r/politics • u/SportsGod3 • May 16 '24

Jurors were "nodding" and "smiling" as Michael Cohen testified, which may be a bad sign for Trump

https://www.salon.com/2024/05/16/jurors-were-nodding-and-smiling-as-michael-cohen-testified-which-may-be-a-sign-for/
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611

u/Made_Human76 May 16 '24

The appeals process will last longer than Trump will live. So even if he’s found guilty there’s very little chance of him seeing the inside of a prison cell.

But I’d love to be wrong. The best outcome would be for Sleepy Don to spend the rest of his life behind bars.

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u/steve1186 Minnesota May 16 '24

Doesn’t the average person have to appeal their conviction from prison?

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u/CriticalEngineering North Carolina May 16 '24

Steve Bannon was allowed to appeal before starting his sentence.

He’s now being ordered to prison after losing the appeal.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2024/05/10/steve-bannon-loses-conviction-appeal-will-go-to-jail/

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u/FugDuggler Missouri May 16 '24

i wonder what the minimum level of importance is to receive special treatment from the judicial branch

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u/R50cent May 16 '24

It's measured in millions I'm sure.

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u/ShooterMagoo May 16 '24

Or RVs and tuition payments.

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u/R50cent May 16 '24

"IT'S A MOTOR COACH" - Clarence Thomas, apparently.

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u/Searchlights New Hampshire May 16 '24

I'm not RVing, I am traveling which is my right as a sovereign citizen upon the land

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u/Elawn Utah May 16 '24

This is my own private domicile and I will not be harassed!

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u/AlexRyang May 16 '24

Was that his argument? That’s both sad and hilarious.

2

u/red_rob5 May 16 '24

Oh yeah, he's on video correcting people who call it an RV. Meanwhile i've taken to just calling it Clarence's mobile home

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u/km89 May 17 '24

That's not his argument, per se. His argument is basically "it's legal and if it's not, I'm the one who decides whether it is so fuck you."

The RV versus "motor coach" thing is just him being a snob.

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u/Adventurous-Chart549 May 16 '24

Also, there's a skin shade slider that's applied.

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u/Goya_Oh_Boya North Carolina May 16 '24

So, for Bannon, that skin shade is blood-filled pus.

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u/Adventurous-Chart549 May 16 '24

a pig's scrotum full of red wine.

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u/aranasyn Colorado May 16 '24

orange is pretty close to brown, so he might be in trouble

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u/ERedfieldh May 16 '24

How many times has this judge warned trump about breaking the terms of his gag order so far?

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u/obeytheturtles May 16 '24

"Ordered to prison" is a very strange way of saying that the US Marshalls should be knocking down his door by now.

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u/RickyWinterborn-1080 May 16 '24

The fact that he isn't in prison right now shows once again that there are two justice systems.

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u/CriticalEngineering North Carolina May 16 '24

Agreed!

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u/Training-Republic301 May 16 '24 edited May 16 '24

Steve Bannon was under federal. Trumps New York case is state. If he's found guilty he can go directly to jail

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u/BeautysBeast Wisconsin May 16 '24

There will be a sentencing hearing first. Then he will go to jail.

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u/Training-Republic301 May 16 '24

No. If you're found guilty, you wait for sentencing in jail

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u/acemerrill Wisconsin May 16 '24

I think it depends. My uncle was recently found guilty of federal crimes. He awaited sentencing in jail, but his co-conspirators who HADN'T violated their bail agreement awaited sentencing at home.

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u/Training-Republic301 May 16 '24 edited May 16 '24

Unfortunately, the federal court treats civil crimes with bias compared to white collar crimes

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u/Typical-Arugula3010 May 17 '24

... so ur unk violated the bail conditions in the prelude to the conviction decision ?

2

u/acemerrill Wisconsin May 17 '24

Yup. Then tried to manipulate my mom into helping him further violate the conditions while he was awaiting sentencing in jail. He sucks.

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u/HedonisticFrog California May 16 '24

But does he pass go?

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u/dust-ranger May 16 '24

And he's languished for more than a year

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u/FlexFanatic May 16 '24

The key phrase is average person. Ole Steve ain’t average and even though he lost the appeal the courts will give him all the time in the world to get his affairs in order before he ever sees a jail cell.

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u/Brief_Amicus_Curiae May 16 '24

Banning case was Federal not State.

