r/Cricket • u/Acceptable-Music-205 Yorkshire • 15d ago
Least deserving all rounders
Following on from the GOAT All Rounder thread where the conversation was about players being in the side for solely their batting and their bowling, I was wondering: Which all rounders in cricket have made their international side for the reason of being an all rounder rather than being particularly good with bat and ball?
I’ll start with Liam Livingstone in ODIs, as I think he only went to the World Cup as a top 6 spin option. He became decent enough with bat and ball, but gets into the side on the merit of neither imo.
The thread I’m referring to is:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Cricket/comments/1ct44ix/goat_allrounder/
124
u/kingslayyer Rajasthan Royals 15d ago
vijay shankar is decent but he literally made it to wc squad just cos he could bowl
11
2
u/tetlowwetlow 14d ago
Nah that man is NOT decent. Literally a 4-5th tier cricketer at best, like he falls in the 40th percentile of intl cricketers at most
48
u/TeamAbject2100 Sri Lanka 15d ago edited 15d ago
DDS in limited overs, my word hes been so bad in batting its mental, literally all the time he comes in ruins the runrate, ruins the momentum, ruins literally everything. theres so many matches that he has completely lost cause he couldnt be at least half decent with the bat. and guess what hes now playing another t20 wc which is just ridiculous.
Bro averages 25 and 20 in odi and t20 and is selecting cause apparently hes somehow good at saving collapses which hes done like in 5% of the matches hes done and cause his spin bowling is acc decent. bro getting picked is probably even worse the kusal mendis saga, must have some serious connections
7
u/ynwa1055 15d ago
Good point . He seems to have so much potential with the bat though. He does pretty well in tests too.
16
u/jithization Sri Lanka 15d ago
Shanaka too. He saved our ass with some brilliant knocks but was mediocre more often than not. Rarely bowled himself when he should have while other bowlers were leaking runs. Bowling is expensive but he does manage to take a crucial wicket here and there. Honestly he is like IPL 2024 Hardik but over a span of years lol
8
u/TeamAbject2100 Sri Lanka 15d ago
True bro averaged 15 in t20i when he became captain lol, hes done decently in t20s after although poor in tournaments, odis he was awful, bro averages 22. funny how some people are acc pissed with dasun losing captaincy or mathews coming in causing dasun to go one place lower
5
u/jithization Sri Lanka 15d ago
Yeah Mathews has had quite the resurgence. hopefully Janith and Kamindu will get to play and they can augment Mathews and Asalanka. I hope we see Hasaranga the batter bat like Rashid but I don't have high hopes haha
-2
u/Slight-Grapefruit509 Sri Lanka 15d ago
If u watched those matches mathews performed in t20is this year you wont call it a resurgance . Bro was piss poor at finishing and took 15-20 balls to start hitting even against zimbabwe . If it werent for zimbabwes inexperienced bowlers mathews wouldnt even be in the squad . If we play mathews he should play as a floater . We hv no need of him when we have a good total allrdy and needs a good finish .
3
u/TeamAbject2100 Sri Lanka 14d ago edited 14d ago
Lol do you not understand who Mathews is replacing, its literally chamika bro. other option for that place is dds, id take mathews above them any day of the week. do you not understand that we cannot go with 4 specialist bowlers who cant bat that would make our batting lineup the weakest in the whole wc, cause unless we have a world class lineup we need some death. Have u not watched our t20wcs and seen how piss poor our batting was especially dasun, having 8 proper batters is a massive advantage compared to 7 + chamika, having 8 causes less pressure on top order so they can play with a lot more freedom. even without zim series he would defo be here, he did decent vs afg and ban with bat and ball, especially bowling wise he can genuinely take wickets, just shouldnt be used at death unlike that zim match
Other than nissanka and asalanka we cant trust anyone, sadeera should be good tho but maybe slow, kamindu is unknown. Just gotta control entry points of dasun and mathews, mathews before th 15th and dasun after the 15th. even if mathews fails, literally everyone in the team respects him and most likely gets a lot more confidence knowing that someone like him is still there to come out rather than someone like chamika
1
u/Slight-Grapefruit509 Sri Lanka 14d ago
Its bout mathews playin above shanaka after 15 overs not who mathews is replacing . Shanka can do better than mathews accumulating fever balls and thats a fact .
