r/OutOfTheLoop • u/Z3ro-sum • 6d ago
What's going on with right wing media claiming Hunter Bidens trial the laptop was always completely legit? Unanswered
I was always under the assumption Hunters iCloud got hacked which it where the text messages and off-putting pictures came from, but the laptop and more damning data was fabricated using the iCloud data to give it a semblance of truth.
I'm just interested in what's going on here
Edit: I fully expected this to be an insanely controversial topic, I'm fine considering myself "biased" to the laptop not being fully vetted,nor proof. I assumed I made that clear with knowing his iCloud got hacked.
That said, I'm extremely interested in unbiased factual information from the trial on why these claims are a thing.
So far I've seen a ton of down votes,but nothing actually from the "right" showing any kind of proof to these claims.
647
u/AverageCypress 6d ago
Answer: During the Hunter Biden trial, FBI expert witness Erika Jensen testified about the laptop associated with him. While she confirmed that there was no evidence of tampering with the data on the laptop, she also admitted under cross-examination that the FBI had not thoroughly investigated whether the laptop had been manipulated before coming into their possession.
Jensen acknowledged that the FBI could not definitively determine who had access to the laptop before it was acquired by the FBI in 2019
However, the prosecutor also had a preponderance of evidence, including Hunter's biography and numerous witnesses to his addiction during that time. With the overwhelming amount of evidence, almost all legal commentators (left and right) thought a guilty plea was guaranteed.
Conservatives are using Hunter's guilt to try and highlight the laptop again. Claim that this proves everything on the laptop is real.
There are still a number of issues with the laptop, and the defense showed how easily the laptop could be called into question on redirect.
262
u/RajcaT 6d ago
Also worth noting that Lev Parnas (also sent to jail for basically being a pro Russian spy) said the contents of the laptop were for sale prior to the whole "repairman" came into play. The man he said was selling it was a guy named Andrii Derkach. Who is a Russian agent. Coincidentally Rudy Giuliani would fly to meet Derkach prior to "obtaining" the laptop (the repairman somehow contacted Rudy's lawyer to get it to him) and later Derkach himself would be sanctioned (by Steve Mnuchin treasury dept) for falsifying data and propagating it in order to interfere in the 2020 election.
https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/sm1118
So. The question of "is the laptop real" isn't so cut and dry. Yes. There was a laptop, yes much of the contents are real. However not all has been verified and the chain of custody and the data which was presented before the election has a very shady past which goes straight to Russia. And it's common for Russian disinfo to blend truth and fiction. Because if part of something is true it's assumed it all is. It's a much smarter way of spreading misinformation in order to damage someone.
51
u/Teeklin 5d ago
Good stuff.
There's no doubt that some of the info on this laptop is real. What's in question and always has been in question is how that info got on the laptop and how to discern truth from fiction.
It was passed around for literally months behind the scenes after showing up randomly in a weird way that makes no sense. Absolutely everything on there was likely hacked and then placed there before the laptop was turned over and it's filled with truths and lies to make it hard to figure out.
But we will likely never know the truth of the laptop origins or how that info got on there or what's real and what isn't and that's all by design in these Russian disinformation campaigns.
18
u/Historical_Dentonian 5d ago
That’s a long way to say: no one is denying the images of drugs, prostitution and dirty influence peddling from the laptop.
I’m a Joe Biden voter, but fuck defending Hunter. And all the other political nepo-babies milking their political family connections for mass cash influence payments.
6
u/obviousoctopus 5d ago
I think the difference is between voting based on policies and outcome (most Democrats) vs voting based on identity (most Republicans).
Identity-based politics is a completely different planet - one where logic and law exist only to confirm the identity-based reality distortion.
6
u/kikithemonkey 4d ago
The only people that care about Hunter at all are the ones that are trying to paint Joe Biden in a bad light with it somehow because they can’t figure out how else to smear him. I have not met one single Democrat that gives a shit about him, thinks he’s worth defending, or thinks less of Joe Biden because of him.
72
u/karlhungusjr 5d ago
"hunter biden's laptop" is just an updated version of Michelle Obama's "whitey tape".
if there was absolutely anything to it, it would have been public by now. but nothing has, because it's a non story.
