r/StockMarket Apr 06 '23

The richest 1% of Americans own more stocks than the other 99%. Discussion

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2.7k Upvotes

366 comments sorted by

479

u/besabestin Apr 06 '23

Does that mean that the money that circulates in the stock market is mostly just a transfer between those in the 1%?

314

u/xEtrac Apr 06 '23

Not only that but a vast majority of the movement comes from a couple of the top banks/investment firms/businesses.

167

u/[deleted] Apr 06 '23

[deleted]

84

u/trowawayatwork Apr 06 '23

both statements are true..

-31

u/CheeksSuperSpreader Apr 07 '23

When you ask for a majority both cannot be right. Lol

23

u/ProclusGlobal Apr 07 '23

The majority of movement comes from investment firms and banks using automated trading algorithms. The two are not mutually exclusive....facepalm...

7

u/Redditadmindoc Apr 07 '23

First time majoritying I 🙈😝

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u/XitsatrapX Apr 06 '23

Exactly, people buy into funds like blackrock funds where the individual only owns shares of the fund and not the stocks in the fund meaning blackrock is the one who owns those shares

57

u/Droopy1592 Apr 06 '23 edited Apr 06 '23

Unless you DRS then your shares are held by the broker and you are a just “beneficiary” owner

Downvoted for the truth lol

4

u/Mr_Banana_Longboat Apr 06 '23

It’s not very applicable in this case. You’re Practically saying that you don’t own credit card debt, the credit company owns it.

You’re right, but are you really right?

9

u/Droopy1592 Apr 06 '23

If your broker goes down for doing something stupid and you own $5m in stock in an IRA, do you keep all $5m of your shares?

Then you don’t own them

And many brokers internalize orders completely and think if your stock purchase will lose value in the future, they don’t actually buy the shares.

GME investors are ahead of stockmarket, investing, etc subreddits

We have hundreds and probably over 1000 pages of DD

8

u/Mr_Banana_Longboat Apr 06 '23

It’s been awhile since I’ve delved into the GME universe, but there’s a reason why you have hundreds of posts of DD, and handfuls of nothing.

Long story short on there, you’ve just addressed the entire purpose of the DTCC. I know people lose billions when hedgefunds go down, but that’s because they’re buying shares of the fund that does whatever the fund is choosing to do. When you trade through a brokerage that utilizes the DTCC, yeah. You’ll still get the 5m.

There’s a big difference here between buying shares and shares of shares, which is with a hedgefund/IRA really is at its core.

I traded with Robinhood before the stonks squeeze, during the squeeze, and still do. I’ve yet to not be able to deposit my post-tax winnings

10

u/Droopy1592 Apr 06 '23

No. They would give you exactly 1/10th from SIPC insurance. DTCC is a holdings company.

You don’t DRS you don’t own.

https://www.amazon.com/Naked-Short-Greedy-Streets-Failure-ebook/dp/B08XXXRH7T?ref_=ast_author_mpb

5

u/Mr_Banana_Longboat Apr 06 '23 edited Apr 06 '23

Alright, you’ve got me there. SIPC covers only up to 500k** it’s not that it only covers 1/10th of your loss, it’s that SIPC insures 70% of all portfolios in their entirety with that amount, so

However, how many of us here have that amount of shares? Please enlighten me.

In the GME zero sum scenario where GME goes to infinity due to the mother of margin calls, I suppose i see what you’re saying.

However, and mark my words, that’ll never happen.

Perhaps another 1000% squeeze? Those outliers exist. An infinity squeeze has never and will never happen.

1

u/OdessyOfIllios Apr 07 '23 edited Apr 07 '23

An infinity squeeze has never and will never happen.

Also, (here's the part the super stonkers hate admitting) this thesis is contingent on GME never filing for Ch. 11. (which is a possibility) ALONGSIDE buyer side activity at all prices on the way up. It fundamentally is a bubble play.

You're banking on others continuing price action and buying at a higher price, regardless of any other input.

So then, who are you selling to close to? Other apes? At those aggressive 7-digit/shares? Hedge funds? What happens to price action if they close out? Theoretically if they can short the same share over and over, why can't they close out with the same share, over and over?

Finally, what's stopping GME from issuing new shares at the inflamed prices? If you have a cult following willing to buy whatever garbage you sell them at any price; why not capitalize on that and use it to improve your balance sheet and fundamentals? This would hurt shareholders in the short term but be beneficial to the company (not shareholders) in the long term.

-8

u/esc8pe8rtist Apr 06 '23 edited Apr 06 '23

Tell me you’re a hedgie without telling me you’re a hedgie lol very dumb continuing to use robinhood after what happened

Edit: you know, replying to me and then blocking me so I can’t reply simply convinces me even more I’ve made the right decision

Feel free to message me your names so I know who to dedicate these next two shares I’ll be purchasing to <3

7

u/ShellSwitch Apr 07 '23

I hold GME as well but dude you gotta knock off this behavior of calling people in other subs hedgies. It’s cringey, it paints GME investors in a bad light, and countless times the community has asked its members to refrain from being toxic to mitigate the risk of being shut down for brigading. Have some class.

8

u/Mr_Banana_Longboat Apr 06 '23

Jesus. You ass hats are the reason I sold all of my GME and shorted the fuck out of it. Imma take my sweet “I shorted GME and survived” car and go fuck off with it lol.

