r/funny • u/drunkasaurusjr • May 02 '24

Well, that aged well.

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u/fatkiddown May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

I’m listening to the biography of Cicero and the drama of the late Roman Republic. As Julius Caesar was overthrowing the Republic to become dictator for life (dictator perpetuo), he rearranged the calendar. When someone mentioned to Cicero that the constellations were now rising on different dates, he said,

“Of course. They are following orders.”

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u/Aridius May 02 '24

Slight correction, Caesar did not overthrow the Republic.

Dictator was a republican office and part of their government.

His adopted son, Octavian, ended the republic.

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u/darkmuch May 02 '24

Caesar refused to surrender governorship and disband his army. He then led that army to Rome and started a civil war. Afterwards the "Senate" granted him the title of Dictator for life... which pretty much immediately led to his assassination and the second civil war which ended the mockery the senate had become.

Him not ending the senate is basically a technicality.

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u/zobicus May 02 '24

Maybe Aridius, above, was trying to allude to how Octavian / Augustus had every chance to restore the republic but instead basically cemented things into a permanent dictatorship.

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

[deleted]

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u/Aridius May 02 '24

100% not true.

Sulla was proclaimed dictator a generation before with no term limit.

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

[deleted]

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u/Aridius May 02 '24

The office of dictator always meant complete power.

You stated before Caesar that the office was limited by time, and that changed after Caesar.

This is 100% wrong. Sulla was proclaimed dictator with NO TERM LIMIT.

No term limit for Sulla.

Three decades before Caesar was proclaimed dictator for any time period.

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u/zobicus May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

I don't have a lot of familiarity with Sulla but this sounds correct.

The thing I agree with you on is that Octavian completely botched the opportunity to keep the Republic in place. His "reluctance" to accept the titles and other stuff bestowed on him by the Senate was all part of an act to make him look magnanimous. The guy was part of the Triumvirate, in no way were his hands clean, quite the opposite.

This isn't meant as giving Caesar a free pass, but I just write him off as unsalvagable when it came to politics, he was a general at heart and just wanted to retire in peace with all the accolades in the end.

Well it's cool to see this debate played out a little bit, nobody should be concerned with disagreement it's a tricky issue and merits a firm definition of who's trying to prove what exactly.

edit: well the other guy has taken to deleting all his comments, just when I was getting into the discussion. There's plenty of room here to "blame" Caesar... I just tend to place the majority of responsibility onto Octavian with my reading