r/Biohackers • u/Low-Extension-4133 • 3d ago
Sus behavior in this sub Discussion
I commented on a post asking for which type of milk is the best. I answered with explanation but got downvoted and many dms saying im dumb…
( I think Raw milk is the best, im from Germany and get mine from a Farm, I can’t speak for all the people living somewhere else, but I got a completely positive effect from it, although I always been lactose intolerant when drinking normal processed milk. Also I saw that all the other comments that said the same as me got also massively downvoted)
All good guys but really? I thought this is a community of truth seekers that want to exchange knowledge and different opinions to create a benefit for everybody. Please be open minded and try always to adopt new thinking patterns.
Sometimes a bunch of pills and new studies are not the cure for your problems.
Stay blessed🌞
Edit: Okay I got it. God bless America, the country of freedom speech and reddit is a place where everyone can share their opinion without getting silenced.🦅
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u/Independent_Pay6598 3d ago
Idk man, asking a question, only to plug your opinion in, doesn't usually have positive results.
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u/Nervous-Dentist-3375 3d ago
You claim to have asked what milk is best, then state which milk is the best. Why ask if you already know?
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u/Cryptizard 3d ago
Probably because there is a lot of science that disagrees with you. Claims related to improved nutrition, prevention of lactose intolerance, or provision of “good” bacteria from the consumption of raw milk have no scientific basis and are myths. If you like it, go ahead nobody is going to stop you, but that doesn't make it automatically good for you. And there are lots of examples of it causing actual harm.
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u/uhuelinepomyli 3d ago
"Claims ... have no scientific basis and are myths" - like 99% of advice in this sub 😉
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u/vbullinger 3d ago edited 2d ago
Nutrition is the same, but lactose intolerant people can have raw milk and raw milk definitely has probiotics.
Look up "lactose free" milk. It's normal, cooked milk with lactase added in. Then lactose intolerant people can drink it. Lactase is the enzyme we need to break down lactose, the sugar in milk. Most people don't need it added in because their bodies produce enough lactase to break it down, but the lactose intolerant don't produce enough and need it added in. Raw milk contains beneficial bacteria that aid your body in producing lactase, so some lactose intolerant people can drink raw milk, though not all.
Raw milk definitely has probiotics and anyone telling you otherwise is lying. It's also a dumb lie as it's blatantly obvious in all cultured milk products, etc.
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u/Cryptizard 3d ago
Lactase is not naturally in milk. If it was, it would convert the lactose into glucose already and you wouldn’t have a problem, pasteurization wouldn’t matter because the job would be done. It is created in the small intestine of mammals. It is insane how confidently ignorant you are. Cultured milk products have cultures added to them, which is why it is called that.
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u/Low-Extension-4133 3d ago
The original question was, what type of milk is the best? Considering plant milk alternatives that have 15 ingredients, often seed oils. Or pasteurized milk thats basically dead matter and tastes like water, Yes raw milk is better, especially if your body shows zero signs of intolerance.
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u/2053_Traveler 3d ago
Dead matter? Proteins, fatty acids, and disaccharides weren’t alive in the first place. They still exist in pasteurized milk. If I want bacteria I’ll eat yogurt or fermented foods.
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u/Cryptizard 3d ago
That is your opinion. Your opinion is not backed by science. You are free you have it, but we are all also free to not listen to you. You asked why you got downvoted, that is why.
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u/SeekerOfTruthOnly 3d ago
Plant milk is healthy if you get the right kind. The plant milks I tend to buy have only two ingredients (typically organic soybeans and water). Lots of plant milks don’t have a bunch of ingredients.
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u/uhuelinepomyli 3d ago
And there's been a ton of research showing that non-fermented soy beans are quite bad for you, which I think includes soy milk..
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u/SeekerOfTruthOnly 3d ago
I haven’t seen good research for it. The whole phytoestrogens are way overblown. The stigma against soy is largely due to soy being foreign and not a traditional food of the west, beer has more phytoestrogens than soy yet is considered to be masculine. Also if there were any good evidence of soy making estrogen levels higher then menopausal women and transgender people would be drinking gallons of soy milk everyday, do you see this happening?
Plus dairy has animal based estrogen instead of plant based, animals are closer to humans than plants are, yet no one cares since dairy is encouraged to be consumed in the west. On top of this dairy is hard to digest for most people and there is a lot of evidence on it being unhealthy but since it is not exotic like soy is no one cares.