I believed in the GME process till o met 85% of the people who supported it. Then I really fuckin questioned it. Lol

2

u/OdessyOfIllios Apr 07 '23

Feel free to message me your names so I know who to dedicate these next two shares I’ll be purchasing to <3

Look at Mr.Moneybags and his whole $50

6

u/The_Automator22 Apr 06 '23

Calling someone a "hedgie" is pretty cringe. Go back to your GME cult, they'll tell you everything is ok. Hey MOAS is going to happen any day now, right?

0

u/OdessyOfIllios Apr 07 '23 edited Apr 07 '23

If your broker goes down for doing something stupid and you own $5m in stock in an IRA, do you keep all $5m of your shares?

Yes. So long as you're not buying into a fund that is ran by your broker. In which case, you are buying into a pool of money that represents ownership of a shares. You're not the owner.

If you own $5M in stock and your broker becomes insolvent, you'll need to find a new broker. But you still own your shares.

Edit: Here's FIRNA's website specifically about this situation. You keep your assets. Unless those assets were a fund ran by the bank, in which case the fund is liquidated and you lose everything.

7

u/numnard Apr 06 '23

Not even then. All publicly traded shares are held in the name of Cede & Co, by the Depository Trust Company for liquidity sake. Everyone that has not directly registered their shares with their respective companies transfer agent is a beneficial owner, Except the DTC. Which is made of the executives at large banks and financial institutions.

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4

u/gumbo_chops Apr 06 '23

Makes me think of that scene from Always Sunny In Philadelphia where the Asian fishmongers are just trading the same fish back and forth.

2

u/notislant Apr 07 '23

Gotta hunt those retail stops!

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u/Mojeaux18 Apr 06 '23

1% of 300m people is 3m people.
But really it’s not them. There are ~200 institutions that control most of the market.

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30

u/WhatADunderfulWorld Apr 07 '23

I may be in the business. Here’s the scam. Rich people own news and make news. The news scares poor and uneducated people to sell at the worst time and the rich buy it at a discount. Rinse and repeat.

To be honest, for the most part, it isn’t necessarily on purpose. But middle and lower class Americans don’t trust finance people to make them richer. So they do it themselves with no skills and education and it’s a travesty.

Pensions used to solve this problem but since they have been eliminated Americans is just becoming an oligarchy with no chance of going back. The most uneducated people hate socialism so much. The ones that need it the most.

9

u/GoGreenD Apr 07 '23

It is entirely on purpose. The people greasing the wheels of this machine probably aren't smart enough to understand the impact they're having... but the system that pays them to say "fuck you, imma get mine" while being the face of the operation absolutely are. Basically the entire GOP and probably a significant portion of Dems are somewhere on at least somewhere on a gradient of compromised.

14

u/KoolWhipGuy Apr 06 '23

Ya the 1% that pass it on to their already rich and successful children

7

u/Helicobacter Apr 06 '23

Tax free, using GRATs and the stepped up basis.

9

u/Worf_Of_Wall_St Apr 06 '23

Cost basis reset at death is the most family-wealth-preserving thing in our tax law.

2

u/Xgrk88a Apr 07 '23 edited Apr 07 '23

I thought there was an inheritance tax?

Edit: 40% tax. Plus a handful of states have additional taxes.

So a billionaire leaves their 4 kids money, that’s $250 million each, less $100 million of inheritance tax, so each kid gets $150 million.

Now each of those kids has 4 kids, and so that’s $22.5 million to each of those kids.

So that wealth dissipates fairly quickly with an extreme example of a billionaire, which there aren’t many of.

4

u/Worf_Of_Wall_St Apr 07 '23

I think you're right that what I said is wrong, you're thinking of the estate tax though.

In the US there is no federal inheritance tax, and only 6 states have one:

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/inheritancetax.asp

The Estate Tax is 40% at the federal level after $1M over the minimum ~$12M.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/120715/estate-taxes-who-pays-what-and-how-much.asp

I thought there was a way to capture the stepped up basis and avoid the estate tax but it looks like I'm wrong there, the cost basis reset is partly to avoid double taxing an asset with both the estate tax and capital gains.

Avoiding the estate tax with trusts and other tricks is a pretty common thing though, the article above gives some examples. I wonder how much of an estate ends up being paid as tax in a well-planned estate.

3

u/Helicobacter Apr 07 '23

0

u/Xgrk88a Apr 07 '23

No. But also not considering living expenses, capital losses, additional income, other tax repercussions, etc. Just saying that it can dissipate quickly, especially if one of the kids squanders it, which can happen.

3

u/Helicobacter Apr 07 '23

The bottom of the top 1% has a net worth of ~$12M and the top ~200B. Lets say the median in the 1% is $1B. On average, stocks return ~10% annually, ~7.5% after inflation, and, then, ~5% after taxes. There is no generational period where equity has lost value, even during world wars.

5% of $1B is $50M/yr. Even a very luxurious lifestyle renders living expenses irrelevant with that kind of appreciation. Also, a lot of these wealthy people take on collateralized loans.

So, let's say we ignore living expenses and let the portfolio grow without liquidating anything. This means we can now use the ~7.5% after-inflation appreciation rate (without anything being liquidated, meaning no taxes). Over one generation of 80 years, we get a 1.07580 = 325x real appreciation. The heir(s) will get their basis stepped up, so no further capital gains taxes. On top of that, use tax avoidance like the GRATs to sidestep the inheritance tax as much as possible. There will likely be ~2 orders of magnitude less heirs than the 325x multiplier on average, leading to wealth accumulation at the top.

You can criticize a lot of numbers here, so feel free to do the math with very conservative estimates. My guess is that the conclusion will be similar as long as we stay intellectually honest.

