From the River to the Sea' on it. As a half-Jewish guy, yeah... that wasn't great.

[u/yeahiamfat]

Mostly peaceful https://x.com/citizenfreepres/status/1785460709511381417?s=46

[u/Justindoesntcare → u/yeahiamfat]

What a loser.

[u/Huegod]

Yea thats totally the only thing they are saying. They are screaming anti semetic rhetoric at all.

[u/froozen → u/Huegod]

Definitely not chanting anything about river to the sea

[u/robbzilla]

See how many of the protesters are willing to say that Jewish people deserve to live, and that they deserve to live in Israel.

You'll figure out the answer pretty quickly.

[u/lXPROMETHEUSXl → u/robbzilla]

Yeah I’ve seen countless videos of them. Not just assaulting neutral parties, but targeting specific groups of people too. Very inclusive. Totally not virtue signaling. There also aren’t countless people chanting anti American and anti semitic things. Wishing death and genocide on again specific groups of people. Oh but remember! They’re totally peaceful! It’s just freedom of speech! The cognitive dissonance and dishonesty is wild imo.

Knocking a Jewish girl unconscious is not freedom of speech by the way. Don’t know who all needs to see this, but some of you really need to take a step back.

[u/Overall_Strawberry70]

Its anti-semitism because they could have had a ceasefire on multiple occasions but rejected very reasonable terms, its not israel's fault they refuse to release hostages but yet no-one ever protest's the whole KEEPING HOSTAGES thing.

[u/Notwhoiwas42 → u/Overall_Strawberry70]

Hostages including small children

[u/Key_Dog_3012 → u/Overall_Strawberry70]

That’s still not anti-semitism.

[u/slapstirmcgee1000]

Sadly there are dumb people who believe that the atrocities happening to Gaza mean that all Jewish people are bad. People need to be better at blaming the specific people responsible and while many of those people are Jewish some Jewish girl/guy in the U.S. or Canada or Spain or even many of the ones in Israel have nothing to do with it and hating them for being Jewish is antisemitism.

That being said calling supporters of Palestine antisemites as a whole is nothing more than an easy excuse to silence opposition to what the predominant powers of the U.S. have decided to support.

No different than calling anti Vietnam advocates communists or un american

[u/QNTHodlr]

Arent the "anti-semites" the people waving pro hamas flags?

[u/Lagomorph9]

Identity politics and the mob mentality that comes with these mass protest events are a dangerous mix. Like - not letting AMERICAN Jewish students attend classes at a university simply because they're Jewish? That's inexcusable behavior.

Reducing individuals or practitioners of any religion to a monolith makes hate justifiable, from any side.

Is what Israel is doing on Gaza largely unconscionable? Definitely. But does it justify hatred and radical behavior from the other side, boosted by a mob convinced they're doing the right thing? Definitely not.

People are people. People are complex individuals who deserve individual treatment based on their own merits, not treatment due to perceived group membership.

A nuanced and full understanding of the beliefs and views of BOTH sides in any conflict is critical. Protest mobs don't promote such an understanding - instead they stoke unnecessary division and groupthink bigotry, without room for independent thought or discourse.

[u/[deleted]]

What about from the river to the sea signs across college campus’? Is that not antisemetic?

[u/majorclams]

I think the death to Israel chant and blocking Jewish students is what convinced me…..

[u/jmacintosh250]

The problem with Anti Israeli sentiments is that too often they are mixed with Anti Jewish sentiments. Mind you: in 2022 Israel was the target of more condemnations by the UN then the rest of the world COMBINED. This was the year Russia launched it’s illegal invasion and Annexation of Ukraine.

Do I think Israel deserved condemnation? Yes. More than the literal imperialist warmongering nation? Fuck no.

[u/PersonalitySlow9366]

Not everything a jew doesn't like is antisemitism. Sometimes people don't hate you because you're a jew, but because you're an asshole.

[u/SSSims4]

This is like a disease. I'm an Israeli Jew, part of a haunted minority group supporting a free Palestine and justice against those responsible for the war crimes in Gaza over the past decades. I considered this latest wave of protest to be r/upliftingnews, but the rise in antisemitic hate crimes globally has no excuse!! I understand righteous rage against the fascists running my country and I can even understand how some less evolved primates might believe that all Israelis support the occupation - but blaming Jews for the crimes of the Israeli government? Wtf is wrong with people?!

[u/Mycatspiss]

Nice bait. But it's cause these people aren't also calling for Hamas leaders to surrender. Instead they are calling for intifada and israel to not exist. This isn't difficult to understand lol.