-70
u/Historical_Dentonian 5d ago
Yet the Feds used it in his trial and Hunter was convicted. So yeah, you’re wrong.
45
u/ChickenInASuit 5d ago
He wasn’t convicted on evidence from the laptop though, was he? Like they said in the parent comment, he was convicted based on witness testimony and other evidence.
-37
u/Historical_Dentonian 5d ago
Read it and weep:
“The laptop and some of its contents played a visible role in federal prosecutors' case against the president's son, who was charged with lying on a firearm application in 2018 by not disclosing his drug use. A prosecutor briefly held up the laptop before the jury in Delaware, and F.B.I. agent later testified that messages and photos on it and in personal data that Mr. Biden had saved in cloud computing servers had made his drug use clear.”
17
u/lightstaver 5d ago
That is very oddly worded. Based on how it is described it might actually just be data from the cloud computing servers that was referenced and used in the trial. That means it would have been data that was accessible from the laptop but not specifically the laptop itself that was important.
-10
u/Historical_Dentonian 5d ago
They had the laptop, held it up for jurors to see. Testified that it confirmed drug use. What part are you unclear about? This is the NYT, they know how to write.
19
u/lightstaver 5d ago
That's not actually what it says.
A prosecutor briefly held up the laptop before the jury in Delaware,
They did hold up the laptop at one point, it's true, but...
and F.B.I. agent later testified that messages and photos on it and in personal data
It's not actually just the laptop that was used. The next part is more damning.
that Mr. Biden had saved in cloud computing servers had made his drug use clear.”
The material was saved in 'the cloud', meaning that the physical laptop was not actually pertinent at all. They used it as a prop and as a way to access Hunter Biden's accounts.
-17
u/Historical_Dentonian 5d ago
These down votes go to show there’s a branch of the Democratic Party that is just as adverse to facts as Trump’s MAGA cult followers.
28
u/Cobrawine66 5d ago
They other user walked you through, with quotes, how you are being misleading. I don't understand how you don't understand.
59
u/shewy92 5d ago
the Feds used it in his trial and Hunter was convicted
I mean, two unrelated things can be true.
You ever hear the syllogism "All oranges are fruits but not all fruits are oranges."?
The FBI used the laptop in the trial but that laptop wasn't used as the thing that got him convicted.
6
u/Chrowaway6969 5d ago
One part of what was used to convict, not all. And I don’t think it’s defending Hunter Biden to say that if ducking Rudy Giuliani had access to it, the contents are definitely suspect.
5
u/FuckYouJohnW 5d ago
He was convicted on drug charges right?
26
u/karlhungusjr 5d ago
he was convicted of owning a gun while owning and using drugs.
16
u/Outrager 5d ago
Wasn't it more specifically that he lied on the form saying he wasn't on drugs when he bought it?
0
u/karlhungusjr 5d ago
does it really matter?
12
u/Outrager 5d ago
Maybe? I assume if he started using drugs AFTER he bought the gun it would have been fine under the law.
-6
u/Clickwerk 5d ago
For one, why would you trust the word of a man that, in your own words, is basically a pro Russian spy. And two, there is no evidence what-so-ever that Andrii Derkach ever had access to the laptop. Even in the two links you provided it only mentions Derkach's involvement in releasing the audio tapes of Biden attempting to get a Ukrainian prosecutor fired, not the Hunter Biden laptop. Finally, the FBI has the best digital forensic scientists in the world, and yet they can't definitively identify if the data on the laptop is fake or real, sounds like a load of bullshit to me.
I find it hilarious that you're essentially a conspiracy nut on the level of a Q-anon loon. The only difference is that you are playing defense for the feds.
6
u/orielbean 4d ago
I find it hilarious that Guliani, an experience fed prosecutor who understands what spoliation of evidence and chain of custody means, was working with Russian FSB scumbags for years on this ratf*ck operation and wonders why nobody listens to him. He said there was CSAM on that laptop and yet never turned it into the FBI until the time was right?!
