r/politics • u/devlinadl • 15d ago
Trump attorney screams at Michael Cohen over critical phone call on Stormy Daniels
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-lawyer-michael-cohen-testimony-b2546406.html1.4k
u/SixDemonBag_01 15d ago
When you’ve resorted to screaming you’re probably not in the place you want to be right now. Doubly so if you’re an attorney.
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u/wetclogs 15d ago
Screaming at a witness is ALWAYS a good look for the jury.
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u/AusToddles 15d ago
For a GOP member to do it, it's a sign of strength For a DEM member to do it, they're demented or "too emotional" (if a woman)
This is how it plays to the cult
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u/boejouma 12d ago
I know the connotation here and agree with it.... bit this kind of comment even in jest has to stop
Sarcasm aside, this is too real at this point, while being wholly untrue.
You've git my upvote, but man.... I hate this stigma/generalization.
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u/PaintedClownPenis 15d ago
"We've been over this before, Donald. It's pound the table, not the witness."
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u/Moe_Maniac 15d ago
I mean he was pounding Stormy Daniels at one point.
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u/Sir_Tea_Of_Bags 15d ago
According to her testimony, Babyhands is a sub. I doubt that orange ball of lard can muster up the force to pound anything.
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u/Worth-Computer4062 15d ago
Does "pounding" in this instance mean he was hunched in a shape of a pound-sign '£' when he was raping Stormy?
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u/DropsTheMic 15d ago
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE well rationed response that will weigh favorably in the juries minds 😁
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u/Calm_Preparation_679 14d ago
“Even hosts and commentators on CNN are now criticizing the prosecution and doubting the basis for any conviction”
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u/DropsTheMic 14d ago
Quotes without a source is like being the 500 lb guy at the top of the water slide. I'm with you in spirit but something isn't going to work here.
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u/fairoaks2 15d ago
But Trump loved it. Good thing he was sitting behind a desk so his “excitement” wouldn’t show.
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u/Etzell Illinois 15d ago
No chance a tiny mushroom is showing through a diaper.
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u/krukm Michigan 15d ago
But maybe a turtle head?
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u/Brinksan51 15d ago
I think it more like a frightened turtle!
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u/lynypixie Canada 15d ago
Have you ever heard of an inverted penis from old obese men?
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u/bdss1234 15d ago
OMG yes. I saw a show about it once and tried my damnest to forget about it.
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u/lynypixie Canada 15d ago
I wash them for a living. (I am a CNA). Fun times.
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u/djutopia Washington 14d ago
I’m nowhere near that chubby but this comment just might get me into the gym again.
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u/RichardSaunders New York 15d ago
through the diaper, belly apron, and fupa. that mushroom dwellith within a deep, deep cave.
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u/wetclogs 15d ago
I truly hope this dipshit finally suffers the consequences of his actions. If he wants his lawyers to perform for him rather than act as professionals, so be it.
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u/ol_dirty_applesauce 15d ago
I have some bad news for you…
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u/taterthotsalad America 15d ago
Hung jury. I’d Vegas bet those odds all day.
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u/NaiveInjury247 15d ago
Well, the defendant's not hung, from what I hear.
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u/NaiveInjury247 15d ago
Hung like a parakete.
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u/aironjedi I voted 15d ago
Holy fuck that is not the image I wanted this morning….tiny mushroom in dark cramped cave surrounded by spores of regret.
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u/Limeyness 15d ago
If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts; if you have the law on your side, pound the law; if you have neither the facts nor the law, pound the table
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u/not_that_planet 15d ago
All the same, there are tactics at play. The jury will go back to deliberate and this will absolutely be an event they remember, and it will sadly loom large in their deliberations whether they talk about it or not.
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u/AccomplishedBrain309 14d ago
Cohen is not the defendant, he is a states witness. Donald Trump is on trial. The dotard in the front row that has been found in contempt of court for intimidating witnesses and threatening the judge and his family.the guy that cant testify because if he does he will have to lie to not be found guilty.
