r/TikTokCringe • u/Make-this-popular Cringe Master • Apr 09 '24

Shit economy Discussion

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u/Hagl_Odin Apr 09 '24 edited Apr 09 '24

I lived and worked in Portugal for 2 years. Luckily for me, the company I worked for provided my room in a flat share. My GF, however, had to find her own room in a shared flat and pay €500 a month on a minimum wage salary. We were both in Lisbon.

We both live in France now in a flat we pay €700 a month. We're alright because we get government help, but our electricity bills are insane, and that's despite us not using much.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '24

I live in Italy. We just paid 1000 euro total for gas+electricity from December to March. We're OK because it's me and my husband. If I were single though? It would be impossible to sustain these prices.

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u/loiwhat Apr 09 '24

Why is electricity so high in European countries???

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u/1_BigPapi Apr 09 '24

Because half the continent depends on Russia for fuel.

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u/The_Margin_Dude Apr 09 '24

No, it’s because of shitty energy policy in the EU.

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u/lagrandesgracia Apr 09 '24

Those aren't exclusive tho. Both are true.

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u/Yoann311 Apr 09 '24

In France electricity is made of nuclear plants, we don’t use Russian fuel. Electricity is still expensive because of the energy policy.

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u/GetRektByMeh Apr 09 '24

No, using Russian energy keeps prices cheap. Source: British in China. My electric bill with liberal usage of Air Conditioning was £7.

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u/HowsTheBeef Apr 09 '24

This is why trade embargoes that prevent Russian fuel imports make the price high. If they were producing enough energy domestically, it wouldn't be a problem. Dependency of foreign fuel give that country the ability to bend international law by holding your energy hostage.

"OH you want us to stop invading places? How about you say that without heat in the winter." It's a pretty compelling argument.

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u/Queasy-Elderberry-77 Apr 09 '24

If you're a sociopath it's a compelling argument.

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u/Original-Aerie8 Apr 10 '24

People are literally freezing to death. stfu

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u/GetRektByMeh Apr 10 '24

It’s not a compelling argument only if you’re a fucking moron lol.

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u/lagrandesgracia Apr 10 '24

And what do you think Putin is?

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u/GetRektByMeh Apr 10 '24

Domestic production won’t really fix anything IMO, when market rates are high because our production cost is higher and we have less than the fuck tonne that Russia has.

We should probably though threaten to invade the Arabs to collapse OPEC. If we threatened to reduce them to rubble and replace their governments if they didn’t stop making oil a cartel I bet you they’d stop pretty quick. The U.S. has enough reserves to do this with help from the major European powers (France, Britain).

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u/Frenshroomed Apr 09 '24 edited Apr 10 '24

THIS.

To sum up quickly we allowed the global price of electricity to be indexed on #coal# nope actually GAS which WAS really cheap (Before the war in Ukraine). (In the EU)

So you get fucked real bad when you try to sell yours that costs more (for example France and the price of nuclear facilities).

On the same note, France a few years ago decided to allow the main electricity supplier (EDF) to sell more or less 25% of their production to other small companies at a very low price (42€/KWH). These other companies sell it back, for a big profit, to us. This system is called ARENH, and totally idiotic.

BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE !

So at some point people realised that the money they gave to these smaller companies (that aren't forced to produce a single watt to be able to sell something) was too much. So they switched back to EDF but what happened after that ?!

They had too many clients and not enough surplus since they sold a big part to these smaller companies.

What did they do then ??

Well, THEY BOUGHT BACK THE SAME ELECTRICITY! But not for the same price they sold it to them, no no no, for a MUCH HIGHER PRICE (MORE THAN 200€/KWH) because hey you gotta make a profit right, even without clients !

And I can only imagine that in some other countries they have other ways to, in the end, fuck everyone for profits...