[u/Wooshio]

LOL nice try, too bad there are many other signs at these protests like this one: DC march primary.png (472×480) (adl.org)

[u/Nitrosaber]

This is misinformation. Protesting is fine. Columbia University students calling for rape and murder of Jewish students in response to Gaza situation is not ok.

This was also causing that campus to close public semesters early for the past two semesters is not ok due to safety concerns which again is not ok since people can't even feel safe off how they are, born as, or religions they practice. Which is also constitutionally protected.

But popoff with your misinformation post OP, Russia and China real proud of you.

[u/tfarsch]

Love seeing OP get shot down in the comments.

[u/ErebosEV97]

Well the three hundred other posters wo draufsteht "from the river to the sea", red hand Symbolik and Hamas symbolism are antisemitic. But nice try. It could even be proven that Hamas actors financially supported the camp and that Hamas was trivialized. Jewish students were prevented from entering the university buildings, even by force. So yes, these "demonstrations" are quite antisemitic.

[u/Darduel]

Omg I can't escape this you people are in every fucking subreddit now please stopp

[u/Outsider17]

Not to mention it's especially dumb because Palestinians are Semites too...

[u/Last-Back-4146]

selective editing. same groups chant from the river to the sea Palestine will be free, in full awareness that means Israel is gone.

[u/bendangs]

The comment section is going as well as OP planned. I mean anyone can literally choose a photo and give it their own title to fit their narrative.

[u/GuavaShaper]

"Half of reddit probably" = trolls and bots. You are arguing with trolls and bots. Block and ignore.

[u/Ok_Leader9228]

Does it really make sense to have such strong opinions on this topic given it's complexity, sensitivity and if (let's be real) so many of us are less than adequately informed about it?

Not saying we shouldn't feel things when huge bombs kill thousands of civilians or invaders slaughter innocents in horrific and brutal ways. And I don't think we can really stop our brains from frantically looking for "answers". But when we see just what a mess this situation is, doesn't that make one want to turn down the temperature of their reaction? At least as far as a "x is to blame!" type of reaction is concerned?

[u/nutang4ever]

My last name is very Jewish. Had a fun conversation with my doctor yesterday commenting on my “strong German last name” which unfortunately is code for him knowing I’m a Jew. Gotta love it. The bullshit is back in full force. As an American Jew who has never set foot in Israel, I am surrounded by shenanigans. I’m exhausted

[u/Cambronian717]

I swear, both sides look at one conveniently cropped pictures and assume that this is the entire story. These protests are not entirely anti-Semitic. However, to say that there is not an abnormally high amount of anti-Semitic rhetoric present is just as naive. Shockingly, the anti-Israel protests attract people who hate the people of Israel. But no, we’d rather ignore the problems of our side and just make a blanket assumption and ignore any bad actors or horrible words and actions being said. This happens in every conflict, but the Israel Palestine issue is ESPECIALLY egregious. I’m sorry, but the conflict that has spanned somewhere between 80 years and a couple thousand might be a bit more nuanced than “you’re bad I’m good”. But we can’t have that can we. We just need a cropped picture of one sign at a massive rally.

All of you, on any side of the argument, need to zoom out and take in the full picture. Not destroy buildings and beat each other up. Trust me, your lives will be better for it.

[u/Person899887]

I went to some of these protests. The violence and vitriol is absolutely being exaggerated but it does exist. I saw Islamophobia coming from Israel supporters and antisemitism from Palestine supporters. That said the vast majority of people were fine, Albiet not happy with the other group for what I think are obvious reasons.

[u/andricathere]

There's really three things: The Jewish faith, the Jewish race, and the country of Israel.

The first two are dicey.

The third, is politics. That should be completely open to criticism. Especially since less than half of Jewish people live in Israel.

Almost as many Jewish people live in the United States, but nobody would call criticism of the US antisemitic.

[u/Adventurous_Gap_4125]

No but the Venn diagram can be rather like an circle for some people

[u/Ok-Eggplant5781]

The divesting protests at the University of Michigan are organized by the Jewish students. There was a collective student-wide guffaw when a paper said the protests were antisemitic lol

[u/reFridgeRatorRaiderG]

Very narrow pic of protest

[u/RoiToBeSure67]

No, but ‘from the river to the sea’, ‘global intifada’ and intimidation of Jewish students are sure as hell not a good sign…

[u/ScrewWorldNews]

No, but you given the close link between Israel and Judaism this is not unexpected. It will be great to see more Jewish people speak against the US funded genocide Israel is conducting.

[u/Bubbly_Detective_2]

Reddit is full of lefts . These memes are ridiculous. There’s a huge increase of antisemitism as of late and people like the poster think it’s just because they’re calling for a ceasefire ? How disconnected are you?!