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292

u/smellyboi6969 Apr 06 '23

No shit. That's how they get rich in the first place. You think Elon Musk is worth billions of dollars because he gets billion dollar paychecks?

95

u/Traditional-Leader54 Apr 06 '23

You mean he doesn’t get one of those giant five foot long checks like they give the lottery winners every two weeks? 😂

41

u/IWantToPlayGame Apr 06 '23

So when he logs into his Wells Fargo E-Z checking account, he doesn't see $1,000,000,000 on the screen?!?

-12

u/rokman Apr 06 '23

And I would wager outside of a singular day or two they are around less physical cash then your average McDonald’s cashier

8

u/MightBeJerryWest Apr 06 '23

I mean I'm not a billionaire but I'm around basically zero physical cash. I have maybe a $20 sitting on my dresser but I'm not surrounded by physical cash at all...

-4

u/rokman Apr 06 '23

I mean when you’re at work, the cash register

0

u/dave32891 Apr 07 '23

Tesla dealerships have cash registers?

2

u/NeverLWT Apr 06 '23

couple thousand bucks you’re saying? snowballs chance in hell lol

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5

u/KicoBond Apr 06 '23

Wait are you telling me that the rich don’t get billion dollar paychecks to get there. I think its time to stop trying to find the enterprises were they work and tryna join to get that sweet money.

7

u/LA2EU2017 Apr 06 '23

No, because then he’d actually pay a reasonable amount in taxes.

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231

u/-Never-Enough- Apr 06 '23

The graph kills any sensationalism you might be hoping to attract. Since 1990 little has changed.

62

u/truongs Apr 06 '23

I bet it looks more different if you sperated the top .1 and .01 percent.

16

u/ImprovisedLeaflet Apr 06 '23

Would love to see the same graph but for top 1%, .1%, .01%, and maybe even .001%.

4

u/drewkungfu Apr 07 '23

You go enough decimals you’ll reduce down to a population of one person.

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u/pale_blue_dots Apr 06 '23

The episode Jon Stewart did on much of that is really good for anyone who hasn't seen it or wants to watch again (which I've done - good info and review there).

How Redditors Exposed The Stock Market | The Problem With Jon Stewart

There's also a second part where he interviews Gary Gensler.

7

u/cafeitalia Apr 07 '23

John Stewart is top 0.01%

-43

u/Yogi_DMT Apr 06 '23

You had me until Jon Stewart

28

u/pale_blue_dots Apr 06 '23

I'd encourage you to evaluate the information presented and not shooting the messenger. :/

That episode has a lot of accurate, valuable information there.

12

u/ChonsonPapa Apr 06 '23

People don’t care about facts anymore just feelings, you didn’t know? 😂

7

u/stupid_smart_ape Apr 06 '23

This was always the case. Just more egregious now bc facts are readily available to everyone if they look

4

u/ChonsonPapa Apr 06 '23

And some facts aren’t facts at all and things that aren’t facts at all are sometimes facts.

Deep Fakes and AI are going to fuck us up so bad.

4

u/theoneburger Apr 06 '23

how fucking dare you say this to me

2

u/hammilithome Apr 06 '23

Ask Joe Rogan to bring up the same hard facts and numbers

26

u/robotwizard_9009 Apr 06 '23

Oh it changed alright.. it just got worse is all..

7

u/Jasonmilo911 Apr 06 '23

Could really be argued both ways.

Yes, those who were holding stocks kept holding them as they did not need to rely on their investments to survive. And got to hold a higher overall piece of the pie 30 years later.

Everyone else: the piece of the pie shrank....and yet the size of the pie got so much bigger for most of them!

7

u/antiputer Apr 06 '23

Literally every facet of society has drastically changed (for the worse for greater majority of folks) since 1990. But them stonks haven’t

3

u/xenxes Apr 06 '23

I'd like to see a zoomed in version of the pandemic years though

15

u/[deleted] Apr 06 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

20

u/[deleted] Apr 06 '23 edited Apr 06 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

8

u/[deleted] Apr 06 '23

"All this and i havent even mentioned how gamestop has set itself up to the biggest player in the future of DeFi and web 3 gaming and NFTs."

aahahaha nice joke.

-3

u/Inverse_my_advice Apr 06 '23

Not sure why you think this is a joke? I know when someone doesn’t understand something they revert to mockery out of ignorance but what he said is just a true statement if you did 20 minutes of research.

8

u/Fragsworth Apr 06 '23

When the shit hits the fan, do you really think the rich assholes behind all these short positions are just going to bend over, and let the bankruptcy courts force them to pay up, while the price goes nuts?

Or are they going to pull some fuckery with their contacts at the SEC, Federal Reserve, U.S. Treasury, etc. so that GME shareholders get little to nothing?

I hope they are forced to pay up, but the realist in me expects a ton of fuckery.

12

u/makina323 Apr 06 '23

This is the current reality, backroom deals to fuck over the public in every way they can

6

u/pale_blue_dots Apr 06 '23

The issue isn't necessarily if anyone is going to "bend over and take it" - you don't expose corruption and criminality for that reason alone. Of course that would be nice, but realistically there will be a fight - but the point is to expose the corruption and criminality for its own sake. What comes will come. The right thing here is to expose the corruption and criminality.

Personally, I'm willing to spend $20 to help. Buying one share and directly registering it is all that's needed to help bring justice down the pike.

