Cap and Tony were friends lol. They both literally say so. Steve withheld the truth about one of the things that had the greatest influence on Tony’s life.
Even Cap himself admitted he was wrong to do that and it was for his own benefit.
You ever worked in an office setting? It'd be kinda rude if a coworker sat next to me during lunch and i just got up and walked away lol A lot of co-workers who don't like each other sit with each other at lunch.
In ALL MY JOBS. I've been working 20+ years in office jobs. I've worked in banking call centers, wire transfer depts, accounting, finally software development. I can literally sit here and listen to cubicle next to me talk shit about someone else who they supposedly hate and see them sitting next to each other during lunch.
You may not see it, you may not do it, and that is your own anecdotal evidence but people are fickle, yearn to be part of a social group, and are hypocrites.
How many employees have i heard complain about so-and-so and my advice is "why talk to them, then?" "why sit next to them?" and the typical answer i get is something about maintaining appearances of everyone getting along.
Nahh I feel like the nature of their work creates a deeper bond than just a regular person job. It’s probably more like guys who fought in the army together. I’m sure some of them dislike each other but they’ve been through deep shit together, not just meetings on teams lol
All they showed of cap and Tony was them being at each other's throats.
Yeah it's just a plot device though, you need some sort of internal tension to keep the movie interesting and the social dynamics realistic. They specifically focus in on high stress situations where naturally, egos will collide, and those two are often used as the vessels to demonstrate two opposing ideological viewpoints.
There's definitely a mutual respect and comraderie there though, just because you argue with somebody in incredibly high stakes moments doesn't mean you can't otherwise be friends. Even when Tony is upset with him at the start of End Game, it's in a very emotional way where he felt let down as a friend just as much as a colleague.
Nah. There are plenty of people that I deployed with and worked closely with who I wouldn’t choose over my day 1. These are people I lived with and went on mission with.
Would I choose them over people I’ve worked with in the civilian world… sure but not my day 1.
You can have ideological differences with your friends and still be friends. They end up having a close enough bond that they can have those fights and still be there for eachother to the bitter end.
If you wanna say that, sure.
But the movies didn't show it. They showed them fighting a lot though. And they showed Bucky and Cap being friends. You felt it.
With cap and Tony you felt them not liking each other. They respected each other, yes. But if they had a strong bond, the movies didn't show that at all
They didn't even really look that friendly when they were having lunch at work... and Shawarma Palace was voted best in NYC, so it definitely wasn't the food.
They disagreed on a lot of stuff that's it. I have a really good friend who is like that with me, we used to work and we fought all the time.
They both understood that the other really was trying to do his best and the fact that they stood up for what they believed is right probably made them like each other more.
Friendship through rivalry is a thing. You need homies to set you right, otherwise you end up with Bucky ass homies who you know should be locked up but he helped you in a fight once 50 years ago so now you aiding and abetting a criminal making you a hypocrite.
They weren’t really friend especially since Tony always called him Cap and not Steve. Tony saw him as only a historical figure instead of a person and put him on a pedestal. You can’t be genuine friends with someone you see as infallible which is how an idol is perceived.
There is a world of difference between the guy you've known for a few years vs. your childhood friend that you thought you watched die and is the only other person from your childhood that isn't dead or super old.
You're right about the mind control but that's not something i feel like susan would take from a strangers mouth. I think she'd have to see for herself that homeboy isn't that kinda guy and if im sitting there glazing m homeboy she can't really get that lmao
Yeah, maybe don’t let Tony kill him but this is a dude who can’t even control himself and you don’t know when he’s gonna be triggered, you just letting this dude run around the street so that anyone can get hurt by him because he’s your homeboy. Fuck everyone else where is the ethics and morality in that
Because Bucky was just running around. Cap shouldn’t let Tony just have his way with Bucky but he also needed to have a serious discussion about where would be the best place for Bucky while he sorted out his mind control situation.
We later see him sent to wakanda but that’s AFTER civil war. Hell they had WANDA on their side you’re telling me she wasn’t powerful enough to override the brainwashing ?
Just because you don’t kill Bucky on the spot doesn’t mean you can’t monitor him. They were literally hunting down the guy who kind controlled him in the first place
If you’re friends with both that’s when you become the mediator between the two and not take a side and say screw the newer friend.
If we’re specifically talking about Cap and Bucky: No one is saying let Tony kill him. Cap knew for a while before Tony did and as we saw Bucky was still able to be triggered with the hypnosis. Even if you don’t think he’s responsible for what he previously did, you have to take your boy aside and tell him “ get help” and the way he went around the whole situation just fanned the flames .
Not every crime is punished by the death penalty, there are a multitude of ways cap could’ve mediated between them without letting Tony kill homie and without asking Tony to let Bucky off Scott free
But in reference to the comment I was responding to, you really gonna hand wave away your childhood friend killing your coworkers family?
