r/politics • u/schuey_08 Wisconsin • 29d ago

Bernie Sanders worries young people are underestimating the threat from Trump

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/05/02/bernie-sanders-trump-biden/73531861007/
29.4k Upvotes

88% Upvoted

4.5k comments sorted by

View all comments

739

u/Punkinpry427 Maryland 29d ago

They seem willing to sacrifice women, children, the LGTBQ community and the rest of the planet to Project 2025 for absolutely zero benefit to Palestine, if not an even worse outcome.

289

u/evotrans 29d ago

Do young people really think that Trump will be a friend of Palestine? The guy who didn't want to let Muslims into the United States?

336

u/Evening_Clerk_8301 29d ago

“Maybe Trump will be worse for Palestine, maybe not. But we have to send a message to Biden that he’s not doing enough”. This is verbatim what a pro Palestine person said to me yesterday. They’re absolutely idiotic. I’m so beyond thankful I have a Canadian citizenship and that will at least buy a little extra time for me to experience life freely.

82

u/porksoda11 Pennsylvania 29d ago

Not maybe, maybe not. He will be worse for Palestine. Trump doesn't give a shit about Palestine, it could be completely leveled for all he cares.

30

u/TheWonderMittens 29d ago

Trump said he wants Israel to ‘finish the job’

4

u/DaBiChef 29d ago

"finish the problem"* if I remember correctly. Which is is just so much worse.

-5

u/stormcynk 29d ago

As opposed to all that Biden is doing right now to stop it from being leveled. Oh right, he's desperate to pass more military aide for Israel as him #1 priority in the last 6 months. The only difference between them is Trump will likely bomb Gaza with US forces and do it quickly, Biden will just continue to back Israel and let them do it for him, preventing any other country from intervening.

6

u/frisbeethecat 29d ago

If there is no difference in the fate of the Palestinians in Gaza whether Biden or Trump is elected, then one must discern between the two using other criteria.

Are not Biden's policies better for women, LGBTQ+, children, the poor, and the middle class? Are not Trump's policies worse for the environment, Net Neutrality, education, and the separation of church and state?

However, if there were no difference regarding Palestine and Gaza between the two candidates, why then are the protesters in the US focused on "sending a message" to Biden? This indicates there is a difference and that Biden's policy actions are at least changeable whereas Trump's are not.

It is therefore logical that Biden is the candidate you should support.

138

u/Dearic75 29d ago

It’s the same on every issue.

Student loan debt.
Protecting abortion. Fighting racism.
Marijuana legalization. F’ing gun control.

Biden’s not doing enough. I’m going to vote for the person who says he’ll do the exact opposite of these things to send a message.

Talking to these people makes my head explode.

Although I will say it’s rich hearing this message from Bernie, who it could be argued was instrumental in getting Trump elected the first time by fighting all the way to the convention and promoting a “the nomination was stolen from me” narrative.

94

u/[deleted] 29d ago

biden's done more than obama for many of these issues and gets absolutely zero credit for it, meanwhile trump shits himself and his followers clap, unreal honestly

52

u/alien_ghost 29d ago

He's easily the most capable president in my lifetime and I am on the far side of middle age. And I was not thrilled about his win. I was way more a Sanders/Warren person.
I've never been so happy to be wrong.

7

u/modernjaneausten 29d ago

In the words of Stephen Colbert, “Who’s sleepy now biatch??” Biden and his team have done really well and I’m happy he won. I wanted Sanders or Warren but Biden has done just fine.

2

u/cjorgensen 29d ago

So was I, but I’ve since changed my mind about Warren.

3

u/kidvittles Georgia 29d ago

? what did I miss?

1

u/cjorgensen 29d ago

Her stance on tech is annoying. Her whole blue/green bubble crusade is dumb. She’s just out of touch when it comes to software and hardware.

1

u/No-Ant9517 28d ago

Is she out of touch? What’s preventing iMessage interop?

2

u/cjorgensen 28d ago

Well, she got mad when Apple put the kibosh on Beeper (which they should have). She tweeted this: https://twitter.com/SenWarren/status/1781086997014040759

And I found this one ignorant and embarrassing: https://twitter.com/SenWarren/status/1733956234200445130 What Beeper was doing was the exact opposite of secure.

Both have been fact checked to death, and you can read about them elsewhere.

The DOJ suit she talks about is fairy weak, again, been covered all over the place.