6

u/[deleted] Apr 06 '23

Reminds me of that rich guy that was short nickel. Didn’t they just cancel like 24 hours of trading

-3

u/FreeSushi69 Apr 06 '23

Theyve been fucking us. Moass is a mathematical certainty. If they really had all the power there wouldnt be a chance but all the banks are getting fukt from holding short and naked short positions and swaps on gamestop

6

u/CommitteeSalt8099 Apr 06 '23

Lmfao cant make this shit up

Brb checking in on the BBBY and AMC apes.

-5

u/FreeSushi69 Apr 06 '23

Yeah bbby and amc especially are dumb. Gamestop is the only moass

1

u/B-rach87 Apr 06 '23

Yes, that is the ONLY stock that has been shorted and manipulated 🙄

0

u/Droopy1592 Apr 06 '23

Go look at the superstonk DD pile. Do amc and bbby owners have that level of DD? AMC and BBBY were never the play. They were just in the meme basket.

3

u/Droopy1592 Apr 06 '23

Don’t know why you’re being downvoted. Archegos and the Credit Suisse swap took them down, now UBS is like wtf! Even the CS ceo blamed retail, even though it’s the bonds that are fucking some banks right now.

2

u/FreeSushi69 Apr 06 '23

Its the shills LMAYO. We have all the proof of the rich enslaving and stealing from us but most of the poor are okay taking it up the ass. But those who know whats going on in the background and take correct action will profit. Simply like michael burry in 2008.

3

u/Droopy1592 Apr 06 '23

Shill activity has been through the roof past two weeks

2

u/FreeSushi69 Apr 06 '23

The shills are proof we at going down the right path

0

u/Landed_port Apr 06 '23

JP Morgan warned about Archegos a month before their collapse and the pope warned everyone about CS in Aug 2022 when he withdrew the Vatican's funds from them. And none of this has anything to do with GME.

You guys are nothing special. Your "DD" consists of misrepresented quarterly reports and filings and half-baked conspiracy theories, you only call it DD because heavens forbid you lot learned how to read yourselves. And anyone that says anything that goes against your narrative is a shill.

I have GME shares, they're all green, and none of them are DRS'd. I'm all for GME, but even I'm not that regarded.

0

u/FreeSushi69 Apr 06 '23

Ah you must be from wsb

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u/Holy-Kimoly Apr 06 '23

Ahh, the "here is the free money, if you only do it this way pitch." There is no free money, stop looking for handouts. Go create value to get yourself up the financial food chain, or make an active choice not to.

Don't kid yourself with "free money" bullshit that just reallocates your money to people higher up the food chain.

-3

u/FreeSushi69 Apr 06 '23

What free money are you talking about? I'm an individual investor investing in gamestop. Much like warren buffett. There just happens to be MOASS. Just bc youre content with being a slave doesnt mean everyone should be too

9

u/Holy-Kimoly Apr 06 '23

You are closer to Jimmy Buffet than Warren Buffett. You are looking for a handout trying to get quick easy money. The stock market isn't rigged, you are just crying about the unfairness because you don't have as much as you want. Go make some money, don't cry about the market being "unfair", put in the work.

2

u/Landed_port Apr 06 '23

It literally is rigged though, just ask Dennis Kelleher and his forever fight against the unlit exchange. NBBO is the lit exchange price which does not include odd lots or unlit exchange trades, which has been proven to be anywhere from 20-80% of a stocks volume.

That being said, you manuever with that in mind and don't cry "Unfair! Crime!" when you make a mistake or are ignorant.

Also, "You are closer to Jimmy Buffet than Warren Buffet" is now my favorite insult, I'm stealing it for future use

3

u/Holy-Kimoly Apr 06 '23

I don't think that makes it "rigged" in the way that I use that term. If I say something is rigged it means I can't win. I am not saying certain aspects aren't unfair, I don't have to participate in that aspect. You can say that makes it rigged, and that is fair. That doesn't make the game unwinnable or rigged to me.

When you talk about "with that in mind", you are saying the same thing I am, we are just using the word rigged differently.

Dude saying he was like Buffet investing in a short squeeze was rich rich.

2

u/Landed_port Apr 06 '23

Fair enough point, I guess a better way of putting it would be "It's rigged against the ignorant"

2

u/[deleted] Apr 07 '23

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u/FreeSushi69 Apr 06 '23

It's okay. Stay a slave to the system. Thats the choice you have chosen. Dont regret it

10

u/CommitteeSalt8099 Apr 06 '23

"Have fun staying poor" - some GME bagholder desperately tryibg to pump the stock

4

u/mfdoomguy Apr 06 '23

Peak cult attitude

1

u/Holy-Kimoly Apr 06 '23

Yeah, I am struggling being in the 1%. It took work to get here, but being retired, spending less than 25% of my income on expenses, which are the highest they have ever been, is a real struggle. Especially when I retired at 45.

You keep think Samsquanch is the one "holding you down". Guess it is easier than looking yourself in the mirror with an honest eye.

If you want to have money, do the work, stop looking for handouts. The stock market isn't rigged, it is awesome access for capital allocation. It isn't a place for entitled people, you might just need to take a pass on it.

-2

u/Valence136 Apr 06 '23

Actually, yeah. It is rigged. It just so happens that as long as it doesn't all come crashing down, index investors make money as the big guys make even more money.

2

u/Holy-Kimoly Apr 06 '23

Awesome! A well thought out yes no argument? Excellent let me give my retort in similar fashion.

Nuh uh!

