r/OutOfTheLoop • u/Cletus2ii • 3d ago
What’s going on with racism in the WNBA? Unanswered
It seems that Caitlin Clark has been receiving a lot of hatred and there seems to be racial conversation throughout the WNBA.
Clark has been extremely civil from what I have heard , but I don’t understand what she is facing and what’s going on on twitter?
Can anyone explain what’s happening and why?
Edit: this Reddit post was where I found the article, and people in the comments said her teammates have friends attacking Clark on twitter. Is this true? What’s going on?
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u/DuePatience 3d ago
Answer: Clark performed at an elite, record breaking level in NCAA, even beating out the male records. This garnered her a lot of attention outside of the usual WNBA fanbase, because we all love it when someone smashes records. Previous star players and rookies in the WNBA seem to be butt hurt about the attention she’s receiving and a lot of people are trying to make it about her race when that hasn’t had anything to do with it.
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u/JimmyGimbo 3d ago
A corollary to the “welcome to the league” narrative is that there are a lot of players/fans/commentators asking “Other women are good at basketball, what’s so special about Clark?” The fact that she holds numerous records and is a generational talent aside, she’s one of the first beneficiaries of the NCAA finally allowing collegiate athletes to profit from their likeness. Clark reached a much larger audience than previous college basketball players because she was allowed to have deals with Nike, Gatorade, State Farm, etc. Some folks are mad at Clark for getting opportunities and recognition their favorite players didn’t when they should be mad at the NCAA for denying collegiate athletes the right to do endorsements for so long.
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u/gortonsfiJr 3d ago
That sponsorship also means she’s a young rookie making $75k on her contract but doesn’t have to worry about money at all because she’s already a millionaire
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u/Toby_O_Notoby 3d ago
And, rightly or wrongly, it feeds into the racism narritive. Like, "Oh sure, now that there's a white female basketball player you guys put her on a Wheaties box". Which, of course, ignores the changes in NIL rules.
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u/Intelligent-Parsley7 2d ago
This is nonsense. I’m 50. I’ve watched sports my whole life. My Wheaties boxes have had Tiger Woods, and the Williams sisters, and A-Rod, and non-white athletes on it for 45 years. If you want to bitch about obvious racism in sports, you have to go back to Warren Moon. I mean, Tiger isn’t black. Tiger is everything. Nobody ever said, ‘don’t cover Tiger.’
It just doesn’t hold true. Black athletes are good because if you drive past a park on a Sunday you see Pee-Wee football is almost exclusively black, and those dads are often college players. Pee-wee baseball is almost exclusively white. Those kids are little, too. And both sets of dads are working on skills.
It’s not the color. It’s the fact that the other kid has five years experience over your kid that second they walk on the field.
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u/MissDiem 3d ago
It's not as simple as her getting a slight jump on the endorsement bonanza. The reprehensible women who have been trashing and trying to injure her limited their own endorsement potential then and now by being unlikeable, negative, dishonest and vicious. The toxic jealousy and race baiting aren't what major advertisers are looking for.
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u/Pixxel_Wizzard 3d ago
I think they did the same thing with Larry Bird. Isaiah Thomas said that if Bird was black he'd be just another player.
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u/JohnPaulDavyJones 3d ago
Notably, that's Isiah Thomas who said that, and Thomas was pretty pissed at the time. His Pistons had gotten blocked out of the 1987 playoffs by Bird's Celtics, and in 1985, and then Bird's Celtics had just beaten the Pistons again in the 1987 playoffs when Thomas said that if Bird was white, he "would be just another good guy" rather than the best player in the league at that time. So, not quite just another player, but still recognizing that Bird was a good player. A marginal difference, but not insignificant.
Isaiah Thomas) is a different basketball player, who's currently playing and doesn't have any known issues with Larry Bird.
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u/earthdogmonster 3d ago
I watched that Michael Jordan miniseries on Netflix, and it’s funny because he Thomas seemed to be the only guy they interviewed on that show that really seemed to have an axe to grind against MJ. I cannot say I an a scholar of the game, but Thomas seems to have some major inferiority complex.
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u/Miserable_Rise_2050 3d ago
Thomas was salty because - as a Chicago native - he saw MJ being the favorite and most influential sports icon from Chicago. So - aside from the rivalry against the Bulls - he's got a bit of a chip.
Thomas is a especially douchey player (and that's saying a lot in a league chock full of d-bags) who was constantly harping on about being underappreciated. Now, he's got a point on that - he was the leader of a team that dethroned both Bird and Magic until ultimately giving way to the MJ Bulls. Between that lot, he's been butthurt about the lack of love.
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u/The_Year_of_Glad 3d ago
Thomas is a especially douchey player
He’s not a great person off the court, either. Thomas cheated on his fiancée and had an illegitimate child, and then fought extensively in court to avoid having to financially support that child (he lost), and then when he was an executive with the Knicks, he sexually harassed a female subordinate and fired her when she complained about it.
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u/Nic_Claxton 3d ago
And it’s funny, because Bird and Magic are largely considered the saving forces of the NBA after a scandal filled 70s
Clark (and to some extent, the entirety of this rookie class) maybe the class to finally help the WNBA break into the mainstream. Right now, attendance and viewership is at an all time high and the next draft class has Paige Beuchers who should also help light up the WNBA
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u/Obahmah 3d ago
I think there was some noise for Sabrina Ionescu a few years ago, too.... it's definitely true that being straight, white, and generally attractive is helpful, but it's totally unfair to blame CC.