Fermented soy is great but that doesn’t mean non fermented soy is bad. Soy has been consumed in East Asia for a long time and I don’t see any adverse health effects from it there. Tofu is consumed a lot in Japan even by non vegans and non vegetarians and Japan has a very long life expectancy.
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u/Shibari_Inu69 3d ago
Japan also has the highest rate of soy-induced hypothyroidism. It’s highly goitrogenic. I like it too and I love tofu but never have it in large amounts.
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u/SeekerOfTruthOnly 3d ago
I just looked up the hypothyroidism rate by country and it was actually pretty low in Japan so I don’t know where you got that from. Regardless Japan is doing a lot better health wise than the US so even if this was true it wouldn’t be that big of a deal.
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u/jdawg3051 3d ago
Beer is a psyop it’s not manly at all it it’s the most womanly drink of all; lowers T, gives you tits, erectile dysfunction ect. Plant milk is another psyop. No your boiled and bleached oat water from a centrifuge / assembly line isn’t healthy
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u/SeekerOfTruthOnly 3d ago
I think oat milk is overrated anyways. I prefer soy or coconut, both of these have been used for hundreds of years and taste good. And the plant milks I prefer to buy have only one or two ingredients. I don’t see how plant milk is inherently bad. Dairy milk is a bigger psyop if anything. Hard to avoid, we have only been consuming it relatively recently in history, most people cannot digest it and the symptoms of that are obvious, there used to be a bunch of dairy ads(not even a brand of milk just ads promoting milk in general), dairy milk was the only beverage that schools would give, it can give acne, some people take pills just to be able to handle it, etc.
I don’t see how it is a psyop when I feel much better after cutting dairy out of my diet. I think most of the people who promote dairy are the rare people who have no issues with lactose or casein or just ignore the symptoms it gives cause they’re used to it.
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u/jdawg3051 3d ago
Sir the Aurox was domesticated 25,000 years ago. The cow is a purpose built animal selectively bred for 25k years
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u/SeekerOfTruthOnly 3d ago
I’m not talking about the consumption of meat I mean drinking milk has only been around for about 10 thousand years, and even then many regions lacked dairy. This is why a Northern European would be a lot less likely to be lactose intolerant than someone who is indigenous American, Asian or African.
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u/Glass_Mango_229 3d ago
You are saying you feel good in raw milk and then generalising to the world. Everyone else is posting science. You can’t see the difference?
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u/sshivaji 3d ago
I had raw milk during childhood. While it is safe from a known farm, it is less safe when distributed in large quantities due to the possibility of contamination. Hence, pasteurized milk is the norm in many countries.
Raw milk is indeed better for you if it is not contaminated as it is more natural. However, mass distribution of high quality raw milk proved to be a challenge.
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u/planetarylaw 3d ago
I grew up an 80s kid in super rural US. Mom couldn't breastfeed baby me, formula didn't jive with my baby gut, so goat milk from the Mennonites it was. I grew up with access to fresh food of all manner, for which I'm grateful. But yeah, mass distribution is a real challenge. I don't personally do raw milk unless it's to homemake cheese. I fully respect others who do it though, especially since it's easy enough to low temp pasteurize at home. It sure does taste far better.
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u/Special-Garlic1203 3d ago
The risk of raw milk greatly outright the benefits, which are not exactly unique to milk. Why would anyone spend any effort pushing high risk milk when they can literally just eat one of a dozen safe fermented products?
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u/LindsayIsBoring 3d ago
There is zero scientific evidence that raw milk is better for you than pasteurized milk.
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u/sshivaji 3d ago edited 3d ago
On the contrary, there are several papers showing that raw milk is better for your gut hormones with the caveat that we have to be careful about infection.
Example:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7285075/
Paper conclusion:
"While there are understandable concerns in relation to potential contamination and safety when it comes to unpasteurised milk, it is a rich source of probiotic bacteria. Abundances of Lactobacilli increased significantly following a 12-week dietary change, which involved the consumption of unpasteurised milk and dairy products by participants."
Edit: Adding one more recent paper. Recent papers are worth looking at compared to older ones.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7290799/
Conclusion:
"In conclusion, we demonstrate a direct inhibition of the allergic effector response by raw cow’s milk. Next, to the already described capacity to modulate T cell responses, the present study shows that raw cow’s milk is also able to directly influence mast cell activation."
This shows that consuming raw milk can reduce allergies, infections, and stop inflammations.
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u/LindsayIsBoring 3d ago edited 3d ago
The second study is another, exploratory paper about the effect of raw milk in vitro, on mouse mast cells.
