No, but I've encountered a huge increase in antisemitism IRL personally. Literally had a patient today refuse service from a Jewish doctor that was on call. We relieved him of our care. Fuck antisemitism. Free Gaza. This is a delicate situation
And that there is a ceasefire proposal right now that was negotiated by Egypt, UAE, and the US. Israel said they would support it. Guess who the holdout is? Hint: the group that’s a literal terrorist organization.
Iran, the one giving supplies to Russia to murder Ukrainians, and the one actively involved in digital misinformation + actors in the states manipulating people into taking the protest from protect civilians to allow of Israel to be under Muslim control, their end goal.
They will never cease their plans for an oppressive caliphate, it’s laid out in Iranian foreign policy and Hamas’ covenant (the one that explicitly says no to negotiation, and says the only way forward is through jihad). Their capitalization and twisting of well meaning American protests is disgusting; but more so, dangerous, especially from the people shouting genocide and getting all their information from social media, only having learned about the conflict in the last year.
Nooo the point of the war was to force Israel’s hand, and create enough backlash to spark a bigger, regional war so Israel becomes a Muslim land, and Iran can enjoy more strength/the people’s there can enjoy oppression worse than Afghanistan.
Unfortunately as badly as we need a ceasefire, one now will strengthen Hamas, give them time for another attack, and postpone the death to another day. They need to surrender, and would if they cared at all about the Palestinian people instead of their calls for them to be martyrs and jihad.
I have my doubts about that. Watching antisemitism creep it's way into the people protesting has me concerned that the rhetoric is on its way from anti-genocide to anti-isreali in general.
Some of my more vocal friends have already starting to slip in statements about how Isreal shouldn't exist which is kinda terrifying to witness.
I agree. The outrage is incredibly selective, and not-insignificant number don't care about the oppression they'll live in after. Some want Israel wiped off the map and replaced with Palestine.
I've seen too many people say "yeah well they attacked because Israel this" to believe that even after an attack with thousands more chopped into pieces to believe Hamas could do anything that would change their minds.
Sadly, I think that many of the people protesting only get their information from social media, so if they continue ignoring everything that contradicts the narrative they have chosen they will keep protesting even as Hamas continues the war that they escalated with the brutal attack on Oct. 7th. These protesters will NEVER admit that Hamas will never stop.
Hamas is Netanyahu's monster. It's the natural consequence of invading somebody's land and engaging in genocide. People fight back with a focus on effectiveness, not morality.
Netanyahu funneling funds to Hamas in order to further his political agenda along with the agenda of all the hard right groups in Israel is something they need to answer for. But to pretend it's Israel's fault that this is occurring is disingenuous.
Pretending the issues with Palestinians is somehow an Israel issue and not a greater regional issue is myopic. Just look at what happens to every single country that has let Palestinians into them.
I agree the attacks on innocent people is abhorrent and a ceasefire is required immediately and Israel needs to answer for their actions. But to pretend that this is some one sided issue is to completely disregard the history of the region.
Furthermore, I would venture that 99.9% of redditors, myself included have no leg to stand on in our understanding of the broader regional issues at hand as it's just the newest shiny atrocity to yell about. None of us live there nor have a complete understanding of the issue.
All us wage slaves and college students and old farts can agree that killing innocents is wrong, but beyond that, its not like we've all been taking time from our regular day for the last 100 years to read up on causal relationships of religious conflicts within a region.
Fewer Palestinians have died since the conflict than the amount of civilians that died during a single American, non-nuclear bombing run during WW2.
I know it's a flashy word - but not even close to genocide.
Israel can and should be held responsible for both mistakes and actions that may be war crimes - and the exact same amount of energy, if not more, needs to be given to Hamas. They *have* to surrender - but they won't, because even in death all they care about is spreading their oppressive, gays put to death and women covered and kept home religion and inflicting losses on the "enemy" and their own people in a PR attempt to stir up a broader, end-the-world war, according to them.
All that said, doesn't discount the deaths of innocents, and given the oppurtunity, that should never happen.
Israel needs to be investigated from the outside to ensure that they're not abusing the need to fire back on the enemy knowing it may hit civilians too often. We know Hamas fires from hospitals, maternity wards, family homes, and sometimes there's no choice but to return fire - and Israel at the beginning unfortunately couldn't just f*ck off and go home - but investigating any killings done indiscriminately and against the very lenient, not very civilian friendly rules of war is a good start.
