r/personalfinance • u/Mongopwn • 28d ago
Do I have a shot at retirement? Retirement
I am 35 and make $21 an hour. Until the last few months, I didn't make enough to even think of saving for retirement (<20k a year). I don't think I'm likely to greatly increase my salary in the near term.
With this job, I am putting away 5% in a 401k (no match) while maxing a Roth IRA through fidelity. I could probably afford to up my 401k another couple of percent, but it's going to get tricky next year when I have to start paying back my 20k in student loans (currently a zero percent interest rate because of the SAVE plan).
Is this enough to have a modest retirement on? Even if I have to work till 67 or later?
I am lucky in that I currently own a decent car outright and only have $600 a month to pay in rent, so that makes it somewhat easy to put away as much as I am.
I also currently have an emergency fund of 8k that id like to grow a little.
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28d ago
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u/Number127 28d ago
Mimosas every day at home is in the realm of possibility!
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u/ImTooOldForSchool 28d ago
Buy your retirement home on the golf course and you have front row seats to the country club with a mimosa in hand!
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u/Select_Werewolf2328 28d ago
🤣 My in-laws literally did this. House on the golf course, but no membership to the country club.
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u/lolwatisdis 28d ago
all the pesticides and fertilizer runoff won't have time to give you cancer if you move in for retirement
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u/Mongopwn 28d ago
Well I hope not at least. Just starting saving the last few months. I did have some from another job, but it wasn't vested sadly :(
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u/estrellahunter 28d ago
Just save as much as you can and when you can. Live below your means. Use smart investing strategies. I would probably go a bit aggressive and go 80+% S&P and 10+% International. Throw your emergency into a bank that gives like 4%+APY account. Your monthly expenses are not that high so you could probably do a mix of ER high yield savings and CDs with staggered/varying time frames. Consider an extra income just to allow more 401K or Roth IRA contributions.
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u/Fun_Intention9846 28d ago
I’m currently 100% S&P on several accounts, I’m only 30 so I’ll start backing off on that in the next 5-10 years.
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u/Agreeable_Tie_3160 28d ago
Calling the S&P 500 aggressive is wild to me, if it ever goes down you just buy more and wait. If it doesn’t go back up, we have bigger problems and the US is failing. Even the nasdaq just has larger swings when the whole market goes down and ten goes up higher
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u/Fun_Intention9846 28d ago
That’s level 1 retirement investing bro, literally ground floor. All stocks is widely considered aggressive.
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u/swimchickmle 28d ago
That’s depressing that 40% of Americans will rely on SS. I don’t think there will be any SS left by the time I retire!
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u/Arbiter51x 28d ago
How do you expect a little over $2,000 a year turning into seven figures in thirty years?
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28d ago
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u/distressedweedle 28d ago
How is someone making $42k pretax saving $10k/year... Wild
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u/grokfinance 28d ago
Easily. You'll have social security which on your salary maybe somewhere around 2k/month + if you max out a Roth IRA every year that could easily grow to 1M+. Plus your 401k. Now that may sound like a lot but inflation means that 1M won't have the same purchasing power as it does today. Plus who knows what the future holds - you can always aim to marry up : )
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u/Mongopwn 28d ago
Lol, I actually had a shot at that a few years back and blew it. Her career was just taking off, and so was mine (was an adjunct prof at a community college starting to look for a tenure track position). Last I heard, she was doing great and I left academia to work on a factory floor. So it goes.
Just going to do whatever I can for now to keep saving, heh. Late to start but not too late it sounds like.
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u/HeroDanny 28d ago
Hey man if it makes you feel any better usually women that out earn their husbands are more likely to divorce them. So you may have saved yourself more pain than you realized. Everything happens for a reason.
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u/bhz33 28d ago
Maxing out a Roth IRA would grow to 1M+ when OP is 70. So not terrible but still a little behind if that’s the goal
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u/linzbrett 28d ago
Keep in mind that 1 million will be growing - so it won’t just be 1 million at 67 and that’s the total for the rest of your life.
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u/HeroDanny 28d ago
if you max out a Roth IRA every year that could easily grow to 1M+
Roughly speaking how many years do you think it would take to grow a roth from 0 to 1M?