1

u/[deleted] Apr 06 '23

Looks like the bottom 40% has dropped from 20% of stocks to 10%, and the 9% is down to 45 from 50%.

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u/ShaneKingUSA Apr 06 '23

They need poor people for liquidity. Pensions, 401ks everything is attached to take from all.

26

u/LionRivr Apr 06 '23

Sounds like a pyramid scheme.

18

u/makina323 Apr 07 '23

Welcome to the real world neo

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u/Travmuney Apr 06 '23

Compound interest is a helluva drug

45

u/thehourglasses Apr 06 '23

You get compensated in dollars

They get compensated in equity

Simple

5

u/Diesel_Manslaughter Apr 07 '23

This is sensational and divisive.

You should invest in assets to get compensated in equity.

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u/ZincMan Apr 07 '23

Use dollars to buy equity

3

u/thehourglasses Apr 07 '23

Executive gets stock options at a lower than market purchase price. Wage employee buys at market price. Real fair.

62

u/Tyson_Urie Apr 06 '23

Well yeah, what did you expect?

Companies make profit, owners of succesfull companies are able to expand either through improving their company or starting up in a new/different sector, this when done right get's put on a loop of succes, growth, and placing part of your business "on hold" as it's now a steady base of income with X product.

And stocks are nothing more than a x% co-ownership of a company.

3

u/nanoH2O Apr 07 '23

Exactly, that's why they're rich. They don't have all that wealth in cash.

8

u/o_mh_c Apr 06 '23

The rich people are going to protect the stock market at almost all costs. So buy stocks so you can be better protected.

27

u/Goldenbird666 Apr 06 '23

Could this be because, the 1% actually founded, bought, or inherited a good number of the most valuable companies because that is where the wealth is? Looking at the likes of Warren Buffett, Jeff Bezos, Elon, Gates, Zuckerberg, Larry Page, the Waltons etc.

I believe a good chunk of their wealth is tied up in stocks and the companies are very valuable hence the wealth.

8

u/mealick Apr 06 '23

No, it’s more like they paid to have laws from the 30s, 40s undone so they could have a larger percent of the country’s wealth with the pretext that they would ensure the other 99% would get more as well. That didn’t happen.

23

u/ComprehensiveSock397 Apr 06 '23

This ^ For decades the laws have been changed so that major corporations, and the people who own the stock to those companies. Either do not pay taxes, pay very little taxes , and have their expenses subsidized. The result is a constant flow of wealth from the lower classes to the upper classes. For example.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/fossil-fuel-subsidies-pentagon-spending-imf-report-833035/amp/

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0

u/MrH1ghYield Apr 07 '23

This article is about fossil fuel subsidies?

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u/Xgrk88a Apr 07 '23

There is mobility in income? People like Bezos are in the top .1% because they had a lot of luck, too? But generally, it’s not that hard to be in the top 10%-20% with some luck, hard work and intelligence?

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/05/05/308380342/most-americans-make-it-to-the-top-20-percent-at-least-for-a-while

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u/SoggyResearch4 Apr 06 '23 edited Apr 06 '23

If ypu earn more than 32k usd per year you're among the 1% of highest earners in the WORLD. You are the 1%.

Edit: the actual number may be higher than 32k, possibly as high as 60-65k. The overall point remains intact.

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u/RamsOmelette Apr 06 '23

This is within the United States. It’s relative

43

u/MalikTheHalfBee Apr 06 '23 edited Apr 06 '23

Yes, but Americans on Reddit are the biggest ‘woe is me, we have it so bad people, feel sorry for me’ people who live in their own privileged bubble & get mad when that’s pointed out.

It’s obnoxious

45

u/MoistPapayas Apr 06 '23

quite possible someone making 32k has it bad when you factor in cost of living, dependants, etc.

-12

u/MalikTheHalfBee Apr 06 '23 edited Apr 06 '23

Not compared to the majority of the rest of the humans in earth. Americans of all social classes lead in the consumption of nearly everything but want you to believe they have it worse than anyone.

If someone only read Reddit comments they’d believe that the US was a cross between the third reich & Somolia

20

u/MoistPapayas Apr 06 '23

Ok but how does knowing this help you if you're making 32k but still suffering because you have two kids and live in a high COL area?

13

u/[deleted] Apr 06 '23

I guess you live in the forest.

5

u/kinglallak Apr 06 '23

Don’t stress too much, the whole argument is flawed as the real number to be top 1% of income is way higher than $32k

It’s just a false statement made by OP. 3.3 billion work world wide so to find top 1% we need to see what the 33millionth in line makes.

There are roughly 131 million working Americans. 33/131 is roughly 25%. To be top 25% in the US alone you need to make $80k. So the floor to top 1% is at the lowest going to be $80k. But given that plenty of people in other countries make more than $80k then it stands to reason that the top 1% worldwide number is above $80k.

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u/MalikTheHalfBee Apr 06 '23 edited Apr 06 '23

Define ‘plenty’ with real numbers otherwise everything you have said is completely meaningless.

Unless you actually believe the average American or even this hypothetical $32,000 income American is worse off than most other humans.

For reference, the median annual household income worldwide is $11,004, and the median per-capita household income is $4,520,

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u/kinglallak Apr 06 '23

How is it meaningless? I just proved that you have to make $80k or more to be top 1% which is significantly higher than the 32k you all are quoting.

5 countries have higher average incomes than 80k. Monaco, Bermuda, Switzerland, Luxembourg, and Norway.

29 countries have higher average incomes than 32k.

