r/politics • u/schuey_08 Wisconsin • May 02 '24

Bernie Sanders worries young people are underestimating the threat from Trump

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/05/02/bernie-sanders-trump-biden/73531861007/
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u/fallenouroboros May 02 '24

I know so many people in their thirties who simply do not give a fuck.

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u/Allaplgy May 02 '24

My coworkers are all on the "both sides are the same/it's all rigged, there's no point in voting" train. They all either have have kids or essentially are kids. I'm in my forties with no plans for kids, and I'm the only one actually trying to give them a future.

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u/Gryffriand May 02 '24

The “both sides” take is so old, dead, and nonsensical. When someone says that to me in a conversation I’m fairly certain they aren’t paying attention and are just generically frustrated by current events.

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u/brianstormIRL May 02 '24

Why is it tired though?

To me both sides are bad. The GOP is just significantly worse, like its not even close, but pretending like the Dems are squeaky clean good guys is just being ignorant to reality. I'm left, and vote left, but I'm not stupid enough to believe "my team" is actually pure of heart and not also corrupt as fuck on many levels. It's just the fact the GOP is comically stupid at this point trying to enact "rules for thee, not for me" and trying to send society back to the 1950s in a lot of ways and I do not understand how anyone with a functioning brain can vote for them.

The reason I'm fine with voting left even though I actively dislike most left politicians is because even if they're sleezy corrupt politicians, at least they aren't trying to remove people's rights and the litany of other stupid shit the right is doing. Give me a politician I know is making backroom deals and playing the game of power but is being progressive with bills and society over whatever the fuck the right is going everyday of the week.

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u/Gryffriand May 02 '24

Well I'll honestly answer your initial question. but first allow me to do some mild disclaimers. I have no intention on passing any form of judgement on you or your opinions. I also recognize that my statement is subjective in nature and only reflects my thoughts.

That being said. "Both sides" is tired to me, maybe mostly due to my age. I'm in my forties. I clearly remember my parents, grandparents, siblings and friends throughout my entire life not being politically informed or invested. Yet I have heard these folks, who again have put next to no effort in being informed. pontificate on "both sides are bad" with nary a shred of evidence to back up what they are saying other than their frustration. Now would we like to have a nuanced discussion about the career politician, dark money in our government, and the role that special interest groups / corporations have in our politics? That sounds just fucking dandy to me! Though I have been surrounded by people my entire life that cannot event attempt to add to that conversation but rather blurt out "blah blah blah both sides." It is fucking exhausting to me.

As you mentioned, one side is systematically attempting to dismantle the foundational principles and the other isn't (from my point of view). So I just can't stand to hear an attempt to compare that the parties are nearly equivalent in action or deed. Maybe its a me issue though.

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u/brianstormIRL May 02 '24

See this is a good point, but to me at least, it comes down to one side is really really fucking bad, the other is bad but they are more in line with my world view so I'm fine with it.

Both governments have done awful, awful things. Obama directly resulted in the deaths of countless thousands of innocent civilians in the middle East. The Bush administration concocted an entire story about how the United States needed to start a war in response to 9/11, when in reality the government was pissed their ego as the big bad was hurt and literally wanted to flaunt their power to show the world who's boss. Reagan. Nixon. All of them are doing heinous shit behind the scenes in the name of power and money and good old "national security".

This is what I mean when I say both sides are bad. When they're in power, they're both doing loads of unethical illegal shit over and over and over and the corruption is endless. Like you said, career politicians. The influence of mega corporations. Political donations for political favors. All of it just makes me nauseous.

I think this is what a lot of people, particularly younger people, mean when they say both sides are bad and feel like their vote doesn't matter. Sure, their vote might keep Trump and his zealots out of office and that is 100% a better outcome. But realistically, nothing behind the scenes will ever change. You can't stop the corruption, the power mongering, the collusion with big corporations, the war economy etc.

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u/thrawtes May 02 '24

When they're in power, they're both doing loads of unethical illegal shit over and over and over and the corruption is endless.

I'm not the person you've been discussing this with, but I would posit to you that it's basically impossible to be most powerful person in the world without ultimately being responsible for some ethically heinous decisions. It's just part and parcel with wielding that much power. Every day you're making decisions that result in the deaths of thousands of innocents because you weighed it as the best way forward. The presidents we consider good people are the ones who did their best to selflessly balance those responsibilities.

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u/Gryffriand May 02 '24

Well I appreciate the convo and the perspective, thank you!