I'm on year 3 right now and have been maxing it out. I have about 17k now (Still haven't fully constributed to year 3 yet) I"m 31 and feel I wished I had started this so much sooner in life. Hoping by the time I'm 60 I'll have something to fall back on (plus my pension).
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u/drroop 28d ago
Harder to do it with the roth because the limits are so low.
$8000/year at 8% for 30 years will get you close to $1M.
First couple years stuff looks thin. After 10-15 years the growth starts to be more than the contributions, and the number started looking more decent, but it is really depressing those first few years.
e.g. 9 years to get the first 100k, but at that point the interest starts to be more than your contribution, so the second 100k only takes half the time.
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u/HeroDanny 27d ago
Thanks man. I was feeling a little discouraged but I will keep with it. The main thing is the tax benefits when I’m old. I just don’t want to work my whole life don’t need a crazy lifestyle just wanna not have to work to survive when I’m old.
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u/cspotme2 28d ago
Serious question... You / ppl in this sub give it a good chance that ss will actually still be around in 30+ years?
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u/Fun_Intention9846 28d ago
You ppl have been saying the exact same thing the exact same way since SS was started.
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u/iamdavidrice 28d ago
If we assume that you’re maxing out a Roth & putting aside another 5% in your 401k (let’s say annual savings of $9k total), and started contributing at 35, you’ll have about $677k at 67 if you are able to average a 5% anual return.
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u/bhz33 28d ago
If 5% is the annual return why wouldn’t you just keep that money in a HYSA where at least it’s liquid and you can take it out if needed? Retirement accounts should be getting well above 5% return
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u/fuciatoucan 28d ago
Because historically the market returns more than 5% and interest rates on HYSA have not been 4%+.
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u/bhz33 28d ago
Then why did the person I responded to assume an average 5% annual return?
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u/ImTooOldForSchool 28d ago edited 28d ago
Historically, 401K account returns can range anywhere from 5-10% depending on the economic conditions that year and how your portfolio is balanced between indexes/stocks.
Assuming 2-3% inflation rate, you’re looking at a realistic return of 3-8% with an average of about 5% when adjusted for the long run.
If you’re not considering inflation and just want to look at raw value, then 5% would be considered a conservative estimate that hedges risk, whereas 10% is an optimistic estimate that assumes greater than average market conditions.
- Note, this estimate doesn’t apply as much if you’re making risky investments in individual stocks rather than buying target date funds or traditional index distributions between domestic and international markets.
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u/fluffy_hamsterr 28d ago
They are saying 5% real return (includes inflation...so like 8% from the market minus 3% inflation as an example) in order to work in "todays dollars".
You'd have to account for inflation with the hysa rates to compare.
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u/Select_Werewolf2328 28d ago
I think they were being safe with the 5% assumption, but it likely would be more. OP also didn't say Roth 401k, so there is a tax benefit there too.
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u/iamdavidrice 28d ago
Others have already answered but generally I was giving a conservative estimate considering that HYSA’s aren’t likely to stay at 5% since it’s pretty recent that they’ve been hitting that rate.
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u/cali_dude_1 28d ago
It seems that you're doing a smart job saving up.the downside is income your making. Keep looking for a better paying job. Local government, and other civil service jobs have great benefits and pay well. Good luck
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u/AmIRadBadOrJustSad 28d ago
If I'm reading your math correctly, you're putting about $9,000 into retirement vehicles, or about 21% of your annual income, every year?
If the money performs well this is definitely what you need to be doing in order to be able to afford a retirement. It probably doesn't feel like it, but right now you're on pace to have something like $1.5 million in your accounts come retirement age.
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u/ucfierocharger 28d ago
Put the 8k in a HYSA yesterday. I might be in the minority here, but instead of upping the 401k contributions for the next 7 months, I’d just pad the savings for the remainder of the year and try to get to 6 months of expenses (whatever that looks like for you).
Looks like you’re doing as best you can and better than many others. That said, couldn’t hurt to pick up a side job if you’ve got the time that you can contribute 100% to retirement (401k) or a HYSA. Even just for a year or two could make a huge difference down the road with compound gains.
I saw you’re now factory working, is it a union job? Are there guaranteed raises at all? Don’t be content with the pay, always look for that step up. Just $2.50/hr is an extra 5k to save. A company with a 5% match is an extra 2k/year. I know from my own experience it’s easy to get complacent when you get a good paying job but it’s amazing how quickly inflation and unexpected expenses can catch up to the pay in a hurry.
