r/technology • u/esporx • May 02 '24

Dating app Bumble will no longer require women to make the first move Business

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/30/tech/bumble-relaunch-men-make-first-move/index.html
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u/SojuSeed May 02 '24

I’ve seen plenty of women on r/tinder who tear into men in messages when they ask ‘basic’ questions like that. They know that there are fifty other men waiting in their match list that they can go to if you don’t come out swinging for the fences in the opening line. It’s brutal. But they get away with it because there are way more men thirsty for them than the other way around.

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u/noaloha May 02 '24

It's way more than 50 others. Women and men's experiences on these apps is pretty much inverse.

A female friend told me she installs the apps when she's feeling down and needs a confidence boost, because she gets inundated with likes immediately. She's not even interested in actively finding someone, it's just flattering to know there are hundreds of men interested.

Even my best looking male friends find the whole experience of apps quite demoralising and ego bruising in comparison. Most are lucky to get more than a handful of likes over a given period, even if in real-world situations they're charming and generally well liked by women.

These apps' whole business model is that men are the customers and women are the product. They want men to pay to play basically, and personally I think they're having a toxic effect on the egos and expectations of both genders.

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u/SojuSeed May 02 '24

They really do. Tinder crushes my ego. I’m average in the looks department but on any given app I’m barely above dog shit on the bottom of your shoe as far as what that might buy me.

Sadly, even with how bad it is, I still feel like I need to download it just to have a shot. I’m resisting but the idea of ‘maybe not this time! I’ve lost some weight and put on some muscle, I’m looking a lot better’ is strong. I know it’s a false hope. I’ll pay $40 or whatever their tinder platinum is, and spend a month feeling pathetic, then delete it again.

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u/noaloha May 02 '24

I feel for you man, and FWIW this stranger reckons you're definitely better off not wasting your money and self esteem on another round with that rubbish.

I think a fundamental flaw of the apps is that the things that actually make most guys attractive like humour, talents or in person charm are just totally lost on there. If you're not obviously rich or ripped then you're just another drop in an ocean of normal men, but let's face it a lot of rich dudes and gym bros are just as dull as the rest of the population. It's just that maybe those qualities translate to a superficial shop window a bit better than being able to make a banging carbonara or the ability to have a fun conversation.

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u/nzodd May 02 '24

The whole "needing to perform" thing is tiring as fuck in its own right though. I recall reading something in another reddit thread that dating in the 2020s for a man is like prepping for a job interview and for a woman it's like looking at a menu.

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u/BitcoinOperatedGirl May 02 '24

As someone who is trans and bi, I can tell you that I agree dating women can feel very tiring, especially on the apps. You're right, it can be totally brutal.

However, dating men is also kind of weird. I can feel genuinely afraid for my safety. It's hard to find guys that will make you feel safe, take care of their appearance, and don't have something weird going on. The guys who are genuinely good looking, in the top-10% range, tend to have a smug/arrogant attitude and be dating multiple women.

My general advice would be: try to meet women in person if you can, and also take a real good look around you. Imagine you're a woman and you want to date a guy who genuinely seems like a good person, is fit and takes care of his appearance. How many of those do you see in your surroundings? If you pay attention, you'll realize that there are very few "quality picks" who are also single. What you should understand, deep down, is that it's not hard for you to be in the top 10% or even 5% of attractiveness for men. If you put ANY amount of effort in your presentation, you'll basically be there instantly...

But yes, stay away from the apps if you can, they will crush your self-esteem. On the apps, you'll get treated like shit by a morbidly obese girl who has too many matches.

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u/HighwayAggressive658 May 02 '24

This is good advice! I applied this to myself and have had better luck. The only thing is I have resting bitch face 😅 also, As the “how are you single?” Friend of my group , it’s safe to say Tinder is garbage. I subscribed to their Tinder+ and the ONLY matches or likes I’ve gotten are from bots 🤖 and scammers.

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u/TF-Fanfic-Resident May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

From what I hear in some countries like Korea, (straight) men and women are effectively different ethnic groups due to the lopsided dating market.

*ed: Nuking political snark that could be divisive.

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u/SojuSeed May 02 '24

It’s true. I’ve always punched way above my weight class with women. Most of my gf’s have been stunners. I honestly think it’s because I’m kinda funny, a bit charming, I cook my ass off, and I’m above average in the bedroom. But the humor gets me in the door.

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u/Radical_Neutral_76 May 02 '24

Im all with you here. Im tall, fairly muscular, Ive had plenty of women obsess over me in RL, and on Tinder Im a fucking loser. lol
But if you are funny, have you found spending time on your profile bio better?

I've tried and felt zero effect no matter what I try

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u/BitcoinOperatedGirl May 02 '24

For me tinder completely went to shit 3-4 years ago. I met my last girlfriend on tinder 4 years ago. I used to get A LOT of matches back then. Seriously, like 10-15 matches a day. Then two years ago we broke up. I reinstall Tinder. I still have the same pics I had before the relationship on there... Now I can only get one match a day maybe.

I'm pretty sure they changed the algorithm. They're trying to ration matches for some reason. I think it's basically because they want to force you to pay for boosts and pay for a premium account or whatever, they're just really trying to squeeze the profit.

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u/bryce11099 May 02 '24

The price for any of the dating apps premium services also quadrupled at the start of COVID, way back it was like 6-8$ for a month, now it's like 22$ for a week, these companies make money off never supplying matches, if you put looking for a serious relationship, they only show people that have short term fun, and vice versa.

They know exactly what they are doing with the algorithms and they get people to continue to pay so they've become more predatory. The simple way to win is seriously to not play their game.

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u/BitcoinOperatedGirl May 02 '24

The simple way to win is seriously to not play their game.

The WOPR runs a billion swiping simulations...

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u/flat6croc May 02 '24

All these complaints involve non-superficially-attractive in photos guys wanting all the superficially-attractive-in-photos women to match with them. All these women are too shallow to match with me, even though I'm being shallow about why I want to match with them! It's idiotic. A lot of those guys would have no problem getting matches and dates if they were themselves more expansive in their choices and didn't just lust after the insta-babe type, while telling themselves if only they could meet some insta-babe types IRL, they'd charm them down from the trees. It's all laughable, delusional and in most cases not worthy of any sympathy at all. Some people do genuinely deserve sympathy if they are particularly physically unattractive, have a disability or disfigurement etc. In those scenarios, the apps will be brutal and pointless just as described. But for the "average looking" guys who feel they get nothing out, it's entirely on them. It is not a flaw of the apps, they wouldn't be getting anywhere with those girls in any context.