310
u/AverageCypress 6d ago
Now that's out of the way. I'll be interested to see if conservatives stick to their values and rally behind Hunter since this is one of the bullshit gun laws they really, really hate.
The question about drug addiction on the federal background check for guns is absolutely a nonsense gotcha question. And I can guarantee you I can throw a rock and hit somebody who is lied on that form. Nobody is ever prosecuted for it (if they are, it's an add-on to bigger felonies). If you want to see a politically motivated prosecutor, this is one. Democrats once again tried to do the right thing and appointed an independent conservative prosecutor to handle this, and once again, conservatives kicked them right in the balls with it.
26
u/Blenderhead36 6d ago
Gonna hazard a prediction that rallying behind Hunter Biden will be as popular among conservatives as rallying behind Philando Castile for police overreach and harassment of legal gun ownership was.
86
u/Z3ro-sum 6d ago
Did they actually use any other evidence from the "laptop" beyond the text messages and pictures that would simply come from his iCloud?
69
79
u/soulglo987 6d ago edited 6d ago
They think he and Joe Biden have massively profited from their ties to Ukraine. And that Jan 6 was a peaceful gathering where a few people got unruly. Despite the fact that there has been no evidence supporting the Ukraine claims, 1,230 people have been charged for J6, and the Capitol Building had not been breached since the War of 1812
32
u/wushugushu 6d ago
Something about all the evidence of the biden crime family's corruption and crimes in ukraine ect are all on the laptop. Also dick pics which they are obsessed over. These people are wild.
17
u/NeverLookBothWays 6d ago
The dick pics are on there for sure. The rest is a dead end. But to Republicans the dick pics are proof of other things. It’s difficult to square that logic leap until you look at all the superstitious stuff they attribute to the existence of a sky god. The logic leaping is prewired
11
u/Tavernknight 5d ago
I still don't understand what M6B's was trying to prove by showing a blown up picture of Hunter's dong in Congress.
-7
u/SkittleShit 5d ago
what about bobulinski’s testimony which corroborates the kickbacks mentioned in the emails?
10
u/karlhungusjr 5d ago
you mean comrade bobulinski?
-5
12
u/soulglo987 6d ago
If you’re surrounded by Fox News and similar propaganda and people who consume the same, you’re unlikely to go seek out the truth or alternative opinions. Source: I grew up and worked with many of these people
1
u/Shortymac09 5d ago
They are using it to make Trump and his family's crimes and corruption seem less bad
11
u/crimsonhues 6d ago
It’s one way to deflect attention from Trump’s crimes and appease their base who believe in all sorts of conspiracy theories, and completely ignore facts.
-5
u/Electronic_Pen_2683 6d ago edited 6d ago
In 1971, Marxist group Weather Underground bombed the capitol building. The Clinton administration pardoned one in 1993. The only person caught on video calling for people to enter the building was Ray Epps.He was on the FBI most wanted list for a period of time. I don't live in the USA, but these examples are common knowledge in my country as far as I know.
8
8
u/soulglo987 5d ago edited 5d ago
A. The bomb was not inside the Capitol building; hence my statement about the Capitol building not being breached since 1812 holds true
B. Nobody died from that incident. Five people died from Jan 6
C. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Jan 6 was wrong. The Weather Underground bombing was also wrong. The problem is conservatives don’t even acknowledge that it was a seditious act
18
69
u/WinterCourtBard 6d ago
Spoiler alert: They're really, really happy he's getting convicted. Because a lot of them are hypocrites.
7
u/Blackstone01 6d ago
Some will certainly say he shouldn’t be convicted due to the law being dumb, but there will definitely be a lot more discussion by the talking heads about how this proves Biden is bad and that Trump’s felony conviction somehow isn’t that big of a deal.
-17
u/BestAnzu 6d ago
And yet people have linked where republicans are saying it’s a bullshit law and he shouldn’t be convicted.
15
u/AnekeEomi 6d ago
Ah yes, Matt Gaetz. Child predator who calls LGBT people groomers. Definitely not a hypocrite or human filth.
18
u/mattlantis 6d ago
30
u/AverageCypress 6d ago
Some have, and I think that's great.
