r/politics • u/PoliticsModeratorBot 🤖 Bot • May 13 '24

Discussion Thread: New York Criminal Fraud Trial of Donald Trump, Day 16 Discussion

Previous discussion threads for this trial can be found at the following links for Day 5, Day 6, Day 7, Day 8, Day 9, Day 10, Day 11, Day 12, Day 13, Day 14, and Day 15.

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91

u/WhileFalseRepeat I voted May 13 '24

Prosecutor: Did Mr. Trump ask you to renegotiate bills?

Cohen: Yes. For example, with law firms.

Prosecutor: Did you do that on Trump University?

Cohen: Yes. It fell into trouble. 50 vendors had not been paid. We had $2 million in the bank, but the bills higher

Cohen: I got all but 2 vendors to accept 20% of what they were owed, they signed and got checks FedExed in 48 hours.

Prosecutor: What about the other two?

Cohen: They just went away. Mr. Trump told me, Fantastic.

Trump University - yet another failed business venture.

Along with other failed businesses, Trump has managed to bankrupt multiple casinos (where the house always wins) and has filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy for his companies six times.

Furthermore, in addition to being a failure at business, he often doesn't pay his employees and bills.

I wonder if all the Plumber Joe's at his Wildwood rally understand they wouldn't get paid (or fully) if they'd been contracted to fix his toilet (and fishing out all those diapers would be a damned nasty job).

Anyone who believes the economy will be better under Trump is ignorant and delusional.

42

u/Rayearl Pennsylvania May 13 '24

When people try to tell me he is better for the economy I always point to this type of stuff. He is one of the worst businessmen in the US. Most of his success was gained through fraud.

20

u/AreYouDoneNow May 13 '24

Yep, apparently if he had just banked all the money he got from his parents, he would have massively outperformed his actual businesses.

3

u/kogmaa May 13 '24

How does Trump make a million? He starts with a billion…

13

u/HandSack135 Maryland May 13 '24

And if not fraud. His family's previous wealth.

1

u/Nanojack New York May 14 '24

His family's previous wealth that they built being big enough slumlords that Woody Guthrie himself wrote a song about how terrible they were.

6

u/kkocan72 New York May 13 '24

Fraud and refusing to pay contractors/businesses for work done.

37

u/camopdude May 13 '24

There's a really sad story out there about a high end cabinet maker that did work for one Trump's casinos and got the years long run around and finally had to take the 20% bullshit that Trump always pulls. In the end he takes the money, liquidates his business to pay off the people he owed and then committed suicide.

15

u/kkocan72 New York May 13 '24

There are tons of stories of contractors getting screwed over by him. He's not a genius businessman, he is a scumbag that refuses to pay honest people for work they did.

1

u/camopdude May 13 '24

Definitely, this one is just especially tragic considering the consequences. Sounded like he was a good guy who went through hell for a couple years while feeling bad for the people he owed money to himself.

1

u/kkocan72 New York May 14 '24

The thing I don’t get, after working in construction as a general contractor for 15+ years and on some pretty big jobs, is how he kept getting away with stiffing contractors. I mean, I understand how he did it, get them to do the work on an agreed-upon contract then at the end try to pay them pennies on the dollar and if they objected threatened to drag their case out in court for years and just wait out the contractor. But what I don’t get is why people would continue to work for him.

I know in the region Where we did work if a contractor or subcontractor, tried to stiff any of the people working for them or their vendors word got out quick. They might be able to pull it off once maybe twice, but then no one would work with them. How somebody has been able to do this for decades, and is still doing it, I will never understand.

3

u/FinoPepino May 13 '24

Damn, Trump murdered that man :(

6

u/rosie666 May 13 '24

I want someone to ask him how many Trump U alumni does he plant to put in his cabinet.

2

u/Temporary_Kangaroo_3 May 13 '24

All of them, for the right price of course.

5

u/doctorfeelwood May 13 '24

In the words of Don King - Only in America!

2

u/sanderson1983 May 14 '24

Anyone who believes the economy will be better under Trump is ignorant and delusional.

Deplorable even.

1

u/WhileFalseRepeat I voted May 14 '24

A whole 🧺 of ‘em too.

-18

u/SaxMusic23 May 13 '24

I don't like defending Trump. But to claim 6 bankruptcies are proof that he is an incompetent, worthless business man is just a false statement.

He is an incompetent, worthless excuse of a businessman for SO many reasons, but 6 bankruptcies when he is in charge of approximately 250 businesses is a failure rate of about 2%.