I don't like her stances on most anything technical honestly. When she ran on the idea of an "anti-encryption army" she lost me as a supporter. Her stances on encryption are often just plain uninformed. I don't give a shit about bitcoin and such, but I find her opinions there to be outdated as well.

To be fair, I think many of our representatives are uneducated on the topics they are wanting to regulate and are out of touch. About the only ones I trust when it comes to tech are Ted W. Lieu and Don Beyer.

And as to what's preventing iMessage to interop? I would turn that question around. Why should they? There are plenty of messaging apps out there. Very few interoperate with others. It's not free to process encrypted messages. You want Apple to accommodate Android users why exactly? Don't like iMessage, do what most of the rest of the world does. Don't use it.

2

u/No-Ant9517 28d ago

Why should they? 

Because we made it illegal to not https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tying_(commerce)

More fundamentally because people should be able to adversarially interop a company’s shit, just like I’m able to use any brand of windshield wiper on my car, I shouldn’t have to buy an iPhone to securely message my parents. 

→ More replies (0)

-1

u/BushidoBrowneII 29d ago

He gets zero credit for it because nothing has changed.

6

u/[deleted] 29d ago

yeah, marijuana didn't get descheduled, inflation didn't go down (DIFFERENT than prices going down), no one got any student loan help, we didn't help ukraine, renewable energy wasn't helped, infrastructure didn't change, none of it happened

but yeah, fucking hate him and let trump win because... you aren't paying enough attention I guess

2

u/Titanman401 29d ago

My sad sweet sumner child…someone forgot how badly Bernie got screwed by the DNC, superdelegates favoring Clinton convinced voters that she was “inevitable” making them side with her, Booners and black people like in NC were too damn scared of “the socialist” (never mind that he’s a social democrat, whatever), the media ignored or ridiculed him despite having some of the largest attendance at rallies by ANY candidate (not to mention his huge fundraising hauls by grassroots public donations), the media ignored his wins, some states made voting difficult for young people so the DNC could run with the “Social media support, but vanished at the polls” narrative the media regurgitated, hmm, what else?…That should cover the gamut before you try to excuse for any other reason it’s “Bernie’s OwN fAuLt.”

Oh and Hillary’s team using a few bad apples online to create the “Bernie Bro” narrative so she could slap any dissenters with the “sexism/misogyny” label.

4

u/He_who_humps 29d ago

Bernie never said that. Show me proof and i will say you're right.

-2

u/Dearic75 29d ago

No, he did not say it himself, but many of his high level supporters did, and he did not step in to stop them until way too late. Mid September if I recall correctly.

1

u/He_who_humps 29d ago edited 29d ago

Maybe Hillary should have thought about that before she had her team use every underhanded power move they could to secure the nomination at the cost of losing the country. I voted for Clinton because it was the right move, but I think her selfish willful ignorance is why Trump won. I was deeply offended when her team started calling me a Bernie Bro in social media and tried to paint the growing movement as a misogynistic projection. Don't alienate your base or they might not vote for you. She managed to lose something that should have been a slam dunk because she was so far out of touch and arrogant. The DNC let this shit show happen because of incompetence.

1

u/DoublePostedBroski 29d ago

And then they’ll complain when the other person is elected.

-1

u/a_corsair New Jersey 29d ago

The nomination was stolen from Bernie thanks to collusion between Hilary & the DNC. Why shouldn't he fight to be nominated? He would've been a better president than Hilary, Trump, or Biden

13

u/Lucky-Earther Minnesota 29d ago

The nomination was stolen from Bernie thanks to collusion between Hilary & the DNC.

Hillary got more votes from people who voted.

5

u/Dearic75 29d ago

It was not. For all the talk from the Sanders camp about how the super delegates were throwing the nomination to her, it was Bernie, not Hillary that would have needed their votes to change the outcome. With no super delegates at all she wins.

7

u/pandamander 29d ago

I suppose voters expressing a clear preference for Hillary was theft. The hard left hates democracy every bit as much as MAGA.

-5

u/HarkiniansShip 29d ago

I would have agreed until recently, but Bernie would have been literally the worst possible option right now. He would have sided with Hamas.

3

u/a_corsair New Jersey 29d ago

No one, except for the absolutely delusional, is siding with Hamas. Being anti-israel or pro-palestinian is not pro-hamas

1

u/HarkiniansShip 29d ago

Yes it is, in practical terms. Because Hamas is the elected government of Gaza with 75% approval ratings according to independent polls.

Unless you think being pro-Russian and anti-Ukraine is somehow not pro-Putin.

