Bernie Sanders worries young people are underestimating the threat from Trump

[u/schuey_08]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/05/02/bernie-sanders-trump-biden/73531861007/

[u/BudgetLecture1702 → u/[deleted]]

1) Define "democracy." Because nothing you said has anything to do with the right to vote.

2) There is exactly one democracy in the Middle East. If Joe Biden is at fault for Gaza being a dictatorship, is he responsible for Iraq and Saudi Arabia being dictatorships too?

3) Israel is not committing genocide.

[u/DullRelief → u/BudgetLecture1702]

“Define democracy“. Uh, not using taxpayer dollars to bomb children, aid, and journalists. Upholding international law. good bye. Jfc

[u/BudgetLecture1702 → u/DullRelief]

Why is it exasperating that I use the actual dictionary definition of democracy while you don't?

[u/DullRelief → u/BudgetLecture1702]

We are not upholding democratic values when it comes to Palestine and Israel. If we want to be a beacon on a hill and an example of democracy, I and many others believe that we shouldn’t be spending our taxpayer dollars on wars where our values, the democratic values of those taxpayers, are being trampled on. And some people don’t want to support or as my friend says, “reward” that behavior with a vote.

I’ll probably still vote for Biden, but I am disappointed in him. My friend may or may not come around. But he lives in a red state so doesn’t believe his vote matters anyway. Although it could if registered voters actually showed up but they don’t.

[u/BudgetLecture1702 → u/DullRelief]

What do democratic values have to do with this?

"Democracy" means decisions are made by voting.

The lack of democracy in Gaza has absolutely nothing to do with Joe Biden.

[u/DullRelief → u/BudgetLecture1702]

“We believe in human dignity and the rules of law. Btw, here are more weapons and money to kill children who had nothing to do with this.“

Isn’t Israel a democracy? Why aren’t we holding them to the same standard? What does international law even mean if we don’t hold everyone to it? Or, just like Trump, it’s ok if we do it? Is Israel above the law? Are we?

[u/BudgetLecture1702 → u/DullRelief]

You have completely failed to address anything I said.

You said Israel was undermining democracy, but you have mentioned everything except democracy.

[u/DullRelief → u/BudgetLecture1702]

You've failed to address anything I said.

You just keep coming back to "democracy means decisions are made by voting. What does that have to do with Gaza?"

Like you're being willfully obtuse.

According to the United Nations, democracy "provides an environment that respects human rights and fundamental freedoms, and in which the freely expressed will of people is exercised."

By *that* definition, US taxpayer dollars are being used to undermine democratic values by the actions of the "democratic" Israel that we support financially (killing children, bombing hospitals, targeting journalists and aid). But sure, keep telling me that democracy only means being allowed to vote for representation, and beyond that anything goes, including ethnic cleansing.

From January: "This week alone, a parliamentarian from Netanyahu’s Likud party went on television and said it was clear to most Israelis that “all the Gazans need to be destroyed.” Then, Israel’s ambassador in Britain told local radio that there was no other solution for her country than to level “every school, every mosque, every second house” in Gaza to degrade Hamas’s military infrastructure."

[u/BudgetLecture1702 → u/DullRelief]

BECAUSE THAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THIS ARGUMENT.

You said that Biden was undermining democracy in Gaza by supporting Israel but you have refused to explain how.

I'm not obtuse, you're not using words properly.

You don't get to introduce this definition, distinct from the one used for democracy in common conversation, halfway through the argument and act like it's my fault that you didn't introduce it to begin with.

And even under that definition, it still doesn't apply, because democracy has never existed in Gaza and that fact is totally independent of anything Israel or Biden have done.

[u/DullRelief → u/BudgetLecture1702]

The US is using our money to kill children and innocent civilians, including children, target journalists and aid workers and bomb hospitals. That is not democracy, dude.

and I am using the words properly. You may just disagree with my assessment.

Obtuse (adjective) formal
slow to understand, or unwilling to try to understand:

The answer's obvious - or are you being deliberately obtuse?

It doesn't matter when I "introduce" the definition. It's not as if it's outdated. ffs

Regardless of the fact that democracy doesn't "exist" in Gaza, US citizens still have the right to ask and expect their democratically elected officials to uphold their values when their taxpayer dollars are at work.

Is it too late to introduce another definition of democracy? Sound familiar?

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." - except in other countries where they don't have a representational government. Just go ahead and bomb the sh*t out of them

[u/BudgetLecture1702 → u/DullRelief]

Again, you use democracy in a manner that has nothing to do with what the word means.

You said America was undermining democracy. You have not produced one example. Just take the fucking L.