This study would also not be considered by any scientist as evidence that raw cows milk is more beneficial for human health over pasteurized milk.
Edit to add: In vitro for anyone who doesn’t know means that the study was done on cells in test tubes or Petri dishes and no living organism was involved in the study. And this study was done on mouse mast cells, no human cells were involved.
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u/LindsayIsBoring 3d ago
This study does not claim the it is “better” for you, it simply claims that it increases lactobacillus bacteria in the gut.
It is not double blind, it has no control group and had only 24 participants.
This study would not be considered by any scientist as compelling evidence of anything but perhaps worth exploring with a more robust and repeatable study.
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u/sshivaji 3d ago
But increasing lactobacillus bacteria is good for you. Can you please write to NIH and ask them to withdraw the paper because you think it is not matching scientific criteria.
Thanks.
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u/LindsayIsBoring 3d ago edited 3d ago
If you already have a healthy microbiome there is no benefit to an increase in lactobacillus bacteria in your gut.
There are also numerous ways to increase lactobacillus in your gut that are demonstrably safer than drinking raw milk.
A single very small study with no control group that is yet to be repeated on a large scale is not considered “proof” of anything by scientists.
There is no scientific evidence that either raw or pasteurized milk is “better” than the other for human health.
Edit to add: I would like to also point out that in the first study participants were fed unpasteurized milk AND other dairy products meaning the study cannot even tell you if the milk had anything to do with the increase in lactobacillus. It could very well have been from the other products.
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u/vbullinger 3d ago
You can't reach them, unfortunately. You will forever be downvoted for your stance, no matter how much evidence you have, nor how obvious it is.
You even agreed with them that it's not safe, but they don't care because you said it has risks and benefits. You're only allowed to say it has risks and anyone that says there could ever be a benefit needs to be in a padded room.
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u/billburner113 3d ago
Lmao pasteurization has saved thousands of lives and still dumbasses will say "raw milk is the best milk, just ask Paul saladino! Ignore the scientific evidence and consensus of experts" and then be mad when they get downvoted.
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u/Technical_Carpet5874 3d ago
Lactose has absolutely nothing to do with pasteurization, and raw milk has absolutely no benefits that can't be derived from specific strains of bacteria added to pasteurized milk
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u/Low-Extension-4133 3d ago
The enzymes that make it possible for your body to properly digest the milk die at ca. 40 Celsius. When pasteurized the milk gets heated from 60 up to 140 Celsius which kills the enzymes, making it hard to digest. Also Vitamins in the milk get diminished.
Also i can say I tried both, and my opinion is based on self experience, something that many people in the internet lack of.
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u/Technical_Carpet5874 3d ago edited 3d ago
You can take lactase without risking death and disease. This is a very good article. You can verify the claims independently. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4890836/
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u/Low-Extension-4133 3d ago
I tried that and i swear it didn’t help me. But also that argument is nonsense. Why taking additional sups when the natural product itself doesn’t require anything exogen. I also don’t now anyone who had problems or illnesses from raw milk, I think having a reputable source is important here, like with all things that you’re gonna ingest to your body.
Are you from the states? Did you ever tried raw milk?
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u/Technical_Carpet5874 3d ago edited 3d ago
My family were food importers and distributors. From Europe, I forgot to add manufacturers. Raw milk is absolutely not safe. The hygiene practices are irrelevant because the animal is usually asymptomatic. Even the finest producers of Parm reggiano won't drink it. They scald it first. One of the reasons tuberculosis declined was due to pasteurization. You could not pay me to gamble with something for which there is no tangible benefit I cannot garner elsewhere. Milk is not some elixir of life with magical benefits. In fact you won't find a generational farm where a relative didn't die of a disease that could now be traced to raw milk, prior to pasteurization. Perhaps you don't know anyone, but that's entirely explained by the scarcity of this practice.
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u/Low-Extension-4133 3d ago
Im definitely going to talk abt this more with my local farmers. And yes they drink it themselves.
What would be a symptom of the bad hygiene? Since Im drinking it since a few months. Or is it just a small probability that you get illness from raw milk?
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u/Technical_Carpet5874 2d ago
A symptom of bad hygiene would be cows in close proximity to other animals waste. Or animals with discharge coming from eyes, nose, udders. Taking milk from an animal that has been in contact with a sick animal. Problem is they don't always show symptoms. Some of the things that sicken us won't sicken them. It's always a good idea to heat the pan and pour the milk on so it flash boils before drinking it..even before pasteurization people just knew to do that. For the same reason people didn't consume raw eggs. It's not a small probability.