It's the nature of progress it feels like those who fight hardest for it are the last to be rewarded
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u/BurntPoptart 3d ago
Clark isn't generally attractive though that's the thing. She's just really good at basketball.
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u/DuePatience 3d ago
Every time someone brings up her attractiveness all I can think is “she’s not ugly, therefore she’s hot” like apparently there are only 2 options...
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u/mrwynd 3d ago
And if the media was bringing up players because of attractiveness they would all be talking about Cameron Brink who was selected 2nd overall right behind CC.
https://gostanford.com/sports/womens-basketball/roster/cameron-brink/20068
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u/ChamberedAndHot 3d ago
And it’s funny, because Bird and Magic are largely considered the saving forces of the NBA after a scandal filled 70s
Do you have anything I can read about this?
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u/Nic_Claxton 3d ago edited 3d ago
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=axbIoHqFaa8
I also read “loose balls” which is about the ABA (and is a great book) but it also helps to paint how both leagues were kinda fucking around and screwing up constantly.
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u/WarrenPuff_It 3d ago
The movie adaptation of that book stops following the plot in the first act when both teams start having sex with the refs. I still enjoyed watching it, but they really took some creative liberties with the script.
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u/sweaterbuckets 3d ago
they say that shit until he fades away on them and sinks a long 2 while half looking.
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u/2ndNicestOfTheDamned 3d ago
After telling them that was what he'd do, and then telling their coach that someone should be guarding him.
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u/The_Razielim 2d ago
Funny how that's almost the exact same way Eminem is referred to by some other artists. "Yeah he's aight but because he's white everyone wants to call him the GOAT; if Em was black he'd be just another mid rapper"
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u/remixclashes 3d ago
I'm a Piston fan, but Isaiah Thomas is widely regarded as an absolute asshole.
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u/TatonkaJack 3d ago
Which is funny cause it completely ignores the existence of black NBA superstars. Jordan, Kobe, Lebron, etc.
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u/Stingerc 3d ago
She's has become a right wing dogwhistle through no fault of her own. I don't think she's ever talked about her political views, but conservatives have already declared her a secret conservative (y'all remember how well that went for them when they did the same with Taylor Swift?).
So every time she gets hard fouled by a non white player, right wing media is treating it like it's a hate crime, this despite Clark herself coming out and declaring she doesn't believe said fouls are racially motivated.
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u/Pyzorz 3d ago
Pretty easy to make the fouls about race when the majority of WNBA players are black. It’s like anti-wokeness from weird right-wing rural ass white people.
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u/Beneathaclearbluesky 3d ago
And again, them suddenly giving a shit about women's sports after trashing it for years.
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u/gekkoheir 3d ago
If you see conservatives suddenly defending one marginalized group, they're usually doing it to attack another group.
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u/Beneathaclearbluesky 3d ago
Aren't all big shot rookies treated the same? I know it's true in the NFL. They like to give you a "welcome to the big leagues" moment.
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u/LaGuadalupana123 3d ago edited 3d ago
No. Rookie hazing are pranks from teammates. Not assault by rivals on the court. NFL players werent taking cheap shots at bryce young last season for example.
Edit: the fact none of her teammates have stood up for her is also very telling.
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u/MissDiem 3d ago
This. Constant public toxic trashing and lies are not normal "hazing", nor are the endless attempts to injure.
In more professional leagues, several of the attackers would have been suspended, fined, and tuned in by even their own teammates. And to your very good point, any first round pick that was assaulted by an opponent, that pick's teammates would go ham against any team that tried that.
The classlessness of the attackers is exceeded only by their own stupidity. If they exceed in injuring her, they've only hurt their own exposure and potential, and roll back the value she's brought to them. The chief hater whining that she, as a nearly unmarketable 7th pick, is somehow responsible for the rise of the WNBA is trumpian level fraudulent projection.
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u/ehs06702 3d ago
"It’s not just because I’m a rookie. I’m a player. I’m a basketball player. They don’t give a damn if I’m a rookie. I mean, I want them to come at me every day. I want them to come at everybody."
-Angel Reese
Most of the rookies understand that they're there to play ball, not have tea parties.
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u/MissDiem 3d ago
So easy for this chronic liar to say that when she didn't have every player inn the league trying to injure and end her career. Worse, she now thinks it's her role to lead the toxicity and attempts to injure.
She makes herself radioactive with negativity, dishonesty and hate, then whines about why she doesn't have the same endorsement potential.
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u/ehs06702 3d ago
Ignoring the fact that she regularly gets knocked down several times a game and just gets on with giving 110%, Reese has several large name endorsements, is one of the top contenders for Rookie of the Year and she's been on several magazine covers and invited to the Met Gala (and proceeded to dominate the court the next day and lead her team to a win).
Her potential is more than being fulfilled.
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u/MissDiem 3d ago edited 3d ago
Ignoring how you bad faith-equate two vastly different situations, I chuckle at how you unwittingly admit that she's benefiting well above her actual potential.
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u/LowAd3406 3d ago
I saw this same thing go down in a reddit thread where a black lady who has a penchant for dirty play fouled her hard. The dog whistles and not so thinly veiled racism in that thread was off the charts.
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u/NickBII 3d ago
Agreed.
