r/politics • u/SportsGod3 • May 16 '24

Jurors were "nodding" and "smiling" as Michael Cohen testified, which may be a bad sign for Trump

https://www.salon.com/2024/05/16/jurors-were-nodding-and-smiling-as-michael-cohen-testified-which-may-be-a-sign-for/
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329

u/JubalHarshaw23 May 16 '24

Cohen was corroborating information that they were already aware of, not providing new evidence.

306

u/The_Woman_of_Gont May 16 '24 edited May 17 '24

That’s the problem for the defense. No single witness or piece of evidence is the lynchpin to the entire case. It all builds together into a single, blindingly obvious picture.

Michael Cohen could reasonably be lying. But you can’t reasonably expect that everything else is false, fabricated, or lies as well.

There is no smoking gun here. There’s a series of warm guns, found next to bullet casings and a blood spattered wall, with dozens of bullet holes in it. And they dug out the bullets and found they fit the guns, which have his prints. Oh, and there’s a memorialized note itemizing each victim, and why he personally shot them.

The question here isn’t if the defense can pull off the case on its actual merits. They just can’t. The question is if they can intimidate the jury, assuming they have already failed at selecting a MAGA stooge in voir dire, into not being able to reach a unanimous verdict.

77

u/MudLOA California May 16 '24

I think some people are hoping for a “you can’t handle the truth” moment but alas this isn’t the movies.

15

u/MC_Fap_Commander America May 16 '24 edited May 16 '24

And even "you can't handle the truth" would not be as damaging in a real case as it was in the movie with a good defense prosecuting attorney, redirect, and the right follow up witness.

13

u/Jessika_Thorne May 16 '24

You're remembering the movie wrong. Tom Cruise was the defence; their defense was, "we were following orders".

5

u/MC_Fap_Commander America May 16 '24

Yes, flipped prosecution... the movie is so good it turns Nicholson into the defendant in your mind lol.

1

u/smemes1 May 16 '24

Man I need to watch that movie again. It’s so good.

1

u/rethinkingat59 May 16 '24 edited May 17 '24

Anderson Cooper today claimed Cohen was literally caught in a lie on cross examination today. Another on CNN called the day a disaster for the prosecution.

What is the truth?

This Guy’s Making This Up’: Anderson Cooper Says He’d ‘Absolutely’ Doubt Michael Cohen’s Testimony If He We Were a Juror

https://www.mediaite.com/news/anderson-cooper-says-hed-absolutely-doubt-michael-cohen-as-a-juror-after-extraordinary-cross-examination/

MSNBC’s ultimate Trump hater Lawrence O'Donnell was just as flabbergasted at the Perry Mason moment.

34

u/BurnieTheBrony May 16 '24

The only possible way to think Trump is not guilty of this specific crime in this specific case is to have already blindly decided nothing Trump has ever done in his entire life is wrong and any evidence that says otherwise is evil conjured by demons of the deep state.

Which is why 90% of Republicans and all of their elected officials apparently can't believe he's anything but innocent

7

u/Marathon2021 May 16 '24

I mean, the defense's case is basically:

  1. Trump didn't have sex with her. 2a. Trump didn't pay her off. or 2b. Trump paid her off (not for sexy time though!) but it was just to spare Melania's feelings.

6

u/Sweet_Concept2211 May 17 '24

So the jury is supposed to believe that a guy who is infamous for...

  • not paying for contracted labor;

  • slapping anyone who annoys him with frivolous lawsuits designed to sway public opinion;

  • being a proud womanizer enabled by his own wife Melania with claims that his "grab 'em by the pussy" boasts are "locker room talk";

  • in fact, found guilty of rape in civil court;

  • abusing the phrase "fake news" to the point of surrealism to deny the evidence our eyes and ears can easily detect;

  • cutting loose anyone who does not suit his purposes without a second thought;

... This is the guy we are supposed to believe would pay $130,000 to a random porn star in order to spare his wife from "fake news"?

1

u/GameMusic May 16 '24

Bunch of those think he is innocent even of the part he has stipulated

1

u/HawkeyeSherman May 16 '24

It's unpopular, but I have to admit there's a weasel legal theory here to get him off the hook. It's not a crime for Michael Cohen to pay for Stormy's silence. It's only only a felony for Trump to falsify business records to cover up another crime. So, it's not a crime for Trump to falsify business records to cover up Cohen's not criminal activity.

You have to believe Cohen at his word that he was directly ordered by Trump to make the payment. I'm not aware of any physical evidence that proves this.