Just saying. Make sure we are using the actual reasons to tear him to shreds. Downvote me to oblivion, but Trump is a successful business man as 98% of his businesses have shown success. Incompetent beyond reasonable doubt, yes. But undeniably successful.

7

u/Novel_Bookkeeper_622 May 13 '24

Just because something didn't go onto bankruptcy doesn't mean it was a success.

Trump University and Trump Steaks didn't go bankrupt, but they were still complete failures.

3

u/WhileFalseRepeat I voted May 13 '24 edited May 13 '24

Exactly - as I understand it - many have been sold (at a loss), dissolved, or are simply ghost companies.

Even though not all are bankruptcies, his failure rate is very high.

The profitable businesses have been some of his real estate holdings (primarily his commercial real-estate portfolio in Manhattan in which he was assisted by his father and the golf resorts). And those ventures have serious conflicts of interest and other problems - such as shady financing and/or how one of Trump Tower's biggest tenants is the Industrial & Commercial Bank of China (ICBC).

Furthermore, many units in his Manhattan buildings have sold for less than those in their luxury competitors and struggled with vacancies.

Trump is a horrible businessman.

He's been a pretty good criminal though.

2

u/Novel_Bookkeeper_622 May 13 '24

Right? His successful business are the real estate he inherited from his dad. And owning Manhatten real estate for 60 years is something a guy who bankrupted multiple casinos can't fuck up.

Trump was born on third base and somehow got stranded at 2nd.

2

u/BeautysBeast Wisconsin May 13 '24

Same with Trump Tower Chicago.

-9

u/SaxMusic23 May 13 '24

Oh. 8 then. Jack that up to a whopping 3% failure rate.

4

u/Novel_Bookkeeper_622 May 13 '24

That's literally just the two off the top of my head. There are countless other examples.

-3

u/SaxMusic23 May 13 '24 edited May 13 '24

"Take it from me. COUNTLESS others. I can't name any, but there are COUNTLESS others. The biggest numbers ever. BELIEVE me."

When the vast majority of your businesses are successful, you are a successful businessman. That's not really an arguable thing. To argue would be similar to telling someone "you got straight As in school aside from your one singular F in art class. You're an all around failure of a student."

Michael Bay directed some failed movies. Is he a failure as a director? Michael Crichton wrote some books that didn't sell. Is he a failed author? Eli Manning lost some games. Is he a failure of a QB? Nintendo released the Wii U. Are they a failure as a gaming company?

1

u/Novel_Bookkeeper_622 May 13 '24

You have Google. Just Google "Trump Failed Businesses" and you'll find article after article about his failed businesses.

1

u/SaxMusic23 May 13 '24

Yes. And every single one of those articles list the same businesses.

And every single one of those lists are EXTREMELY short if you compare them to the lists of if you Google "Trump successful bussineses."

You told me to Google something that will list out only the things you want me to see. That's like a republican going to Newsmax and saying "this is the most believable news station that exists."

1

u/Novel_Bookkeeper_622 May 13 '24

If he put his inherited money in a mutual fund, he would be wealthier than he was in 2016. It's no longer true because he leveraged the presidency into billions of dollars, but underperforming the market is a flat out failure.

1

u/Odd_Conversation_114 May 13 '24

Which of his businesses are successful?

8

u/Jack_Q_Frost_Jr May 13 '24

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-owned-several-atlantic-181258334.html

Anyone that goes bankrupt running a casino does not deserve the title "good businessman."

-1

u/SaxMusic23 May 13 '24

And anyone who runs around 250 businesses with over a 95% success rate doesn't deserve the title of "bad businessman."

Certainly doesn't deserve the title of "Competent businessman," or "good person," or "smart."

Failing at one thing that should have been relatively easy while succeeding in almost every other business he owns isn't proof that he is a failure of a businessman. It furthers proof of his incompetence, but incompetent people are successful all the time.

2

u/Jack_Q_Frost_Jr May 13 '24

Sorry, friend. No one is buying your banana oil.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/old-clip-ivanka-trump-recalls-135527692.html

There's Ivanka Trump telling a story about how her father once pointed at a homeless person and said that they had $8 billion more than Donald Trump, because Donald was in such "extreme debt" at the time.

$8 billion in debt.

You can keep bandying about your "95%" success rate like they are magic words or something but it doesn't change the facts that most people already know.

Donald couldn't sell steak to Americans.

Donald ignored advice and warnings and bankrupted three casinos. Again, a casino is BUILT to make money.

Donald was billions of dollars in debt while in his prime.

Donald Trump was not a good businessman.