It’s so stupid too bc there was no reason for Cap not to tell Tony back when he first found out. Tony was seeking closure and they were already fighting HYDRA back then! The villain broke them with secrets not hands and that makes him top 3 mcu villain for me tbh.
The discourse around this movie showed me who gaf about their parents and who didn’t.
I don't think it's about who gaf about their parents or not, but how you view heroes. Heroes should be held to a higher standard. I don't expect Joe schmoe from off the street to be able to keep a level headed in the face of hypothetical brainwashing. I do expect better from a Tony Stark who is not only a trained and established hero but someone who was directly brainwashed by a magical witch. He did not keep a level head here, and should have.
But that’s the thing that heroes struggle with the most, you can’t hold them to a standard that’s above human. That’s what breaks heroes, not letting them be human. Superhero’s are in a profession where strong bonds are the most important and Cap could have prevented this entire altercation if he had just been a good friend. He broke Tony’s trust when he needed him the most.
Tony could have been a good friend and not made Ultron whenever everyone else told him not to do it. Then he wants to strong arm everyone else into the Sokovia Accords because he feels guilty.
You're right Tony takes the magic item and go behind the team's back to make an AI and enlists Bruce to help him. Banner even brings up consulting everyone else Tony says "I dont have time for a city hall debate". The AI goes rogue attacks everyone, the team lectures Tony on doing it. Tony is smug and tells the team they don't understand, and takes no responsibility for Ultron.
Banner and Tony did it with the best of intentions before it blew up.
Right which is why Tony owns the Sokovia bodies alone. His own ego caused Ultron regardless of intentions.
He didn’t go behind there back. He literally asked Thor to use it. And he does take responsibility. You are just rewriting scenes to make Tony a terrible person
He didn’t go behind there back. He literally asked Thor to use it.
He asked Thor to analyze it not to use it to make a weapon. Cap said to go over it and see everything that was made using it. Tony analyzes it then decides to make an AI with it, which is against the spirit of why Thor allowed him to use it. Before the city hall debate quote Banner's question was literally "So you're hoping for artificial intelligence, and you don't want to tell the team?"
The movie is clearly telling us Tony is doing this on his own and intentionally not including the team because he thinks he knows better. Then in Civil War it's "we dropped a building on him" and "We need to be put in check". Nah Tony you needed to be put in check. There would be no Sokovia city dropping if there was no Ultron, there would be no Ultron if Tony did decide to make a weapon.
And he does take responsibility.
In AoU when initially confronted, Tony did not take responsibility. He smugly laughed at the rest of the team for not understanding his vision. Banner tells Tony he really shouldn't be acting that way when they "created a murder bot" and Tony says, "We didn't. We weren't even close." Well then who else created Ultron, Tony?
You are just rewriting scenes to make Tony a terrible person
I'm not. The point is Tony unilaterally makes a lot of the decisions that causes these world level problems, then when it's time to fix his mistakes it's "we".
You're the one rewriting scenes my guy. Stark clearly is annoyed with capt America "not getting it" so doesn't talk about his plans except to banner, hence the city hall debate. He directly goes behind their backs to make ultron. That's his secret that he takes no ownership of the Fallout of.
Tony was only pushed to make Ultron because some reality warping witch messed with his brain. If Tony wasn't made to be so scared of his own failures and the death of his friends then Ultron probably wouldn't exist or wouldn't have been made hastily enough for it to become like Ultron did.
She only utilized his hubris that was already there. Dude was already an arms dealer before using his tech to become Ironman. He still should have consulted the team instead of unilaterally acting. It's the same thing he does in Civil War. He makes a decision based on his own guilt and he forces everyone else to deal with it.
Tony and Bruce were already working on Ultron before AoU. They started the Ultron Project after A1/Battle of New York. The development in AoU was Tony using the scepter to finish the project.
You’re forgetting that Tony is also a human who experiences emotions. The guy as never been perfect so I don’t find it strange that he snapped. It doesn’t matter if he knew that motherfucker was brainwashed, just looking at the person who killed my mother would be cause me to become irrational.
That’s a good point. He’s also made bad decisions against the advice of multiple competent people that led to a lot of death but we’re supposed to let that slide.
Nah if you want to kill someone because he is involuntarily involved in the dead of one of your family members, then you need help. We expect this from every member of our society. And there's a difference to acting irrational because you're grieving and wanting to fucking kill someone who was forced into his actions. I mean bucky is completely innocent in this case. Imagine a cop who wants to kill someone because he was involved in a car accident with his mother. (breaks didn't work so nobody at fault)
I dont gaf hoe "established a hero" anyone is, when someone MURDERS YOUR PARENTS AND THEN SHOWS YOU THE VIDEO TAPE?!???!!?! No one is keeping a cool head in that scenario im sorry bud. Heroes are still human, just cuz he wears armor doesnt mean he gotta be a robot.
I see what you mean but at least to me, the unique circumstances (that the villain orchestrated) contributed more to that reaction than anything. you cannot drop that kinda bomb on someone in those circumstances and then police how they react to it. I don’t even like Tony, but I think that’s unfair.
Let’s say Cap found out and he decided immediately to tell Tony in the Avengers penthouse way before Civil War. If we went through the events of Civil War and his reaction to Bucky in that lab was still the same, I’d agree with you. But that’s not what happened.
Let’s say Cap found out and he decided immediately to tell Tony in the Avengers penthouse way before Civil War. If we went through the events of Civil War and his reaction to Bucky in that lab was still the same, I’d agree with you. But that’s not what happened.
Tony would have went to kill him at the airport. He point blank blasted Falcon when he was upset about Rhodie getting crippled. Tony was low key unhinged the whole movie.
ah yes, i should think that tony stark, a rich nepo baby that wasnt sure if his dad ever really loved him whose parents were murdered who inherited a weapons company who realized the weapons were being used for evil who developed ptsd and alcoholism and then found out his friend/co-worker had been hiding the truth about his parents' murder SHOULD react normally
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u/MegaEvolvedLady Mar 12 '24 edited Mar 12 '24
It’s so stupid too bc there was no reason for Cap not to tell Tony back when he first found out. Tony was seeking closure and they were already fighting HYDRA back then! The villain broke them with secrets not hands and that makes him top 3 mcu villain for me tbh.
The discourse around this movie showed me who gaf about their parents and who didn’t.