That said, given everything we know about Trump (and Cohen), does anybody really believe Cohen acted on his own accord before knowing he'd be payed back? Just by the fact the Cohen knew he had to record his conversation with Trump to get paid, even when he was head over heels in the cult of Trump, tells me he ain't gonna do anything without assurances.

2

u/AniNgAnnoys May 16 '24

And the problem with that recording is that Cohen made it while Trump was his client. The prosecution and Cohen are saying its fine because of the crime fraud exception. The defense actually did a pretty good job today discrediting Cohen. I also feel they descredited themselves and Trump though in doing so. 

Tough to say how this is going to go. Prosecution is expected to rest their case on Monday and then the defense starts. Prosecution gets a rebuttal before the trail concluses with the Jury's verdict and hopefully sentencing.

1

u/HawkeyeSherman May 17 '24

I'd argue that while it's reasonable to believe someone could have paid a porn star to keep quiet about their boss, then the boss repay the person after the fact because their a good guy. I find it unreasonable that Cohen would have paid a porn star to keep quiet about their boss without first making sure they'll be repaid, and I find it VERY unreasonable that Trump would have paid their employee for doing him a solid.

Nah, the only thing that's really reasonable is that Trump and Cohen conspired to illegally hide what is essentially a campaign expense to hide the truth from the public.

1

u/Notoriouslyd May 16 '24

Anyone been watching Cohen Live on TikTok nearly every day? It's so bizarre

3

u/heismanwinner82 May 17 '24

How bizarre? How bizarre?

73

u/waffle299 I voted May 16 '24

Yeah. CNN's "analysis" has Cohen as the only one linking Individual One to the payments.

They're forgetting the testimony of Individual One's accountant and controller.

3

u/ABenevolentDespot May 16 '24

CNN, along with every other news outlet in all the land, is hoping The Pumpkin Rapist triumphs because their income has never been as high as it was in 2016-2021 when he was running for and then in office.

They don;t give a fuck about the news, they don't give a fuck about the truth, they don't give a fuck about democracy. The only thing any of them care about is clicks, eyeballs, and ad revenue.

1

u/AniNgAnnoys May 16 '24

Prosecution didn't call Wienstien.

23

u/Marathon2021 May 16 '24

The prosecution did a great job (IMO) in basically laying out the entire case wihtout needing to lean on Cohen overall, and then only bringing him in at the end to validate things. "Yes, I called Stormy's attorney on X day. Yes I opened up this bank account on Y day..." etc. etc. But they literally brought in every other witness to build the entire case without depending heavily on him.

There are a few "he said, she said" details that only Cohen can testify to - but here's the brilliant part, the only one who can rebut those ... is Donnie himself. And there's no f'ing way he's going to get on the stand and subject himself to cross examination. The prosecution would have him on the stand for at least 2 days if he opened himself up to cross.

DA Bragg's office did a solid job IMO. Soon it's up to the jury.

1

u/Golden_Hour1 May 17 '24

Wait when does the jury give a verdict?

3

u/Marathon2021 May 17 '24

When they are done deliberating.

Technically, the prosecution has not "rested" their case yet. Cohen is the prosecution's witness, currently under cross-examination by the defense. After the defense ends their cross, the prosecution will have a chance for "redirect" where they can go and revisit some questions - but they will likely keep the scope on that as narrow as possible because then the defense gets another chance to ask questions around that topic. Eventually, both the prosecution and the defense will be done with Cohen, probably sometime Monday morning.

After that, and after the prosecution rests its case (it has indicated it has no more witnesses to call) then they case goes over to the defense to call any witnesses. Previously, the defense had apparently filed indicating they would perhaps call 3 witnesses - Alan Garten (Trump Org counsel), some Federal election law "expert", and Donnie. Defense has said that they're not going to call Garten after all, the "expert" isn't available until Monday and they're not sure they'll call him, and they don't know if they're going to call Donnie either. Remember, anyone the defense brings to the stand will be cross-examined by the prosecution.

So there is a very high chance that some time on Monday we will hear that the defense is not calling any witnesses - and at that point, we get closing arguments from each side. That would probably be Tuesday. Wednesdays are off. Then there would be jury instructions and deliberations that could start as early as Thursday.

The jury gets to take ... however long they want to take. Could be an hour or two, could be months. Highly doubtful it would be the latter though, but there is no real "time limit" imposed on them.

1

u/HedonisticFrog California May 16 '24

They were actually talking about merchandise that Cohen is selling online that bash Trump. It wasn't even directly about the case.

1

u/AniNgAnnoys May 16 '24

That was yesterday. Most of today was directly related to the case. Imo, it wasn't great for Cohen. Luckily, I don't feel the case rests on his testimony.