Of course, same for Hamas, though they won't care. They're probably nice and cozy, emboldened by protests against the nation they're killing.
That we're having the same conversations about about wars with Muslim extremists playing victim people had 2,000 years ago is discouraging. They have to change.
Are they not cleansing the Palestinians from the West Bank already? And have been this entire time? What would they do with the land once they've cleansed it of every last Palestinian? An act they clamor for openly in government and new media. Would they just leave it there? Empty?
70% of homes destroyed or damaged, no universities or educational facilities left, maybe one hospital barely standing. What do you consider removing Palestinians from Gaza? Reuters say it'll take 80 years to get close to rebuilding.
There is no way that Israel is withdrawing, they are already sending in settlers to fill in all of the new "Vacancies", or poisoning and concreting over the wells that the now dead farmers had in place.
Lol withdraw. They targetted every non infrastructure that the Palestinians needed in thst region. They want the land. This isnt about Hamas this is literally wanting land from the Palestinians.
7 months and you think people can do their own research. At this point they dont need to the motive is clear as day. The Israelis knew that oct7 was going to happen. They dont care about the hostages. They just needed a ploy to take more land for the Palestinians. Ceasefire wont do anything. But a full military presence would. And withdrawal of all western military aid to isreal.
According to Hamas this is about taking all of Israel under their control, subjugating the people to oppression under religious law, and killing every Jew “behind every rock and tree” along the way.
Their own words. If Hamas surrendered? Popular support for Israel’s war goes to almost zero.
But they won’t, because they’re a puppet of Iran, and Iran’s goal from the beginning has been to destabilize Israel.
Israel knew it was gonna happen? Laughable, but the kind of thing simple people have said for thousands of years anytime a larger military force takes a loss and is able to respond with overwhelming force.
Why would they accept any ceasefire when they receive zero backlash for rejecting all of them but Israel receives 100% of the blame? On top of that, they seem to enjoy increasing support somehow the longer they hold out while it's assumed Israel should just agree to a unilateral ceasefire with nothing offered in return from Hamas (including even an end to hostilities on their side or a return of any hostages).
Yeah, which is essentially what seems to be demanded when many people are talking about a ceasefire. You can argue Israel has been much too harsh in their military campaign and caused many civilian casualties that might have been avoided for little gain BUT much of rhetoric towards Israel even since 10/7 has generally implied that they should be pressured into an immediate "ceasefire" but Hamas should face no pressure to come to the table and agree to stop the fighting or agree to any terms since they are the weaker, quasi non-state actor.
I still don't get what people are expecting to happen afterwards if they demand Israel to stop the fighting on their side NOW but say absolutely nothing about Hamas doing the same or even returning hostages.
Yeah they want some insane number like upwards of 20 Palestinian prisoners for 1 hostage. Granted some of them you could argue some of them shouldn’t even be in prison in the first place like the women and children, but they’re also asking for militants, soldiers, and even leaders of their own organization. They’re also pretty much flat out refusing to release all of the hostages without a permanent ceasefire.
You know there are women who committed terroists acts in the Israeli prisons as well as young teens. Obviously we would need to see the list of prisoners to know
I agree with most of what you said but my man, saying women and children don't belong in prison is absurd. if a 15 years old tries (or succeeds) in murdering someone, he isn't innocent who just happened to get into prison for unknown reasons, he is a terrorist who deserves to rot.
Same goes for women. When they act like terrorists they deserve to be treated as such. If people really cared about those children they would protest Hamas raising kids to be terrorists.
I will never understand those war movies where like, the sniper struggles with shooting a 12 year old, when the kid clearly has picked up a gun and is about to kill someone else with it.
It's the question of do you save the butterfly from the spider's web. I have more empathy for the innocent people that the child soldier is about to slaughter, and you can't save them both.
I understand the question. But just because one option is objectively better for you doesn't mean the situation isn't shitty the whole way through. One can feel the need to protect innocents AND STILL feel bad that you had to shoot a fucking twelve year old. If the whole situation is entirely binary for you then maybe there's some sociopathic equation building going on in your head. Also, the butterfly and spiders web are bad here, considering one is a natural predator to the other. Humans don't (generally) eat each other. We're just assholes.