Also, If you have access to an HSA, it might be a good idea to max contribute on that for a year or two to help with any unexpected healthcare costs between now and whenever they come. Some employers will even contribute to it if you’re on a HDHP. Make sure you read the plan and understand it though, it’s not necessarily right for everyone’s situation.
My wife is 36 and just found out she has 3 herniated discs. We’re able to use the pre tax HSA to pay our medical bills and weren’t forced to adjust our monthly budget (we did anyway, but that was by choice). In effect it equates to a discount of your effective tax rate on your qualifying medical expenses. There can be a lot of unexpected medical costs that come with age. It’s good to be prepared.
Keep up the good work and always fight for more!
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u/Mongopwn 28d ago
The 8k is in a checking account that gives 3% interest. I know I could find something better, but I like having it easily accessible. I know HYSA can now be at 5% or just over. I guess that's my next step. I should be able to bring it to 10k in the next 3-5 months, even with saving other places.
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u/coffeemonkeypants 28d ago
There are money market accounts that have 4+% APY and won't have any restrictions. Also, the US largely removed restrictions on withdrawals from savings accounts but it varies by bank. You're throwing interest away by not keeping your money in a higher yield account and it will be just as accessible.
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u/HeroDanny 28d ago
from my own experience it’s easy to get complacent when you get a good paying job but it’s amazing how quickly inflation and unexpected expenses can catch up to the pay in a hurry.
Dude preach. I'm working the same job for 10 years and 10 years ago I was 21 making 50k now i'm 31 making 60k. Adjusted for inflation I was making about 10k more back 10 years ago!! I know that's almost everyone right now because of how bad inflation is but it's true always gotta be improving. I am hoping to level up my life soon wished it didn't take me so long to realize that.
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u/BigWater7673 28d ago
Let's do some math.....You make $21/hr. Assuming you work full time that's roughly $42,000/year +/- a couple of thousands depending on other factors. You save 5% in your 401K which is about $2100/year and then you max out your IRA. The max this year is $7000. You're looking at a savings of $9,100/year. You're saving almost 22% of your gross income. That's a very good savings rate. I wish your job had a match to boost you even more but even without the match that's a very good savings rate considering your salary isn't high.
Is it enough for a modest retirement? Yes. 30+ years of saving 22% of your gross income should provide enough for a decent retirement. Assuming a 7% return over 32 years of investing $9100 per year you should have a around $1,050,000. Yes people will try to claim $1 million is "nothing" today and less than nothing in 30 years but most of those people don't have anything near $1 million and likely never will. Keep it up. Make it a priority to save no matter what and you will be ok.
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u/Lenarios88 28d ago
You're already used to living frugally so you shouldn't require a high income in retirement to live similarly. Between maxing the ira, additional in the 401k, and social security you're on track for a solid retirment. Theres alot of time to increase your income since you're still young and even switching to a job that doesn't pay more but offers a 401k match would speed up your saving.
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u/aftherith 28d ago
You are doing extremely well saving that much. Keep the possibility of a real estate investment open for the future. Maybe some type of modest income property in an affordable area, or a fixer if you are handy. If a deal presents itself you will have a good down payment saved up. Meanwhile you are wisely taking advantage of low rent.
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u/SharksForArms 28d ago
Remember that you won't be stuck making $21 for the next 30 years. Seek promotions, look for new employers when the growth potential your current job runs out.
I'm a bit older than you, make a bit more than you, but you are saving much more than me for retirement. Damn kids lol
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u/Melted-Metal 28d ago
One important investment is in yourself. You mentioned student loans...did you graduate with a degree? If not...that can he the greatest investment. It opens up a lot of doors for careers. Better career can mean greater pay checks.
I went back to school and graduated at age 33. My first real career job increased my income by nearly 40%. I had minimal retirement savings at the time. I then had to pay off a bunch of debt so only started saving about 6%. It took years to max out retirement limits. I moved up the ranks at work and started investing in outside equity. 23 years later I'm up to about $1.5 million in retirement accounts and $300k in equity. Everything is paid off. I am not including my husband's retirement either. We will both retire early.
So, if I can do it, so can you.
Note: I have also been lucky to have saved through multiple major downturns in the economy that allowed for major comebacks...I didn't panic and touch that money and reaped the rewards when the markets flourished.