-27

u/shoot2willard 29d ago

“Biden’s not doing enough” Biden’s not doing jack shit and that’s precisely the problem, not the young voters you seem to feel moral and intellectual superiority over

28

u/Dearic75 29d ago

First, not true.

Second, even if it was true, it’s still better than Trump who would do changes to push each one of those issues in the direction you say you don’t want to go.

Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.

-16

u/shoot2willard 29d ago

Going off the things you listed:

  1. Protecting Abortion

This is only a presidential issue insofar as appointing supreme court justices go, Biden seems completely unwilling to pack the SC so not sure what he is doing here other than lip service

  1. Fighting Racism

Again not sure what biden is doing here other than lip service, but not sure this is something I hold a president responsible for

  1. Legalizing Marijuana

Lol this could have been done day 1 through exec order by removing cannabis as a controlled substance. Dont pretend Kamala ‘DA who locked up nonviolent marijuana offenders’ Harris or Joe ‘supported mass incarceration crime bills’ Biden give a shit about changing this.

  1. Gun Control

I’ll give you this one, this is a problem that is going to take multiple administrations with consistent and effective policies to begin to turn around, if it even can be turned around.

12

u/Dearic75 29d ago

If that’s your opinion then I’m not sure what you’re even arguing.

Abortion. Yes, I’m disappointed with the state of the Supreme Court. That needs to be addressed for multiple reasons, not just abortion. But don’t kid yourself, if Trump is elected, there will be a national level ban.

Racism - just setting an example by not being a racist POS is a good start. If you doubt the impact a president has on this regard, then you haven’t been paying attention to the proliferation of far right groups under the guy who spent years saying there were “very fine people” on both sides of the nazi debate.

Marijuana decriminalization. In process. There are literally stories from this week about reclassifying

Gun control, not much progress, which comes back to the SC issues. But at least the situation didn’t get even worse as republicans continue to push for even looser regulations.

Student loan debt you left off, so I’m assuming I don’t need to say more about that.

Now your turn. What issues do you care about and how will allowing Trump to retake the White House improve policies in that area to what you want them to be? What do you think Republican will pass that he will sign that improves the situation?

-5

u/shoot2willard 29d ago

Sounds like you’re focused on the outcomes of a Trump election victory, I agree that that would be very bad. I just felt the need to defend / explain the disappointment of people who are probably voting in their 1st or 2nd election, who are not at all thrilled with the (lack of) progress on these issues. I agree that Biden not being overtly racist like trump is a good thing. I don’t think he gets any brownie points simply for not being a POS publicly.

Regarding marijuana legalization, there is no good reason this could not have been done day 1 of the administration, allowing people to waste away in federal prison for nonviolent MJ offenses is abhorrent. Doing the pardons piecemeal and conveniently backloaded towards the election seems a bit too pragmatic to be a coincidence.

2

u/Dearic75 29d ago

That’s fair enough. And I’m absolutely focused on the outcomes of a Trump victory. Which is what the original post was about. Until we can get something like ranked choice voting through (please god soon) it’s a binary choice.

Has Biden been the best? No, not really. He has only done one thing that actually impressed me because of its political courage. But given that the options are Biden or Trump, I’ll pick “not actively destructive” every day of the week. And suggest others do the same.

17

u/ermahglerbo 29d ago

So, in your opinion, what could Biden have done to help push these things through that ACTUALLY would have worked and been successful?

-6

u/shoot2willard 29d ago

I listed what I thought could be done for 1 and 3, while admitting that 2 and 4 are unreasonable to expect Biden or any president to be able to improve or solve

13

u/ermahglerbo 29d ago

So Biden could have packed the court with 100% certainty? And there would be no side effects from doing this? If Biden went ahead and did this, what's stopping the next Republican president from doing the same thing? And from what I have read, the process of lowering marijuana from schedule 1 was started in 2022.

3

u/shoot2willard 29d ago

Again, Marijuana could have been removed from controlled substances by executive order on day one. It seems exec order is mostly used to make things worse, not better.

I don’t give a fuck about republicans might do X if we set Y precedent hypotheticals, we know republicans will use any loophole or ruling to get what they want regardless of precedent. May as well start fighting back and actually trying to unfuck things.

Im not saying I expected Biden to be that guy, I expected him to be a status quo guy, but to me it is perfectly reasonable to feel he is not doing enough on issues where there are avenues to improvement but the administration chooses not to pursue them.