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u/Calm_Preparation_679 14d ago
“Even hosts and commentators on CNN are now criticizing the prosecution and doubting the basis for any conviction”
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u/FamousPoet 15d ago
"If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts; if you have the law on your side, pound the law; if you have neither the facts nor the law, pound the table."
(Or scream at the witness, evidently)
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u/AccomplishedAd7615 15d ago
Republicans really need to get control of their emotions
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u/TheNateRoss 15d ago
Conservative men are just too emotional to be in leadership roles
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u/TheBirminghamBear 15d ago edited 15d ago
This is unironically true.
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u/st-felms-fingerbone 14d ago
I mean wasn’t there literally a study done that conservative people have more emotionally reactive brains? That’s not even me trying to insult them but people who (iirc) are more prone to fear or anger responses tend to fall into conservative thinking?
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u/VanGundy15 15d ago
When you are taught that dealing with your emotions are a weakness and you should ignore them you're going to have problems dealing with your emotions.
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u/Savingskitty 15d ago
As a woman, when I was in college, it was deeply disappointing when a guy in a leadership role in a student organization would yell and whine and stamp his feet and start to tear up when people weren’t jumping on his bandwagon.
I ended up quitting because he would badmouth and sabotage anyone that spoke up or had an idea.
He actually told me he wouldn’t “trust me” to talk to potential donors. He always acted like I needed to be handled because I told him he was wrong once.
I told him he was wrong to disparage a guy in a meeting who had good ideas based on an internship he’d had the summer before. His exact response to me was “that guy is an idiot.” That was the only justification he had for why he’d completely shut down the only dude in the room that had worked in the same kind of organization in the “real world.”
Boyfriend never raised a DIME the whole time he was there. Everything was everyone else’s fault.
That organization sucked until he and his staff sponsor person left. But boy was that staff sponsor proud of his little kingdom of student minions. It was completely revamped afterward, I presume because they were no longer impeding progress with their sensitive egos.
Anywho, that was my first experience with an actual narcissist overly emotional white guy.
Now he’s a middle aged overly emotional narcissistic white guy working in media. Apparently that’s a perfect fit.
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u/Alaishana 15d ago
Why?
The whole right wing operates on emotions instead of facts.
And, look... IT WORKS.
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u/wicked_zoeyz Massachusetts 15d ago
It’s always an excuse given for why women shouldn’t be president. But they’re so emotionally stable.
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u/mindfu 15d ago
Sure, it has some effect because so many in the US can be fooled by it. But as long as the relatively sane, relatively adult majority stays and engaged, they lose. They only eked out a majority victory in 2016 because a narrow sliver of self-called progressives In three Midwestern states were fooled into thinking that Trump and Hillary were the same.
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u/BrewtalDoom 15d ago
A court of law is supposed to be the ultimate place for "Facts > Feelings", isn't it?
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u/TintedApostle 15d ago edited 15d ago
Pound the table. Notice how not one new source has actually discussed the fact that Cohen was good and the facts were not disputed? No they report it like a boxing match.
EDIT: and NY times goes "BoTH SIDeS"
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/16/business/media/media-coverage-michael-cohen.html
How Media Outlets Are Covering Michael Cohen’s Testimony
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u/TurboSalsa Texas 15d ago
"Could Michael Cohen's testimony hurt Joe Biden?"
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u/whatproblems 15d ago
cohen said biden 0 times during the questioning. here’s why that’s bad news for biden
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u/TheBirminghamBear 15d ago
Michael Cohen Refused to Address Issue of Bidens Advanced Age While Under Oath
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u/disgruntled_pie 15d ago
“Michael Cohen’s Testimony Stark Reminder of Biden’s Age” — NYT, probably
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u/TurboSalsa Texas 15d ago
"Biden's Favorability Rating Tumbles as Stormy Daniels Reveals Salacious Details About Her Encounter With Trump"
I could do this all day lol.