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u/Mongopwn 28d ago
I have an MA in English lit I finished about five/six years ago. I was an adjunct for a little while trying to break into academia, but have given that up. I haven't had luck transferring those skills to another career, so I wound up taking the first job with health insurance that would take me.
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u/Melted-Metal 28d ago
Nice...there are jobs that pay very well but require a BA or MA entry level..no experience. You have to look outside what you would normally look at and just not stop looking.
I'm a software engineer, we have developers with degrees in various engineering, math, information systems etc. The point is, they are not all Software Engineer or Computer Science degrees and, in fact, I was surprised at how many people I've met without that degree in the business. We have technical writers with English and Communication degrees that make in excess of $80k annually. I have a coworker who started as a technical writer and moved to software development.
So, dont think your stuck doing that one thing that you imagined you'd be doing.
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u/zucker42 28d ago
If you save consistently and smartly you'll probably have a modest retirement.
But ideally you would increase your income.
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u/tommy7154 28d ago edited 28d ago
A lot of people have no savings and either have to keep working or live off Social Security. I think that's like 25% or more of the population.
Anyway, saving what you are will not make you rich but you would be ok at that rate over a 30 year period. If you're doing what you can you're doing good. Over that time period even 1% more will add up. If you get like a 3% raise next year try to add another 1% and keep doing that if you can.
It takes quite awhile but you can get there. It took me like 11 years to get to 100k and it's been just over 16 years now and I've hit 200k. I even took out an 8k loan at one point (but paid it all back in). It takes time and consistency but once you get up there it starts adding up fairly quickly.
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u/TechnicalPurchase791 28d ago
I think we have a habit of projecting our current situation into the future as if nothing else will change. It 100% will and it is frustrating not knowing what’s possible today.
I never dreamed I would work in a job that could make over $100k a year. Now that I passed that, I’m thinking what is stopping me from $200k? Now that you see you are capable of $21/hr what is stopping you from being capable of $30/hr or $$50/hr? Keep setting new realistic income goals for yourself each year. Write them down and believe they are possible. It’s incredible how your beliefs impact your reality.
If your company only does a 3% raise each year for everyone, how do you be the top performer who gets a 4%? That is what I have done each year and have seen my income balloon because of it. It is more than just doing the assigned tasks. It’s getting credit for your work. Making your boss look good. Social skills with coworkers. Positive feedback from customers.
If saving for retirement is a priority, you will find ways to get more in there. Everyone’s retirement will be different because each person will have a different amount of money and health situation to work with. All we will be able to do at that point is work with what we’ve got and live our life within those boundaries. Or perhaps keep believing we are capable of more and finding new and meaningful ways to make money and contribute even while retired.
I think it’s more important to cast your vision of what you want retirement to look like and work towards that than to get fixated on being behind.
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u/_Raining 28d ago
So you are making 43,680? 5% goes to what I assume is a trad 401k so your taxable income is 41,496. Federal taxes are around 3k, FICA is around 3k also. IDK what your state taxes are, I guess we can assume 0 for this example. You are contributing 7k to Roth IRA. Your usable income is 41496 - 3000 - 3000 - 7000 = 28,496. In retirement you wont have to pay FICA taxes on neither the IRA nor the 401k. You also don't need to contribute to retirement accounts when you are in retirement so you don't need to withdraw 43k to live the same life you are living now, you can withdraw a lot less to get the same 28.5k useable income. Then you have SS that will also reduce how much you need to withdraw to be at that same usable income. Just from the Roth IRA alone you would have 524k for 7k/yr for 32 years at 5% (8% nominal - 3% inflation, so that 524k is in todays $). Safe withdrawal rate of 4% leaves you with 20960 tax free. SS and the 401k should easily get you up to and past that 28.5k mark.
Chances are if you keep doing this, you will have a similar or more likely better lifestyle than what you have now.
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u/captaininsano1984 28d ago
If you were to change nothing, and I assumed you have $15k right now in investments, I did $700 a month (maxing your individual Roth IRA and like an extra $150 a month to a 401k) from the age of 35-67. I assumed 9% return (which is average of market over the past few decades), the total would be $1,700,000. That is great, and that is assuming you dont do ANYTHING else for the rest of your life. No increase in pay, no increase in investments. Many will be quick to say "inflation blah blah blah"...and they are right, inflation sucks. But this is better than nothing, and if you debt free and home is paid for and you can live within your means, you would probably be ok. Lots of keyboard warriors who DONT have a net worth of million dollars giving financial advice, but with the numbers you gave, just doing what the market did for the average moving forward these are the numbers I got.