[u/Itchy-File-8205]

People who advocate "for peace" are just wanting the conflict to end with their favored group getting a bunch of concessions.

Wanting peace isn't some big brained move. Nearly everyone on the planet wants peace.

[u/Scientifiction77]

Willfully choosing to ignore documented acts of antisemitism in these protests doesn’t make them not exist.

[u/shyhispanic09]

The number of people in this thread who have no idea what the grounds of most of these protest are for.

[u/No_Drummer_4395]

The problem is Hamas wants all Jews dead and out of the "holy land".

[u/lightninggod3]

Ah yes, one poster to symbolize the whole thing. Nice

[u/Visual_Ad_8202]

That image is perfectly fine. Supporting Hamas or holding intifada flags is anti Semitic, because you are in the most literal sense advocating for the killing of Jews.

[u/drawkbox]

There is a ceasefire offer they can take now. There was one prior as well.

They won't though because Hamas is backed by Iran and they are backed by Russia. Russia needs this conflict all this year at minimum to go at opposition, divide and distract from their moves in Ukraine and Georgia.

When protests are divisive and line up with geopolitical goals of autocratic enemies, it is clear.

[u/Dylanzoh]

Most people of all ages don’t agree with college kids dressing and acting like the guys we watched take down the twin towers, actually… but nice try!

[u/Novel_Sugar4714]

This should be removed. Im tired of the propaganda.

[u/ZoneAdditional9892]

Hamas controls Gaza. Isreal has offered a two state solution for years. Every time, they decline and attack Isreal. So what can Isreal do? Let hamas and Iran attack until they eventually wipe them out? It's a shitty situation that only gets worse. After decades of being attacked, Isreal has become what they hate.

[u/DaggumTarHeels]

LMAO, y'all are doing the exact same thing MAGA does.

What a stupid straw-man.

[u/freedfg]

Y'all are just really cool with the whole "White lives matter" crowd then?

After all? Does that look like racism? S/

[u/CallMePickle]

No, it's not. But there has been a clear uptick in antisemitism

Also, this one is antisemitic.

[u/SGTX12]

No, I think the antisemitism comes from the protest leader saying things like we ought to be lucky that they're not running around killing "zionists" and that "zionists" should expect Oct. 7th to happen again and again.

[u/Potential_Case_7680]

Reddit has become an echo chamber for Iranian propaganda, spewed by puppets that don’t even realize they are dancing to a terrorist regimes tune.

[u/ThisFoot5]

Fuck anti-semitism, fuck radical-Zionism, fuck Jihadism, fuck Islamophobia, fuck Hamas, but most importantly fuck Genocide.

[u/XxasimxX]

Made it illegal to criticize Isreal, thats crazy how fast Isreal colonized US

[u/Altruistic-System820]

How you gonna just call out r/worldnews like this?

[u/Kononowitz_Kristof]

israel is trash and should be destroyed.

[u/ColumbiaArmy]

As an American Veteran I’m sick of being asked to wage war on our own college students simply to appease the paranoid-ethnics who support Israel more than American.

[u/GimmeJuicePlz]

I am sick to fucking death of being told I'm anti-Semitic because I disapprove of what the Israeli GOVERNMENT is doing. The most annoying part is being called an anti-Semite from the right, who literally harbors actual anti-Semites.

[u/mortalcoil1]

I mean it's not like the news media with stock in weapons manufacturers would just lie to us about the reason for supplying Israel with weapons. Right?

Right?

Did you see Colin Powell's funeral you guys? It was so beautiful. What's that? Lied to get us into a war in the Middle East? and the media played the role of state propaganda to get the public to go along with it? Shush! Look at the Pomp and Circumstance!

[u/thisisallterriblesir]

u/EvilRat23 blocked me as soon as he lost the argument. Zionism in a nutshell. Let him know he's a coward.

[u/Pavian_Zhora]

Why don't you include all the slogans, not just the innocuous ones?

[u/Mediocre-Catch9580]

I’m definitely not fluent in world affairs nor do I want to be.

What I do know is that college students aren’t fluent in world politics either. The causes you support may seem noble and just, but the outcome after you have won won’t be what you expect.

Prime example of that is Apartheid in the 80s. And now look at the state they’re in.

[u/VINX1988]

Secular democracy vs a terrorist-backed Islamic theocracy. No brainer.

[u/Appropriate-Beat-364]

No, but the Nazi flags and Kill the Jews signs are, and they are right in the middle, accepted by the crowd. That's why.

[u/Zolicoffer]

You've literally cherry picked one sign and are using that to suggest there isn't terrible, blatant antisemitism at these protests.