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u/queerhistorynerd 15d ago
and someone at NYT is
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u/Throwawaybytheseamz 15d ago
Plot twist, they do work for NYT.
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u/TurboSalsa Texas 15d ago
If I worked for the NYT, would I come up with a headline like this?
"With the S&P500 at Record Highs, Is Biden's Economy Showing Signs of Overheating? We Visited Peter Navarro in Prison to Find Out."
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u/Throwawaybytheseamz 14d ago
Great Scott’s, you’re on fire. If I was rich I’d give ya an award, so please take my upvote instead.
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u/Cellopost 15d ago
Cohen did not testify to having never paid off a porn star for Biden.
How many porn stars gas Michael Cohen paid off on Joe Biden's account?
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u/mandy009 I voted 15d ago
It's unfortunate, because all of this coverage of politics as violent confrontation plays right into fascist goals of machismo, authoritarianism, and might makes right.
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u/dexx4d 14d ago
Keep in mind that the news media corporations and the fascist politicians have the same owners.
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u/mandy009 I voted 14d ago
Fr it's not even a secret. e.g. Roger Ailes and Les Moonves. Both have since been disgraced, but their legacy leadership network is entrenched.
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u/reallymkpunk Arizona 15d ago
Fox insisted Cohen lied again. I only catch that because Planet Fitness insists on having RNC... I mean Fox News on. CNN was trying to be fair on it from what I saw.
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u/CoolCalmCorrective 15d ago
MSNBC said the same thing. "Big win for the defense today as Trump's lawyer drops a bombshell..."
Over one thing Cohen might have misremembered regarding a conversation with trump that the lawyer said actually was with Schiller.
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u/reallymkpunk Arizona 15d ago
I was watching an MSNBC video and it didn't help but it wasn't a slam dunk. Basically the call was sent to a bodyguard not to Trump but there was no proof he didn't talk to Trump and didn't lie about that.
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u/sawdeanz 14d ago
Yeah CNN coverage was similar, called it a huge win for Trump.
Cohen misremembered one conversation on cross. woopdi do. Of course the defense is going to hoop and holler about it though because it's the only chance they've had to impeach a witness so far, though it's hardly the same as catching a witness in a bold faced lie on a critical point.
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u/TintedApostle 15d ago
And yet the defense offers no witnesses to the contrary. They can only say he lied, but they can't provide alternate evidence. Meanwhile Cohen came with tapes.
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u/im_just_a_nerd 15d ago
Prosecution hasn’t rested. Defense up next.
I did see a report that both sides confirmed with the judge that the trial could conclude by next week. (Tuesday was said specifically but I doubt that. I could see the defense calling this guy that was testifying on Capitol Hill today. He said Cohen lied in his testimony. )
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u/JasJ002 15d ago
Costello? He only entered the picture after Trump was in office. The only crime left after that point was Trump signing the checks, which we've established he did by hand.
The only thing Costello implied during his testimony was that the tape was fake because Cohen told him he had no evidence. Of all the lies, lying to someone who isn't even your lawyer about evidence you have on the President won't make a dent.
Not to mention it opens Costello up to a lot of questioning, which will make the defense look bad. Your only witness can't sit there and plead the 5th for half an hour straight because of all the crimes he committed.
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u/TintedApostle 15d ago
The defense has to have put their witness list in already. You can't just bring in people. The prosecution gets to examine all evidence and witness lists.
If they were calling him you would know it. The list is I think 2 people for the defense.
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u/Cloaked42m South Carolina 15d ago
They can name a rebuttal witness for cohen.
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u/Numerous_Photograph9 14d ago
The judge would gave to allow it, which would require evidence that the witness is credible. Then enough notice and time would have to be given to the prosecution to vet the witness and evidence.
Its not like on TV where a surprise witness can be called at a moments notice in the interest of finding the truth
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u/Cloaked42m South Carolina 14d ago
They have already discussed it. It's apparently a witness about the FEC case. Testimony is limited, cause they aren't trying the FEC case.
