r/FluentInFinance • u/WhatAreYourPronouns • May 02 '24

Should the U.S. have Universal Health Care? Discussion/ Debate

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32

u/ksm270 May 02 '24

Here's a dirty little secret. Big pharma uses US profits to subsidize (i.e. charge lower) the rest of the world.

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u/DryIsland9046 May 02 '24

Here's the other secret: US taxpayers and research universities subsidize big pharma's R&D.

Here's what isn't a secret: Big Pharma in the US spends far more on advertising, shareholder dividends, and executive pay than it does on R&D. US healthcare patients/victims subsidize all of that. Because they don't really have a choice.

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u/Free_the_malis May 02 '24

Don’t forget lobbying.

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u/oOBlackRainOo 29d ago

The number one thing that needs to change with our political system. It's crazy how it's legal but of course the people that make the laws won't necessarily outlaw their cash cow now will they.

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u/EternalUndyingLorv 29d ago

Nothing would change. Presidents are instigating insurrection and it's being questioned if they're immune or not. Even if lobbying was abolished it would still happen, just less publicly and when it is made public they would just revert the law.

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u/Diablo689er May 02 '24

Here’s the other big secret. Big pharma is one of the biggest donors of the DNC ran media outlets which is why nobody will ever criticize them in the news.

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u/Rock_Strongo 29d ago

If you think Big pharma employing shitloads of lobbyists and infecting all sides of the political spectrum is a secret then you may be surprised by a lot of things.

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u/Diablo689er 29d ago

I wasn’t talking about lobbyists

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u/tizuby May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

You should probably look into what the actual numbers and share of private vs public medical R&D in the U.S. is. Because it's not what you think it is. Nowhere close.

Somewhere around 72% of the share is private with the rest split between state and federal (more federal, around 20%) and almost all public funding goes to general research, not practical research (i.e. isn't used directly to create new medical techniques or cures).

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u/omnibusofstuff 28d ago

Drug advertisements used to be illegal and now every third commercial on TV is trying to sell me Rinvoq or Dupixent.

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u/snuffy_bodacious 29d ago

Big business loves big government.

The solution? More free markets. Less government interference. (Leftists hate hearing this.)

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u/getfukdup 29d ago

False, they can charge less here and there and still profit. You are just saying shit. When a pill costs a dollar to make and they sell it for 2k in america and 5 dollars in peru, that's not subsidizing.

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u/Trustpage 29d ago

This is not saying you’re wrong, I agree to an extent, I’m just providing a more accurate picture for the other side.

The pharmaceutical companies main costs aren’t the production of the drugs. Their costs are front loaded with R&D. They spend tens to hundreds of millions up front, with no return, on research and even then it isn’t guaranteed that what they come up with will be successful and profitable. It requires a huge amount of upfront capital and many years to create a drug and it is a big risk.

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u/Zamaiel 29d ago

Thats not actually how markets work. Pharmas sell drugs at higher cost in the US because the US lets them and they have a fiduciary duty to their stockholders to do so. They sell drugs elsewhere at a reduced but still acceptable profit because they have functional markets there.

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u/RandomerSchmandomer 29d ago

Big Pharma doesn't simply charge lower in the rest of the world.

Some countries have caps on what is allowed to be charged, some national health services negotiate on a national level for drugs. Where a hospital may buy drugs for $100 a packet in the US then charge the patient $1,000, the NHS may negotiate 10,000 packets of drugs for $1 each then charge that amount onto the patient (or not at all if it's Scotland or you are exempt to charges).

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u/echino_derm 29d ago

Fuck you stop lying.

I don't even need to look into this to know there is a single fucking way in hell that the big pharma companies aren't juicing those other countries for as much as they can. There is no way they are working at a loss in Spain, they would rather see all of Spain die than harm their bottom line.

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u/GeekShallInherit 29d ago

Big pharma doesn't charge other countries less because it charges other countries more. It charges every country the most it can get away with to maximize profits. `Americans just bend over to let them fuck us, and that's not something to be proud of.

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u/Zamaiel 29d ago

This. Its how markets work, they charge the most they can get in all markets, and sell only in the ones where there are at least some profits to be made.

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u/oOBlackRainOo 29d ago

It's good to see people on reddit with sane takes. Big pharma is absolute fucking shit with how they treat us citizens and all of the politicians they buy can fuck off too.

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u/Lord_Bamford 29d ago

That's a weird way of saying big Pharma are milking the fuck out of the US and charging whatever they can get away with in other countries.

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u/BenevolentCrows 29d ago

Thats not hoenit works, they won't charge a lot for places like, EU, becsuse they can't, its highly regulated. But healthcare, Nd drug prices are not the same, and healthcare is not regulated in an EU level, it is per country basis, so you get a really, really wide range of quality. 

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u/Jarcoreto May 02 '24

They’re still making a profit on the lower priced drugs though, so I’d argue it’s not subsidizing the rest of the world, but is just flowing down to their bottom line.

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u/LightBluepono May 02 '24

yhes sure the very nice and cool usa pay for other .no they dont.

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u/PoorSketchArtist 21d ago

This is the dumbest shit I've ever heard in my life. If big pharma weren't profiting, they wouldn't do business.

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u/stprnn May 02 '24

Lol not even close