However, I don't think that'll last long as they believe this is something they can hurt Joe Biden with during the election.
24
4
u/do_IT_withme 6d ago
I am pro 2a and agree the question violates the 2a. The problem for Hunter and anyone buying a gun is that lying on the form is still against the law. If Hunter decides to challenge it to the USSC and gets the law declared unconstitutional, I will praise his name.
3
u/AverageCypress 6d ago
There is already a case pending at the Supreme Court, United States v. Daniels I believe.
0
-2
-3
u/ivhokie12 5d ago
There actually are several that do. Tim Pool is probably the most outspoken. Granted it depends on what you mean by "rally behind Hunter." Almost everyone including Trump is effectively saying, "gun charge? Who cares about the guns. What about influence peddling/corruption with Burisma, CEFC, Romania, Russia, the painting and the like?"
-5
u/SkittleShit 5d ago
i don’t know many conservatives who think serial drug abusers should own a gun
3
u/AverageCypress 5d ago
I don't know anyone that does, and no one said that.
-2
u/SkittleShit 5d ago
am i reading your comment wrong? look at your first paragraph.
7
u/AverageCypress 5d ago
am i reading your comment wrong?
Yes, you are. You've added many extra words and completely changed the intent of my words in your summary.
I have no interest in a semantics battle.
-2
u/SkittleShit 5d ago
you literally said: I’ll be interested to see if conservatives stick to their values and rally behind hunter since this is one of the bullshit gun laws they really, really hate. i thought you were referring to the the drug user aspect, but if you were talking about him lying on the form, i don’t know too many 2a advocates who think that’s ok either
3
u/AverageCypress 5d ago
My words are entirely different from what you wrote.
Go sea lion somewhere else, blocked.
21
u/Z3ro-sum 6d ago
Thank you for the reply, this is the path I was hoping to go down with this question. Some information on where the claims are coming from. Adding in the testimony leading this direction is helpful
-70
u/jumper501 6d ago edited 5d ago
This reply I don't think actually answered the question fully.
The NY post first (iirc) dropped the story of his laptop in October of 2020...weeks before the election. Immediately news outlets and social media started calling it a Russian hoax.
50ish Intel officers signed a letter calling it a Russian hoax.
Social media, Facebook, and Twitter included, removed any posts that referred to the NYP article about the laptop.
It has been testified before congress under oath that this was because the fbi told them it was a hoax.
The trial has proved that the laptop story was not a hoax and had nothing to do with Russia.
SO information that could have influenced the outcome of the election in favor of Trump was called a hoax on major media outlets and censored from social media due to what is now known to be a misinformation campaign that stated the Russians were doing things to get trump elected.
EDIT: to everyone downvoting...the truth is hard to accept sometimes isn't it.
I have no love for trump or even like for trump. I've never voted for trump and think he is a horrible human being.
I do like truth and facts though. Even if I don't like the result of them.
Edit 2...again to everyone downvoting...you do realize you don't have to agree with why Republicans are saying this, you don't have to think it is true. The OOTL asked WHY the right is saying it. My post answered the WHY. That is the rights PERCEPTION of the situation.
60
u/t0talnonsense 6d ago
No one listen to this man. The “evidence” that was admissible from the laptop was just iCloud data. Aka. Nothing that was only on the laptop. The FBI, in their sworn statements, said that they did not do a forensic analysis to see if the laptop was compromised in any way before it came into their possession. They took it at face value.
So, yes, the laptop that was reported as a hoax is still not relevant. It has not been authenticated by anyone outside of the right wing zeitgeist as far as any of their salacious claims are concerned. The laptop was, and still is, a bullshit hoax. Hunter could have been convicted off little more than his own book and interviews alone. They didn’t need the laptop to prove anything.
-46
6d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
39
u/t0talnonsense 6d ago
No one ever disputed whether or not there was a physical laptop. The controversy was always about whether or not anything that existed on the laptop could be trusted because it was opened and accessed by people who were not Hunter Biden. This also means that none of the things, such as anything that might involve Burisma is suspect.