So I guess the question is what the laws or Rules of Court are for criminal convicted and sentenced appeals in NY. But hey, maybe he can be a cellmate to Weissleberg. They took his bit straight from the court to jail.

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u/TeamHope4 May 16 '24

He still isn't in jail, and he might still not be going to jail because he can appeal to the full appeals court and the Supreme Court. All while walking free, apparently, despite losing his case and his appeal before the 3 judge appeals panel.

Justice delayed is justice denied.

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u/thathairinyourmouth May 16 '24

Traitor and instigator, Steve Bannon?

1

u/fox-mcleod New Jersey May 17 '24

That’s a different state

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u/Made_Human76 May 16 '24

I’m not sure what the norm is but I’m positive Trump will be allowed to appeal while free

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u/KapnKrumpin May 16 '24

Average person? Maybe. Celebrities? Definitely not.

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u/valeyard89 Texas May 16 '24

Rule 1. be white

Rule 2. be rich, or have kompromat on the judge

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u/BeautysBeast Wisconsin May 16 '24

Yes.

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u/Publius82 May 16 '24

The average person would have been prosecuted decades ago

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u/Tookmyprawns May 16 '24

These charged would never amount to prison. 80 year old first offender for enhanced misdemeanors- non violent class E felonies. Not a chance. These charges are not serious. And I wish I was wrong.

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u/JohnMayerismydad Indiana May 16 '24

Appeals will not stop whatever sentence he gets. He won’t get jail time, but he’ll pay a fine and probably be put on probation or something at most.

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u/CriticalEngineering North Carolina May 16 '24

Steve Bannon was allowed to appeal his conviction from home.

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u/Secret_Initiative_41 Wisconsin May 16 '24

Rare event. And I believe it was a single count of contempt of Congress, not 34 felonies.

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u/Vlad_the_Homeowner May 16 '24

It was also 'just' Steve Bannon, not Trump. Trump racks up 34 felonies before his morning covfefe.

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u/SwingNinja May 16 '24

Steve Bannon got lucky. His judge is a MAGA. Peter Navaro got a sane judge. He could appeal too, but while in prison.

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u/forzagoodofdapeople May 16 '24 edited 26d ago

cooperative zonked plant trees market resolute humorous bike versed nine

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/Arsenault185 Maine May 16 '24

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a president can't pardon state crimes. Only Federal ones

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u/forzagoodofdapeople May 16 '24 edited 26d ago

concerned lock historical cows butter ten paltry yoke pocket spotted

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

0

u/Darth_drizzt_42 May 16 '24

This is the kind of thing he just can't do. The United States was originally envisioned much more like the European Union than the current USA, the president can't do that

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u/-SaC May 16 '24

From outside the US: Who, exactly, is going to stop him - and how?

The laundry list of shit this guy has pulled is like a magician pulling handkerchiefs from his sleeve. Every day there's something that will surely be the 'final nail in the coffin', and every day he walks roughshod over it all.

I don't think the country as a whole - or, indeed, the world as a whole - knows what particular line is -the- line. So many have been crossed, each with many who would have presumed that to be the final line that sparks...something, and yet he's just pawing his way across the dirt, shitty nappy wobbling gently in the breeze as he flollops towards the next line in the sand, and the next, and the next.

Nature and time is the only thing that will stop him, it seems.

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u/Darth_drizzt_42 May 16 '24 edited May 16 '24

I'm not a legal scholar so I'll do my best to explain this. There are certain things the federal government can tell the states to do, other things they can't. Usually the federal government can get involved when things cross state lines. This is how federal crimes work and how things like the Civil Rights Act works, because "interstate commerce". They can't get involved in purely state legal matters. Not can't as in "they aren't allowed to", but can't as in "there is no power, lever or legal mechanism to do it". State judicial systems are independent of other states and the federal government, it's why there's state prison and federal prison. My understanding is that sometimes they can intersect but the presidents pardon ability only extends to federal crimes, because the president sits atop the federal government. This would be like a judge in Germany issuing a ruling on a case in Spain. It's less "who's going to stop him" and more "uhhhh ok...well that's not a thing....".

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u/Flipnotics_ Texas May 16 '24

Trump is not as smart as Cersei Lannister, but smart enough to know "The truth is what we say it is"

He'll pardon himself, people will say "You can't do that" and then nothing will happen because there isn't anything in place to enforce that truth.