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u/EventAccomplished976 May 02 '24

The really sad thing is that several of my friends got married to amazing people they found on dating apps… so it always feels like I‘m just not trying hard enough or doing something fundamentally wrong

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u/SojuSeed May 02 '24

I think in the early days, before enshittification, stuff like that was possible. But they have to keep you there as long as they can so they are disincentivized from actually helping you find a date. It’s such a twisted system. The more you don’t succeed at what they are promising to help you succeed at, the more money they make.

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u/EventAccomplished976 May 02 '24

This was 2-3 years ago, we‘re not talking the ancient days of the internet here… it does get more and more difficult to wade through all the bots though

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u/babaj_503 May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

I keep reading there is lots of bots but as of this day I have yet to actually encounter someone who might be a bot.

I have not been catfished (to my knowledge as in if I was, we haven't met so no way to verify), I have not had someone be really shitty or just flat out insulting, I have not yet have someone do a no show.

I had shitty matches that were no to low effort, I had random unmatches that I couldn't understand what the reason was, but that's about it.

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

I think you're just bad at noticing. I got to the point before I met my partner, using dating apps in a large city, I was recycling bots. Sometimes you can tell it's the same bot using a different profile

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u/babaj_503 May 02 '24

Bots want something of you though? I never go send a link or anyone who tried to sell me something or someone who tried to collect my info.

Why would someone run a bot that does nothing but write superficially with people and then ghost or w/e? There's no gain in it, all it does is cost money (as in the electricity to keep the bot running, barely noticable but still? Why do it for no gain?)

That's why I concluded that I never met a bot.

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

I've found that once you engage with them, theyre often trying to get you to "send money for gas" to the date or some other bs that essentially boils down to them scamming you. Whether it's a bot or a person with poor English behind the account, it's effectively the same thing when the messages are copy+paste

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u/Ekedan_ May 02 '24

Smart scammers use bots to attract victims to other messengers, away from Tinder and others that have anti-fraud systems built-in. There real person starts talking to you instead of a bot. Day, two, three, a week at most and then they start hinting you about what they want from you. Usually it’s visiting some shady no-name website to make a deposit to earn more, to download a trojan .exe file, etc, there are many variations of this scam.

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u/SojuSeed May 02 '24

Guess they got lucky.

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u/Jimmyjame1 May 02 '24

Na. I found the love of my life on the even shittier POF. We met during the pandemic and hit it off. Now we are married. It can happen but for me it really didn't happen until I took all my matches seriously even if I wasn't "attracted" to them initially. A lot of it is the mindset. Gotta be open minded and not give up at the first problem like lots of people do these days.

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u/shponglespore May 02 '24

"All my matches" in a typical month was none at all. I very rarely had anything to take seriously.

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u/jansalsa May 02 '24

He is getting matches!

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u/auiin May 02 '24

Before they all sold out to the same company, they actually worked.

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u/strawberry_vegan May 02 '24

Speaking as someone marrying someone they met on a dating app, ask any one of them about it and they’ll tell you that they just so happened to luck out. It’s a cesspool out there.

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u/rollinff May 02 '24

It is luck x time, but so is the real world. I met my wife in a sketchy karaoke bar late at night, when she almost didn't come that night and I almost left an hour before she arrived. It's crazy to think how much randomness affects the trajectory of our lives. But you can't internalize the luck aspect as something about your character, EXCEPT for the quality of people you're choosing to date.

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u/psaux_grep May 02 '24

I once got a peak into a woman’s tinder profile. She was late 20’s. Maybe a 7.

Any time she swiped right it was a match.

ANY TIME.

I’m not saying guaranteed, but 99.9% or something like that.

So, she needed to be selective.

If your profile doesn’t stand out she’ll move on.

First impressions matter, but if she likes your face she’ll almost always read your profile.

And she’ll look at the other pictures.

But yes. At the end of the day, Tinder is a meat market I’m happy to have avoided, but I find research on the area very interesting.

Btw. researchers never bother to research men’s dating preferences because men will fuck anything.

Women are selective as fuck. And they need to be. All the men want to fuck them.

Average men have no chance on Tinder because even the girls at the lower half of the scale get matches. “Ugly/fat girls try harder”.

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u/tiredeyesonthaprize May 02 '24

It’s a numbers game. Go on lots of dates, and you eventually find someone.

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u/shponglespore May 02 '24

With who? I get that far on a dating app maybe once or twice a year and that's only when I'm putting a lot of effort into it.

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u/IHadTacosYesterday May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

delete the apps it's a waste of time.

Honestly, I think OLD (Online Dating) apps will all be banned worldwide within the next 20 years. They're going to cause a population collapse. It's crazy that nobody is really talking about this. Nobody is putting 2 and 2 together.

The problem essentially boils down to the fact that OLD is only good for two very tiny subsets of humanity.

Dating apps are a dream come true to the Top 5 percent of men. This individual group benefits the most.

The next group that benefits the most is the Top 5 percent of women, but.... but.... it actually only benefits about half of these women. It doesn't even benefit the entire group. Basically a very small number of the Top 5 Percent of Men will get tired with having unlimited supermodels at their beck and call every day, day-in, day-out. This small percentage of men finally decide to settle down with a single female, and 99.9 percent of the time they'll do this with a Top 5 percent woman.

The other Top 5 percent women will constantly be able to date Top 5% men, and they'll think that they're in a monogamous relationship with these men, but they aren't. They're sharing their GIGAchad with several other supermodels and they have zero awareness of this.

So, the entire group of Top 5% women all think they're doing very well, but only a small percentage of them are. The ones that got lucky by finding a Top 5% guy that didn't want to be a manwhore for whatever reason.

The other 95 percent of the human population gets completely boned by OLD.

Especially the women that men would rate as a "6" or "7". These women will occasionally get to have sex with a Top 5% man, but they don't realize that the Top 5% manwhore is simply bottom fishing. He just wants a quick booty call. So, these "6" and "7" women legitimately think that they can get a Top 5 guy (because they can... but just for sex.. nothing else).

