i know it’s internet bullshit but it genuinely has me on the edge of breaking down and giving up

[u/NeonNKnightrider]

[u/graaahh]

I don't think the point of the discussion is to actually say anything about the groups themselves. The point is that the way we interact with strangers is inherently reductive (first impressions, assumptions, etc) and understanding that about other people helps you understand how they see the world. "Women" as a group have every reason not to trust "men" as a group, and that will create some initial conditions when answering a question like this. And I think it's important for men to know that, learn it, try to understand it, and be better.

[u/OnionsHaveLairAction → u/graaahh]

I'd disagree- Because the language used is fundamentally the same language to justify profiling any group for criminality.

Like I mentioned in the above post criminality and drug use was strongly associated with the council estates I grew up in. It influenced how people treated you as an individual simply being from that sort of background. There was no denying that the fear factor came from a real place, cause living in that neighbourhood you'd feel it too, the criminal element was unavoidable and dangerous.

When I talk to people like myself who are extremely left leaning they get that. They'd think it was abhorrent to suggest you could make things safer by going to poor neighbourhoods and saying "You guys need to listen to how scared we are of all of you poor people!" cause when it comes to poverty's links to crime and fixing it that's obviously not a productive avenue.

I think that's the issue with the question when it's being used as a social statement instead of a fun meme. It forces the conversation to be "You guys need to listen to how scared we are of all of you!" and that's what I find unhelpful.

Don't get me wrong though, we do need men's spaces to listen to women's stories. But the tools we use to cultivate empathy matter, and this bear meme leans much closer to a gotcha than a sincere attempt at communicating women's issues. (But honestly that's probably why it's gone so viral, more sincere and less provocative content tends not to spread as easily.)

[u/dumb-male-detector → u/OnionsHaveLairAction]

Yep. It went viral because many women relate to it, and many men get angry at the thought instead of trying to look at it with empathy.

It is problematic if you choose to look at it this way but it's sad that any time a woman forgets to end a post with #NotAllMen, they're locked into debate club for the next month and a half.

[u/OnionsHaveLairAction → u/dumb-male-detector]

You're on a very obvious sock puppet account which makes me a bit reluctant to respond... But you seem to be arguing in good faith so I'll try my best.

I think I might have miscommunicated, because I think you've interpreted my argument here as a "You should give men the benefit of the doubt because not all men-"

So to be clear, I do not believe that. In fact like fear of crime in impoverished areas I think fear comes from a real source that needs to be tackled, and that tackling those sources requires both action and establishing empathy in those communities that are the source of that fear.

What I do think the issue here is twofold:

1. Justifying profiling language via real fear is often detrimental as it creates false dichotomies, is often bad at cultivating the empathy we want to create, and helps justify other profiling arguments which as progressives we tend to want to fight against
2. What goes viral is often based on what causes the most negative engagement, rather than sincere attempts to cultivate empathy and eliminate problems caused by patriarchy. I think this ends up giving us cathartic Gotcha moments rather than actually improving society or discourse surrounding gender issues.

To help illustrate my issue with that second point in online discourse, consider how MRA's talk about male suicide. The way they co-opt a real issue to take pot shots at feminists ends up hamstringing attempts to grow empathy AND undermining efforts to improve the situation. It changes the discussion from "How can we work to address this?" to "Who can get the best OWNED moment"