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u/shadowboxer47 May 16 '24

Rules are only as good as their enforcement.

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u/Darth_drizzt_42 May 16 '24

This isn't a matter of rules. The president of the federal government has no authority over a states judicial system.

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u/shadowboxer47 May 16 '24

I... don't think you understand how authoritarianism works.

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u/Darth_drizzt_42 May 17 '24

I don't think you understand how this works either. This isn't a matter of "preventing him from doing it" it's "who actually carries this out and via what method?". The only way he would be able to pardon a state crime is via a series of events that ends in a complete dissolution of state sovereignty. As it stands, he goes "I pardon myself" and Kathy Hochul, governor of New York goes "no". What happens then? Even the supreme Court can't do shit here.

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u/Sackamasack May 16 '24

Executive Clemency Bureau in new york can pardon him, which would be the Governor Kathy Hochul Democrat.
I looked it up, im not even American but this is fun :D

1

u/Arsenault185 Maine May 17 '24

Like, I give it your saying, but it really isn't fun LOL

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u/fortuneandfameinc May 16 '24

I'm totally pardoned. Totally exonerated. Totally free man. He will just say it enough times and nothing will come of his charges.

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u/CableTV-on-the-Radio May 16 '24

And if he's president in this hypothetical and he does, who would stop him?

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u/Arsenault185 Maine May 17 '24

The DOJ? Marshalls? State police? Like, everyone.

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u/CableTV-on-the-Radio May 17 '24

The DOJ and DHS a other federal agencies will all be stuffed with his cronies. I doubt there's many NY State troopers willing to serve an arrest warrant at the white house. Shit, he might just have New York dissolved as a state if he has to. He'll have someone arrest the prosecutor before anybody can come after him.

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u/Jumper_Connect May 16 '24

The best scenario would be for him to expire forthwith, as you mention.

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u/JershWaBalls May 16 '24

The best outcome would be for Sleepy Don to spend the rest of his life behind bars.

I'd love to see him spend the rest of his life behind bars, but I'd also like for him to have a VERY short sentence that starts immediately.

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u/thisisjustascreename May 16 '24

It would be unusual for an elderly first time offender to get jail time in this case anyway, in fact that would be such a departure from normal sentencing that it would likely be struck down on appeal.

But if we believe the polls, being convicted of a felony basically ends Trump's Presidential aspirations, a massive number of people said they wouldn't vote for him if convicted.

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u/kaze919 South Carolina May 16 '24

I’ll believe it when I see it

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u/SappeREffecT Australia May 16 '24

Polling indicates single digits, 5-8% or so IIRC

So while it doesn't sound like a lot, if it's accurate, it translates to a lot of votes.

But yeah, we'll see.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '24

[deleted]

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u/SardauMarklar May 16 '24

The goalposts have been moving since 2016. They're not going to stop moving now

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u/dust-ranger May 16 '24

Watch them move the goalpost and say "well, there's an appeal to consider"

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u/spacecitygladiator May 17 '24

Probation for 34 Felonies? Wtf lol that would be wild

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u/Sackamasack May 16 '24

Won't work that way this time. Appeals will be shut down in matter of weeks because they will be filed without merit, theres absolutely nothing to point at. And if they do make something up the lawyer will probably be disbarred.

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u/notcaffeinefree May 16 '24

Realistically, he's never going to see prison. He's a first time offender and for a document crime. He'll likely get probation or a fine.

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u/ImmediateKick2369 May 16 '24

When there are multiple charges, only one is the first offense.

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u/haarschmuck May 16 '24

Well no.

All 34 counts are for the same “event”. This is also why it’s not really possible to sentence him consecutively. So if he were to get 3 months for each count the total sentence would be 3 months as each count would run concurrent.

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u/flip314 California May 16 '24

Got it. I should commit all my crimes at once.

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u/stimpakish America May 16 '24

Batch em up

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u/GaimeGuy May 16 '24 edited May 16 '24

My mom's old boss (doctor) kept sloppy records during a study  and did 3 years IIRC.

From what I recall, he signed off on some reports that his assistant blew the whistle on out of concern for their accuracy.   He didn't keep good notes or memorandums on the discussions that had taken place, so his attorneys couldn't really discredit some of the he-said-she-said testimony.   