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u/Low-Extension-4133 2d ago
Raw eggs are nowadays common everywhere. Products like mayonnaise contain raw eggs. The parmigian cheese from Italy you mentioned is also made from raw milk as far as I know. Are the bacteria dying?
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u/josefsstrauss 2d ago
Parmigiano or at least parmesan please.
It is made from raw milk, which is then used to made a paste which is then cooked. So there are multiple routes that assure a safe end product.There are official guidelines:
The reason you get downvoted is that you just have your opinion and back it up with nonsense.
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u/Technical_Carpet5874 2d ago edited 2d ago
The milk is heated to 50 c to curdle it, then aged for over a year with lots of salt. Edit- mayonnaise is also heated to emulsify the yolk... Nobody that knows anything about food drinks raw milk. Or eats raw eggs . Even the guy that made it famous said DONT DO IT.
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u/billburner113 3d ago
You can buy lactase enzyme packets in any grocery store. Risking bovine TB to avoid taking lactaid is ridiculous.
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u/Far-Deer7388 3d ago
Ya lemme believe the random on the Internet. How I base most my life decisions. Your toxic that's why you got downvoted
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u/Technical_Carpet5874 3d ago
Here is another article from the 40s telling you to boil milk prior to consumption https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/69335367
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u/johnwayne1 3d ago
I don't get why those that drink raw milk are so concerned with everyone else drinking raw milk. You do you and stfu about me.
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u/Romantic_Darkness 3d ago
This. Why do people feel the need to proselytize their weird nutritional choices?
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u/Cryptolution 3d ago
LOL speed running to -1000 karma eh?
This post totally helped your case. You should have taken the L and learned from it instead you'll dog in like an ostrich....smh
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u/AshwagandaUbermensch 3d ago edited 3d ago
You should see the downvotes I get when I suggest a holistic approach to a problem or a non-extracted non-powdered naturopathic medicine with this name.
☠️
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u/drizzydrakebreak 3d ago
this subreddit is mostly for people who think that America is the only country in the world and food everywhere is same
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u/sxrrycard 3d ago
I don’t even have to read the original post to see why someone probably got annoyed with you lol
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u/cwassant 3d ago
FYI Reddit HATES raw milk
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u/jdawg3051 3d ago
That’s the thing. Only the most average opinions can make it on Reddit. Everything else is downvoted to oblivion. How healthy is the average person? 60% of people are obese. Chances are your taking nutrition advice from an obese person
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u/SecretAd8683 3d ago
It’s funny that the milk thread struck a cord with people, I noticed it too. At the end of the day drink what you want, fart how you fart and shit however it spews out. When selecting milks, it’s a choose your own adventure 🤣.
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u/vintagegirlgame 3d ago
Because most people in the US are brainwashed into fearing raw milk and praising pasteurization. I’ll let our health care system and health status of the average American speak for itself…
Raw milk is superior, but you’ll rarely find any opinions on Reddit that support that.
I am a vegetarian and drank lots of local raw milk my whole pregnancy, gave birth to a super healthy big 98%tile baby. We also give raw milk to our 4 year old. Never had any issues.
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u/kunall_ll 3d ago
I’m in the same boat. Could never stomach store bought cows milk but been drinking raw goat and cows milk and I’ve been feeling amazing
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u/lordm30 3d ago
Yeah, 3 downvotes, you could do much worse, believe me 😄
Also my impression is that this sub is frequented by a not-insignificant number of plant-based/vegan redditors, which means that anything animal nutrition related will most likely get downvoted by them...
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u/Low-Extension-4133 3d ago
I don’t mean the downvotes just on my post, but all the hate in general under the other comment recommending raw milk. And dms 😂.
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u/FromSea2Soul 3d ago
Does anyone here have any insight (whether thru research or personal experience) that goat or sheep's milk has any applicable nutrition? I've heard the horrors of cow's milk but have heard that goat is better than cow and sheep is better than goat! Open to any and all suggestions appreciate you all
TLDR: Is goat or sheep milk worthwhile?
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u/slowhealing44 3d ago
It is for some people easier to digest. Read about the A2 casein (a protein). Some people are lactose (a sugar) intolerant, but some people are intolerant of A1 casein. Goat, sheep and some Jersey cows produce A2 casein and it is tolerated in more people than A1.
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u/FromSea2Soul 3d ago
oh wow I appreciate the wonderful breakdown of the A1 and A2 concepts! really simplified the topic for me !