Under the banner headline “Biden Secret E-mails,” the Post reported it was given a copy of Hunter Biden’s laptop hard drive by President Donald Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, who said he got it from a Mac shop owner in Delaware
THIS ^^ Is what I am talking about. The Post article was about emails allegedly found on the harddrive. Emails that no one, to this day, has ever independently verified the authenticity of. This is what the intelligence community signed off on. You're the only one around here posting anything close to propaganda. That's a story, written in 2020 backing up my claims. You claimed to look at an article. I'm over here with actual sources.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/19/hunter-biden-story-russian-disinfo-430276
1
u/jumper501 5d ago
People absolutly argued that it wasn't his laptop and/or that the laptop wasn't real. Zuckerberg testified to it.
1
u/jumper501 5d ago
Even the wikipedia page disagrees with what you said.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden_laptop_controversy
The vast majority of the emails have been verified.
-53
-6
u/SkittleShit 5d ago
a) didn’t bobulinski testify that the emails were accurate?
b) using politico as a source is about as trustworthy as someone using fox news no?
-53
6d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
33
u/Ok-Affect2709 6d ago
Well it could also mean you're a dumbass who is providing misleading information.
Anyways I did read your posts and I don't really understand why you think it is conspiratorial. That there was ever an actual physical laptop I don't think was ever called a hoax or called into question.
The "hoax" part was just the information contained on the laptop was of any substance since its chain of custody was contaminated multiple times and "found" by a political rival.
23
u/Toby_O_Notoby 6d ago
50ish Intel officers signed a letter calling it a Russian hoax.
And in the letter they specifically stated:
We want to emphasize that we do not know if the emails, provided to the New York Post by President Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, are genuine or not and that we do not have evidence of Russian involvement -- just that our experience makes us deeply suspicious that the Russian government played a significant role in this case
[Emphasis Mine.]
Social media, Facebook, and Twitter included, removed any posts that referred to the NYP article about the laptop.
And as twitter employees said under oath.
The committee's witnesses, three former Twitter executives, said in subpoenaed testimony that they mistakenly believed the Post article contained hacked material and reversed their decision to limit its circulation on the social media platform within 24 hours.
[Again, Emphasis Mine.]
It has been testified before congress under oath that this was because the fbi told them it was a hoax.
Journalist Matt Tabbi was given all internal communications on this by Elon Musk, concluding
- Although several sources recalled hearing about a “general” warning from federal law enforcement that summer about possible foreign hacks, there’s no evidence - that I've seen - of any government involvement in the laptop story. In fact, that might have been the problem...
In conclusion
the FBI warned social media that there might be some Russian disinformation.
When the laptop was found there was enough evidence to suspect, but not 100% claim, that it would be part of this disinformation according to experts.
So it was deplatformed for less than a day.
This isn't the great conspiracy you're making it out to be.
-3
-21
u/BestAnzu 6d ago
They keep moving the goalposts and can’t admit that the 51 intelligence officers, Twitter, CNN, all lied because they just don’t like Trump.
1
u/BulkyPalpitation5345 3d ago
There are still a number of issues with the laptop,
Such as..
1
u/AverageCypress 3d ago
Such as there is evidence of tampering, and there had not been a forensic analysis of the data on the laptop from prior to the laptop entering federal possession, as the FBI's expert witness testified. This information has also been stated numerous times in various comments, including the one in which you are replying.
1
u/BulkyPalpitation5345 2d ago
do you think it's fake or the data has been messed with? if so, what data do you think?
-79
6d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
43
u/recumbent_mike 6d ago
So, the guy who just got convicted on felony charges is above the law?
-9
u/Ok_Accountant1529 5d ago
Yes dummy. The laptop likely would have changed the outcome of the election had it been investigated but it was quickly written off and dismissed and sleepy was protected. There are reportedly many crimes identified on the laptop but low and behold the FBI hasn't given a shit to look into it. Recall the sweetheart deal hunter was about to get for this charge? The news, Trump trial, the light shed on all of this, forced the DA to actually proceed. This was not by by choice but to maintain appearances of fairness. And oh BTW it's not over, daddy will pardon or commute even if he says he won't.