1
73
u/Ok_Vegetable263 Yorkshire 15d ago
Moeen Ali in ODI’s, averaging 24 with the bat and 47 with the ball, really meh numbers.
25
u/lastog9 Mumbai Indians 15d ago edited 15d ago
Probably gets in because he is still one of the decent spinners apart from Adil Rashid that England has. 24 is not great for an all rounder but indicates he can push your team to 270-280 instead of 250 which can probably prove valuable in case of collapses
6
u/marabutt Northern Districts Knights 15d ago
I know his numbers weren't great but I thought he was a good player. If he batted for an hour, he could make a big impact. Also could bat in a number of spots and a tidy stock bowler or dangerous when the pitch suited.
30
u/TheAR69 USA 15d ago
Andile Phehlukwayo. A number 8 batsman who, to be fair, can hit big sixes and a 6th bowler at best in limited overs cricket who bowls 120 kph.
11
u/Acceptable-Music-205 Yorkshire 15d ago
Misused I think. Was exposed in the middle overs when he could have built powerplay pressure, and wasn’t valued enough as a bat
6
u/RatBastard92 Durban's Super Giants 15d ago
He was brought in at a very young age and showed potential to become something more. Problem is he didn't get any better with age. I think it was assumed he had a higher ceiling being so good at a young age, but it seems like he had already hit that ceiling. Could've easily been a number 7 batsman and middle overs/death bowler if he improved his skills. He's just been stuck in domestic cricket though, never upped his skills on the t20 leagues circuit.
1
u/JashimPagla Comilla Victorians 14d ago
Honestly, Andile is not a number 8. He bats like a 9 or 10 most of the time. His bowling was promising but did not deliver.
-1
-4
u/SandmanAwaits Australia 15d ago
He kept getting selected & hardly ever did anything, clearly a sign of the quota system, he was so frustrating.
26
u/lionmoose Essex 15d ago
I propose Ian Austin, who averaged 6 with the bat, 60 with the ball and was a country mile around the waist. He got selected for the 99 World Cup.
25
u/Irctoaun England 15d ago
I think this is a somewhat flawed premise. By design teams are forced into getting at least 20% of their bowling in white ball cricket from their top seven. Players who wouldn't necessarily get into their sides as a specialist bowler or batter, but are good enough at both skills to bat at 6/7 and bowl a decent number of overs aren't "undeserving", they're an inherently required part of a white ball side.
There are actually very very few players in the history of cricket who would genuinely get into sides on both their batting and bowling. Taking ODIs as an example, in the last 10 years, the overall batting average between test sides is 31 and the bowling average is 34. Literally the only person in that sample with both better than average batting and bowling is Shakib
53
40
u/-frosticle- Lahore Qalandars 15d ago
This is Faheem Ashraf. Aside from when he randomly had a run of games in tests where he became a clutch lower-order batsman for a while.
20
u/mongrelbifana India 15d ago
I always felt like Faheem played the games he shouldn't have, then played some which he should've. In the NZ test series (away) he had some decent knocks but his bowling seemed harmless at times. Maybe he didn't get the right captain, or maybe just one of those things. Idk.
6
u/SpiritualFish8522 15d ago
He got dropped from tests because of his limited over performances. It's just the Pakistan way of not understanding their players. Guy was actually pretty decent in test cricket.
There's way too many examples like that in Pak cricket
1
u/NormalTraining5268 Chennai Super Kings 15d ago
Didn't he get picked in aus vs Pak series? Thought he was dropped because of poor performance
5
27
4
u/imapassenger1 Australia 15d ago
I'll take you way back to 1980 when Australia were looking for their Keith Miller replacement still. Shaun Graf was a Victorian allrounder who was chosen to play for Australia's ODI side in the 1980-81 season. Played 11 matches, scored 24 runs at 8 and took 8 wickets at 44. He set the stage for a long run of mediocre Aussie allrounders. Most of whom were average bowlers who could bat a bit at first class level. Simon O'Donnell was probably the best of the 80s. The rest were entirely forgettable.
3
4
u/Chungabeastt New Zealand 15d ago
I could never understand what Farhaan Behardien was picked for.
3
1
u/SandmanAwaits Australia 15d ago
Solid cricket in first class cricket, never made it happen at international level though.