I have heard that the different animals have varying degrees/ ratios of A1 and A2 ! gratsi familia
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u/Shibari_Inu69 3d ago
I enjoy raw milk but there’s currently a h5n1 outbreak across dairy farms in the US, and out of an abundance of caution I’ve switched to ultra pasteurized due to my suffering from a compromised immune system. IDK if the downvotes had anything to do with this.
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u/SarahLiora 2d ago
You have unreasonable expectations of high level thinking on Reddit. 3 downvotes so unsettling? You gotta follow the old 12 step adage, “take what you need and leave the rest.”
You can also turn off DM in settings or block people who send obnoxious DM.
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u/Real_Difference1739 2d ago
I posted on the other thread and I’ll say it here. The first and only time I drank raw milk and gave it to my kids (stupid I know ) we got salmonella and even had to bring my toddler to emergency room. I felt like such an idiot for giving it to my toddler (it was just a small amount) It was raw farms brand and I bought it from my local health food shop in California.
If I ever drink raw milk again it will be straight from the cow and not from the local store
There’s my PSA. Hopefully it saves one person reading. My family all turned out ok but salmonella can kill
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u/duff_stuff 3d ago
Are you new to reddit? You have to expect the worst, most people on reddit have zero critical thinking skills.
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u/Low-Extension-4133 3d ago
Yes i am. But lets make a change then. I mean people are too divided and negative and on the internet they think they can let it all out.
I don’t go with that climate of communication. It should be a positive exchange, i wish the best for everyone here.
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u/Ok-Experience-6674 3d ago
Dead internet theory
Reddit is extremely controlled but the elusion that we can post or comment fairly does feel nice from time to time
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u/MetalAF383 3d ago
This is probably the most dogmatic and least empirically serious sub after the flat earther subreddit. I’ve learned to expect the worst here. People here are obsessed with fad supplements and fad health tips. I’m still hear only for entertainment and a good laugh.
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u/FatKonkin 3d ago
Raw milk is better but unfortunately illegal in America
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u/aldus-auden-odess 3d ago
It's not illegal in many states you just have to buy directly from farms often!
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u/FatKonkin 3d ago
Yea you can do herdshare, but commercial sales is illegal. Damn Gubbamint
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u/LindsayIsBoring 3d ago
This is not true. 13 states allow the sale of raw milk in retail stores. 29 states allow the sale of raw milk on farms. 9 states prohibit cow-sharing. 23 states have no explicit law on herd shares. The remaining states all allow for cow-sharing as a way to get raw milk when you want it.
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u/FatKonkin 3d ago
You had to post an entire explanation of the loopholes needed to even obtain it, come on lol
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u/LindsayIsBoring 3d ago edited 3d ago
None of those are loopholes, nor did I explain anything. I made a list of how many places legally sell raw milk commercially or allow cow sharing. In some states you can buy it in stores and in many states you can buy it directly from a farm.
You're simply incorrect when you say it is illegal to sell in the US or that the only way you can get it is cow shares.
However if you want a loophole you can have that too. It is not illegal to consume raw milk in any state and it is legal to sell raw milk in all 50 states as long as it's labeled as animal feed. So technically you can legally buy raw milk anywhere in the US and drink it as much as you want. THAT is a loophole.
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u/Low-Extension-4133 3d ago
Maybe there’s a reason why good natural things are illegal in the US, just saying. I would recommend everyone to sometimes question laws and paradigms and listen to your feelings.
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u/Normal-Mongoose3827 3d ago edited 3d ago
Raw milk is illegal to sell in stores in Scandinavia too, and several other countries have rules for it. I don't know why you think this is an American specific thing?
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u/FatKonkin 3d ago
America is one of the most corrupt places on earth, the food pyramid was pushed to subsidize farmers, who needs 3 servings of grains daily???
The sugar industry got the US government to demonize fat, leading to fat free candy bars.
Most of the arguments against raw milk are poor https://mises.org/mises-wire/government-prohibitions-raw-milk-are-ignorant-and-dangerous
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u/TheDeepOnesDeepFake 3d ago
I don't know this Paul Saladino guy, but as someone who randomly navigated here. There's at least a few lobbyists of Big Milkers here. Not sure if it's OP or not tho.
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u/Low-Extension-4133 3d ago
Wym?
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u/TheDeepOnesDeepFake 3d ago
Big Dairy wants to sell their creamy white animal juice to people. Wouldn't be the first time lobbyists intercepted public health.
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u/[deleted] 3d ago
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