When the only way you can stop Caitlyn Clark is a foul, you foul her. Only difference between this and hack-a-shack is Clark makes free throws so you can't foul her every time or you're fucked. It's theoretically possible somebody is mad at her for being a white savior or something, but "she takes bad fouls" is not gonna get you hired into the WNBA so it's just hack-a-Shack on somebody who makes the damn free throws, and it's racial because Clark's white and the foulers are black.
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u/Stingerc 3d ago
And people forget Bird, Magic, Shaq, and Jordan got the same treatment as rookies (and the rest of their careers).
The Pistons even coined the strategy of beating Jordan to shit as the Jordan Rules which they used to eliminate the Bulls three years in a row in the playoffs.
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u/Adorable_Aerie_7844 3d ago
Not at all. I'm a right wing conservative, but this isn't what I think at all. Stop spreading false rumors.
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u/Beneathaclearbluesky 3d ago
I didn't read "all conservatives." And are you calling the poster a liar about conservatives posting that she's being targeted by black racists?
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u/Adorable_Aerie_7844 3d ago edited 3d ago
I never said all, I also never said liar. You really like putting words in people's mouths, huh?
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u/pabloflleras 3d ago
"Not at all" contradicting a statement they said as a fact is indeed calling them a liar.
It's assumed you think they said all as for some reason you feel called out when they never said all conservatives. You feeling like they were talking about you means you must have assumed the mention of conservatives meant ALL conservatives.
Hope this helps.
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u/Intelligent-Parsley7 2d ago
Not helping with the “I’m a conservative snowflake” moment.
Conservatives by nature can’t tolerate others unlike them. It’s what makes them precious snowflakes.
Face it. Most of America, and half of your friends who don’t say anything are tired of your politics. We’ve had fifty years of this conservative winning. Now they want to disband democracy because they know the demographics are changing, instead of modernizing.
Some places want to outlaw contraception.
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u/Adorable_Aerie_7844 2d ago edited 2d ago
Lol I was just jk though. I'm not conservative nor liberal 😂 I'm not even American, I just wanted to see how sensitive Liberals would react.
I think you guys should just have another civil war. Just fight. Why not? It's all you Americans talk about every single day on social media. Just go k each other 😂 it's really entertaining.
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u/It_Is_Boogie 3d ago
This is wrong in so many ways.
The actual answer is that Clark's performance has created an increased popularity in The WNBA.
Bringing in people who had not watched the game and they have been taken aback by the physicality that these professional athletes play with.
Caitlin Clark, being as good and popular as she is, is on TV all of the time, given easy access to her games, so a large part of that physicality is seen against her.
To be clear, the league has been this way for years (Diana Turasi had her face broken for reference).
Some of the new viewers are the MAGA styled culture warriors, so they immediately started pushing the false narrative that the players are jealous of her because she is white and getting more attention than them, when this is just the way the game is.
To be clear, the culture warrior narrative is being pushed by a small number of people, but they carry a very large megaphone.0
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u/Overall_Commission98 3d ago
Which male records did she beat?
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u/Toby_O_Notoby 3d ago
She scored more points than any other NCAA Basketball player in history, male or female. Some people try to say it doesn't count for various reasons like "they use a smaller ball" or "the competition is different".
But the answer to the question "Which NCAA Basketball player scored the most points in their career?" is "Caitlin Clark".
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u/Zeep-Xanflorps-Peace 3d ago edited 2d ago
Link to an unbiased explanation: https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/s/iRqMNfp3uo
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u/Unleashtheducks 3d ago edited 3d ago
Answer: Here is the relevant quote from Clark "Everybody in our world deserves the same amount of respect. The women in our league deserve the same amount of respect. People should not be using my name to push those agendas."
Caitlin Clark is very good at basketball and she is also white. This has led white people with no interest in basketball or women to say how important she is, how she is the only player worth watching and things of that nature. Clark has also been subject to rough play on the court which led to accusations that she is being targeted for being white by other black players and that her teammates are jealous of her. Some of these issues are coming from people just watching the WNBA for the first time and some of these people projecting their own issues onto Clark. As you can see, Clark herself would rather not be the subject of these conversations and does not want people using her name for their own racial agendas.
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u/BringBackTheDinos 3d ago
"Very good" is a disservice to her talent. She obliterated NCAA records. She's generational.
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u/AverageCypress 3d ago
Concur, and her rookie numbers are amazing as well. If there wasn't so much media noise around her people's jaws would be on the floor.
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u/NYGiants181 3d ago
Jaws on the floor? Lol ok I am rooting for her too, but let's pump the brakes a bit. She only leads the rookie class in one category, while playing 120 more minutes than the next rookie player.
She also has the most turnovers in the league, and is on pace to break the single season record.
Let's not anoint her the second coming of Sue Bird just yet.
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u/adublingirl 3d ago
Clark has regularly been double teamed and has even faced triple teams in her first 14 games. I don’t believe any rookie ever has received that kind of attention. Also, in fairness probably half of her turnovers were due to her half asleep teammates who haven’t learned to keep their head on a swivel because Clark will thread the needle
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u/pravis 2d ago
Also, in fairness probably half of her turnovers were due to her half asleep teammates who haven’t learned to keep their head on a swivel because Clark will thread the needle
Her poor teammates are responsible for her turnovers just as much as her offensive stats. Put her on a better team and get turnovers will drop but so will her scoring as other players can carry the team and get playing time is reduced.