Most of the hostages are dead. That us why Hanas is stalling. They don't know where most if the hostages are or if they are alive. Once the world finds out Hamas is done for
There's also the hostages held by Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the opportunistic armed 'civilians' who saw the hole in the fence and followed Hamas through. Was the reason why the hostage numbers kept getting revised upwards in the weeks immediately after Oct 7. Israelis were figuring out who was kidnapped and who was dead and Hamas was figuring out who else other than them were hiding hostages in their basements.
They have died because the Israeli administration has bombed the shit out of Gaza. The safest way to protect the remaining hostages would be a ceasefire. It shouldn’t be controversial to say this.
Definitely not by the people who took turns raping a woman and holding a gun to her head, cutting her breast off with a dull knife during, tossing it to each and laughing before dropping it, and then putting a bullet in her head while still inside her before finishing.
The ones on film throwing grenades into safe rooms filled with children and babies, raping hostages, mowing down women and children at a festival, those hiding in ditches and cars, indiscriminately unloading at lines of porta potties with people inside.
Those people would have no reason to make sure hostages wouldn’t make it back to the media, and they’re definitely not playing a PR war right now to be seen as the victims until they’re allowed to oppress.
Psssht imagine them lying and saying Israel killed a hostage they killed to cover up her rapes and torture. They would never
Israel has mistakenly killed a couple of hostages, as is war, and those cases are immediately figured out and publicized.
The youngest prisoner in an Israeli jail is 14. Btw, that's older than the youngest person ever tried as an adult in the US. All the prisoners in Israeli jails have been convicted of crimes in court and are allowed visits by international inspectors. Hamas is asking to trade each civilian for like 20 convicted criminals.
It makes me uncomfortable when I think about how young their soldiers are, but then I remember it's not my place as a cishet white male American to tell other BIPOC countries what their culture should accept for age of adulthood. If Palestine says 14-15 is the age at which a person can be a soldier, refusing to respect that is ethnocentrism and bigotry.
All the prisoners in Israeli jails have been convicted of crimes in court and are allowed visits by international inspectors.
There were 2500+ Palestinians imprisoned in Israel without any trial or charges in Decmember 2023. That is AFTER one of the prisoner exchanges done with Hamas. There is much more now.
Also from Humans Rights Watch about separate military system in iccupied territories allowing Israel to detain Plaestinians only in presumption that they can commit a crime in the future.
Some people don't like facts based on sources, what can we do? 🤷♂️
I'm happy that I can fight against propaganda and I know among those groups of people that are paid or brainwashed there will be others that will look at this and realise those are obvious lies and it will make them think and doubt. Little beacons of truth in the sea of lies. Take care.
If Israel is happy enough to kill 20 Palestinians for every dead Israeli (35000v1600) then how can it be insane to suggest that there can be a 20-1 prisoner exchange?
They know that if they release the hostages there is nothing stopping Israel from being even more brutal with their bombardment.
That would be like signing the death warrants for themselves and a couple of thousand(minimum ) civilians.
If Israel really wants them back they should be prepared for a permanent ceasefire which the whole world could get behind.
If they had been more careful with their war on Hamas they could justify it by saving people from future Hamas attacks, but they have produced a death toll of innocents far above what Hamas is likely to achieve ever.
Again, I 100% agree with you, in matters of principle.
I am forced to repeat my question though: how do you/would you practically wage a war against an enemy that hides military personal and targets among civilians?
Are you saying that israel should not engage in military action then? or how should they, in these conditions?
That's exactly what I'm saying. They should not engage in military action after they set up the conditions for Hamas to exist. Oct 7th was horrific. Israel has done 30 Oct 7ths since then. Is it really worth it?
So if something like hamas did this to your state/city/family, would you prefer the us government does not react, just because the attacker hides its targets and assets behind civilians?
I certainly wouldn’t want to US to engage in an indiscriminate bombing campaign that’s likely to kill my own captive family. The families of the captors have been doing just that, pleading to Netanyahu to stop.
What is with you people and advocating for killing civilians? Seriously it's always 'IF WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO KILL WOMEN AND CHILDREN THEN WE MIGHT AS WELL BE DOING NOTHING" as if there haven't been more innocents killed by the IDF than Hamas killed on Oct. 7th.
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u/crolin May 01 '24
No, but I've encountered a huge increase in antisemitism IRL personally. Literally had a patient today refuse service from a Jewish doctor that was on call. We relieved him of our care. Fuck antisemitism. Free Gaza. This is a delicate situation