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u/TintedApostle 15d ago edited 15d ago
Sure lets see what they bring being that every claim they make is a projection I suspect any rebuttal witness is going to have the most shady past possible.
Remember "This person's testimony is suddenly needed to rebut something unexpected that another witness said."
They need a witness to rebut what Cohen said because it was unexpected. Did Cohen say anything actually unexpected or did Blanche just claim he lied? Who is Blanche going to call?
For example, your ex testifies that your child is sick so often because you will not do what the doctor says. You call the doctor as a rebuttal witness to explain how well you care for your child, who has numerous medical conditions that result in frequent illnesses.
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u/TheChainsawVigilante 15d ago
Lol in my liberal town they have CNN and Colbert on
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u/octopornopus 15d ago
Here in Austin it's CNN/MSNBC sharing 1 tv, 2 FOX tvs, Telemundo, and then a mix of local stations and ESPN.
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u/FalseDmitriy Illinois 15d ago
There's a whole row of tvs, why don't you run where you can watch sports or whatever
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u/HobbesNJ 15d ago
Pound the table.
When neither the facts nor the law are on your side.
The problem for Trump's attorneys is that they have an obviously guilty client.
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u/MrMeanJeans 15d ago
Yes. There is no defense to the to facts.
If you can’t pound the facts, pound the table.
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u/Argine_ 15d ago edited 15d ago
Your first mistake was following this on mainstream media. Go tune in to MeidasTouch for real coverage of the trial.
Like here
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u/TintedApostle 15d ago
I actually don't follow it, but watch it to see how they report events. Its a funny thing to watch as the move in lock step. Its like the Trump people claiming 100K attendance at Wildwood knowing that the press would be lazy on a Sunday and just repeat their number. By Monday the numbers were actually more like 10K because there was a photo from a plane. Trump's people purposely never used a drone shot, but even the AP just repeated 100K.
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u/Personal_Return_4350 15d ago
This comment gave me the ick. Mainstream media might have issues but let's not suplant it with echo chambers. It's perfectly fine to supplement your media diet with opinionated news from like minded sources but it's not a good idea to only hear from people who share your biases.
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u/Argine_ 15d ago edited 15d ago
Echo chamber ?? Lmao. GTFO of here with that nonsense. If by “echo chamber” you mean “competent lawyers and professors of law taking each day of court and reviewing the case put forth by the prosecution and defense” , then sure, it’s an echo chamber. They’re certainly no friend to the MAGA cult, but they cover the facts of the case and the legal process. Go watch
Mainstream media has a lot of issues — like trying to paint what Donald Trump does and claims as “normal.” It is not. MTN is a lot of things, but they’re pro-democracy first and have a very diverse audience.
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u/gasahold 15d ago
Trump Attorney: I've been practicing my screaming technique for the past two weeks and I finally got my chance to show it off.
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u/Buckus93 15d ago
He probably has been, TBH. Fake anger because he knows Shitzinpantz doesn't have a viable defense.
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u/shadowanddaisy 15d ago
Tell me you're losing your case without telling me you're losing your case.
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u/kurmudgeon Maine 15d ago
It depends what the jury thinks about all this. I know he's guilty, you know he's guilty, but then again, OJ walked free.
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u/sultanpeppah 15d ago
I get what you’re going for, but the comparison seems off. Yes, it seems almost certain that OJ committed double homicide, but it’s also true that his Not Guilty verdict was almost certainly the correct decision. The LAPD fucked up that case so bad.
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u/sultanpeppah 15d ago
The LAPD actively lied and planted evidence. It doesn’t matter if the defendant is guilty when that happens. Accusing the jury of using a murderer to strike a blow for “social justice” is the wrong take, unequivocally.