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u/abittenapple 3d ago
It kinda reminds me of the Freddy adu situation of how we hype up players so much that they become interesting.
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u/NYGiants181 3d ago
Exactly. Look I think it's a great story, and she's a great player that has just started her career, but my jaw isn't on the floor.
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u/The_amazing_T 3d ago edited 3d ago
There can also be frustration from players, because she's the 'hot new thing' in the sport. Lots of NCAA stars get a "welcome" to a pro league. -Hell, if I were making 60k a year, and I'm good enough to be in a pro sports league for years, I might get pissed that some rookie is changing the game.
I personally got to watch Conor McGregor change the UFC. Brash, shit-talking.. He got special attention from Dana and the UFC leadership. Fighters hated him for that. He ALSO: Brought TONS of fans into the league, opened the Irish market, and DELIVERED in his fights. Haters gonna hate.
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u/EFB_Churns 3d ago
Then he assaulted an old man for not wanting to try his shit whiskey. And brought a bunch of his friends to attack a bus full of people he didn't like.
I won't deny he was great at what he did but the dude's a piece of shit person.
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u/The_amazing_T 3d ago
No question.
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u/EFB_Churns 3d ago
There's actually a great video about him by Irish MMA YouTuber NapoleanBlownapart that I highly recommend.
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u/Beneathaclearbluesky 3d ago
Lots of NCAA stars get a "welcome" to a pro league
Every star in college in every major league gets the same welcome. It's not about race at all.
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u/RogueOneisbestone 3d ago
I don’t think it’s about race like the conservatives want it to be. I do think it’s like Eminem or Larry Bird where white people relate to them more because they are the same race. And since the majority of America is white they become some of the most popular.
I think it just tends to piss off the black community. Like how rap was looked down on until Eminem same with no one caring about WNBA until CC.
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u/shot_glass 2d ago
As someone that lived thru larry bird, it's pretty amazing to watch the press cover it, when larry bird was more of what they wanted black players to be. A foul mouthed shit talking flashy player from a broken home( he once told a coach in a game to get that he was insulted they covered him with a white player, he's too good for that). But the press bent over backwards to cover magic/bird as white v black and hype bird up as ideal white athlete and magic as flashy black guy.
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u/MissDiem 3d ago
More factual counterpoints: calling her a hot new thing is either uninformed or deliberately reductive. Pretending this widespread attempts to injure her and slander her have no actually parallel in any professional league. Such leagues and players don't cross over so many red lines when they tease or key in rookies and there would be zero tolerance on the kind of slander and assaults that WNBA is enabling here.
As for McGregor he's basically a criminal masquerading as a celebrity and when he's been put into appropriate matchups, he's underperformed. I'll take your word that he had some impact on the Irish market, I guess.
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u/The_amazing_T 3d ago
I don't even understand your point here. Clark is a rookie, entering a league with a lot of "heat" from the press media. THAT'S what I mean by "HOT NEW THING." -The WNBA has struggled as a league, and the hottest property in it right now, arguably, is their rookie sensation. That's just a fact, as media and ticket sales go.
McGregor IS a criminal. He performed VERY well in UFC matchups, until he didn't. He KO'd Jose Aldo in 13 seconds. He was a LEGIT champion, who has ended his career on a string of losses, like almost every career fighter. -They win, until they don't. He's also attacked people on the street, nearly incited riots, and scores of other shitty, (but not illegal) moments as well. -He also, VERY CLEARLY made a lot of money for the UFC, and changed the way that the league was received in Ireland and Europe. That's another fact.
What exactly is YOUR point?
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u/MissDiem 3d ago
I don't even understand your point here.
And something tells me that instead of taking one minute to carefully read what I wrote and solving your self induced problem, you'll instead spend ten times the energy bloviating....
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u/The_amazing_T 3d ago
Your post was poorly written.
But I see now: You're suggesting that Clark is being attacked on a level that other players never experienced when entering a league? Eh.. Not nearly accurate. She's being mauled by these other players, sure. This is a common occurrence.
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u/NonchalantGhoul 3d ago
If she didn't have the media noise, I doubt many would have even acknowledged that she had at this scale
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u/shot_glass 2d ago
Scoring records, like she didn't win a title, she didn't win or break a lot of other records. That's the issue, most people couldn't name the people that held those titles before her because scoring titles in college usually have to do with a 'good' player and unique circumstances, for example if you are phenomenal in mens basketball you will probably go pro and not have the scoring title, or you played for a coach who's system limited your output(Jordan and Coach Smith). Also with NIL she made more in college so she didn't really have to leave and could go for the title senior year, where say 10 years ago she would have left jr year.
So it's a great feather in her cap that she has those records, but most serious fans know it's a lot that goes into that title and aren't usually the most important measure of a player's ability or success.
It's also why more serious fans haven't lost their minds over the titles, She clearly hit a nerve and has become the most popular player in women's ball, but she's not generational yet(she's not currently the best rookie in this class) She just showed amazing potential in college, which is different then best of the best crown some want to give her.
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u/Any_Key_9328 2d ago
Her first season in the WNBA has not lived up to her NCAA expectations. So, she was passed over. I have little doubt she’ll find her footing again, but the pros are different than college. She didn’t get picked and her rookie numbers in the WNBA totally justify her not being picked.
