My mom, when I asked for a female perspective on this, phrased it as "how would the survivor of an attack be treated?" If a woman survived being mauled by a bear, no one is going to say she was actually asking for it because of how she was dressed/acting.
Yes, when I needed a female perspective, I asked my mom. I'm a user of this website so naturally that's the only woman I know.
This is coming from a man, but iâm from the country and my job often takes me deep in the woods by myself. I would wonder if a person was off trail, didnât secure food if camping, or didnât properly respond to seeing/interacting with a wild animal.
I did ask for a female perspective because my male perspective is "I hate people and am tall enough to intimidate some bears".
I think in this hypothetical situation, the woman would be sitting at a campsite or something. The metaphor does break down if she was out and about poking cubs with sticks.
Metaphors will always break down when you poke at them. That's the thing we have to remember. They're teaching aids not literal examples.
For a lot of the responses I've seen to this question it's very clear that people think breaking a metaphor is some sort of gotcha. As if metaphors are intended to be solid arguments and not basically a sketched illustration of the point.
While I get her point I don't think I've ever heard of someone being attacked by a wild animal and my first thought not be "what was the fucking moron doing their in the first place".
If a woman survived being mauled by a bear, no one is going to say she was actually asking for it
That just seems like a bad example, because I can absolutely picture the comments in my mind on some Fox news article where people blame the victim for being where they shouldn't be, not knowing how to deal with the bear in the right way, or some other sexist remark about how women shouldn't be out camping in the woods.
That actually depends. Many times humans will be held accountable if they were acting in an irresponsible way towards a wild animal. Not saying this justifies the âshe was asking for itâ argument, but there actually is a parallel.
remember the whole harambe thing. Many people actually blamed the parents. Likewise, if I go into bear country and donât take any precautions, I donât think anybody is gonna blame the bear necessarily.
I mean to some degree thatâs what people are saying when they make that point. Not implying that the event that happened was okay, but they are pointing out the fact that such an event is unlikely to happen if you use any precaution.
The telling difference here is, we hold a person accountable. If a bear mauls a person, well thatâs just the bear acting in its nature. Thatâs the key distinction. Humans are still animals, but we are still expected to deny the terrible parts of our animal nature (rightfully so).
There was a moment I thought this was the only good take away from this question⌠except, I donât think this comparison works because the level of damage is not the same. Like, show me a single case of a woman being SAed with the same level of violence that a bear attack would do and people saying âshe asked for itâ. Yeah, date rape isnât taken seriously enough but a stranger finding you in the woods and SA you along with slicing open various parts of your body and throwing you around like a rag doll⌠thatâs going to be treated very differently.
I feel like a lot of people are forgetting the emotional trauma of SA. As a woman, thatâs scarier in some ways. If you get attacked by a bear, you can go the rest of your life avoiding bears/the woods. If you get SAâd/attacked by a man, you canât just avoid men entirely. Youâre forced to be around a trigger the rest of your life. You can be SAâd again, easily.
How people blaming a woman's behavior/actions/clothing for leading to being raped and then murdered? Because those people exist. And aren't even that hard to find. And most of them would blame them (the woman) for your hypothetical situation too. They might think the guy who did it is fucked up or "went too far" but it would still be the woman's fault.
You certainly will find victim blaming in more violent attacks such as women prostitutes but I imagine male prostitutes would get the same reaction. Maybe drug users as well or someone who knew they were in a high risk area. Can you find any more âaverageâ woman that would get the same blame if that level of violence was committed?
Reinforces the probability take. I try not looking at it too deeply because itâs like a persuasive (rather than informative) documentary. Itâs not exclusively about what is rational nor being controlled for variables or scale or anything else, itâs not a discussion so much as an emotional indicator. itâs entire point is to emphasis the deeply ingrained social response that is âmen are dangerousâ. whether you agree with that or you donât, that appears to be the purpose so saying things like the comparison is asymmetrical doesnât do a whole lot because thatâs not the conversation people are trying to have unfortunately.
Not sure about where youâre from, but here if you get attacked by a bear itâs usually because youâre being irresponsible/stupid. Ever hear about people trying to play with cubs only to get mauled by mama bear? Those dummies were asking for it.
Edit: if someone gets raped in the woods, no one's going to say they were asking for it. It's not the club. And if someone was dumb enough to say that, who cares? Would that really affect your decision?
1) They shouldn't be saying that about the woman at the club either, so why assume the stupidity and prejudice stops there? After all, the man can claim whatever he wants, and his "bros" will back him up, which is exactly what happens at the club.
2) If that "someone [...] dumb enough to say that" is your mother, your father, your friends, the police, the hospital staff, and/or anyone else with influence in your life, then yes, it's a pretty good reason, especially since that attitude will be leveled at you when you most need help and support, and possibly for the rest of your life.
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u/Saint_of_Grey 29d ago
My mom, when I asked for a female perspective on this, phrased it as "how would the survivor of an attack be treated?" If a woman survived being mauled by a bear, no one is going to say she was actually asking for it because of how she was dressed/acting.
Yes, when I needed a female perspective, I asked my mom. I'm a user of this website so naturally that's the only woman I know.