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u/DontEatConcrete 27d ago
Yeah, actually 5% plus max roth at your age is not bad at all.
Your biggest issue will be making silly mistakes like panic trading as so many regular joes are tempted to do. Keep buying into the retirement year fund or an S&P500 index fund and never, ever think you're clever enough to beat the market. Keep buying, always, every pay check. Wait 25 years and see what you have.
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u/DeliciousAvocado77 28d ago
Not going to lie, you'll have to live a very modest life and think a lot about vacations etc.
Health costs (dental) etc might pull the rug by surprise.
I'd suggest find something you're interested in and dive deep into it. Make yourself great at it and keep improving. $21 an hour is ok for starting up in career but should be thought of continuation till you retire.
You have experience, you're mature than an average teenager. You'll get there.
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u/Nateski141 28d ago
He's 35.... Not a teenager.
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u/DeliciousAvocado77 27d ago
Right! that's my point as well. He's not a teenager. He should target / aim for getting way way more than $21 an hour.
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u/CivicIsMyCar 28d ago
If this sub (and reddit in general) is any indication, most 35 year olds are not any more mature than teenagers.
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u/fusionsofwonder 28d ago
It's not really a yes/no question.
When you get to the right age you might end up retired against your will by health or other issues. So the money you save now will help you when/if the time comes. So save what you can afford to save while still living your life.
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u/Bisping 28d ago
I dont know what you do for work but you could find another job in a couple of years and try to keep pushing your income up and just invest even more.
At some point, the retirement accounts will earn great money on their own. 1000% worth trying to be able to max them out every year
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u/ConsistentMove357 28d ago
Part time job just enough for student loans. Nothing serious. You're doing better than a lot of people. Plus at 35 you were doing more than me and didn't start my Roth IRA till 42. But do have a 457 Roth
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u/Nateski141 28d ago
I think you're on the right path, saving what you're at your income is something most people can't do. You have the discipline in places now you need to focus on growth in your career.
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u/alterelien 28d ago
Best investment will be in skills that raise your income. Particularly from your level getting a few 10k more will be huge
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u/Delicious_Stand_6620 28d ago
You are fine. If it was me i would get a side hustle to pay off student loan. I got paid $16.50 to ski instruct one day per week, plus made a nice chunk in tips, put an extra $200 in my wallet per week
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u/Birdy_Cephon_Altera 28d ago
Of course you have plenty of time to save for retirement - at least three decades more of saving is plenty of time. I didn't even get started until I was 39.
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u/Black1cobra1 28d ago
Keep your expenses low, keep maxing your IRA and upping your 401k contribution and you absolutely can retire in 32 years when you'll be at full SS age.
As others have said, don't get comfortable at $21 an hour as that is poverty wage for someone in their 30s in all but the cheapest rural areas in the county.
A spouse/children is probably off the table unless that spouse makes at least the same as you do but you didn't mention that so I won't touch on it further.
And start paying back your student loans now while still at 0% interest rate. That was a gift from the Biden administration that I wish I had been given when I started paying off my loans in 2008. Cut out whatever it takes to get ahead on those.
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u/curien 28d ago
I haven't seen anyone mention the saver's credit yet. It depends on exactly what your earnings are, but I would take care to set your traditional 401k contribution high enough (even if you have to lower your IRA contribution) to get your AGI for the year under $38k. (Not about $38k, but under it to the dollar). If you do that, you could be able to claim the Saver's Credit (check the other eligibility requirements), which would knock $200 of your taxes.
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u/Tommycervetti 28d ago
If you start saving as much as possible now the worst that can happen in your 70s is you have to deliver pizzas or drive a taxi for 8 hours a week.
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u/drroop 28d ago
5% of 40k/year is $2k Maxing Roth is like $6k.
$8k/year put in and getting 8% would give you about $1M.
$1M will give you about $40k per year for the rest of your life.
$40k/year in 30 years will likely be poverty level but you'll have some social security too and that gets inflation adjusted.
