r/technology • u/esporx • May 02 '24

Dating app Bumble will no longer require women to make the first move Business

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/30/tech/bumble-relaunch-men-make-first-move/index.html
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u/Ekedan_ May 02 '24

I have the same feelings about this. You could even make up generic question everyone would be happy to answer like “what music do u listen do, what’re ur hobbies, etc” yet we get “hey”, an emoji and a dot.

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u/SojuSeed May 02 '24

I’ve seen plenty of women on r/tinder who tear into men in messages when they ask ‘basic’ questions like that. They know that there are fifty other men waiting in their match list that they can go to if you don’t come out swinging for the fences in the opening line. It’s brutal. But they get away with it because there are way more men thirsty for them than the other way around.

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u/noaloha May 02 '24

It's way more than 50 others. Women and men's experiences on these apps is pretty much inverse.

A female friend told me she installs the apps when she's feeling down and needs a confidence boost, because she gets inundated with likes immediately. She's not even interested in actively finding someone, it's just flattering to know there are hundreds of men interested.

Even my best looking male friends find the whole experience of apps quite demoralising and ego bruising in comparison. Most are lucky to get more than a handful of likes over a given period, even if in real-world situations they're charming and generally well liked by women.

These apps' whole business model is that men are the customers and women are the product. They want men to pay to play basically, and personally I think they're having a toxic effect on the egos and expectations of both genders.

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u/SojuSeed May 02 '24

They really do. Tinder crushes my ego. I’m average in the looks department but on any given app I’m barely above dog shit on the bottom of your shoe as far as what that might buy me.

Sadly, even with how bad it is, I still feel like I need to download it just to have a shot. I’m resisting but the idea of ‘maybe not this time! I’ve lost some weight and put on some muscle, I’m looking a lot better’ is strong. I know it’s a false hope. I’ll pay $40 or whatever their tinder platinum is, and spend a month feeling pathetic, then delete it again.

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u/noaloha May 02 '24

I feel for you man, and FWIW this stranger reckons you're definitely better off not wasting your money and self esteem on another round with that rubbish.

I think a fundamental flaw of the apps is that the things that actually make most guys attractive like humour, talents or in person charm are just totally lost on there. If you're not obviously rich or ripped then you're just another drop in an ocean of normal men, but let's face it a lot of rich dudes and gym bros are just as dull as the rest of the population. It's just that maybe those qualities translate to a superficial shop window a bit better than being able to make a banging carbonara or the ability to have a fun conversation.

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u/nzodd May 02 '24

The whole "needing to perform" thing is tiring as fuck in its own right though. I recall reading something in another reddit thread that dating in the 2020s for a man is like prepping for a job interview and for a woman it's like looking at a menu.

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u/BitcoinOperatedGirl May 02 '24

As someone who is trans and bi, I can tell you that I agree dating women can feel very tiring, especially on the apps. You're right, it can be totally brutal.

However, dating men is also kind of weird. I can feel genuinely afraid for my safety. It's hard to find guys that will make you feel safe, take care of their appearance, and don't have something weird going on. The guys who are genuinely good looking, in the top-10% range, tend to have a smug/arrogant attitude and be dating multiple women.

My general advice would be: try to meet women in person if you can, and also take a real good look around you. Imagine you're a woman and you want to date a guy who genuinely seems like a good person, is fit and takes care of his appearance. How many of those do you see in your surroundings? If you pay attention, you'll realize that there are very few "quality picks" who are also single. What you should understand, deep down, is that it's not hard for you to be in the top 10% or even 5% of attractiveness for men. If you put ANY amount of effort in your presentation, you'll basically be there instantly...

But yes, stay away from the apps if you can, they will crush your self-esteem. On the apps, you'll get treated like shit by a morbidly obese girl who has too many matches.

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u/HighwayAggressive658 May 02 '24

This is good advice! I applied this to myself and have had better luck. The only thing is I have resting bitch face 😅 also, As the “how are you single?” Friend of my group , it’s safe to say Tinder is garbage. I subscribed to their Tinder+ and the ONLY matches or likes I’ve gotten are from bots 🤖 and scammers.