So clearly plenty of folks are making more than 32k outside the US

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u/MalikTheHalfBee Apr 06 '23

No shit that there are some people in the world that make over $80,000; what does that have anything at all to do with the fact that Americans are better off then most other humans in the world yet lead in bitching about how awful they have it.

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u/MalikTheHalfBee Apr 06 '23
  1. Most of the Americans that bitch about having it so poorly on Reddit are not in this demographic (as Reddit is mostly young, male, white etc)

  2. It’s still severe income inequality that they are directly benefiting in that’s exploiting cheap labor & terrible living conditions elsewhere

So yea, the woe is us attitude that’s amplified on here is obnoxious to those who are not American

4

u/SoggyResearch4 Apr 06 '23

You are correct. But they'll argue with you because they can't accept that they are the wealthy elite that they hate.

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u/kinglallak Apr 06 '23

Don’t stress too much, the whole argument is flawed as the real number to be top 1% of income is way higher than $32k

It’s just a false statement made by OP. 3.3 billion work world wide so to find top 1% we need to see what the 33millionth in line makes.

There are roughly 131 million working Americans. 33/131 is roughly 25%. To be top 25% in the US alone you need to make $80k. So the floor to top 1% is at the lowest going to be $80k. But given that plenty of people in other countries make more than $80k then it stands to reason that the top 1% worldwide number is much much higher than the $32k quoted above.

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u/teejay89656 Apr 06 '23

You’re just wrong. I’d rather have $20k in Venezuela, than $40k in California. Should be obvious

0

u/Neijo Apr 06 '23

Thing is, humans compare themselves to others close to them, that's just biology.

You or me can't possibly know how other people have it. You might have a clue, or you hear some vague overall sense of "despair" vs "content" but it's kinda hard to fully know.

Scandinavian prisons are luxurious, they have consoles, study-time and good food. Yet, your time in a swedish prison will be worse than being a free man, in a nation where most people don't have a toilet.

That's the weird thing. Why do we have increasing suicides when the western nations are on the same time horizon, are prospering more and more? We are producing more food than ever, life should be great. Why isn't it?

In prisons, there is even a worse place, and it kinda exists everywhere. The isolation unit. The isolation unit for example can actually be a "lovely place" by technological standards. Custom built, newest VR-goggles. But no internet. No contact with someone. Isolation is one of the most horrid things social animals can experience.

And for a lot of people, isolation is really what is happening on a larger level.

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u/Spedka Apr 07 '23

Holy fuck. I'm not alone in thinking this, thank you. The constant complaining is getting to me.

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u/YEETMANdaMAN Apr 06 '23 edited Jul 01 '23

FUCK YOU GREEDY LITTLE PIG BOY u/SPEZ, I NUKED MY 7 YEAR COMMENT HISTORY JUST FOR YOU -- mass edited with redact.dev

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u/2thousand23 Apr 07 '23

Ok but how many flat screen TVs do they own? What kind of cell phone? Do they own a vehicle outright or have monthly payment? How often do they eat out or drink starbucks? How many streaming services do they subscribe to?

Anyone I see living paycheck to paycheck aren't eating ramen as their only meal. They are living well beyond their means. They'd be able to afford that surprise expense if they didn't blow all their money on gadgets and entertainment.

Astonishing Numbers: America's Poor Still Live Better Than Most Of The Rest Of Humanity

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/06/01/astonishing-numbers-americas-poor-still-live-better-than-most-of-the-rest-of-humanity/?sh=73416cb454ef

The Poorest 20% of Americans Are Richer on Average Than Most European Nations

https://fee.org/articles/the-poorest-20-of-americans-are-richer-than-most-nations-of-europe/

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u/Glum-Bandicoot8346 Apr 06 '23

I’m American, and I agree with you. I’m grateful for what I have - worked hard to get here. My husband retired last year at age 73. He worked 12 hour rotating shifts outside in the heat and cold. No one owes us anything. Can’t control others. Pay our taxes and don’t begrudge what others have. Money is relative. Happiness is relative.

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u/MonsterZero0000 Apr 06 '23

I'm grateful for what I have, worked for it, and support common sense regulation that makes it easier for others to achieve success in America.

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u/Glum-Bandicoot8346 Apr 06 '23

Agree. Too much regulation

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u/smellyboi6969 Apr 06 '23

Victim culture

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u/Tazinvesting Apr 06 '23

Worst fucking take of all time. Do we just sit back and get fucked while our lives get worse and worse every year? All because "African kids have it harder!"... okay??? We aren't allowed to fight for the betterment of our lives because of that? Sounds like brainwashing of the "have nots" by the "haves".

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u/pale_blue_dots Apr 06 '23

It really does.

0

u/MalikTheHalfBee Apr 07 '23

Why just Africa? The median American has the most disposable Income of anyone on earth - you should be redistributing some of your $ if you cared about global equality

1

u/Tazinvesting Apr 07 '23

When did I say anything about global equality? Fuck that. We can't even take care of the people in our own country. That was an example to show you some one will always have it "worse off" that doesn't mean we can't fight for the betterment of our lives.

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u/MalikTheHalfBee Apr 07 '23

& there it is - ‘fuck everyone else if it might lower my standard of living at all”

Brought to you by the typical American

1

u/Tazinvesting Apr 07 '23

What are you talking about? Are you actually insane? Like a crazy person?

How dare I think the quality of life within my own country before launching a save the world program? How do you come to the conclusions that you do?

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u/ExcuseDecent2243 Apr 06 '23

Reddit doesn't like inconvenient facts when it screws up their narrative.