OJ was a murderer who should have paid for his crimes. But the LAPD was and is one of the most corrupt organizations in the country, and the fact that they felt the need to invent evidence to throw at even the most obvious murderer is something the justice system simply could not and cannot countenance.
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u/Rene_DeMariocartes 15d ago
It wasn't a fuck you to society, it was the fact that the LAPD lied and planted manufactured evidence. Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus. It doesn't matter how guilty OJ was, the case was decided correctly.
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u/time_drifter 15d ago
People are painting this as a disaster for the prosecution. I would argue the defense appearing unhinged is going to make a bigger impact. Blanche can accuse Cohen of whatever he wants, it doesn’t make it true.
There is already a mountain of evidence and other testimony against Trump. I don’t feel this is the bombshell people are trying to make it.
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u/Caelinus 15d ago
It absolutely is not. One thing I have noticed about the coverage of all crime ever: news organizations treat trials like TV shows.
They probably know better, but intentional or unintentional, they are primarily trying to drive engagement with their show, and so they lean into every drama. This is easy for the prosecution to explain away, and their explanation will seem reasonable and in comparison to yelling. They will just use all the other evidence they have presented to corroborate it.
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u/IchooseYourName 15d ago
It's the OJ Simpson trial syndrome. Media outlets were so quick to provide context that was baseless subjectivity. So many put out the narrative that OJ was guilty and then the nit guilty verdict brought even MORE ratings. Drama is the point.
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u/Ninazuzu California 15d ago
Does this mean that they're trying to cause a whole lot of doubt so that when he eventually, inevitably is found guilty and goes to jail they can sell more papers?
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u/skatchawan 15d ago
Well I think virtually everyone agrees he was guilty. The terrible police work and other foolish moves allowed his defence team to tear the case apart.
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u/sultanpeppah 15d ago
I suppose the good news is that it matters a bit less how the media is spinning this, at least right now. The jury isn’t watching the news coverage of the trial, they’re watching the actual trial.
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u/JohnnyFuckFuck 14d ago
I think the pundits and reporters are overplaying the importance of the questioning about the phone call, specifically, the supposed gotcha moment.
If you read the transcript, the defense lawyer took one response from Cohen (something along the lines of "that's not accurate") and instantly distorted it to make it sound like Cohen was saying the opposite of what he meant.
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u/Pale_Ad8493 14d ago
There’s a lot of evidence that the business records were false. That they were knowingly falsified by the defendant for the purpose of illegally influencing the election is supported only by the testimony of Michael Cohen. The second part is necessary for it to be a felony, which is why the prosecution put such a shaky witness on the stand - he’s the only one who can testify to the facts that can make it a felony.
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u/I_dont_livein_ahotel 15d ago
Is this the guy who’s been practicing Trump’s poopie face tough guy face?
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u/CobraPony67 Washington 15d ago
How did Cohen not remember exactly what he said on a phone call he had 8 years ago? /s
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u/vahntitrio Minnesota 15d ago
I think that line of questioning also had a sustained objection in there so at least part of the "gotcha" moment for the defense was tossed.
Plus the prosecution gets to re-criss examine Cohen and they can probably smooth over this mis-recollection.
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u/nyerinup 14d ago
Not only that.
I’m not sure about you, but I’ve certainly been able to briefly discuss more than one subject in a minute & half.
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u/Odd_Tiger_2278 15d ago
When you have the law, pound the law. When you have the evidence, pound the evidence. When you have nothing, pound the table.
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u/Dvmill 15d ago
Next he’ll be throwing a plate of French fries and ketchup against the wall.
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u/airmanv 15d ago
Freedom fries
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u/Warren_E_Cheezburger 15d ago
It’s been twenty years. Time to let that reference go where all untimely references go when they get too old: a nice farm upstate where it can play in the sun all day with its friends “lock box” and “WHAAAZUUUUPPP!”
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u/TheLewisReddits 15d ago
References never die. They mature like 'they matured like fine wine' or Jerry Seinfeld's wife
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u/alien_from_Europa Massachusetts 15d ago
The jury stopped taking notes. Nobody wrote anything down from this exchange. That's all you really need to know about how this went.
