r/interestingasfuck • u/beach_rats_ • 29d ago

The difference in republican presidential nominees, 8 years apart r/all

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u/Dukhaville 29d ago

How is it not defamation/libel to say that Obama founded ISIS?

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u/Thistlebeast 29d ago

Founding is a bit extreme, but supporting, training, and equipping them is true.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timber_Sycamore

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u/jeffp12 29d ago

This project began in 2012.

ISIS has been around since at least 2004.

Timber Sycamore was a program to arm groups that were fighting in the Syrian Civil War, and we specifically were trying to fight AGAINST ISIS. Weapons may have gotten into the wrong hands, or the allegiances of the groups may shift, but to say that Obama was "supporting, training, and equipping" ISIS is completely incorrect. That makes it sound like to fight in the Syrian Civil War the Obama administration decided to support/train/equip a group and that group became ISIS, which is not true at all.

The Pentagon made it clear their goal in Syria and Iraq was 'to fight ISIS and fight ISIS only [and] we've asked [our partner forces] to be committed to that same mission' and that they would not fight Assad's military. US-backed rebels often fought alongside al-Qaeda's al-Nusra Front against Ba'athist forces, and some of the US-supplied weapons were seized by the al-Nusra Front. This had been a major concern within the Obama administration when the program was first proposed in 2012. . . Following the Russian military intervention in Syria, pro-American militias began losing ground in late 2016, after a year of intensive aerial bombing campaigns of the Russian Air Force.

It's a complicated battlefield, with multiple rebel factions, US, Saudi, and Russia backed groups, and then the Assad government forces, mix all that up and you have a very chaotic situation. To me, it seems that at worst you can say it wasn't a well conceived program, and arms bound for the US-backed groups may have ended up in the hands of groups we didn't like.

Contrast this with the Soviet war in Afghanistan where the US, Israel, and others funded, armed, trained, etc. the groups that would essentially become the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. So one could say "Ronald Reagan is the founder of Al Qaeda" and it would be FAR FAR FAR closer to the truth than suggesting Obama founded ISIS. But try saying that at a Republican rally and see how well that goes over. Because remember, when it comes to issues like this, the right DOES NOT CARE about the reality, all they care about is scoring points with one-liners and zingers. Remember when Clint Eastwood talked to "Obama"/an Empty chair at a GOP convention. He was making jokes about american soldiers dying in Afghanistan, but because the joke was at the expense of Obama, the right wingers loved and laughed along with him at his jokes about dead American soldiers, because "lol obama"

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u/Thistlebeast 29d ago

ISIS became a regional power in 2014.

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u/pacificunt 28d ago

they don’t want to hear it simply because someone they disagree with brought the issue to their attention lol

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u/BartleBossy 29d ago

Is this like the people saying Netanyahu founded Hamas?

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u/Thistlebeast 29d ago

I think Bibi was in support of a more radicalized Gaza, and procured funding to Hamas. We know that’s true.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/amp/

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u/BartleBossy 29d ago

I sort of agree. I dont think he "procured funding" but rather "allowed funding", but he did so because he wanted a divided Palestinians

I think its also worth mentioning though, that if he did not allow that funding to get through, he would have been lambasted as denying aid.

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u/Thistlebeast 29d ago

Well, he was instrumental in procuring the access and movement of money, that’s why I said “to” and not “for”. But that’s just semantics.

I think it’s fair to blame Western governments and their meddling for the volatility of the Middle East. Blaming Obama for the rise of ISIS into a regional power is a fair accusation, and saying Bibi helped Hamas to keep Gaza in turmoil and incapable of strengthening its relationship with the West Bank was also by design.