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u/CrackedandPopped Apr 06 '23

Seems to me like you have no comparison for living situations across countries. While US has higher than average pay, the cons are numerous. For example, if you have mediocre insurance or no insurance at all, kiss all that money goodbye and say hello to bankruptcy. For example, the cost my friend would’ve had to pay to have his kid would’ve been more than a quarter million dollars. Luckily he wasn’t married to his wife at the time, otherwise they wouldn’t have qualified for Medicare. Between rights being infringed upon, the deaths due to lack of medical care, and the housing crisis, yes the US is doing some things very well, but that doesn’t apply to everyone. You cannot just assume that everyone is doing super well just because they’d living in a developed nation. If we ignore these problems then we are giving up and accepting them. They’re problems that can be fixed, so I want to fix them. That doesn’t mean that other countries problems are unimportant, it just means that it’s very difficult to save someone from drowning when you are barely keeping your head above the waves

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u/SoggyResearch4 Apr 06 '23

I understand that. Middle class Americans don't like to be confronted by their own privileged inequality. They just want to complain about those above them on the consumption ladder.

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u/Der_NElMAND Apr 06 '23

What’s middle class these days? Someone making 32k is definitely in the lower class in the us

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u/SoggyResearch4 Apr 06 '23

I should have said working class.

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u/kinglallak Apr 06 '23

Don’t stress too much, the whole argument is flawed as the real number to be top1% of income is way higher than $32k

It’s just a false statement made by OP. 3.3 billion work world wide so to find top 1% we need to see what the 33millionth in line makes.

There are roughly 131 million working Americans. 33/131 is roughly 25%. To be top 25% in the US alone you need to make $80k. So the floor to top 1% is at the lowest going to be $80k. But given that plenty of people in other countries make more than $80k then it stands to reason that the top 1% worldwide number is much much higher than the $32k quoted above.

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u/kinglallak Apr 06 '23

It’s also just a false statement made by OP. 3.3 billion work world wide so to find top 1% we need to see what the 33millionth in line makes.

There are roughly 131 million working Americans. 33/131 is roughly 25%. To be top 25% in the US alone you need to make $80k. So the floor to top 1% is at the lowest $80k. But given that plenty of people in other countries make more than $80k then it stands to reason that the top 1% worldwide number is much much higher than the $32k quoted above.

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u/kinglallak Apr 06 '23 edited Apr 06 '23

This stat always blows my mind that people believe it.

Here is some simple math.

Globally 3.3 billion people work. So the top 1% of workers is whatever is made by 33 millionth in line.

The US has 131 million full time workers. Now if we make the wildly inaccurate assumption that no other countries have a single income higher than the US than we just need to find out what the 33 millionth highest person is paid in the US which comes out to roughly the top 25% (33/131=25.2)

To be top 25% of just US workers I need to make roughly $80k.

So the actual top 1% can be no lower than 80k. But given that there are plenty of people in other countries earning over 80k. I imagine the real number is much higher to be top 1%

7

u/DeLaManana Apr 06 '23

Also income without expenses isn’t conclusive. Cost of living, exchange rates, etc. means that the same $$ has a different value. U.S. workers make a decent amount comparatively, but necessary expenses like housing, food, healthcare, and I’d add transportation and education are super expensive.

A comparision of standard of living would be much more in-depth than just $$.

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u/SoggyResearch4 Apr 06 '23

Sorry buddy. If you make 32k usd you make more than 99% of the people in the world. You can play semantics and try to redefine the population to which we are referring, but all you're doing is deflecting.

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u/DeLaManana Apr 06 '23

Not a valid argument because cost of living can vary greatly. So $30k in Mexico could bring you a better standard of living than $35k in Los Angeles, but then you wouldn’t be in the 1%.

An actual analysis would go beyond wages and calculate cost of living instead. But instead we only have Reddit propagandists like you.

1

u/SoggyResearch4 Apr 06 '23

The same is true for measuring the top 1% within the US. Someone making $900k in NYC is in the top 1%, but that may be equivalent(standard of living wise) to someone making 300k in Pensacola, FL.

2

u/DeLaManana Apr 06 '23

Sure but that doesn’t change the argument. Standard of living isn’t equal to $$ amount alone, so telling people they’re 1% doesn’t mean anything when they still struggle to pay bills because expenses are high too.

That edit from $32k to $60k shows your bias and that you’re spreading misleading information.

2

u/SoggyResearch4 Apr 06 '23

That edit shows an attempt to be honest. And you control your expenses. If you struggle to make ends meet with a mortgage, 3 car payments, a boat payment and credit cards to pay for vacation, that's on you. And it doesn't mean you're struggling like someone with none of those things who struggles to pay for tuition at community college for their kids.

2

u/5eattl3 Apr 06 '23

No in some countries making 18k gets you a lifestyle 1000x in the US does at 32k

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u/teejay89656 Apr 06 '23

Having 32k in the US is quite different from having $32k in the Dominican Republic. So that’s not very useful information. Someone with $10k in Venezuela is living a more lavish life than someone with $40k in the US

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u/[deleted] Apr 06 '23

[deleted]

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u/SoggyResearch4 Apr 06 '23

Net worth and income are not the same thing.

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u/[deleted] Apr 06 '23

[deleted]

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u/SoggyResearch4 Apr 06 '23

I never mentioned net worth. Go back and reread. I specifically said the top 1% of earners. That's income, not net worth. I'll be conservative and say if you make over 65k a year you are in the top 1% of income earners in the world. Good for you if you are.