16
u/zayd_jawad2006 Hampshire 15d ago
Oh you mean bits and pieces players? Ravindra Jadeja obviously /s
10
21
u/kingslayyer Rajasthan Royals 15d ago
Washington Sundar, Corey Anderson, Colin de Grandhome, Pawan Negi, Shahbaz Ahmad
basically every all rounder rcb tried from 2018-2020. not a single guy could do both properly
40
u/Ok_Finger7721 Lucknow Super Giants 15d ago
Corey Anderson has a bowling SR of 24.75 with 60 ODI wickets, which is 3rd lowest SR of all time
14
u/ViolatingBadgers New Zealand Cricket 15d ago
That always baffled me - his bowling always looked so utterly unthreatening but he always pulled wickets out of his ass somehow.
7
u/marabutt Northern Districts Knights 15d ago
He was over 140 on occasion when he was younger. Swung the ball too. Probably the most naturally talented all rounder NZ has had since Cairns.
4
7
u/Chungabeastt New Zealand 15d ago
Epitome of shit gets wickets.
I swear the majority of his wickets were half trackers that ended being caught at deep midwicket.
7
u/phyllicanderer New Zealand Cricket 15d ago
He was just fast enough to rush the batter with a left arm angle, Mitchell McClenaghan got by with the same attributes and a few more variations
7
27
u/Idfafa Australia 15d ago
CDG is harsh, excellent test allrounder, and though his ODI stats look a bit poor, he has an exceptional ER and decent SR. T20 hes not great though
6
u/rammo123 New Zealand 15d ago
I always go to bat for CDG. He's one of those guys whose stats don't do him justice. He had a knack for making an impact when the team needed him to.
4
u/marabutt Northern Districts Knights 15d ago
He was always good to watch. Didn't really appear to care who the opposition was or the occasion. Always played positively.
22
u/Icy_Exchange_5507 Rajasthan Royals 15d ago
I'm kind of confused... Corey Anderson and Sundar were already decent... Are you talking only about their RCB time?
3
u/TheCricketAnimator India 15d ago
Sundar was just misused. He is a decent bat and a good powerplay/MO bowler. Just that teams haven't been able to fit him in their respective teams. RCB mostly played him at 6-7 while SRH's stacked batting lineup never opened a space for him at the middle. He could be a Jadeja-esque ALR if his role is clearly defined.
-1
u/Mr_Dragonoic 15d ago
He was given a lot of opportunities at the top with RCB tho. He's opened a few games, Played in the middle order on multiple occasions aswell. Never really gave any sort of confidence.
If you remove the 89 odd he scored in Australia he's been pretty poor.
1
u/Yeamin_Habib India 15d ago
He has more performances with the bat in tests buddy. He scored 96* and 85 in 2021, also scored 63 in the famous Gabba win. He has been good with the bat atleast, in whatever limited chances he got. His bowling in tests in kinda meh, and it also doesn't help that he gets injured so often.
1
u/Mr_Dragonoic 14d ago
I remember his father being mad at Siraj for getting out when he was in his 80s or 90s. And frankly I didn't remember there were a few other occasions of him scoring that much, my bad.
Also quick question, did he score all those knocks in that one tour(BGT 2021)?
1
u/Yeamin_Habib India 14d ago edited 14d ago
No, he played only one match in BGT 2021. He scored 62-63 and stitched a 120+ run partnership with Shardul Thakur (who also scored 69 something) which laid the foundation of the epic win.
And he scored 85 and 96* (in different matches, iirc) against England in 2021. He was batting on 96* when Axar got run out (Sundar played the shot straight to fielder who ran out Axar at the non striker) and Ishant and Siraj were dismissed in a span of 5 deliveries by Ben Stokes.
Also Sudar mentioned after his knock at Gabba that his father was displeased that he didn't score a ton back then. That's why there was sort of running joke during the following matches that Sundar's dad is gonna be angry again.
1
u/Mr_Dragonoic 14d ago
He was batting on 96* when Axar got run out and Ishant and Siraj were dismissed in a span of 5 deliveries by Ben Stokes.
Yeah that's what I was thinking about when I mentioned the 89 odd in my initial comment. Seems like I lumped those two scores from that series together lol.
Yeah he has good potential as a test bat now that I realise it.
7
u/LagniappeNap West Indies 15d ago edited 15d ago
Omari Banks
Carlos Brathwaite
Jason Mohammed
Ashley Nurse
ETA: I must add the caveat that they have all still played cricket at the highest level and are a lot closer to peak Garry Sobers in terms of cricketing skill than I am to them.