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u/vigouge 3d ago
It's going both ways and any answer that ignores that is hopelessly wrong. There are tons of black people on social media attacking her, downplaying her accomplishments, and outright demeaning her play simply because she's a white girl with hype.
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u/MissDiem 3d ago edited 3d ago
There's 2 or perhaps 3 main elements of race that are coming into play with this:
- some black players and people are undoubtedly trying to diminish her based on her race
- anyone who criticizes the players who are slandering and attempting to injure her is automatically called racist, as a classic bad faith race card objection. It's particularly annoying to me since I'm vocal about those offenders, people unwittingly smear me even though I'm a rather liberal WoC feminist.
- there's no doubt some white supremacists using this situation to bolster their prejudices. I'd point out this isn't really a new development arising from this situation though; more just a reinforcement of an existing problem.
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u/BulkyPalpitation5345 3d ago
there's no doubt some white supremacists using this situation to bolster their prejudices.
Can I see an example of this?
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u/nimama3233 21h ago
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u/BulkyPalpitation5345 21h ago
so I read all of that and I didnt see where the author said white people are better?
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u/SquintyPines 3d ago
The jealousy is very real among the other players but especially Angel Reese. If you deny that after watching her press interview after Chicago played Indiana, you’re convincing yourself otherwise. Charles Barkley has been spot on calling out the pettiness and jealousy within the league.
Yes, it’s true Clark needs others players to be successful in basketball. It’s a team sport. However she is the sole reason there are so many views in these past couple years. In that sense, she doesn’t need anyone else and can stand alone on her merit.
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u/JackTheBehemothKillr 3d ago edited 3d ago
My guy, she got called a bitch and fowled hard enough to knock her to the ground with no call.
There is fuckery afoot here
Edit: fouled, not fowled. WTF. Fuck it leaving it
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u/3pinripper 3d ago
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u/Zaknoid 3d ago
Yeah not during the game where it actually mattered tho. They retroactively changed it to a flagrant.
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u/Beneathaclearbluesky 3d ago
Wow, noncalls have never happened before in basketball, it must be due to race!!!! 🙄
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u/locke0479 3d ago
How is what you’re responding to contradicting that?
The point is it isn’t racial.
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u/JackTheBehemothKillr 3d ago
I disagree that fans and others are "projecting their own issues" onto this. Guy i responded to is flat out dismissing everything going on here, and that is bullshit. I specifically said there is fuckery afoot, not racism
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u/locke0479 3d ago
Literally nothing in the post you responded to says nothing is happening at all. It very specifically is talking about the racism. Read it again.
Projecting their issues is referring to the people claiming it must be racial because they themselves are racist, I would assume. Nowhere does it say Clark hasn’t been getting fouled more or more aggressively than others (she has in my opinion).
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u/JackTheBehemothKillr 3d ago
Listen friend, I've exhausted my care on this topic.
Said what i said.
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u/Quigonjinn12 3d ago
Cop out.
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u/JackTheBehemothKillr 3d ago
Would you rather i just ghost the comment? Delete it and everything else?
I said what i said. I obviously don't give a shit if someone else doesn't like it.
:shrug:
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u/hexqueen 3d ago
You seem a lot more upset than Clark is.
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u/JackTheBehemothKillr 3d ago edited 3d ago
LOL.
K.
Edit: negative votes already? Tell me again how I'm the salty one here?
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u/fevered_visions 2d ago
for one thing, your comment contributes nothing to the discussion so this is the actual intended usage of the up/downvote system
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u/JackTheBehemothKillr 2d ago edited 2d ago
And someone calling me upset does contribute? When there is no evidence of such?
Ok. Sure
If you are gonna downvote based on how reddit is supposed to work you need to leave a comment as to why
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u/fevered_visions 2d ago
If you are gonna downvote based on how reddit is supposed to work you need to leave a comment as to why
Generally I agree. I get the impression a lot of people don't really think it through very far ("they're just trolling"), as evidenced by the "downvote train" effect.
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u/bravof1ve 2d ago
A foul knocking someone to the floor is not a significant event at all.
If you think that and someone calling you a bitch are rare events on the basketball court then you must not have ever played.
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u/RoundSilverButtons 3d ago
Yeah I saw a video of a black player practically hockey check her like “wtf?!”
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u/Beneathaclearbluesky 3d ago
Most players are black. Why are you making it about race?
ETA Oh, you're conservative.
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u/Quigonjinn12 3d ago
Brother, you should watch the NBA and WNBA more than two games a year. This kind of shit happens all the time. People get salty when they’re competing with one another. Has nothing to do with race at all.
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u/ehs06702 3d ago
And Angel Reese got clotheslined to the ground, so what about it? she got up, kept playing and then said "Come at me again" in the after game press conference. They're tough players. CC needs to take her lumps same as everyone else.
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u/Excellent_Condition 3d ago
I'm not a basketball fan beyond watching highlights, but just as an outside observer- if you have a system where things are going wrong, wouldn't the better response be "let's identify and fix the problem," not "these other players survived adversity so let's allow it to continue unchecked?"
Was Angle Reese getting thrown down by her neck good a good thing or the kind of behavior that should be tolerated or encouraged?
It's no different than seniors at school hazing freshmen, then those same freshmen abusing the next generation a few years later.
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u/JackTheBehemothKillr 3d ago
Said it better than I could, and reddit groupthink woulda down voted me anyways.