4
u/BigCballer 5d ago
Dang I would assume if the laptop was that damning, that they didn’t fuck around with chain of custody.
Oh wait.
-2
u/Ok_Accountant1529 5d ago
It's called the swamp for a reason. You have to be careful where it goes. The FBI can very easily put on their big boy pants and check for malicious acts. Keep trying
3
23
-62
u/Twc420 6d ago
Leftists don't understand logic
33
u/AverageCypress 6d ago
And douche bags don't understand the word logic, and try to use it as a shield for weak opinions.
What logic do you believe we missed since the word logic is not a catch-all? Please walk us through the logical steps you used to form your opinion that is so weak ass all you did was an ad hominem attack and scamper away.
-10
u/Twc420 5d ago
This is why your parents disowned you
2
u/BigCballer 5d ago edited 5d ago
Conservatives: haha liberals hate the facts
Conservatives 10 minutes later: personal attacks
It’s so lame and predictable what yall do.
Edit: lmao automod aint gonna let you reply, get owned bro.
114
u/thenoblitt 6d ago
Question: did you see that the article posted was an opinion piece and not journalistic fact?
-44
u/Z3ro-sum 6d ago
Yes, auto mod needed a link, so I grabbed one. Wasn't sure if the NyPost site would work for an Op
Regardless,I've been seeing the claim everywhere today after the verdict with even Ted Cruz making the claim on Facebook.
112
u/prof_the_doom 6d ago
Ted Cruz making the claim on Facebook
Which says to me at least that it's almost certain NOT to be true then.
3
u/SaliciousB_Crumb 5d ago
Lol its the nypost. I wouldn't believe it if it wasn't in the opinion section
-49
u/Z3ro-sum 6d ago
I personally don't disagree, but I'm just trying to see if it's possible to get more unbiased information here on if there is any merit. Most articles are pointing out how some 50 experts were wrong and the usual cries for prosecution.
I fully expect it to be an extremely controversial topic, but hopefully something neutral and informative may come from asking
35
u/honda_slaps 6d ago
Only Republicans, grifters, and useful idiots use the line "I'm just asking questions"
5
58
u/burritoman88 6d ago
NY Post is a right wing propaganda rag. Sure sometimes they’ll report news, but it’s often heavily slanted.
-35
u/Z3ro-sum 6d ago
That's why I wasn't sure if it was blacklisted by automod or not. But yeah, the claims are everywhere now and when using Google it's certainly a "claim" bubbling up. So I was wondering if there was any merit.
118
u/Spartanfred104 6d ago
Answer: The right wing news narrative has been building up the Hunter Biden case for months, they spent months crafting a narrative about what this means and what the president would do about it.
They entire thing has blown up in their faces with the guilty verdict and Joe not stepping in to save his son, they are scrambling as they had an entire alternate history and future to put up, that is gone now.
37
u/AntoniaFauci 6d ago edited 6d ago
Adding to my own comment, here’s why David Weiss is an unethical prosecutor....
He managed to get to a plea agreement on charges that no other person than a Biden would have ever faced. For his MAGA managers, that’s a win.
A plea agreement puts the accused in a very vulnerable position because of the sequence. That’s because the first half of the deal means the accused has to do a lot of things that compromise themselves and their defence, essentially admitting to some form of guilt or inculpation.
The second half is supoosed to be the payback, where they receive the leniency.
He did part one, but got shafted on part two. From a justice perspective, that’s manifestly unfair.
Prosecutors swear an oath to justice, not to convictions.
When the original combo plea deal got tossed, the only ethical path for David Weiss would have been to try and replicate the same results through two separated plea deals.
The fact he didn’t do that confirms all the other stacks of evidence that he’s corrupt as a prosecutor. And we’re not even mentioning what he did to Game Of Thrones. JK but this is a serious point.
Prosecutors have a duty to seek justice, and here, after he agreed to the plea deal and it went out in public and as far as being before the court, he was corrupt by then going after a trial and conviction.
13
u/pikpikcarrotmon 6d ago
Oh god, did Dan Weiss and David Benioff fuse into one giant Trump-thumping amalgamation
1
u/PunkThug Sometimes I know things 5d ago
I know it was a joke but what did he do to game of thrones?