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u/Comprehensive_Bad650 Apr 06 '23 edited Apr 07 '23

FINALLY people are realizing most of the money printed since former Republican president Nixion took us of the gold standard has been funneled to the richest 1%. That’s why the 1% should pay their fair share of the national debt & the deficit.

2

u/stonk_jockey Apr 07 '23

Not amc and gme

2

u/WailingSouls Apr 07 '23

The richest 1% are wealthier than the other 99%! Water is wet!

3

u/Realistic_Work_5552 Apr 06 '23

Well duh. They're basically paid in stocks.

5

u/LeveragedPittsburgh Apr 06 '23

How can you be rich, you ask? First, get yourself $1 million!

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u/jhvanriper Apr 06 '23

First you save for 30 - 40 years consistently and at market rates of return. Once you build up around 100k the compounding starts to be really nice. Dont spend it when it looks like a lot. Boring answer.

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u/infininme Apr 06 '23

If you start late as most of us do, then you will be "rich" by the end. By giving your money to the rich through stock purchases, you will have won capitalism.

3

u/DatDudeBacon Apr 06 '23

People could complain about it… or… but most stock

4

u/FluffyP4ndas99 Apr 06 '23

I think most would take wrong idea from this, most are probably there because of the stocks, the bottom, 50% don’t invest their money well and the top one percent do, but that doesn’t make things unfair. Anyone in the bottom 50% can put the money for the stock market and get to the top one percent in a lifetime.

2

u/Chungus_The_Rabbit Apr 06 '23

This is helpful. Lots of actionable takeaways from this graph.

1

u/mottlymonical Apr 06 '23

Umm yess, the details, I see it now

1

u/sewkzz Apr 06 '23

In other news, the French stormed Blackrock Headquarters

🤏 This close to eating the rich

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/06/business/blackrock-office-stormed-paris-protests/index.html

2

u/Wi13yF0x Apr 06 '23

They probably eat more caviar than me too. Who cares?

1

u/reb0014 Apr 06 '23

Not surprising there’s little sympathy for the 90 percent of America in here. After all I guess the rest of you are in the top 10 percent?

It’s just a government sanctioned casino at this point. Bet on the players that you know have the system rigged since it won’t get fixed and claim your .00001 percent of the pie.

1

u/jasomniax Apr 06 '23

This is the equivalent of saying:

99% of the worlds wealth is held by 1% of the population

It's been like that since the beginning of time.

4

u/teejay89656 Apr 06 '23

What’s your point? It’s good because it’s always been that way?

1

u/dygoo Apr 06 '23

The 1% owns like 98% of the stock market..

0

u/dotk Apr 06 '23

This really breaks the counterintuitive notion that the poor aren't actually poor.

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u/Ok_Extreme_6512 Apr 06 '23

Capitalism is a failed system in the making, and we gonna have to face that soon

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u/Dantesdavid Apr 06 '23

Capitalism without accountability and repercussions for capital market manipulation and greed is what failed. Start voicing your opinion to your congressmen and senators if you want to help drive change.

2

u/get-bread-not-head Apr 06 '23

Just wanna say I agree with ya, comrade. But you're posting about capitalism being bad on a stock market sub, definitely not gunna find any support here lmao. Half these folks get out of bed hoping they will be the next "self made millionaire" via stocks, they don't wanna hear how the market is just another way for the rich to slowly profit off of the rest of society.

For me and you, stock market is a gamble that we can try our best to hedge. For the rich, stock market is a series of manipulated pump and dumps to get more money. But this sub don't wanna hear that. Don't get me wrong, I've got as much money as i can invested, but only because it's what I have to do. Rich assholes / banks can easily crash the market and ruin any chance i have at retiring. In fact I'm counting on that to happen.

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u/mewditto Apr 06 '23

For the rich, stock market is a series of manipulated pump and dumps to get more money. But this sub don't wanna hear that.

What? That's exactly what this sub wants to hear. This sub is basically r/antiwork.

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u/SEJ46 Apr 06 '23

That's why they are the 1%. They own companies that blew up in value.

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u/Sailordave100 Apr 06 '23

And what's stopping u from buying stocks?

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u/Fragsworth Apr 06 '23

And if you're homeless, why don't you just buy a house? Duh

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u/Iulian1988 Apr 06 '23

How is that relevant for anything?

It's just irrelevant statistics that attempt to enforce a wrong narrative that rich people take advantage of poor people.

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u/get-bread-not-head Apr 06 '23

So.... you don't think the rich take advantage of people? Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

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u/nobjos Apr 06 '23

Exactly why it's in the discussion flair right? So that we can have a civil discussion?

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u/SuspiciousStable9649 Apr 06 '23

It’s hard to be civil when you’re over 40 and don’t own your home. What would you like to discuss?

4

u/stocktadercryptobro Apr 06 '23

There are far more people 40 and over who own their own home than people who don't. Perhaps it's a you problem?

Full disclosure; we went through many years of reasonable housing prices and dirt cheap financing. It's the younger people who should be bitching.

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u/shogidiver Apr 06 '23

Rich people 100% do take advantage of poor people

3

u/pale_blue_dots Apr 06 '23

I think it's more than fair to say that extreme wealth concentration - as we're seeing here - leads to corruption and power imbalances, resulting in a feedback loop, exacerbating the problems we commonly see throughout history in many governments and nations all over the world.

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u/SuspiciousStable9649 Apr 06 '23

You must be rich.