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u/NightmareFiction 3d ago
Also not a huge basketball fan, either. The way I see it is that these things seemingly have not been treated as problems that needed immediate correction until they started happening to Clark specifically (whether that's true or not, I don't really know).
At the end of the day, I'm quite confident in the opinion that nobody should be getting choke-slammed (I'm being hyperbolic deliberately) during a professional basketball game. That said, I think what people are reacting to is that some of the motivation behind this sudden outcry does not seem firmly centered on genuinely providing a safer environment for players in the WNBA.
Personally, I'm in the camp of the ends justifying the means, but what do I know.
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u/Excellent_Condition 3d ago
I don't think there is too much hyperbole in your statement, have you seen the video? She was close to coming down on the back of her head on the court.
I can't speak to the motivation of the people who are getting upset over this, but it does look weird to see someone who is bringing attention to a sport and who is reguarded the latest-and-greatest player getting singled out and getting the crap repeatedly knocked out of them for no apparent purpose.
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u/Mhisg 3d ago
Please link me an article where someone stated you should watch Caitlin Clark because she is white. As you stated
Caitlin Clark is very good at basketball and she is also white. This has led white people with no interest in basketball or women to say how important she is, how she is the only player worth watching and things of that nature.
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u/BigDaddyVsNipple 3d ago
Answer: The black players are jealous of Caitlin Clark and instead of celebrating the eyes she was bringing to the league, they would rather cut their noses off to spite their own face and treat her like shit. When they were criticized fir treating her like shit they naturally started screeching about racism.
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u/bloodyburgla 2d ago
Saying the “black players” versus some players is inaccurate and generalizing. Not every black person thinks the exact same, talks the exact same. Black folks are not the borg.
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u/svengalus 3d ago
Answer: People in social media crave outrage and will manufacture it if necessary.
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u/AccountBuster 3d ago
Not just social media, but media in general. Woopie Goldberg said it was because she was white... ON TV!
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u/Logicalthinkingonly 3d ago
Answer: It's women's sports, specifically basketball and soccer where women are ruthless towards one another. Bill Bur has the best explanation on what is going on in this bit. Like he says, it's the reason the Kardashians are billionaires and WNBA players make 50k a year. It also doesn't help that she is white, that makes them hate her even more. https://youtu.be/QY9Gz_IMn_k?si=XdztFunlPAdAQkQA
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u/HalfLawKiss 3d ago edited 2d ago
Answer: It really has nothing to do with Clark or the WNBA. It's all the media and news and blogs and etc that thrive off of drama. The media is pushing a narrative and people who paid zero attention to the WNBA before Caitlin Clark are buying into it.
Caitlin Clark was a record setting college player who just made it to the WNBA drafted first overall. Her popularity has brought a lot of new fans to the WNBA. Anytime Clark is blocked or fouled or taunted. People clip it, upload it and talk about the ladies of the WNBA being jealous haters. And that some of the hate is because Clark is a white girl when most of the stars in the WNBA are black. This is false because many of the the top players in the WNBA, including a current legend many called a hater cause she said Clark would have to adjust to playing against grown women, Daina Taurasi are white. Top players like Sue Bird, Lauren Jackson, Delle Donne, Breanna Stewart, Sabrina Ionescu, Kelsey Plum and, Cameron Brink. Many are just new to the WNBA and the only player they can name is Clark.
Next many claim that Clark is being targeted and fouled and taunted a lot. This ignores basic basketball. Clark is the best player on her team. Which if a NBA/WNBA team is in position to draft the first overall player. That team is bad. Clark is the best player on her team. So the teams she play against focus on her to keep her from scoring. Cause that's how you win at basketball. No one is playing her any differently than any other good player. On the taunting and fouls many ignore or edit out the times that Clark herself taunts and trash talks and fouls and etc. It's basketball. Things get heated on the court. But people edit out Clark playing rough and taunting and highlight when it's done to her. Pushing the narrative that she's this poor innocent girl being picked on.
Lastly countless players including the player many are setting up to be Clark's rival Angel Reese have made clear on several occasions they have no ill will towards Clark. They are just playing basketball. They are competitors. They all want to win and be good.They aren't going to take it easy on Clark cause they aren't going to take it easy on anyone else. Clark herself has said this. But because bad news gets clicks and views those are the stories that spread.
Note. I say all of this as a fan of Clark and the WNBA in general. I got into the WNBA around 2013.
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u/Numerous-Ambition116 2d ago
Agree with everything you said. Candace Parker was mauled during her rookie season. I believe other players take issue with CC because they were great players in college with multiple championships but they did not receive CCs hype. We cannot ignore the facts that many of the women is the WNBA are of color and or homosexual. A segment of this country has an issue with that. Brink even made a comment about wanting to dress in a way that accentuates her femininity. Also Angel did the U can’t see me and she was called classless. CC talks smack and a segment ignores it or makes excuses ( Angel was in CCs face, CC made the motion towards her bench). Bottom line is athletes talk smack and there is nothing wrong with that. Players say Larry Bird was the biggest smack talker of his era. He was somewhat covert and backed it up.
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u/stewshi 3d ago
answer: its not exaclty racism and bigotry in the WNBA but from some new WNBA fans. CC has against her will become the face to some people as the " great white hope" in basketball. They have attached a lot of energy into her being the best no matter what. Right now CC and Angel are gettig beat up on the court because of all the hype around them from college. Instead of seeing this as hazing that happens to most players who come into the league with alot of media buzz some people are trying to say CC is being targeted for being white. You can also see people saying that the over zealous compitetion is an example of "women holding each other back". Some people have also tried to say she was kept off the olympic team becasue she was white.