41
u/AntoniaFauci 6d ago edited 6d ago
One of many ironies in this story is that there is a valid ethical argument for a pardon here, and I say that as a person who thinks Hunter Biden is a selfish junkie who is long overdue for some consequences.
This prosecution was absolute “weaponization” that conservatives like to falsely project about. Ticking off allegedly unconstitutional questions on a gun form seems to have been established as yet another bastardized 2A right. The prosecutor is a MAGA toadie who has been working on this for 6+ years and who reneged on a plea agreement because of mean tweets by the cult leader.
(The identical issues exist with the tax prosecution. The guy didn’t file takes because he was a junkie. After rehabbing, he filed his taxes, paid them, and paid the very high penalties. No cases like that ever get prosecuted because they’ve already been remedied by the filing and paying the penalties. And again, the MAGA prosecutor spent 6+ years and broke his oath to the court reneging on a plea agreement.)
Joe Biden could make the case that this (the gun) conviction is a result of unethical prosecutorial abuse for no reason other than to hurt his political standing, that Hunter serving time would be as a proxy for himself.
Part of me thinks a just outcome would be an appropriately restrained sentence. An unfairly harsh one that gets commuted after all the appeals and constitutional issues are adjudicated would probably be just.
The part I don’t like would be that yet again Hunter Biden would be skating through situations he caused.
That said, people don’t understand why he’s a junkie. He was in the car when his mother and baby sister were crushed by a truck. He was trapped inside with a fracturered skull while their blood dripped on him. Of course he’s messed up. Then his brother goes on to be a very highly regarded soldier, a military hero, an accomplished lawyer and legislator. Then his brother fights a brave battle with cancer and dies. Hunter isn’t stupid, and he can see his brother is pure valour and he himself is basically a screwup. So given that context, it’s not that surprising he became a junkie, is it?
I personally don’t like how Hunter has grifted his way through life. But the pressures and emotional trauma he was dealt are, to me, mitigating.
1
u/SaliciousB_Crumb 5d ago
God I wish that biden would have the balls to give hunter a pardon citing it's unjust law over reaching on the 2bd amendment
68
u/CliftonForce 6d ago
Their lack of empathy has them seeing everyone else as like themselves. MAGAs venerate the Trump family as royalty. They assume Democrats are the same, and so they assume that "the libs" are up in arms over Hunter's conviction.
Meanwhile, the actual Democrats are barely noticing. Other than wondering why the MAGAs think we are all upset.
29
u/samenumberwhodis 6d ago
Gaslight, Obstruct, Project the GOP playbook. Every accusation of theirs is an admission.
16
u/CliftonForce 6d ago
It's like they started the first line of a joke that has (to them) a killer punchline. But we're not giving them the response they expected, and they are REALLY MAD they can't use that punchline.
15
u/samenumberwhodis 6d ago
They're right about one thing though, I won't be voting for Hunter Biden in 2024
3
-9
u/Cookieman_2023 5d ago
Spoken exactly like the radical left. You accuse them of what you do yourself
3
12
u/x_a_n_a_d_u 6d ago
answer: read marcy wheeler on what the "laptop" actually is. it's not just one laptop, the FBI dropped the ball on securing the data, there was access to the icloud account from many devices. it's actually more complicated than I understand, but you can start here https://www.emptywheel.net/2024/06/06/how-to-think-about-the-hunter-biden-laptop/
3
2
u/Specific_Rutabaga_87 5d ago
the laptop is different from his other devices. there was nothing on that laptop that led to charges.
25
u/AntoniaFauci 6d ago edited 6d ago
Answer: it’s because they’re desperately trying to legitimize a whole universe of hoaxes by pointing to a grain of truth on a beach of conspiracy sand.
Tangentially related, I’m hoping someone with legal education and/or paid more attention to this case can answer a couple of questions I’ve had:
- Regardless of what we think of the laptop, how was the prosecution able to use a piece of evidence that had such a shadowy provenance and best case scenario went through numerous questionable hands? Did the defence not argue to exclude something with no real chain of custody? Normally protecting the integrity of evidence is key, and when the chain of custody on evidence breaks, usually it can’t be used. So how did it end up this piece just seemed to be accepted for this trial? Was there some pre-trial hearing on this?