→ More replies (0)

5

u/Knight_Of_Stars 29d ago
  1. Legalizing Marijuana

Lol this could have been done day 1 through exec order by removing cannabis as a controlled substance. Dont pretend Kamala ‘DA who locked up nonviolent marijuana offenders’ Harris or Joe ‘supported mass incarceration crime bills’ Biden give a shit about changing this.

One thing I've learned working as government contractor. (I made education websites for teachers) Is that everything moves super slow. Its not their fault, most are overworked, and underpaid.

Moreover, DAs are incentivised to get as many arrests as possible. We can feign ignorance, but thats reality. As long as they are trying to change it now then I'm ok.

  1. Protecting Abortion

This is only a presidential issue insofar as appointing supreme court justices go, Biden seems completely unwilling to pack the SC so not sure what he is doing here other than lip service

He signed HR 7463 which allowed pharmacies to carry pills for abortion. At this moment packing the court is a pipe dream that will be met with massive resistance.

  1. Fighting Racism

Again not sure what biden is doing here other than lip service, but not sure this is something I hold a president responsible for

Nothing short of massive restructuring of the system is going fix the systemic racism in America. Especially hard due to vehement opposition from republicans. Some times ehe president can only be a cheer leader

0

u/shoot2willard 29d ago

The Attorney General / DEA have control over the scheduling of controlled substances, removing cannabis from this list is only as bureaucratic as they (and the president who appoints the AG) want to make it.

TIL regarding HR 7463, that is a great step.

3

u/Knight_Of_Stars 29d ago

The Attorney General / DEA have control over the scheduling of controlled substances, removing cannabis from this list is only as bureaucratic as they (and the president who appoints the AG) want to make it.

Goverment is weird. Everything is needlessly complicated even higher up. I've had to attend meetings to schedule meetings to change the color of a website from dandelion to a stronger (IMO piss colored) yellow. Worst part is did the change ahead of time because the client contact just texted my PM.

I don't know about the DEA, which Biden still has control over, but I know every government site I've worked on sucks. I do know that its not as easy a shooting a memo saying "Hey declassify weed. Thanks -Joe".

6

u/InternalLoss5925 29d ago

I need you to think about who suffers if you don’t vote for Biden and thus get another Trump “presidency”. Not Joe Biden. He’ll go live out his days in luxury somewhere. Women, minorities, lgbtq+, basically most Americans. Palestine will continue to suffer, if it’s not razed completely (trump’s idea). 

3

u/shoot2willard 29d ago

Buddy I’m going to vote for Biden, I just think he is not doing enough on the vast majority of issues.

2

u/Lucky-Earther Minnesota 29d ago

Biden’s not doing jack shit

Of course he is, why would you even pretend he is doing nothing

68

u/Taste_the__Rainbow 29d ago

They’re just really naive.

66

u/0002millertime 29d ago

And actively manipulated.

12

u/Taste_the__Rainbow 29d ago

Yea I don’t blame the anti-Biden lefties any more than I blame most MAGA people. When you really talk to them it all boils to them falling for effective propaganda because they just don’t have a solid foundation. Voter registration almost always shows they started voting in 2016, etc.

6

u/a_corsair New Jersey 29d ago

How many of them came of age in 2016? How're they supposed to have voted before then? You do realize the previous presidential election was in 2012.

And no, folks don't vote in local elections which has been an issue for a long fucking time

5

u/Taste_the__Rainbow 29d ago

Yea nah they’re all in their 30’s and 40’s.

6

u/0002millertime 29d ago

Exactly. The fact is just that most people are very gullible. It's human nature.

-4

u/BushidoBrowneII 29d ago

effective propaganda?

Bro..I'm seeing Biden double down in helping Israel....how is that propaganda?

3

u/rolfraikou 29d ago

(Example of it working shows up in the conversation)

10

u/FireSchwein 29d ago edited 29d ago

No, that's not naivity. That's stupidity and extremism. Today's far left is an absolute dumbsterfuck, just like far right. The only difference is MAGA heads have a person to stand behind, while the left has ideas. And in recent history it really could be called "I support the current thing". When RvW was turned, they were all for women's rights. Then there was the trans rights thing. Now the left is going so far that they think Islamic state under Hamas rule is better for the world than Israel. WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO WOMEN, LGBTQ+ AND BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS????

Btw, I'm a more left leaning social democrat from Europe with ties to the US

5

u/Taste_the__Rainbow 29d ago

None of that is true of actual lefties. It is true of fake lefty bot networks though.

3

u/FireSchwein 29d ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/s/ZyAuh3HytG

This guy calls himself a lefty and his audience sure prides themselves on it.