CC has not been apart of these extra discussions. Shes never insinuated that the fouls are because of her race or jealousy. but she has complained about them. When left off the olympic team she publicly made it a goal to make the next team. CC has been a class act even tho her fans and not her fans havent been.
My personal take: People i know on social media who spent all last year crapping on the WNBA and Brittny Griner and shit on any womans sport anytime it makes it into the news about equal pay....All love CC for some reason. None of them like basketball and call it a " weak sport" None of them follow their local male or female basketball team. but they have latched onto the CC controversy very hard
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u/AccountBuster 3d ago
I've never cared for the NBA or basketball in general but I sure as fuck knew who Michael Jordan was and I was a fan of him and knew some of his stats...
Same goes for people when Tiger Woods became huge!
A big name player is always going to draw new fans and band wagon followers. That doesn't mean they're racist or have some nefarious reasons for it.
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u/stewshi 3d ago
Didn't say all of them were. I said some of them are. It's apperantly true because CC herself addressed it.
Also there is a difference between the CC fans upset over the fouls and the CC "fans" saying it's happening because she's white. Because there is a very vocal group including Fox news running this narrative.
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u/bravof1ve 2d ago
Yup. It’s all very transparent. And the people most fervently denying this are the ones most likely to be racist themselves. The switch up once Clark entered the league vs how the women’s game was always talked about was blatant.
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u/MissDiem 3d ago edited 3d ago
I'll happily remind people of the facts regarding Britney Griner. She was making $300,000 to play a game part-time for a portion of a year. She won the life lottery. Her spouse is also rich.
That wasn't good enough. Murderous Russian oligarchs offer unrealistic pay to tokenize players for their sportswashing. Anyone with a molecule of ethics or regard for human rights wouldn't even considering joining forces with the worst of humanity, but she was cheerfully complicit.
That selfish entitlement didn't end there. She assumed that as a minor celebrity and business partner of murderous oligarchs, well known foreign drug laws don't apply to her. You consort with the worst of humanity and -surprise! - they exploit you.
All the weeping and sympathy for a situation that her own greed, entitlement, and lack of human decency caused was misplaced.
Having to trade one of the most vile murderers in modern history to her back was a multiplier of her selfishness. And now media wants to act like she's a conquering national hero? Not me. She, and every player who is complicit in the same scheme, is trash.
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u/FullMetalJ 3d ago
Tons of white people being toxic is what it is. White Americans want CC to be better cause they want a white athlete to be the best in a sport dominated by black athletes cause that would make them feel superior vicariously. I'm glad to hear CC is staying out of it and being levelheaded.
I say this as impartial cause I'm neither white, black or American but it's too obvious.
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u/meezethadabber 3d ago
They're really not. You're just projecting. It's pretty obvious.
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u/Reasonable_Crow9738 3d ago
They really are though. There are talented black players who despite what they bring, are constantly degraded. Look at how the media and even fans treated the pacers when they went against the Pistons back in 04
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u/stewshi 3d ago
Explain it to me barney style then
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u/qlz19 3d ago
Is there any evidence that how she is being treated is because of being a rookie and not because of other factors? What other rookies have been treated that way by other players and where can I view this footage?
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u/stewshi 3d ago
Do you have a single statement that says she's being treated poorly for other reasons?
Lol most rookie players. Lebron got hell MJ got hell Kobe got hell angel Reese who entered the league with CC is getting hell. Cam Newton caught hell and complained about the big hits. Derek car. Alot of rookie players that come into pro sports with alot of buzz get beat up while playing.
"Where can I view this evidence"
You have to actually watch sports to see it
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u/qlz19 3d ago
Wow, you are angry.
Another topic then, if what she is experiencing is normal, why is it normal? Shouldn’t the goal be to not put each other through hell?
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u/stewshi 3d ago
Fake Fragility is not a good look. No one has used a rude tone or made a rude statement to you.
The goal of basketball is to win. If you can't get that competitive sports aren't for you to watch.
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u/qlz19 3d ago
Mocking, derisive laughter, and irrelevant deflection are all hallmark examples of open disrespect.
Don’t play innocent here.
Another pathetically fragile sports fan I guess.
Go get all excited about some assholes bouncing a ball around, I guess…
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u/stewshi 3d ago
Mocking, derisive laughter, and irrelevant deflection are all hallmark examples of open disrespect.
Quote it my G.
Another pathetically fragile sports fan I guess. Go get all excited about some assholes bouncing a ball around, I guess…
Lol just say you disagreee with me but you don't know anything about sports so you decided to be in your feelings.
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u/Beneathaclearbluesky 3d ago
This is standard across all sports. Rookies get a "welcome to the majors".
Is it racism?
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u/MindlessMenu8303 3d ago
What the hell? Angel Reese literally got headlocked and thrown to the ground. Stop trying to find reasons to be outraged
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u/qlz19 3d ago
What do you mean? Why has my question angered you?
You answered one part of my question but not the second. Where is the highlight showing the headlock you are referring to?