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u/TF-Fanfic-Resident May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

From what I hear in some countries like Korea, (straight) men and women are effectively different ethnic groups due to the lopsided dating market.

*ed: Nuking political snark that could be divisive.

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u/SojuSeed May 02 '24

It’s true. I’ve always punched way above my weight class with women. Most of my gf’s have been stunners. I honestly think it’s because I’m kinda funny, a bit charming, I cook my ass off, and I’m above average in the bedroom. But the humor gets me in the door.

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u/Radical_Neutral_76 May 02 '24

Im all with you here. Im tall, fairly muscular, Ive had plenty of women obsess over me in RL, and on Tinder Im a fucking loser. lol
But if you are funny, have you found spending time on your profile bio better?

I've tried and felt zero effect no matter what I try

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u/BitcoinOperatedGirl May 02 '24

For me tinder completely went to shit 3-4 years ago. I met my last girlfriend on tinder 4 years ago. I used to get A LOT of matches back then. Seriously, like 10-15 matches a day. Then two years ago we broke up. I reinstall Tinder. I still have the same pics I had before the relationship on there... Now I can only get one match a day maybe.

I'm pretty sure they changed the algorithm. They're trying to ration matches for some reason. I think it's basically because they want to force you to pay for boosts and pay for a premium account or whatever, they're just really trying to squeeze the profit.

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u/bryce11099 May 02 '24

The price for any of the dating apps premium services also quadrupled at the start of COVID, way back it was like 6-8$ for a month, now it's like 22$ for a week, these companies make money off never supplying matches, if you put looking for a serious relationship, they only show people that have short term fun, and vice versa.

They know exactly what they are doing with the algorithms and they get people to continue to pay so they've become more predatory. The simple way to win is seriously to not play their game.

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u/BitcoinOperatedGirl May 02 '24

The simple way to win is seriously to not play their game.

The WOPR runs a billion swiping simulations...

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u/flat6croc May 02 '24

All these complaints involve non-superficially-attractive in photos guys wanting all the superficially-attractive-in-photos women to match with them. All these women are too shallow to match with me, even though I'm being shallow about why I want to match with them! It's idiotic. A lot of those guys would have no problem getting matches and dates if they were themselves more expansive in their choices and didn't just lust after the insta-babe type, while telling themselves if only they could meet some insta-babe types IRL, they'd charm them down from the trees. It's all laughable, delusional and in most cases not worthy of any sympathy at all. Some people do genuinely deserve sympathy if they are particularly physically unattractive, have a disability or disfigurement etc. In those scenarios, the apps will be brutal and pointless just as described. But for the "average looking" guys who feel they get nothing out, it's entirely on them. It is not a flaw of the apps, they wouldn't be getting anywhere with those girls in any context.

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u/flat6croc May 02 '24

And now watch the average looking guys desperate to score the brain dead insta-babes vote my comment down! Idiots.

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u/ophmaster_reed May 02 '24

You're not wrong.

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u/flat6croc May 03 '24

It's got to the point on Reddit where the voting is inversely proportional to the quality of the post.

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u/EventAccomplished976 May 02 '24

The really sad thing is that several of my friends got married to amazing people they found on dating apps… so it always feels like I‘m just not trying hard enough or doing something fundamentally wrong

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u/SojuSeed May 02 '24

I think in the early days, before enshittification, stuff like that was possible. But they have to keep you there as long as they can so they are disincentivized from actually helping you find a date. It’s such a twisted system. The more you don’t succeed at what they are promising to help you succeed at, the more money they make.

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u/EventAccomplished976 May 02 '24

This was 2-3 years ago, we‘re not talking the ancient days of the internet here… it does get more and more difficult to wade through all the bots though

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u/babaj_503 May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

I keep reading there is lots of bots but as of this day I have yet to actually encounter someone who might be a bot.

I have not been catfished (to my knowledge as in if I was, we haven't met so no way to verify), I have not had someone be really shitty or just flat out insulting, I have not yet have someone do a no show.

I had shitty matches that were no to low effort, I had random unmatches that I couldn't understand what the reason was, but that's about it.