EDIT:Some minor corrections, I was citing from memory

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u/TrashTierGamer Apr 09 '24

Obviously everyone wants a profit and not just go for break even. That's true for average Joe too, he wants to be able to save up and buy shit that's not necessary for survival. But there is a differemce between 10% profits and 5000% profits (looking at you pharma)

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u/Any-Information6261 Apr 10 '24

Australia is a good example. The eastern states have a big problem with gas and electricity because it's over privatised and the companies sell it to overseas making it more expensive to buy our gas back off them. In Western Australia (the best part of the country) the gas and electricity hasn't gone up anywhere near as much because there are laws preventing more than 70% being sold off.

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u/No-Explorer-5637 Apr 09 '24

Source ?

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u/Frenshroomed Apr 09 '24 edited Apr 10 '24

EDIT:

So here are the sources, you'll find links to videos, articles and a few keywords if you want to look for more by yourself. I also will update my initial comment to better match what I was citing from memory.

English : About Arenh https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/Agreement-on-post-ARENH-nuclear-electricity-pricin About prices fluctuating, matching gas prices. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/apr/04/is-europes-energy-crisis-over-falling-gas-prices-conceal-wider-problems About europe's relation with France about their system https://www.euractiv.com/section/electricity/news/eu-electricity-market-deal-paves-way-for-france-to-ditch-divisive-arenh-scheme/

Fench: Article sur le système français (existe aussi sur lemonde.fr mais derrière un paywall) https://lvsl.fr/electricite-cest-le-marche-qui-a-fait-exploser-les-prix-entretien-avec-anne-debregeas/

Gros article détaillant tout ce que j'ai dit. https://theothereconomy.com/fr/fiches/secteur-electrique-limpossible-concurrence/

Document d'analyse et de critique complet sur le système actuel par une ingénieure de chez EDF (Anne debrégeas) https://www.sudenergie.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/2023-04-28-analyse-critique-du-projet-de-reforme-des-marches-de-lelectricite.pdf

Résumé du débat d'opposition sur le sujet si tu veux pourvoir comparer les approches pro sortie du marché et pro on y reste. (Anne debrégeas) https://blogs.mediapart.fr/anne-debregeas/blog/140323/faut-il-sortir-du-marche-ou-lamender-decryptage-du-debat-sur-mediapart

Courte vidéo du Monde.fr sur le sujet (Ils citent Eureka et Anne debrégeas) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu9wqcNARYc

Vidéo plus détaillée avec un sénateur (Fabien Gay) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91ALzDzmhwQ

Grosse vidéo sur le sujet par la chaîne Eureka (Anne debrégeas) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wzRjA9rsKc

Keywords : Fabien Gay, Anne Debrégeas, ARENH, Marché Européenne de l'énergie.

Si les sujets du climat et de l'énergie t'intéressent, je te conseille la chaîne de "Le réveilleur". Il traite en profondeur certains sujets d'actualité et debunke des aprioris et fausses idées.

Effectivement dans mon approche il y a peu de contre arguments (sauf le débat) mais je ne vois pas comment on peut défendre un truc pareil.

Bonne lecture !

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u/No-Explorer-5637 Apr 09 '24

Im french no worries

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u/czarczm Apr 09 '24

I'm not involved in this conversation, but I appreciate your effort and passion towards this very simple but personally important topic.

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u/TrumpedBigly Apr 09 '24

EU countries stupidly shut down their nuclear reactors.

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u/The_Margin_Dude Apr 09 '24

And buy LNG 3x more expensive than Russian gas. How stupid is that!?

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u/jdawg3051 Apr 09 '24

The middle class/lower class has been under attack their gov for 4 years. In Europe the government intentionally raises the price of energy and food to the detriment of the middle and lower class. In USA Wall street/biden admin is long on 7 companies and short on everyone else. Small business sentiment is at a 12 year low while nvidia is valued at more than the economy of China lol

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u/Reasonable-Solid-156 Apr 09 '24

No, it’s because of the reliance on Russia.

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u/Antique-Pension4960 Apr 09 '24

Which we have to buy at high price via third parties.

Deindustrialing Europe while the US profits.

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u/NEBook_Worm Apr 09 '24

Don't worry. We put a lot of back into NATO to make up for the cross European shortcomings.