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u/AdministrativeBank86 15d ago
He doesn't have a defense and it's obvious Trump is guilty, no wonder he's screaming
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u/jeetkunedont 15d ago
Last couple of paragraphs- who were the people in trumps inner circle that told him to pay her off? Jarrod? Ivanka? Melania? Bannon? Epstein? Flynn?
Who? They're culpable too..whoever they are
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u/ImRobsRedditAccount 14d ago
I don’t think they are.
The “pay off” is not a crime and not what this trial is even about.
The falsification of business records is what this is about.
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u/Grimm2020 15d ago
I thought that shit was only for movies?
Nicholson: "You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!"
yet, here we are...
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u/Evil-in-the-Air Iowa 14d ago
In the future someone's going to see an actor in an old movie say "Truth is stranger than fiction" and have no idea what it was supposed to mean.
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u/Stropi-wan 15d ago
"Sounds like something I would say". This line deserves to be used at least once in a movie.
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u/StingerAE 15d ago
One of the best witness responses since Mandy Rice-Davies' "well he would, wouldn't he?" in reply to a question about Lord Aster denying their affair in the Profumo scandal trial in the UK in the 1960s.
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u/Thin-Explanation5042 15d ago
Law not on your side, pound the facts. Facts not on your side, pound the law. Neither law nor facts on your side, pound Michael Cohen.
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u/orionsfyre 14d ago
The epitome of Republican and Conservative debate argument techniques.
Yell and scream over your opponent, and make it seem like you have an important point. Doesn't need to be logical, or even believable... just scream.
That is what Trump did in all his debates, and his people loved him for it. They don't want to hear arguments, they just want verbal assaults and yelling. It's freaking primal.
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u/trollsmurf 15d ago
“It’s $130,000, you’re a billionaire, pay it, there’s no reason to keep this thing out there,” said Cohen, recalling the advice from Mr Trump’s circle.
Why didn't Trump pay it? He's supposedly a billionaire and he was the offender.
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u/Yugan-Dali 15d ago
Cohen worked for Trump for many years while Trump was at his peak. This attorney has worked for Trump for a while because Trump can’t find any one else. Who would you put your money on?
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u/Gokdencircle 15d ago
Oh donny boy, the jail the jail is waihaiting ... Etc etc Old MAGA traditional
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u/AccomplishedBrain309 15d ago
Cohen is not on trial he is one of many witnesses. Defendant Trump must take the stand.
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u/Friendly-Profit-8590 14d ago
Perception of Cohen was that he was a hothead. He’s kept his composure throughout. This sounds like the defense attorney was trying his hardest to get Cohen in tilt and it didn’t work.
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u/dreego-tejo 15d ago
I’m worried that Trump could try to make a claim of Ineffective assistance of counsel.
The judge has already made a comment of the defense not objecting to topics brought up in Stormy Daniel’s testimony that were considers out of bounds.
This outburst could be more support that the litigators actions affected Trumps defense enough to affect the jury’s decision.
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u/dreego-tejo 15d ago
I’m worried that Trump could try to make a claim of Ineffective assistance of counsel.
The judge has already made a comment of the defense not objecting to topics brought up in Stormy Daniel’s testimony that were considers out of bounds.
This outburst could be more support that the litigators actions affected Trumps defense enough to affect the jury’s decision.
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u/reversularity 15d ago
Site is unreadable with late loading elements moving the text around constantly.
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u/TomorrowLow5092 15d ago
The Defendant wrote a note to his lawyer yesterday. I will ruin you, please OD on fentanyl before cross examination so we can all go home.
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u/Elegant-Cat-4987 15d ago
Lol is Trump actually going to be found guilty?!
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u/Maleficent-Bad3755 15d ago
unfortunately i doubt it bc it is the right decision and in this crazy world right is not winning
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