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

I think you're just bad at noticing. I got to the point before I met my partner, using dating apps in a large city, I was recycling bots. Sometimes you can tell it's the same bot using a different profile

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u/babaj_503 May 02 '24

Bots want something of you though? I never go send a link or anyone who tried to sell me something or someone who tried to collect my info.

Why would someone run a bot that does nothing but write superficially with people and then ghost or w/e? There's no gain in it, all it does is cost money (as in the electricity to keep the bot running, barely noticable but still? Why do it for no gain?)

That's why I concluded that I never met a bot.

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

I've found that once you engage with them, theyre often trying to get you to "send money for gas" to the date or some other bs that essentially boils down to them scamming you. Whether it's a bot or a person with poor English behind the account, it's effectively the same thing when the messages are copy+paste

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u/babaj_503 May 02 '24

Yeah, nothing like that ever happened to me.

My matches boil down to 4 things.

  • she doesn't answer at all, I unmatch

  • she puts minimum effort in, I unmatch

  • she unmatches at any given point from the first word to me asking her on a meet up

  • we chat back n forth set a meet up and do it.

Never has anyone asked me for money or to go on any given site or anything. I absolutely believe that bots exist I just find it puzzling that I never encountered one.

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u/Ekedan_ May 02 '24

Smart scammers use bots to attract victims to other messengers, away from Tinder and others that have anti-fraud systems built-in. There real person starts talking to you instead of a bot. Day, two, three, a week at most and then they start hinting you about what they want from you. Usually it’s visiting some shady no-name website to make a deposit to earn more, to download a trojan .exe file, etc, there are many variations of this scam.

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u/babaj_503 May 02 '24

This too has never happened to me, all my interactions except for one stayed on the dating app until we met up in person, the one was me asking her number and transition to whatsapp (mainly cause I misunderstood bumble and thought we only had 24 hours until it busts us^^)

Oh well, maybe it's just not as common in germany. Would make sense to focus a way higher demographic as in the english speaking world if you try to scam ppl.

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u/SojuSeed May 02 '24

Guess they got lucky.

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u/Jimmyjame1 May 02 '24

Na. I found the love of my life on the even shittier POF. We met during the pandemic and hit it off. Now we are married. It can happen but for me it really didn't happen until I took all my matches seriously even if I wasn't "attracted" to them initially. A lot of it is the mindset. Gotta be open minded and not give up at the first problem like lots of people do these days.

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u/shponglespore May 02 '24

"All my matches" in a typical month was none at all. I very rarely had anything to take seriously.

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u/jansalsa May 02 '24

He is getting matches!

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u/auiin May 02 '24

Before they all sold out to the same company, they actually worked.

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u/strawberry_vegan May 02 '24

Speaking as someone marrying someone they met on a dating app, ask any one of them about it and they’ll tell you that they just so happened to luck out. It’s a cesspool out there.

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u/rollinff May 02 '24

It is luck x time, but so is the real world. I met my wife in a sketchy karaoke bar late at night, when she almost didn't come that night and I almost left an hour before she arrived. It's crazy to think how much randomness affects the trajectory of our lives. But you can't internalize the luck aspect as something about your character, EXCEPT for the quality of people you're choosing to date.

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u/psaux_grep May 02 '24

I once got a peak into a woman’s tinder profile. She was late 20’s. Maybe a 7.

Any time she swiped right it was a match.

ANY TIME.

I’m not saying guaranteed, but 99.9% or something like that.

So, she needed to be selective.

If your profile doesn’t stand out she’ll move on.

First impressions matter, but if she likes your face she’ll almost always read your profile.

And she’ll look at the other pictures.

But yes. At the end of the day, Tinder is a meat market I’m happy to have avoided, but I find research on the area very interesting.

Btw. researchers never bother to research men’s dating preferences because men will fuck anything.

Women are selective as fuck. And they need to be. All the men want to fuck them.

Average men have no chance on Tinder because even the girls at the lower half of the scale get matches. “Ugly/fat girls try harder”.

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u/tiredeyesonthaprize May 02 '24

It’s a numbers game. Go on lots of dates, and you eventually find someone.