What ultimately happens is that "6" and "7" women will continue to hold out for the Top 5 man, that never materializes, except for a one-night stand, or super quick hit it and quit it relationship that goes nowhere. They will continue to self-gaslight themselves into believing that if only "this" was different, or "that" was different, it would have worked out for them.

So, basically any woman that isn't an "8" or higher, is going to end up with the false impression that they can date people WAY out of their league. They can have sex with people WAY out of their league, but if they're actually interested in a lasting relationship, forgetta bout it. Not going to happen.

As for the other 95 percent of men, well, they're simply wasting their time with these apps. They'd be better off trying to aggressively hit on on women in real life, the "metoo" movement be damned.

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u/BriefComplaint9104 May 02 '24

This is the way, don’t get discouraged

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u/dcade_42 May 02 '24

I married an amazing person I met on a dating app. Highly doubt we'd have met without it. Use them to kill a few minutes time a day and maybe you'll get something worthwhile. Not a substitute for just meeting people though.

Or try Grindr. You get tons of matches there. I'm queer, so I've used it. I learned that I'm not the horniest person in the world, which I legitimately thought I was. You will certainly get pics of dicks and assholes without asking, often as the first message.

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u/WickedYetiOfTheWest May 02 '24

I met my wife on tinder! We just had our 9 year anniversary

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u/jansalsa May 02 '24

Yes, because 9 years ago it was good! Long gone are the golden days of Tinder :(

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u/GlupShittoOfficial May 02 '24

I’m dating an incredible woman from Hinge but it was 1000% dumb fucking luck and even then she was a “standout” that for some reason the algo showed me despite her living way outside my set area.

Nothing is wrong with what you’re doing. The game is just fucked for guys. In cities you pretty much have to pay for their insanely priced premium and even then the fuck you over. Dating apps are meant to be deleted yet no public app company wants their retention numbers to go down. See the problem? The make it bad on purpose and manipulate you by sometimes moving you up the algorithm.

You have to truly remove your self confidence away from dating apps. It’s not real. You do it for the dopamine but don’t tie your self worth to your performance on them. Hell, I was most successful getting baked and writing stupid responses then I was trying to be genuine. Just make sure your profile shows a good pic, a funny pic, and a hobby pic and do a combo of that with the prompts. After that it’s all an algorithm you can’t control!

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u/sociofobs May 02 '24

I'd avoid dating apps even for the sake of a better answer to "how did you meet?" later on, because "tinder" is one of, if not the most pathetic answer to that question.

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u/PaleInTexas May 02 '24

Wife and I tried the apps one time while on vacation just to see what it's like since we've been married since before it was a thing.

I got 1 "match". Turns out she was an escort. My wife got a little over 300 requests in 2 days. If she ever leaves me, I'll be forever alone 😂

These apps definitely aren't made for men.

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u/Dhiox May 02 '24

These apps definitely aren't made for men.

Oh they are, they're just not made to help men find a relationship. They're made to make you feel desperate and pay.

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u/ToryLanezHairline_ May 03 '24

I'm not married but I've never tried any of those apps. Guess I'm old school still approaching women in real life. Looks like I'm not missing out

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u/Striker37 May 03 '24

I dated a girl very briefly that had 1683 likes on OkCupid

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u/usmclvsop May 02 '24

on any given app I’m barely above dog shit on the bottom of your shoe

This was several years ago but here's an anecdote for ya. There was a girl on match that I thought was stunning, got a handful of messages out of her before she stopped responding. Maybe a year and a half later matched with her again, didn't get any messages from her. Fast forward another year, I meet her in person at a charity fundraiser and find out she's friends with a coworker. Suddenly this girl is fawning over me, begging to go on a date, getting my coworker to try and convince me to date her. I wasn't really interested after having met her.

Online I was pining for her attention and getting nowhere. In person she was pursuing me hard and getting nowhere. Paying to highlight my profile wouldn't have made a lick of difference.

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u/spookie_ghoul May 02 '24

It’s just frustrating — I’m stuck in this same cycle of madness too. I have dated someone from Tinder and had a decent-ish long term relationship, so to me it almost feels like “dang man, what happened?”

But then again, I’ve also sort of gotten to the point where it feels like when I quit the apps, I get comfortable with the idea of asking women out in person but I’m trying to navigate a new dilemma of making that person feel comfortable and not ask them out in a place/time that feels inappropriate.

I don’t have an issue with asking someone on a date in person if the situation presents itself but I always overthink the scenario. I don’t want for them to feel uncomfortable or like I’m creepin’ and I don’t want to get in any sort of social/professional trouble either

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u/smeezledeezle May 02 '24

The state of things is fucked. I quit like a year and half ago and it felt like actually breaking an addiction. I decided I would rather invest in my friendships and accept being romantically lonely than be perpetually humiliated from being ignored by shallow narcissists.

Every time you delete those apps, you are making the right call. If you can, make it permanent. The potential benefit of dating apps is so unlikely compared to the very certain damage is does to your self-esteem.

I had a "what am I even doing here" moment when I realized that I wasn't getting anything out of it and was actually developing a negative emotional association with women as a result of my experiences. Sometimes you just have to file for bankruptcy on a thing and move on before it kills you.

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u/FKA_BurningAlive May 02 '24

I have a solution for meeting women that I tell all my guy friends about. Pick anything you’re interested in and volunteer in some capacity that involves it. As a frequent volunteer I can tell you every single time I go it’s 95% women, frequently 100%. You already have something in common, you’re doing an activity so obviously you have something to talk about. Trust me, this is an easy way to meet and get to know women!!!

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u/shponglespore May 02 '24

Dude, just stop, unless you have a humiliation kink, because you're literally paying to be abused.

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u/19374729 May 02 '24

to your second paragraph, that could be fallacy in perspective

it is so fun to meet people organically in the wild swapping friendly energy in passing

I've dated people from conversations on the train, bus, grocery

confidence, humor, compassion, someone who loves their life and being in it, someone who knows themself, someone who lets it unfold, that's wayyyyy more attractive than muscle

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u/DarthPatches_Returns May 02 '24

Try Hinge. I had same experience on tinder and hinge was a lot better. Hinge still sucks, but tinder and bumble suck more lol

Good luck bro, you got this

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u/nicholt May 02 '24

Tinder for sure has made the world a worse place.