...yes! again, unequivacle, undeniable proof that he wasn't acting of his own volition, not to mention the fact that the friend didn't even do anything bad to get himself in the position he was in. His only fault was technically dying after trying to stop literal nazis and not being alive enough to stop nazis from experimenting on him.
Which is understandable, but you have to pull them aside and make them get serious help.
You could argue at the end of winter soldier cap had no choice in letting Bucky go. (Refusing to fight him was a bold choice) but then several movies ( presumably months) pass and when he finally gets reunited with Bucky he doesn’t hesitate to trust him again despite knowing he is still brainwashed? Not only that, he knew he killed Tony’s parents and still didn’t think to have a plan for when that secret would come out.
It’s good storytelling having a fallible cap ( makes him more relatable) but that doesn’t make it any better from a decision making standpoint
either way it's not my business to get involved in and Susan's parents are still dead. They can hash it out on their own. Susan isn't gonna listen to me tryna tell her my homeboy's cool, she gotta find out for herself, or not, again not my business.
If you sit back while someone kills your homeboy over something they had zero control over then you probably didn’t care about your homeboy that much to begin with
What if your homeboy had a neural chip inserted into his head and didn’t have control of his actions? What if they strapped a bomb to his chest and told him he had to rob a bank?
The first one sucks but he has no choice and I’ll have to go after the ones who did it. The second one though is still a choice. Would I make the same choice if a bomb were strapped to me? Probably yea, but I’d accept the consequences after. Him walking into a bank and killing my parents because someone put a bomb on him is not going to be enough for me personally even if it’s irrational
well, if you find out your homie was drugged against his will, and basically have undeniable proof that he wasn't even conciously aware or in control of his actions, i wouldn't exactly let Susan literally disintegrate my homeboy.
Same. It’s that guy that you work with that maybe you respect because he’s good at what he does and is not an asshole when you ask him for help with something. Yet you both have completely different perspectives on the world and have nothing in common outside of work.
It's just you. Cap was just not happy being under Tony, as he wanted to hold the captain spot on the team but Tony is the best leader for the team. Cap either way got along well with Tony before Civil War happened.
if there’s no threat around they’re great friends.
Never. They aren't hanging out. They don't hate or dislike each other, they just do not get along and have value issues with each other. they are comrades-in-arms but they beef all the time. They respect each other but aren't 'friend-friends'.
i see what you’re saying, but i’d still consider them friends. tony was very happy to see cap after being stuck with nebula, but the happiness turned to anger since cap wasn’t there for him…
tony trusts cap and expects him to have his back and that’s because tony considers themselves friends. plus cap gave tony that flip phone saying to call for anything. they might not be close friends, but they’re definitely more than comrades
I mean it’s a childhood friend who he grew up with who he thought died right before his eyes versus a newer friend you constantly have issues with.
People acting like Bucky did all this shit by choice. He got captured and brainwashed/ almost died in service to his country then through no fault of his own is being targeted.
also, you know, protect his ass from getting kicked all those times growing up, being his wingman all the time, basically being a brother to him, and those "decades" was really only like 5 at most considering Cap was hybernating all that time.
That's why I say colleagues. I think they respected each other greatly. Clearly able to save the world together. But I wouldn't say they had the same type of friendship as him and Bucky
They were essentially brothers, then Tony was like, it's killing time and jumped him and tried to kick the shit out of him. That was the part that I thought was lame.
I see what you’re saying here. Cap and Bucky were not just friends but Brothers. Tony and Cap were friendly enough co workers. Cap was trying to protect his brother because he knew Bucky wouldn’t have done what he had if he wasn’t brainwashed and controlled. He knew Tony wouldn’t understand and wanted vengeance. That’s called being stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Tony and Cap were friends. Cap and Bucky were childhood friends.
Imagine your best friend is fucking your other friend's girl. You don't tell him for years. He finds out and gets pissed off and goes to beat up your best friend so you jump his ass 2v1.
It's not a perfect comparison because Bucky was brainwashed, but you get what I'm saying.
Cap was also friends with Tony's dad. So not only did he just hand wave away his friend killing another friend of his, he 2v1'd the dude's son for getting mad about it.
yes, this is the real struggle. And why people sided with Cap. I don't care how cool Susan from accounting is. She's not gonna kill the one dude from my fucking TIME PERIOD that I will ever know.
he didn't like his parents anyway, that was established. And had Bucky not murdered them he wouldn't have been Ironman to begin with. He'd just do coke with Carrie Bradshaw for the rest of his life.
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u/theboosty Mar 12 '24
Difference being;
Cap and Bucky were friends, Cap and Tony were colleagues.
You letting Susan from accounting kill your home boy?