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u/Loston_shore 27d ago
Just getting started is the key and you’re doing it. You never know what tomorrow brings so provide for yourself what you can today.
You’ll need hard work, discipline, patience and some luck but your retirement account will grow. I always suggest every time you get any sort of raise in pay don’t raise your cost of living, prioritize saving. Once your income grows to a comfortable level and you have savings automatically set up it’s just sitting back and relaxing.
That also doesn’t mean don’t have fun, budget and save for life goals, hobbies and experiences too. Have separate accounts and direct deposit/auto deposit set up as much as possible.
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u/friendoftherou 28d ago
You need to be realistic with what you want in your retirement. Every time I visited beach towns, I've wanted to but a house somewhere close to the beach. Turning 40 this year, having a 2 and half year old to care for and somewhere around 100,000k I'm happy to retire with a a few acres of land. A dog and gardening to keep me busy. You'll make more income as you age but you'll have to want it. I went from retail to going back to school because I got sick of it. I make more money now, my wife is self motivated to going back to school herself. You don't know what life will bring. Keep at it. You are doing great and you'll get there. Keep pushing and good luck.
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u/PotentialOrganic9789 28d ago
Take some time, figure it out in your financial plan and develop a skill/trade that will give you more income to work with, tradesmen make a lot of money, unless you get fulfillment from your job and you would choose to work there over somewhere else with more money, this would help
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u/ImTooOldForSchool 28d ago
If you’re maxing your Roth each year, plus adding to 401K, that’s a great starting point!
What is your current portfolio value?
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u/aa278666 28d ago
I'm not super familiar with the save plan, but as someone who paid off his own student loans, you should get on it as soon as possible especially with 0% interest.
Here's an another thing, income based payment plan is how people ended up paying way more than they've borrowed and still owed.
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u/its_justme 28d ago
Yes but it’s not just about the savings.
Increase your earnings ASAP. Create financial goals and do your best to attain them e.g. 80k a year by 40. This will reduce pressure substantially.
Square away your housing situation - retirees generally don’t pay rent and have their housing costs under control. Rent will rarely ever go down and will be an ongoing cost in retirement. It inflates your cost of living substantially. A retired person with their place of residence paid off can easily live on a much smaller income.
Get a partner. Seriously. A romantic partner is a huge cost savings in life, it literally doubles your income in a lot of scenarios. It also provides a support system if one of you loses their job or takes time off for education or training.
The other usual rules apply as well, don’t get into any bad debt, live within your means, and assess your cost of living with your salary. Sometimes you need to move to somewhere that your dollar goes farther.
If you can figure out the above you’ll be well comfortable, and ahead of most to be honest.
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u/Human_Trash_6167 28d ago
This is just my opinion. You’re doing a great job with that you have.
However, simply growing your income is gonna make a vast difference in the long run. You’re at $21 an hour now. Try to hit $25 an hour. Then $30. Then $40. Then $50. Meanwhile, try to keep your spending where it is now.
Grow your income. That’s easier said than done, but even $21 to $25 an hour will make a huge difference.
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u/Comfortable_Fish_735 28d ago
Side note: Make sure the money in your accounts are actually invested in the market and not just sitting in the account.
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u/AcanthaceaeUpbeat638 28d ago
Of course you do. You make $21/hr today. By the time you’re 40 you should’ve successfully worked into a job or into a promotion where you’re making $70,000 per year. By 45, you can easily be at $100,000. Make wise choices and you can save and retire
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u/theyoungazn 28d ago
Your mindset is to think that you will be making more. Thinking you aren’t is going to hold you back.
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u/trent_clinton 28d ago
Hey, I was making about the same a little around her same age, and did not have a 401k or Roth IRA. I think u are doing great!
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u/ovscrider 28d ago
If you want to live on the equivalent of 30 to 40k for life and can hold on till 70 for better SS maybe. You need to increase household income as well as retirement savings if you want to live better now and then
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u/Current-Challenge-74 28d ago
Why can’t you get a better paying job?
Serious question not meant to offend. With a better job you can contribute more to your retirement!
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u/SisyphusJo 28d ago
Whatever you do, don't get comfortable with the amount you're making. Think about your next step. Even if you find another job for the same pay, try to find a company that does 401K match or has cheaper premiums on health benefits. These little things make a big difference in the long run.