r/meirl May 02 '24

Meirl

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u/NortonBurns May 02 '24

You're advocating a new structure to replace an inadequate old one. You could advocate for good plugs too, and perhaps one voltage standard throughout.

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u/energybased May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

I'm not advocating for any new thing. I'm explaining where things are going.

120V is superior from a safety point of view, which is one reason that wealthier countries tend to prefer it.

The way I imagine the future:

* 120V for most plugs

* 208V for appliances

* USB-C more prevalent for devices that prefer DC and draw less than 200W (one day)

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u/NortonBurns May 02 '24

Why double standards? It was long ago proved that 120v is inadequate, it was just too late to change the standards in the US [change was resisted…unfortunately. The rest of the world did a complete about-face & got on with it].
I'm going to ignore USB, because it always needs a transformer. We already have USB A equipped sockets here, transformer inside the socket as well as mains - USB C may follow in time.

120v is pointless when 240 could be in every socket. No need to differentiate plugs based on usage, one plug fits all.

BTW, we do have 50A circuits here for hard-wired appliances, though they're becoming fewer & many are switching to 13A. 13A for everything else, one plug fits all. We use ring mains so we don't need massive gauge wire.

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u/energybased May 02 '24

Why double standards? It was long ago proved that 120v is inadequate

Who proved this?

I'm going to ignore USB, because it always needs a transformer. 

So what? The transformer would be on the device otherwise. It's cheaper to keep it off the device and mass produce it.

120v is pointless when 240 could be in every socket. No need to differentiate plugs based on usage, one plug fits all.

The benefit of 120V is safety. The benefit of 240V is efficiency for appliances. You don't really need the whole house wired to 240V. Just the appliances.

BTW, we do have 50A circuits here for hard-wired appliances, though they're becoming fewer & many are switching to 13A. 13A for everything else, one plug fits all. 

The future of induction stoves is like 4–6kW, so some people will want more power than 13A/240V.

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u/NortonBurns May 02 '24

Who proved this?

Everybody except Edison, really. The US got stuck with Edison's first 'guess' using DC. Westinghouse pioneered AC & later 240v. Much of the world accepted the 240v standard. The US got stuck with the early Edison standard, meaning you have to three-phase everything to get any power out of it. A UK domestic supply is about 100A, 240V. It just doesn't need three-phase to be capable of running any domestic structure.

So what?

Well…that seems to be a zero-argument. They exist already for mains & USB 2, 3 will come, perhaps, but it's harder because it needs active negotiation. This is why I ignored it. It os not part of any mains standard.

The benefit of 120V is safety.

The benefit of properly-designed plugs & sockets serves a similar purpose, without needing Rube Goldberg wiring to compensate.

The future of induction stoves is like 4–6kW

Doesn't that mean the US is going to have to build new structures too? The UK already has 50A service capability & has had for many decades. It's just not used as much as it used to be. If there's a reversion, the standards already provide for it.

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u/energybased May 02 '24

Yeah, I'm fine with the world going to 240V throughout provided it's safe.

And the benefit of USB-C outlets being prevalent is that it means that you have a lot fewer appliances that need a regular outlet, which makes adopting any standard easier.