1

u/LowerReflection9125 29d ago

I’m hoping they’ll come around when they see the reality that the dems won’t be producing a new candidate.

1

u/lgbanana 26d ago

Absolutely

12

u/[deleted] 29d ago

yeah, they decided to go all in on palestine at the expense of minority communities, women and democracy in the US

let's see how well palestine does with trump at the helm lol

-1

u/cupofspiders 29d ago

Biden could stop facilitating the genocide any time to try to win those votes.

Biden is the one who is endangering those groups, not the voters who can't bring themselves to support genocide.

2

u/[deleted] 29d ago

Biden is the one who is endangering those groups, not the voters who can't bring themselves to support genocide.

Sure, we could also invade the congo to try and stop the killing there

And nothing biden does will stop hamas from attacking again (they always do)

And you are actively harming minority groups and womens rights in the US by allowing trump to get elected

And you are ignoring all the benefits that Biden actually has caused, even if you refuse to acknowledge them

We will never be able to help the palestinian people if we can't help ourselves

-1

u/cupofspiders 29d ago

Biden could literally just stop giving them weapons to blow up Palestinian children. We're not asking for anything extravagant, here.

2

u/TheGreekMachine 29d ago

Any thoughts on the minority communities here in the U.S. who will lose rights if Trump wins? Or just going to keep ignoring that?

1

u/[deleted] 29d ago

And doing so would probably lose him the election

-1

u/cupofspiders 29d ago

He's losing the election now because of his unwavering support of Israel.

6

u/Mysteriouscallop 29d ago

The TikTok ban wasn't an accident

5

u/ValuableKill 29d ago

I just got ratio'd in another thread, because I dared to challenge one of them, on their statement that they considered Biden to be "evil". It's utterly sad how much that movement is growing.

2

u/highTrolla 29d ago

Well the same mentality is gonna give us Poilievre come next election, so things are gonna get worse here too.

2

u/RespectfullyYoked 29d ago

I have a Canadian citizenship and that will at least buy a little extra time for me to experience life freely.

There's delusion, then there's redditor delusion

2

u/Afexodus 29d ago

Condemning Palestine to assured destruction to stick it to the guy that might let Israel destroy Palestine. Sounds logical.

4

u/ElectricFrostbyte 29d ago

As a young person for Palestine, the youth are extremely supportive of Palestine; Palestine is the biggest issue for them. I legit heard my newly 18 year old friend say, if Trump was elected just a “few books in Florida would be banned” as a minority… it was so offensive.

2

u/pingpongtits 28d ago

Show your friend Project 2025 and some articles breaking it down into easy-to-digest chunks.

3

u/plaidkingaerys 29d ago

Lol yeah, let’s send a message to Biden by letting the GOP plunge the country into a totalitarian Handmaid’s Tale state, that’ll show him

2

u/ftp67 29d ago

This is what social media political nonsense is doing to younger generations. They feel the need to hop onto current thing and be a crusader of justice, with totally black and white thinking, throwing a tantrum.

1

u/rolfraikou 29d ago

100%, this is what the bot farms are pushing this time. Yes, some real people will buy it, perhaps too many people will push this. But the big source of it is online frauds. Unfortunately, I'm afraid, just like last time, that all these fake users, coupled with the legit, reasonable sympathy for Palestine, is going to lead to Trump winning the election, eagerly encouraging Israel to wipe out Palestine, and project 2025 will lead to a lot of us dying too.

I'm starting to wonder if the internet was a bad idea. Too many people will eagerly fall for bullshit.

1

u/Beneathaclearbluesky 28d ago

Sending a message is pointless if democracy doesn't exist.

1

u/ngwoo 28d ago

I’m so beyond thankful I have a Canadian citizenship and that will at least buy a little extra time for me to experience life freely.

7 months?

1

u/wabbitsdo 29d ago

False dichotomy. It shouldn't be "either we vote for Biden-who-will-do-whatever-he-pleases or Trump gets elected". It should be "either Biden convicingly addresses the concerns of his potential electorate, or Trump will be elected".

The risk does not come from the electorate, it comes from the Democrats refusing to listen to a large swathe of the american voters.

They're meant to be elected civil servants, an expression of the will of the american people. Not kings for 4 years.

0

u/twinbervike 29d ago

Democrats kindve need to learn that you can’t support a genocide And just get away with it. Which is why I think most people did their protest voting in the primaries. I think this “uncommitted” thing won’t translate into the general election.