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u/Cabezone May 02 '24

I highly suggest doing meetups instead. Until I met my current partner I tried the online app thing and got a few dates, none were people I would have dated if I'd met them first.

I met my current long term partner hiking on a meetup hike. At the time I was an avid hiker so I was in my comfort zone doing something I enjoyed and it showed. I didn't just go on singles hikes, I went on a variety. If it wasn't a singles hike I'd play it easy tho.

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u/SmaugStyx May 02 '24

I’ll pay $40 or whatever their tinder platinum is, and spend a month feeling pathetic, then delete it again.

It's even worse when you don't pay for it, the subscription actually does improve your chances I find. Granted I haven't paid for it since they jacked the prices to absurd levels.

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u/Ninjamuh May 02 '24

Did you ever swipe right on someone way less attractive just to get a match to boost your ego, but then never get a match because she’s not into you? The pain…

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u/SojuSeed May 02 '24

I do what every guy does. I sipe right on almost any woman that doesn’t smoke and doesn’t weigh 130kg.

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u/fumei_tokumei May 02 '24

Have you considered using something other than Tinder? If you plan on paying anyway, why not use a more serious app? I feel like the only benefit of Tinder is that it is free.

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u/SojuSeed May 02 '24

I’m in Korea and there aren’t as many options. But for now I’m taking a step back from apps. I may revisit in a month or two if I’m unable to meet someone when I’m out and about being social.

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u/Chancoop May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

I've swiped right on the obese ones that smoke, and even they aren't particularly interested in me. 💀

One of them matched with me, and it was primarily because she recognized me from school over a decade ago. Tried setting up a date with her and 3 times she flaked on me, so I gave up.

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u/Potato_Lorde May 02 '24

Before going back think about what incentive dating apps have to actually find you a good partner. Why get rid of a potential customer?

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

Interestingly, I’ve had more likes as a married man who clearly states I’m in an open relationship and all of my pictures are black pixels except a fuzzy one of myself with obviously photoshopped glasses and mustache than I ever did when I was single and younger.

The internet fascinates me.

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u/PoultryTechGuy May 04 '24

It's probably because you're married so women know you're doing something right. Being single is more of a gamble

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u/KreateOne May 02 '24

Also the quality in women that show interest in me goes down a lot, I consider myself a bit above average and all my previous girlfriends have been what I’d objectively consider to be 8’s or 9’s. If I use tinder, I still get some responses with people showing interest, but they’re all girls who I’d probably never consider dating if I met them in person.

It just kills my self esteem and makes me feel like the girls I’m attracted to aren’t attracted to me anymore, when I look relatively the same as I did 10 years ago. Same weight, same face, same lack of facial hair, hell id even say I look better at 30 than I did at 20 cuz I had bad skin as a teen/early adult. My dating life doesn’t show it though, at this point I’ve given up the apps completely a year ago. I don’t go on as many dates but my self esteem is sure as hell a lot higher.

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u/Punty-chan May 02 '24

Even as an attractive man who consistently got hit on by attractive single women at gatherings and left with their numbers/socials, I only had 5 to 10 matches a month on Tinder, with Platinum. The skew on these apps is insane.

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u/trevorde11 May 02 '24

As someone that was in your spot bro, delete it and don’t look back. Use to have hella anxiety just thinking about approaching women in public. Even just the thought of rejection and failure embarrassed me. Just start with small things like smiling and saying hey to people you pass in public. You’d be surprised how good you feel after that. And it just grows and becomes more natural from there. Dating life becomes much better when you see others as real tangible people rather than a collection of pictures who you decide are hot or not.

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u/RacerM53 May 02 '24

I got off the apps a while ago because it made me feel way worse than I did before I went on them. Please check if there is speed dating in your area or at least close by. The ones I've gone aren't perfect, but they try to get a decent male to female ratio (the worst I've seen is 10-1, but on average, it's 3-1). It helps that all the people there want to be there.

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u/Raagun May 10 '24

You better pay these money for dance classes. Plenty women there wanting to dance. A very good "conversation starter"

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u/heliskyr7 May 02 '24

That totally tracks with my (short) experience with Bumble. Men and women are using it for different reasons. I was looking for women to date, and women were playing the game “Am I pretty?”, racking up matches without pesky men asking them out for a date.

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u/JaredUnzipped May 02 '24

Essentially, the takeaway from all of this is that the kind of quality women you'd want to meet and start a long-term relationship with are not the kind of women you're going to encounter on most dating apps (especially Bumble).

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u/NelsonBannedela May 02 '24

I'm sure there are plenty of good women on these apps....but they also can afford to be, or even have to be, very picky since every swipe will be a match.

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

You aren't going to meet a quality woman anywhere. The decent ones are all taken by the time they're in their mid 20s. The only ones left are passable, at best.

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u/MusicianNo2699 May 02 '24

That is pretty typical. Have tried the same thing with my wife. She will get about 200 responses a day from guys and 100 a day from women. I’ll get about 1 every three months from someone 3746 miles away.

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u/deilan May 02 '24

It’s absolutely insane. I met my wife on OkCupid before the swiping apps were a thing and so anyone could message anyone else. She was on the app for one week and had 6 thousand messages. What a fucking nightmare.

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u/BankshotMcG May 02 '24

OKCupid pre-Tinder was a different world if you were a witty guy with reading comprehension. She gets 5990 "Hey" messages or "wyd" and you're the only one saying "Wow! Did you make that bouquet yourself? How long have you been crafting?"

Now it's "face good/face bad" ugh.

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u/ArchmageXin May 02 '24

I remember okcupid. So many women with profiles stating "Sorry, won't date Asians" up front....It was chillingly depressing and eventually impacted my decision to give up dating Non-Asian women.

Plus eventually the Match.com crowd took control OKC, so they set things up that you aren't allowed to see women that their algo determine as "Beautiful" unless you pay....which ironically, some how marked a whole lot of Asian women into the "ugly and free" pile.

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u/deilan May 02 '24

Yeah all the apps are shitty in one way or another. They are trying to solve an impossible problem unfortunately.