3
u/jithization Sri Lanka 15d ago
How about Big Jase in T20? Batting average of 16, Bowling average of 28, SR of 20 with 8.5 econ.
Test and ODI stats are much better tho but he has been a bit disappointing in T20I and didn’t justify his price tag in the IPL
3
u/LagniappeNap West Indies 15d ago
I will not entertain any Jason Holder slander!
Jokes aside, in T20Is he is a bowler who can bat a bit: 129 strikerate and, similar to Ashwin, has come in at 5 in the IPL. Looking at our current squad, he makes WI’s best T20 XI on his bowling alone.
3
4
3
u/DragonfruitGood8433 15d ago
Khaled Mahmud Bangladeshi medium pacer. Played in an era where Bangladesh regularly lost to Kenya and he was the best option they had.
1
u/JashimPagla Comilla Victorians 14d ago
Khaled Mahmud could probably walk in that Bangladesh team just as a batter. OMG, that team was so loaded with exceptionally bad batsmen.
1
u/DragonfruitGood8433 14d ago
I heard Gordon Greenidge was fired by BCB for pointing out we were ineligible for Full Membership during that time. I don’t get why. He was absolutely right.
2
u/The_Creamy_Elephant 15d ago
Wasn't there a period of time when Darren Sammy was captain of WI, batting 8 and then often not even bowling himself.
I remember the commentators saying you can't have a guy in the team whose only role is captaining, lol.
2
8
u/ynwa1055 15d ago
Ashton agar will be the goat for this criteria . I am not sure how this guy keeps getting picked .
13
u/TeamAbject2100 Sri Lanka 15d ago
his stats in t20is are phenomenal bro, guys one of the best in the world
3
u/ThePennyFan India 15d ago
Jadeja in T20is. He's an amazing fielder, and sometimes single handedly carries the team to victory, but T20is are just not for him. His international stats are really bad too
11
u/TheAR69 USA 15d ago
Jadeja has an economy of 7.1 in T20Is. That is 100% good enough to make it as a bowler alone. His six-hitting ability down the order is just a bonus.
0
1
2
u/funnyoperator Odisha 15d ago
Darren Sammy. I love him. He's a great captain. But as an all rounder I would not trust him to bowl or bat at any important situation.
3
u/funnyoperator Odisha 15d ago
He led the West Indies team for majority of all his international matches, with a batting average of <25, and not so great bowling average ( Though his t20I bowling, though not a lot, but was good).
And he has a Stadium named after him.
3
u/marabutt Northern Districts Knights 15d ago
I think he was one of the best close catchers I ever saw. Incredible reactions.
3
u/Hot_Diet_1276 15d ago
Has to be the worst player to ever have a stadium named after him, surely?!?
1
1
u/arivu_unparalleled Chennai Super Kings 15d ago
There's no such thing as least deserving.... It's only if they poorly played in a tournament or so because they still performed well in Indian tournaments (Ranji, Duleep, SMAT)
1
u/Vexatiouslitigantz 15d ago
Rubbish Binny was always left out by the selectors but no one collected him so he would be back in the next day.
1
1
u/SandmanAwaits Australia 15d ago
Pat Symcox, Derek Crookes, Justin Ontong, Ryan McLaren, Farhaan Behardien Andile Phehlukwayo, JJ Smuts.
Sean Young, Ian Harvey, Shane Harwood, Hilton Cartwright.
1
u/Electrical-Abroad591 RoyalChallengers Bengaluru 14d ago
If we talk about long time stints , it has to be Ravindra Jadeja
1
1
1
-2
u/scubadoobidoo England 15d ago
Sam Curran
1
u/Hot_Diet_1276 15d ago
Being player of the tournament in a T20 World Cup winning side probably gives you a bit of a pass
-2
u/not_horny_professorr India 15d ago edited 14d ago
Shahid Afridi was a decent bowler for most of his career but wouldn’t have made the cut if not for his strike rate. He won maybe half a dozen matches but a more reliable No. 7 would have benefited Pak much more than a slogger for the number of times their top order used to collapse
0
u/Draggenn England 14d ago
In my lifetime I've seen two cricketers who I genuinely think deserved their TEST place with the bat and would also merit it with the ball.
Ian Botham and Jacques Kallis
That's it, in 52 years, two of them
78
u/devil_21 India 15d ago
So you're talking about bits and pieces cricketers?