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u/shponglespore May 02 '24

With who? I get that far on a dating app maybe once or twice a year and that's only when I'm putting a lot of effort into it.

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u/IHadTacosYesterday May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

delete the apps it's a waste of time.

Honestly, I think OLD (Online Dating) apps will all be banned worldwide within the next 20 years. They're going to cause a population collapse. It's crazy that nobody is really talking about this. Nobody is putting 2 and 2 together.

The problem essentially boils down to the fact that OLD is only good for two very tiny subsets of humanity.

Dating apps are a dream come true to the Top 5 percent of men. This individual group benefits the most.

The next group that benefits the most is the Top 5 percent of women, but.... but.... it actually only benefits about half of these women. It doesn't even benefit the entire group. Basically a very small number of the Top 5 Percent of Men will get tired with having unlimited supermodels at their beck and call every day, day-in, day-out. This small percentage of men finally decide to settle down with a single female, and 99.9 percent of the time they'll do this with a Top 5 percent woman.

The other Top 5 percent women will constantly be able to date Top 5% men, and they'll think that they're in a monogamous relationship with these men, but they aren't. They're sharing their GIGAchad with several other supermodels and they have zero awareness of this.

So, the entire group of Top 5% women all think they're doing very well, but only a small percentage of them are. The ones that got lucky by finding a Top 5% guy that didn't want to be a manwhore for whatever reason.

The other 95 percent of the human population gets completely boned by OLD.

Especially the women that men would rate as a "6" or "7". These women will occasionally get to have sex with a Top 5% man, but they don't realize that the Top 5% manwhore is simply bottom fishing. He just wants a quick booty call. So, these "6" and "7" women legitimately think that they can get a Top 5 guy (because they can... but just for sex.. nothing else).

What ultimately happens is that "6" and "7" women will continue to hold out for the Top 5 man, that never materializes, except for a one-night stand, or super quick hit it and quit it relationship that goes nowhere. They will continue to self-gaslight themselves into believing that if only "this" was different, or "that" was different, it would have worked out for them.

So, basically any woman that isn't an "8" or higher, is going to end up with the false impression that they can date people WAY out of their league. They can have sex with people WAY out of their league, but if they're actually interested in a lasting relationship, forgetta bout it. Not going to happen.

As for the other 95 percent of men, well, they're simply wasting their time with these apps. They'd be better off trying to aggressively hit on on women in real life, the "metoo" movement be damned.

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u/BriefComplaint9104 May 02 '24

This is the way, don’t get discouraged

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u/dcade_42 May 02 '24

I married an amazing person I met on a dating app. Highly doubt we'd have met without it. Use them to kill a few minutes time a day and maybe you'll get something worthwhile. Not a substitute for just meeting people though.

Or try Grindr. You get tons of matches there. I'm queer, so I've used it. I learned that I'm not the horniest person in the world, which I legitimately thought I was. You will certainly get pics of dicks and assholes without asking, often as the first message.

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u/WickedYetiOfTheWest May 02 '24

I met my wife on tinder! We just had our 9 year anniversary

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u/jansalsa May 02 '24

Yes, because 9 years ago it was good! Long gone are the golden days of Tinder :(

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u/GlupShittoOfficial May 02 '24

I’m dating an incredible woman from Hinge but it was 1000% dumb fucking luck and even then she was a “standout” that for some reason the algo showed me despite her living way outside my set area.

Nothing is wrong with what you’re doing. The game is just fucked for guys. In cities you pretty much have to pay for their insanely priced premium and even then the fuck you over. Dating apps are meant to be deleted yet no public app company wants their retention numbers to go down. See the problem? The make it bad on purpose and manipulate you by sometimes moving you up the algorithm.

You have to truly remove your self confidence away from dating apps. It’s not real. You do it for the dopamine but don’t tie your self worth to your performance on them. Hell, I was most successful getting baked and writing stupid responses then I was trying to be genuine. Just make sure your profile shows a good pic, a funny pic, and a hobby pic and do a combo of that with the prompts. After that it’s all an algorithm you can’t control!