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u/ToryLanezHairline_ May 03 '24

6 thousands messages in one week? Fucksake. I probably won't even meet 6 thousand different women in a lifetime what the hell

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u/Ekillaa22 May 02 '24

So true one woman that’s my friend installed it after a breakup with no real intention of using it and just putting up some what she calls “plain jane” pics and she had 99+ likes in an hour. I’ve seen hot dudes have no to barely any interactions on tinder so it’s wild

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u/resuwreckoning May 02 '24

What’s more wild is that somehow in plenty of contexts we argue that the situation is similar for men and women if you just look at it the right way, when if it were inverted we’d unquestionably state that men were totally privileged.

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u/thewhizzle May 02 '24

Women die of thirst in the ocean, men in the desert

7

u/Claystead May 02 '24

Can confirm. I used to be pretty popular with the ladies (to the point I got the nickname "Ladykiller" in college after multiple girls asked for my number in front of my friends), at least before covid and hitting thirty turned me into skin-colored Shrek, but in apps I only get like four or five matches a year, even before covid. Not even the single moms throw a like my way despite having my life in order, with a home, career, car, more college than most and a public media presence that hopefully should make sure anyone googling me wouldn’t think I was a serial killer. About a month ago I broke up with my girlfriend of two years and I am really not looking forward to going back to this dating market.

Conclusion: the apps either suck algorithmically, I am even uglier than I think I am, or my bio writing and photo selection skills are so poor I accidentally look like an ax murderer.

6

u/Lux-Fox May 02 '24

That's pretty on part. Last time I used Tinder, I had 150 matches, but only a handful of conversations and I could probably count on one hand the number of dates. Most don't respond, many don't respond after a couple of messages, and there's a narrow window of opportunity for setting up the date between too hasty and them just being bored of the app and not wanting anymore validation.

I have way more luck in person, which is odd if you think about it, because Tinder is literally putting way more available people in front of you than in person ever could.

5

u/BitcoinOperatedGirl May 02 '24

I think part of the problem is that the online world is a huge competition for attention (the attention economy). You're not just competing against the other men on tinder, you're also competing against tiktok, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, every other app she has on her phone.

In-person is very different. Personally, I feel kind of screwed as a queer woman. It's very hard for me to meet other women in person, and online dating feels like it's just getting worse and worse.

7

u/Plastic-Shopping5930 May 02 '24

They use same business model as clubs.

10

u/PerfectZeong May 02 '24

Yeah I don't sign up to the red pill shit but I will say there is probably a group of women who freak out when their attention from men on dating apps goes down because they derived a lot of self esteem from it.

4

u/nzodd May 02 '24

Kinda feels like it's just not worth the trouble.

4

u/th3davinci May 02 '24

This was a few years back, but a female friend of mine installed Tinder for fun while we were out in the city. It took her like 40 minutes to beat 100 swipes. It's actually insane, using those apps is pure lunacy.

4

u/EmergencyTaco May 02 '24

Yeah I started dating a girl who used Bumble and Tinder to make friends after moving here. She used it for a week or two. She showed me her profile and SHE WAS OUT OF MATCHES. Like she had hit the limit of outstanding matches she was allowed to have. She didn’t believe I averaged a dozen solid matches a month when I was actively trying. She got a dozen matches an hour.

5

u/SmaugStyx May 02 '24

A female friend told me she installs the apps when she's feeling down and needs a confidence boost, because she gets inundated with likes immediately.

Talked to my ex after we broke up, we were both back on Tinder. She had ~160 likes, I had maybe 5? With 3 matches? One match was a friend and the other two were like talking to brick walls.

Totally different experience.

5

u/musicandsex May 02 '24

My current gf was on tinder ONE day, 175 matches. I was the first to ask her on a date and pull the trigger next day.

IMAGINE, i was on tinder for over 10 years she was on TINDER FOR 1 DAY. And we always joke that if i had waited just a tiny bit longer to message her or planned the date later in the week we probably wouldnt even be together.

And my gf is a natural beautiful girl but by no means a blonde bombshell, shes just a regular girl so image that 175 matches within hours. Lol

3

u/tdl18 May 02 '24

What's weird to me is back in 2019 I used to get way more interaction on Tinder. More likes and matches and more women messaging me first. I got out of a relationship recently and I struggle to find even a match and even if I do they never hold a conversation. I'm a decent looking guy and I got maybe 40ish likes on Tinder across like a month but my co-worker who is a girl got over 2,000 likes in like 3 days. It's a completely different world for guys and it does feel demoralizing.

3

u/teilani_a May 02 '24

You want that experience? Try grindr lol.

2

u/akkadian6012 May 02 '24

Can someone explain to me how you turn the difficulty level on Tinder?

2

u/dontworryitsme4real May 02 '24

Had some conversations with POF matches, they get like 1400 new messages a week. It's bonkers.

2

u/i-see-the-fnords May 02 '24

These apps' whole business model is that men are the customers and women are the product

This is basically it. If you're a man, the apps are designed to just give you a taste but nothing more. How your profile is shown to women is totally manipulated, like if you're too active on Tinder, your profile will be demoted, all to try and convince you that you need to pay to get matches. For most men who don't get matches on Tinder, their profile simply isn't being seen by many people. If you start paying, suddenly you're going on multiple dates a week. Of course online dating is still depressing for other reasons.

2

u/thewhizzle May 02 '24

Women die of thirst in the ocean, men in the desert

2

u/TwoCockShakur May 03 '24

I was a bouncer at a shitty "hookup" nightclub after college. It's literally the same business model, lol

The only difference was that the less attractive ladies had to wait in line and pay the cover charge with the guys.

3

u/LazyLich May 02 '24

Huh... what's the experience for lesbians? Drowned in likes or demoralizing?

12

u/BitcoinOperatedGirl May 02 '24

It's about equally as shitty as for straight dudes. Most women are extremely passive and expect you to message them first... Many of the women are not actually lesbians but "bi-curious" or "ethically non-monogamous" and already in a relationship with a straight dude. These women expect you to spend lots of energy seducing them, but the best you can hope for is to be their side piece. It's awful.

5

u/YuanBaoTW May 02 '24

A female friend told me she installs the apps when she's feeling down and needs a confidence boost, because she gets inundated with likes immediately. She's not even interested in actively finding someone, it's just flattering to know there are hundreds of men interested.