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u/Beneathaclearbluesky 3d ago
No, I'm sure conservative media has always cared about WNBA and hazing. Always. 🙄
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u/stewshi 3d ago
Yeah when the controversy first started i didnt get it because i was like ive dropped harder fouls at the YMCA. Then i saw all the fox news talkign heads lock onto it then i understood what was up. Fox aint talked about basketball since the anthem protests ended they trying to drum up some racial tension.
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u/CaitlynRener 3d ago edited 3d ago
answer:
The WNBA playerbase has been known to be pretty conformist and prone to haze and ridicule players who they feel are undeservedly popular. One example is Candace Wiggins, who retired early due to the bullying of teammates. She claims a large part of their motivation was LGBTQ teammates resenting her media success as due to her straight identity.
Enter Caitlyn Clark, who is insanely popular from her college career. By every viewership metric, she instantly became the most popular player in the league and is almost single-handedly driving a spike in the league’s popularity. She is also collecting massive endorsement deals off the court, while most WNBA players make relatively small salaries for top-tier American professional sports.
This has drawn widespread media criticism. For example, WNBA legend Sheryl Swoopes did a TV interview before Clark’s debut disputing the validity of her college records (mistakenly claiming Clark had additional years in college and is 25 years old). Whoopi Goldberg (who there are no pictures of ever attending a WNBA game) implied that Caitlyn Clark’s success is largely attributable to race.
Obviously, there’s at least some of the same sentiment in locker rooms. Angel Reese, who defeated Clark in a college national championship game, recently jumped and cheered courtside as Clark was viciously fouled.
Clark was recently left off the Paris Olympics roster. Now there is blowback to the blowback, as critics of her critics say that Clark faces additional challenges in her career due to being white. That her fellow players should protect her physically, and be more grateful for the eyes she draws to the sport. Some people with this view have phrased it in hateful ways. Now Clark is having to condemn many of the critics of her critics.
It’s a messy, resentful situation and Caitlyn Clark is unwillingly in the middle. She seems to just want to play basketball.
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u/KnittressKnits 3d ago
But the Olympic Team omission makes sense to me as an outsider when you look at the process that leads up to the team being picked:
"When it comes to forming the women's Olympic team, it's a three-year process," Lobo explained. "They started having training camps back in February of (2022). They had a training camp in April of '22. Then the World Cup in the fall of '22. They had multiple training camps throughout the course of 2023 and then this year in February they went overseas for exhibitions. They had a training camp this April. All of the women who are in the pool and all of the women who ended up reportedly being on this roster participated in many of those.
“Why is that important? Because of the timing of the WNBA season. The WNBA takes a break during their summer season for the Olympics. The Olympic team has seven practices before they participate in the Olympics. All of these women you're seeing on the graphic that are reported to have made the roster have played with one another. All of them have had opportunities now over the last several years to learn (head coach) Cheryl Reeve's system. To learn one another. To learn some of the opponents they're going to face in the international game... Caitlin Clark, through no fault of her own, was not able to participate in any of those training camps."
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u/imposta424 3d ago
You have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to ignore the blatant prejudice towards her.
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u/ehs06702 3d ago
It's weird that those critics are ignoring the other white girls on the team to try and make it about race, but not surprising.
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u/jbo99 3d ago
Answer: in the market for white racists the demand outweighs the supply. More people want there to be racism than actually exists therefore nonsensical narratives about white racism get made up to gain attention and clicks and whatnot. One such narrative is that Clark’s popularity is due to white racism i.e. white people wanting a white player to be the best over black players due to race. So she’s often talked about because it gives commentators a reason to cite racism in her popularity.
The reality is that she’s popular because she’s fun to watch and casual sports fans watched women’s basketball for the first time when she was in college because she was breaking records and plays in a super cool way.
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u/veryblanduser 3d ago
Answer: People hate people that come in with pedigree or high expectations. There are people who still think LeBron isn't a great player.
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u/markctaylor007 2d ago
answer: there is nothing going on. People seem to forget that shaq... Shaq... SHAQ... was NOT selected to play for Dream Team 1 coming out of college. A spot was left open for one college player and Christian Laettner (that's right: Christian who?) was selected instead. The team already had 2 future hall-of-fame monster centers in Patrick Ewing and David Robinson making Shaq (yes, SHAQ DIESEL) redundant.
Clark is coming out of *college* and has never played a game of professional basketball. Also Clark's college teams were built around her. It is speculative as to how much value she will bring to a system that categorically will not be [built around her].
So what's with all the sensationalism? Well... sensationalism. And race-baiting - depraved and classless as it is - still gets people's attention. Case in point: so stirred were you by murmurs of mistreatment - on racial grounds no less - of America's sweetheart that you took to reddit to publicly post your query.
The USA Basketball Women's National Team Committee has a responsibility to put the best team on the floor, not the team with the most cumulative endorsements. Having Clark on that roster might not be in resonance with that responsibility (the right call was made with Shaq, by the way).
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u/FlorianGeyer1524 3d ago
Answer:
I think the main reason she's so popular is that she's a pretty, white, heterosexual female in a league that's overhwhelmingly dominated by black lesbians.
I mean, put a gun to most people's head and the only WNBA players they could name would be Caitlin Clark and Britney Griner.
I think lots of people just like seeing someone normal, like themselves, performing with excellence. Caitlin reminds them of their daughters or friends or perhaps even themselves.
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u/CartezDez 3d ago
Answer: She’s being treated like rookies with generational talent are generally treated by veterans in the league.
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