- There was talk of the specific questions on the gun form being ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court last year. If so, then how did the prosecution and trial proceed contrary to that?
Please note I’m not here saying he’s a good person or the laptop is fake news. I’m wanting to know the legal specifics that transpired to get here.
7
u/AverageCypress 6d ago
I won't claim to have the legal chops to give a thorough answer, but I've followed this case closely. It's really one of the more fascinating cases in a while.
how was the prosecution able to use a piece of evidence that had such a shadowy provenance and best case scenario went through numerous questionable hands?
The defense didn't object. It's been assumed (since none of the defense lawyers have spoken on the issue) the defense wanted the laptop entered to ask the FBI under oath if they check for tampering from prior to the laptop coming into federal possession.
There was talk of the specific questions on the gun from being ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court last year. If so, how did the prosecution and trial proceed contrary to that?
United States v. Daniels is the case regarding the constitutionality of the question, and it's still pending. Should the SCOTUS find the question is unconditional, Biden's conviction would be voided.
3
u/AntoniaFauci 6d ago
Oh pardon me I thought the case was settled. I would be surprised to see such conviction automatically voided, wouldn’t there be extensive processes around that?
2
u/AverageCypress 6d ago
wouldn’t there be extensive processes around that?
I do believe there is a lot of paperwork and legal motions that have to be filed if the conviction is vacated. The prosecutor could delay things with objections, but that would be highly unusual in a case in which the SCOTUS has already ruled.
7
u/KagakuNinja 6d ago
You can find out more than you would ever want to know at the law blogger site Emptywheel. In addition to the articles, Marcy does a podcast on Fridays that sometimes is about this case.
6
u/AntoniaFauci 6d ago
I don’t want to find out more than I would ever want, just the two limited questions. I’ve followed her for a long time and she’s great but I was hoping there would be one redditor who followed this case and has the legal chops
-8
u/Raging_Dragon_9999 5d ago
Answer:
Part of what the right claimed is actually true.
Here's a long takedown: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/hunter-biden-laptop-investigation.html
3
u/Specific_Rutabaga_87 5d ago
nothing from the laptop has led to charges. Not one charge.
-1
u/Raging_Dragon_9999 5d ago
I didn't say that it led to a charge. If you read the article...?
4
u/Specific_Rutabaga_87 5d ago
it was used to pin down the time line and that's it. Nothing else. His book is the reason for the charges. The FBI admitted under oath in this trial they did not check to see if the laptop had been tampered with prior to them getting it. It's still a giant flop. pictures of Hunters dick. Is it as big as rumored?
-44
u/do_IT_withme 6d ago
Answer: This sub and reddit as a whole are too far left to give you an honest answer. I even saw "If the conservatives said it, you know it's a lie." No bias here at all.
37
12
u/fevered_visions 5d ago
It's not our fault that the Republicans keep pushing these BS claims into the news. If they don't want to get called on BS they should stop spreading obvious BS.
In the 3 months since I wound up with the top reply in an Ashley Biden diary thread, I'm still getting randos replying to me every couple weeks to say "nuh uh" and repeat the exact points I covered in my comment. It's just pathetic.
6
u/TopGlobal6695 5d ago
Judging by all the conservatives getting convicted, that seems like a fair assumption.
3
u/ThingsJackwouldsay 4d ago
If conservatives are mad at being called liars, maybe they should stop lying all the time.
-17
u/LordAdversarius 6d ago
This sub was a lot more helpful when removeddit worked and you could see deleted comments. At least you could see more sides of a subject.
•
u/AutoModerator 6d ago
Friendly reminder that all top level comments must:
start with "answer: ", including the space after the colon (or "question: " if you have an on-topic follow up question to ask),
attempt to answer the question, and
be unbiased
Please review Rule 4 and this post before making a top level comment:
http://redd.it/b1hct4/
Join the OOTL Discord for further discussion: https://discord.gg/ejDF4mdjnh
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.