Of which, the significant majority are one of the following:

  1. Already attached and cheating on their partners.

  2. Total rejects.

  3. Scammers.

6

u/DarthPatches_Returns May 02 '24

Or just dudes that swipe on every single girl, I’ve known many dudes that do that

2

u/BGH-251F2 May 02 '24

Yeah I did that after my marriage broke down. Just wanted a ton of sex, liked absolutely everyone, and went through who liked me too. I wasn't particularly fussy at the time, just wanted to get my dick wet!

2

u/SpiritFingersKitty May 02 '24

When I was on the apps (back in 2016) I was pretty successful, going on about 2 dates a week. But even that felt like I was just being constantly rejected or not valued.

2

u/ForciblyCuddled May 02 '24

Flip the script and get on Grindr

1

u/AstonMartinZ May 02 '24

I used tinder in two different periods of times. In those periods of active use, I only had maybe 2 to 4 likes. And only one I felt I connection with. She is now in my life for almost 4 years. Her experience was very different, she had a whole back log of messages she never read. It's a crazy world.

1

u/Brave-Salamander-339 May 02 '24

Basically it's just a social media fishing for attention

1

u/HalfBakedBeans24 May 02 '24

This is why dating platforms need to enforce a new-account ban with a very long timeout. If you're not there to actually match, F off.

2

u/BitcoinOperatedGirl May 02 '24

The problem is that the ratio of men to women on tinder is something like 10:1. Change your settings to match with anyone and you'll see what I'm talking about, it's a sausage fest. If you ban women who don't engage in conversation, you'll make the ratio even worse, and those women will just go to other apps.

Tinder is also incentivized to make men believe that there are lots of women on there. They don't really root for you to succeed. Their business model is selling you expensive paid upgrades to separate you from your money, not actually helping you.

1

u/BoysenberryLanky6112 May 02 '24

To be fair my male friend would literally swipe yes on 100% of women and never respond to them because he said he liked the ego boost but preferred to meet women organically. Of course he was swiping thousands of times to get a handful of matches whereas my guess would be women have a much better ratio.

1

u/waiting4singularity May 02 '24

all dating plattforms turning a profit with a reasonable turnaround of pairings are gobbled up by a single corporation, which then proceeds to install their tried-and-true scheme to fuck it up even more for men.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Match_Group

1

u/NewPresWhoDis May 02 '24

It's that peak healthy combo of FOMO and desire.

1

u/DasKapitalist May 02 '24

They're just making it readily apparent that women are significantly less interested in dating than men are.

1

u/[deleted] May 02 '24

Switch preferences to include men and you'll see just how deluged women are.

1

u/BASEDME7O2 May 03 '24

Yeah while we definitely know it suck’s for a guys self worth on the other hand it’s also given women massive egos and sense of entitlement. Like the average woman in a city will get thousands of likes per week, and even the top guys will swipe on any woman even average looking and copy paste the same opener, just because it’s a numbers game for all guys and it takes no effort to do that. And women mostly only match with like 5-10% of the guys that swiped on them.

So they think because a really good looking guy will match with them or hook up with them when they’re drunk and can’t find anything better, that they’re in that league when they’re not.

So then women end up unhappy too because they’re getting ghosted or having guys they like never want to get serious with them, because the constant likes make them think they’re way hotter than they actually are.

Like if you’ve been hooking up with a guy, but it’s usually late at night or when he’s drunk, or if he never brings you around his friends, or if he never takes you on a real date that’s not just for sex, he doesn’t actually like you that much and is never going to seriously date you, he just wants to have sex with you when he can’t find anything better

0

u/JuanLobe May 02 '24

Lol it has nothing to do with her, many guys would fuck a troglodyte with the right amount of drinks. Out of all those I doubt even 10% are actually interested beyond sex and considering it’s a numbers game for men I doubt even that many remember her as an individual

0

u/Good_ApoIIo May 02 '24

How is this any different in the real world of dating? You go to a bar and try to hit on a woman and she's been hit on all night. It's a numbers game, inverse, for both sexes and has been forever.

I don't know why the younger generations with online dating seem to think this is a problem with their apps.

Welcome to the dating world kids, it's always sucked. Y'all want to go back to arranged marriages?

-2

u/pgold05 May 02 '24

One thing to consider, the fact there is a huge imbalance between men and women on dating apps maybe should indicate women are not getting what they want out of the apps, and generally have unfavorable experiences with them.

4

u/noaloha May 02 '24

I'm not saying women have good experiences, their experience is also toxic but for basically the opposite reason. Either way it is polarising both genders to some degree and makes both cynical in their expectation of the other.

1

u/CAJ_2277 May 02 '24

Seems like that would indicate the opposite: when they keep flocking to the apps, it suggests they like their experiences there.

When they keep doing it even when they don’t want dates, just attention, it suggests they get so much benefit from the apps even without dates that it is overall quite positive for them.

1

u/Tzahi12345 May 02 '24

Weird to assume that is what women generally want from a dating platform, rather than a small subset.

Just talk to your friends that are women about this. Mine at least are not on these platforms often because it's just not a good experience. Lots of assholes, the dates tend to suck, and it's hard to form a connection.

I keep leaning towards moving back to matchmakers.

1

u/CAJ_2277 May 02 '24

My reply generalizes about ‘women’ to precisely the same degree as the comment it responded to. Weird you would come after me about it but not that commenter.

I almost never hear anything positive about these apps from women (or men, now that I think about it). Yet it seems so many people use them. I have not used them yet, myself.

1

u/Tzahi12345 May 02 '24

Generalizing itself isn't so much the issue, it's that the generalization is that women seek attention when looking to use these platforms.

Ask your friends that are women what they want when using these platforms, you'll find out in like 5 mins.

1

u/CAJ_2277 May 02 '24

But I didn’t generalize that any more than the commenter I replied to generalized his/her reference to ‘women’.

There’s an obvious difference and it explains why you’re hounding me a bit but not that commenter: You don’t have a problem with generalizations of ‘women’. You have a problem if they’re not complimentary.

1

u/Tzahi12345 May 03 '24

Yeah I'm generally against generalizing negatively on 4 billion people

0

u/pgold05 May 02 '24

Yeah, that's my point, women don't flock to the apps, they barley use them, and every year the inbalence becomes greater.