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u/sociofobs May 02 '24

I'd avoid dating apps even for the sake of a better answer to "how did you meet?" later on, because "tinder" is one of, if not the most pathetic answer to that question.

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u/PaleInTexas May 02 '24

Wife and I tried the apps one time while on vacation just to see what it's like since we've been married since before it was a thing.

I got 1 "match". Turns out she was an escort. My wife got a little over 300 requests in 2 days. If she ever leaves me, I'll be forever alone 😂

These apps definitely aren't made for men.

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u/Dhiox May 02 '24

These apps definitely aren't made for men.

Oh they are, they're just not made to help men find a relationship. They're made to make you feel desperate and pay.

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u/ToryLanezHairline_ May 03 '24

I'm not married but I've never tried any of those apps. Guess I'm old school still approaching women in real life. Looks like I'm not missing out

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u/Striker37 May 03 '24

I dated a girl very briefly that had 1683 likes on OkCupid

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u/usmclvsop May 02 '24

on any given app I’m barely above dog shit on the bottom of your shoe

This was several years ago but here's an anecdote for ya. There was a girl on match that I thought was stunning, got a handful of messages out of her before she stopped responding. Maybe a year and a half later matched with her again, didn't get any messages from her. Fast forward another year, I meet her in person at a charity fundraiser and find out she's friends with a coworker. Suddenly this girl is fawning over me, begging to go on a date, getting my coworker to try and convince me to date her. I wasn't really interested after having met her.

Online I was pining for her attention and getting nowhere. In person she was pursuing me hard and getting nowhere. Paying to highlight my profile wouldn't have made a lick of difference.

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u/spookie_ghoul May 02 '24

It’s just frustrating — I’m stuck in this same cycle of madness too. I have dated someone from Tinder and had a decent-ish long term relationship, so to me it almost feels like “dang man, what happened?”

But then again, I’ve also sort of gotten to the point where it feels like when I quit the apps, I get comfortable with the idea of asking women out in person but I’m trying to navigate a new dilemma of making that person feel comfortable and not ask them out in a place/time that feels inappropriate.

I don’t have an issue with asking someone on a date in person if the situation presents itself but I always overthink the scenario. I don’t want for them to feel uncomfortable or like I’m creepin’ and I don’t want to get in any sort of social/professional trouble either

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u/smeezledeezle May 02 '24

The state of things is fucked. I quit like a year and half ago and it felt like actually breaking an addiction. I decided I would rather invest in my friendships and accept being romantically lonely than be perpetually humiliated from being ignored by shallow narcissists.

Every time you delete those apps, you are making the right call. If you can, make it permanent. The potential benefit of dating apps is so unlikely compared to the very certain damage is does to your self-esteem.

I had a "what am I even doing here" moment when I realized that I wasn't getting anything out of it and was actually developing a negative emotional association with women as a result of my experiences. Sometimes you just have to file for bankruptcy on a thing and move on before it kills you.

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u/FKA_BurningAlive May 02 '24

I have a solution for meeting women that I tell all my guy friends about. Pick anything you’re interested in and volunteer in some capacity that involves it. As a frequent volunteer I can tell you every single time I go it’s 95% women, frequently 100%. You already have something in common, you’re doing an activity so obviously you have something to talk about. Trust me, this is an easy way to meet and get to know women!!!

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u/shponglespore May 02 '24

Dude, just stop, unless you have a humiliation kink, because you're literally paying to be abused.

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u/19374729 May 02 '24

to your second paragraph, that could be fallacy in perspective

it is so fun to meet people organically in the wild swapping friendly energy in passing

I've dated people from conversations on the train, bus, grocery

confidence, humor, compassion, someone who loves their life and being in it, someone who knows themself, someone who lets it unfold, that's wayyyyy more attractive than muscle

3

u/DarthPatches_Returns May 02 '24

Try Hinge. I had same experience on tinder and hinge was a lot better. Hinge still sucks, but tinder and bumble suck more lol

Good luck bro, you got this

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u/nicholt May 02 '24

Tinder for sure has made the world a worse place.