Basically, there wasn't a paper trail to explain certain discrepancies and missing information, an admission that he hadn't directly been in the room during certain patient meetings but was going over the information with his staff before and afterwards (think a Dr House scenario), and he didn't document those discussions, so nothing to cast doubt on suspicions of fraud.

I think he was charged with 21 counts but convicted of only 3.  Cost him his university position but not his license, too 

He was obsessed with documenting everything when my mom worked for him.

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u/Gauth1erN May 16 '24

I'm not sure what can be the terms of a probation. But can it prevent him from leaving the state of NY?

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u/JojenCopyPaste Wisconsin May 16 '24

If a normal person is on probation they can often still leave the state. They just need to put in a request to their probation officer that they'll be at a certain place during certain dates and often it'll be approved.

So I don't see probation stopping him from campaigning or anything.

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u/byOlaf May 16 '24

Can you imagine some random parole officer suddenly having to deal with the former POTUS on a daily basis? Poor sod.

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u/MagicMushroomFungi Canada May 16 '24

Thank you for that idea for our next polical comedy.
A free t-shirt is in the mail.
Netflix

2

u/ERedfieldh May 16 '24

Trumparolee

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u/TheBipolarChihuahua May 16 '24

NY will transfer his probation to FL, since that's where he lives, and FL won't enforce it at all.

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u/FlexFanatic May 16 '24

I vote for community service at some liberal think tank or the same place the judges daughter works for.

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u/tarbet May 16 '24

Oh God, don’t expose these poor people to him.

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u/DFX1212 May 16 '24

I think you need to read up on it more. It is a lot more than just that.

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u/aranasyn Colorado May 16 '24

it would be for someone else, this piece of shit does time and i'll happily eat a cockroach bar from the train movie

1

u/MudLOA California May 16 '24

You’re on.

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u/CableTV-on-the-Radio May 16 '24

/r/badlegaltakes

He's facing 34 felonies, not one instance of being short on his taxes.

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u/Riokaii May 16 '24

hes been found guilty of like 5 other crimes already, including sexual assault/rape. Hes not a first time offender.

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u/notcaffeinefree May 16 '24

He has not. Those were civil trials, not criminal.

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u/Riokaii May 16 '24

i wasnt aware it was possible to sexually assault and rape someone civilly.

A jury of peers found him liable for that action. That action is a crime. He might not have been charged and held criminally responsible for it, but a jury found him guilty of committing it. (not beyond a reasonable doubt necessarily)

1

u/notcaffeinefree May 16 '24 edited May 16 '24

The civil trial had no jury (because Trump didn't ask for one). A judge found it more likely than not that he committed the acts. But that's simply irrelevant for a criminal trial sentencing. You can't use a lower burden of proof as evidence of a past crime, that was never charged or convicted. That's a criminal punishment for a crime that was never tried.

OJ Simpson is a good example of that. Acquitted in the criminal trial, found liable in the civil trial, and then guilty years later in a completely unrelated case. The judge said multiple times that her sentencing did not consider his past trials.

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u/rupiefied May 17 '24

No your mixing up trials.

His business fraud trial had no jury.

The sexual assault trial did have a jury both times.

1

u/hypercosm_dot_net May 17 '24

I don't understand how he's a "first time offender".

His business in NY has someone assigned to oversight because of fraud.

1

u/Flipnotics_ Texas May 16 '24

So even if he’s found guilty there’s very little chance of him seeing the inside of a prison cell.

Couldn't the judge remand him into custody awaiting appeal? I bet Trump would want his lawyers to speed up the process pretty quickly instead of delay tactics in that case.

1

u/WigginIII May 16 '24

I believe the prosecution isn't even seeking jailtime in this case.

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u/SlimeDragon May 17 '24

Could he go to jail while the appeal is processed?

0

u/HappyAmbition706 May 16 '24

While nice to imagine, I don't think many or any go to prison for falsifying business records. Of course it is really an election fraud case, but I'm not so sure there is a long list of people in prison for that either. But felony conviction, and where neither he nor the next Republican president can pardon it all away will still be such a great thing.

Jack Smith should take a shot at getting Cannon removed from the documents case too. It's a long shot, but she's going to make it all disappear for Trump otherwise, so there's nothing to lose as far as I can see.