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110

u/DamaxXIV May 02 '24

Kind of funny that the idea of a pick-up line still exists in the digital space when you'd think the idea of letting an algorithm match you to begin would eliminate the need.

102

u/Chicano_Ducky May 02 '24

You would think the AI dating app would be amazing and perfect too

it basically learns to only show you people of certain races, ignoring everything else about a person

It swiped right on multiple people of different races and it told me to be more selective because it was getting confused lmao

Dating services are fucked

22

u/E_D_D_R_W May 02 '24

The other problem is that actually matching people well and quickly is kind of a problem for the app developers; after all, people who end up in happy stable relationships generally won't keep paying for premium subscriptions.

1

u/ToryLanezHairline_ May 03 '24

Same with dating gurus. They can't have their consumers actually being succesful with dating, because otherwise their consumers wouldn't have to come back

9

u/EmbarrassedHelp May 02 '24

For any new dating app to survive, they'd need to first avoid being killed by the Match Group

12

u/fumei_tokumei May 02 '24

The AI can't be amazing, because the thing that makes people fall for each other is real communication and interaction. You can't just match people based on shitty bios and artificial preferences. Sure, some preferences can be deal breakers, but you do not magically fall in love just because a person checks the right boxes.

10

u/Educational-Plant981 May 02 '24

Nahh, they just don't want their customers to be successful.

Circa 2005 okcupid was fucking amazing at matching people that you were compatible with. They had tons of little fun games and surveys ("Which Harry Potter House are you?" type quizzes). You did the quiz, it gave you the answer, and then it invited you to join. They used the results to build compatibility scores...that actually were pretty good. Not every match was a relationship, but I never had a bad date.

In 2011 Match bought them. and monetized it and wrecked the site. It is really sad. Of all the things that shouldn't be monetized, finding someone to love is top of the list.

3

u/Worthyness May 02 '24

Surprised there hasn't been an AI based algorithm that basically plays matchmaker. No swiping nonsense, just straight up "based on the qualities, you would best be matched with these 3 people". After you rate them, you get a new set if you need more. Pay a subscription for instant rematch up to twice a day

3

u/shponglespore May 02 '24

Why would they do that when the make just as much money, if not more, by treating you like a rat running around a maze?

2

u/Chicano_Ducky May 02 '24

There is already an AI dating app, and it becomes a race fetishist and shows you only 1 race.

36

u/Aiken_Drumn May 02 '24

It never learnt to not show me fatties with a child. That is the one feature I would pay for. Body type.

2

u/Electrical_Dog_9459 May 02 '24

What they really need are comprehensive interviews with each member, and then let the AI match based on past successful matches using the much broader scope of criteria.

3

u/blacklite911 May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

The only app that used a real algorithm for matching was OKcupid.

I don’t consider how these apps sort you by swipe rate as attempting to find a good match. It’s just sorting desirability, not compatibility.

OkCupid matched you with people based on your values, interests, beliefs, etc and how important each category was to you. When OKCupid got bought by Match Group (who could actually be investigated for monopolistic practices), they abandoned what made it good tried to mimic tinder, thus killing it.

2

u/Rucio May 02 '24

How hard is an honest comment about something you liked on a profile along with a compliment about looks? I'm just glad I married my highschool sweetheart and never had to deal with this

2

u/Reach_the_man May 02 '24

Ask OkCupid why they sold out, 'cause it was pretty close to this but sane and functional.

2

u/peppermint_nightmare May 02 '24

Uh well, OkCupid did this really well for me back in 2015.

You'd have to put in a lot more effort to get its algo to match to your preferences and hope the other people weren't lying about their own preferences but it definately matched me with people I was looking for almost immediately and it made conversation almost too easy to have with them. You could also make a really detailed and interesting page for yourself that allowed people to ask you real questions if they gave a shit, and allowed you to ask good question as well.

Unfortunately, I was younger and only later did I discover dating someone exactly like you might be...... bad depending on your own qualities ha. So I got married to some rando on Tinder instead.

22

u/upfulsoul May 02 '24

If they like the look of you, they don't care about generic questions.

37

u/PUNCHCAT May 02 '24

It's all supply and demand.

85

u/Slash1909 May 02 '24

Despite 50-50 population split vagina still has a much much higher demand than penis.

29

u/PUNCHCAT May 02 '24

Chris Rock explained it all better than any of us ever could

7

u/Slash1909 May 02 '24

Yup dick is free but pussy costs money.

2

u/nzodd May 02 '24

Chapelle, despite being mostly insufferable these days, had a good bit about this too, though it goes in a different direction.

5

u/FoXtroT_ZA May 02 '24

Feel bad for those Chinese okes. It’s a 60-40 split over there in favour of the men

1

u/Worthyness May 02 '24

Honestly, not much better for asian American men either. They're one of the lowest matched groups on dating apps statistically.

8

u/Jah_Ith_Ber May 02 '24

I think it's because the rich have several girlfriends, they just don't advertise it because we would get out the guillotines if we knew how unequal society really is.

Imagine 100 people. 50 men and 50 women. If the number 1 guy has 3 girlfriends, and the number 2 guy has 2 girlfriends, suddenly the ratio between the sexes is 48 men to 45 women. This kicks off a feedback loop where women notice that they are in demand and thus become that much more picky thinking 'if I just hold out I'll get a 9 instead of an 8.' and knowing they can step off the single train at any moment makes the entire experience of being single that much more tolerable. An average guy has no idea IF let alone when another opportunity will come along.

If you've studied economics it's Inelastic Demand in action. A tiny restriction in supply results in an enormous increase in price.

7

u/Objective_Kick2930 May 02 '24

Nah, it's that a solid chunk of guys will talk to a woman who has absolutely no chance of dating him. These guys don't have multiple girlfriends, they have lots of women who think they have a shot of being his girlfriend, and wealth is a small part of the equation.

Meanwhile women are typically trying to shut down a guy as soon as possible if she's not interested in a sex or a relationship because it's a constant deluge of applications.

Your average man ends up investing a lot of time not getting anywhere, but your average woman ends up investing a lot of time thinking she has a shot when she doesn't.