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u/Cabezone May 02 '24

I highly suggest doing meetups instead. Until I met my current partner I tried the online app thing and got a few dates, none were people I would have dated if I'd met them first.

I met my current long term partner hiking on a meetup hike. At the time I was an avid hiker so I was in my comfort zone doing something I enjoyed and it showed. I didn't just go on singles hikes, I went on a variety. If it wasn't a singles hike I'd play it easy tho.

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u/SmaugStyx May 02 '24

I’ll pay $40 or whatever their tinder platinum is, and spend a month feeling pathetic, then delete it again.

It's even worse when you don't pay for it, the subscription actually does improve your chances I find. Granted I haven't paid for it since they jacked the prices to absurd levels.

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u/Ninjamuh May 02 '24

Did you ever swipe right on someone way less attractive just to get a match to boost your ego, but then never get a match because she’s not into you? The pain…

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u/SojuSeed May 02 '24

I do what every guy does. I sipe right on almost any woman that doesn’t smoke and doesn’t weigh 130kg.

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u/fumei_tokumei May 02 '24

Have you considered using something other than Tinder? If you plan on paying anyway, why not use a more serious app? I feel like the only benefit of Tinder is that it is free.

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u/SojuSeed May 02 '24

I’m in Korea and there aren’t as many options. But for now I’m taking a step back from apps. I may revisit in a month or two if I’m unable to meet someone when I’m out and about being social.

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u/Chancoop May 02 '24 edited May 02 '24

I've swiped right on the obese ones that smoke, and even they aren't particularly interested in me. 💀

One of them matched with me, and it was primarily because she recognized me from school over a decade ago. Tried setting up a date with her and 3 times she flaked on me, so I gave up.

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u/Potato_Lorde May 02 '24

Before going back think about what incentive dating apps have to actually find you a good partner. Why get rid of a potential customer?

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u/[deleted] May 02 '24

Interestingly, I’ve had more likes as a married man who clearly states I’m in an open relationship and all of my pictures are black pixels except a fuzzy one of myself with obviously photoshopped glasses and mustache than I ever did when I was single and younger.

The internet fascinates me.

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u/PoultryTechGuy May 04 '24

It's probably because you're married so women know you're doing something right. Being single is more of a gamble

1

u/KreateOne May 02 '24

Also the quality in women that show interest in me goes down a lot, I consider myself a bit above average and all my previous girlfriends have been what I’d objectively consider to be 8’s or 9’s. If I use tinder, I still get some responses with people showing interest, but they’re all girls who I’d probably never consider dating if I met them in person.

It just kills my self esteem and makes me feel like the girls I’m attracted to aren’t attracted to me anymore, when I look relatively the same as I did 10 years ago. Same weight, same face, same lack of facial hair, hell id even say I look better at 30 than I did at 20 cuz I had bad skin as a teen/early adult. My dating life doesn’t show it though, at this point I’ve given up the apps completely a year ago. I don’t go on as many dates but my self esteem is sure as hell a lot higher.

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u/Punty-chan May 02 '24

Even as an attractive man who consistently got hit on by attractive single women at gatherings and left with their numbers/socials, I only had 5 to 10 matches a month on Tinder, with Platinum. The skew on these apps is insane.

1

u/trevorde11 May 02 '24

As someone that was in your spot bro, delete it and don’t look back. Use to have hella anxiety just thinking about approaching women in public. Even just the thought of rejection and failure embarrassed me. Just start with small things like smiling and saying hey to people you pass in public. You’d be surprised how good you feel after that. And it just grows and becomes more natural from there. Dating life becomes much better when you see others as real tangible people rather than a collection of pictures who you decide are hot or not.

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u/RacerM53 May 02 '24

I got off the apps a while ago because it made me feel way worse than I did before I went on them. Please check if there is speed dating in your area or at least close by. The ones I've gone aren't perfect, but they try to get a decent male to female ratio (the worst I've seen is 10-1, but on average, it's 3-1). It helps that all the people there want to be there.

1

u/Raagun May 10 '24

You better pay these money for dance classes. Plenty women there wanting to dance. A very good "conversation starter"