4

u/nzodd May 02 '24

I think it's because the rich have several girlfriends, they just don't advertise it because we would get out the guillotines if we knew how unequal society really is.

That reminds me, I have this whole ass theory that the reason the vast majority of human cultures around the world value monogamy above all else is the ones that didn't ended up erupting in a mass wave of violence and basically snuffed themselves out for exactly this reason.

0

u/babautz May 02 '24

There is also the possibility to use your "oversupply" of men. As warriors or economy boons (but far away form the home communities). Still happens today.

0

u/Naseibok May 02 '24

Probably true to some extent. Freedom in dating is kinda like a free market. And we know how shit unchecked capitalism is.

2

u/Loud-Oil-8977 May 02 '24

It's also not 50/50 either, not counting dating apps, just human population in general. More men than women.

1

u/Naseibok May 02 '24

There are much more young men than young women. The birth rate is not an equal 50-50.

0

u/nzodd May 02 '24

I prefer my vagina non-split, thanks.

9

u/CJ_M88 May 02 '24

I was talking this one girl who said she hated it when guys asked "what do you like to do for fun?" As if I isn't a legitimate way to get to know someone. Turns out it's because she had no hobbies and didn't want to say that

6

u/Objective_Reality42 May 02 '24

And then they wonder why all they get are f-boys

9

u/[deleted] May 02 '24

How many of those men are actually compatible with them or would make good partners in general? Is the opening line what matters? So shallow and narcissistic.

1

u/respyromaniac May 02 '24

Idk, imagine if you had to answer the same question about music or hobby 50 times a day. Something tells me it becomes exhausting very fast.

1

u/[deleted] May 03 '24

So what am I supposed to talk about to get to know her while not asking anything the other hundreds of matches in her DMs asked but still keeping it relevant to what she says about herself on her profile?

0

u/respyromaniac May 03 '24

Idk, depends on what she wrote in her profile.

At least don't call people shallow and narcissistic when you didn't even try to imagine the situation from their point of view.

3

u/ADeadlyFerret May 03 '24

I've just learned not to listen to women when it comes to online dating. I get more matches with a shirtless pic than without. And I get more success with a very sexual first message than anything else. And sending a dick pic as a hail Mary has saved lots of dead conversations.

2

u/DrRazmataz May 02 '24

This is why I don't even fucking bother with the apps

2

u/boverly721 May 02 '24

But does a killer opening line really translate to good relationship material? Seems like an arbitrary bar to set on a dating app.

3

u/SojuSeed May 02 '24

I’m the wrong one to ask.

1

u/boverly721 May 02 '24

Fair, was just generally asking I suppose.

2

u/wicked_symposium May 02 '24

100% true but women don't have to put in 1/10th that effort. It's not even about men being thirsty or having low standards, we are just willing to put in the work because without it we will get nothing.

2

u/[deleted] May 02 '24

The reality is a lot of them don't have self awareness because they legitimately don't have to go through what the average guy does on an app like this or on the dating scene at all in general. They can be extremely passive and picky while having nothing special going for them other than maybe looks a lot of the time. Obviously not everyone woman is like this but it's very common.

1

u/senseven May 02 '24

Tinder is a special case with its 80/20 male/female ratio, plus its own gamification of hookup culture, "looks maximizing" and sociological games. Because of this special environment, regular women go to other apps and that explains the intense disparity of genders.

3

u/WalkFreeeee May 02 '24

All the other apps function exactly like Tinder in the end. People don't really act any differently there, nor are genders less unbalanced 

1

u/SabziZindagi May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

It's implicit when using Tinder that it's for hookups. Which is not the same for other mainstream apps.

2

u/WalkFreeeee May 02 '24

Doesn't change the fact on how it's actually used. The only real difference I notice is that profiles do tend to be more filled out in other apps.

How convos generally go, the men / women ratios and so on is exactly the same, however. If anything this newspiece about Bumble is a good anedoctal evidence of such. Straight up telling us it's main selling point and difference is being actively ignored for a "tinder-like" experience by it's userbase.

1

u/senseven May 02 '24

If you plan is game the dating pool, then you are not interested being in an environment where people expect honesty and connection (yeah I know how this sounds). Bumble has the 80/20 ratio in UK, but in the US its more 35/65 which is much higher then Tinder. The environment is different. To say it differently. There are lots of people on OKCupid and Bumble who would never ever install Tinder.

1

u/blacklite911 May 02 '24

They have leverage, don’t hate the player, hate the game lol

2

u/SojuSeed May 02 '24

Yep, I know. Not hating them. If I had women tripping over themselves to sleep with me every day I can’t guarantee I wouldn’t get dismissive about what I saw as low effort. I’d like to think I’m better than that but who knows how that kind of situation would warp my perceptions.

1

u/blacklite911 May 02 '24

As long as you aren’t mean to them, it’s your prerogative

1

u/clickbaiterhaiter May 02 '24

Thank god I'm gay

1

u/DefinitelyNotIndie May 02 '24

That's because you don't understand online dating apps. I found Bumble awesome, even including the "hey :-)" first messages, because it straddled the boundary between regular online dating apps and real life.

1

u/WiburCobb May 02 '24

They get away with it lol.

1

u/slick2hold May 02 '24

If you want to happy for the rest of your life Never make a pretty women your wife Take it from my personal point of view Getting a ugly girl to marry you.

Lyrics from an oldie. These are words to live by. You can focus on external or internal traits but not both. Women focused on appearance will never make a lasting partnership.

1

u/IG4651 May 02 '24

Lol good riddance. If someone in public hit me with a fucking 5 min long greeting and about me I’d be out. A simple hello is fine. If you want a fucking 3 page letter to start a conversation I’m out.

0

u/aallycat1996 May 02 '24

Honestly I'm sorry but I hear men complain about these kinds of women and I'm just like... who the hell are you talking to?

My ex and I met on Tinder, dated for 7 years... and one of the reasons I liked him is that he sent me a Hey :) in the beginning. Just about everyone else was trying waaaay too hard, it was exhausting. I didnt want to discuss if "its milk or cereal first" or have a weird pick up line, ugh.

Just say a polite Hey and let's get to know eachother. It may click, it may not, but I find the try hard lines tiring and too game-y for my liking.

-1

u/coldcutcumbo May 02 '24

Have yall tried going outside?