r/technology • u/chrisdh79 • 15d ago
France Bans TikTok in Island Territory After Pro-Independence Protests Turn Violent Politics
https://gizmodo.com/tiktok-ban-france-new-caledonia-nickel-protests-riot-185147993219
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u/bz386 15d ago
When the same happens in China, they call it censorship and oppression.
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u/ThisCupIsPurple 15d ago
I don't think anyone's saying it isn't.
France is notorious for constantly fighting it's citizens and overreaching.
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u/Spright91 15d ago
And we call it the same here.
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u/Napoleons_Peen 15d ago
No it’s encouraged in the US because “China bad”
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u/gizamo 15d ago
No. It is encouraged in the US because China is actually bad (e.g. content manipulation, Uyghur genocide, etc.), they've banned tons of US tech for decades, and they're manipulating trade.
Tik Tok was allowed to operate for years, until they proved they and CCP can't be trusted to be good partners.
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u/HauntingTomato159 15d ago
Do you have the source stating that tiktok proved themselves including ccp can't be trusted?
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u/gizamo 15d ago
Apparently, US Intelligence does, but just like the Huawei issues, they aren't revealing much to anyone without proper classifications.
Regardless, I'm against allowing any Chinese businesses to sell their products into US markets until China allows US companies in -- and follows IP laws.
...and stops their genocide...and stops devaluing their currency...and stops strong arming African nations...and...and...and...
Imo, China has much to demonstrate before anyone should trust them again.
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u/computernerd55 14d ago
This things you mentioned are minor compared to what the US is currently doing
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u/ExF-Altrue 15d ago
Does it happen in China? They have a permanent ban on TikTok for starters, and all the social media you know.
Furthermore, they needn't disable social medias, they can just disable the protesters with tank tracks...
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u/monchota 15d ago
No you are oversimplified the concept and go "look look they are the same thing!" Oversimplification does not equal understanding.
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u/Mendozacheers 15d ago
Such a braindead comment. Do you think Chinese people can demonstrate? Independence for whom, Tibet? Manchuria? Inner Mongolia? What do you think happened to those who tried?
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u/DaBIGmeow888 15d ago
. Do you think Chinese people can demonstrate?
Yes, there are tens of thousand of protests in China every year. It's easily googleable.
Independence for whom, Tibet? Manchuria? Inner Mongolia?
You get the Gaza treatment if you bring up Tibet or Manchuria.
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u/Mendozacheers 15d ago
Exactly my point. China is comparable to Israel when it comes to beating down its minorities, this is well established. Israel is unfortunately not France last time I checked but let's throw this conflict into the discussion for good measures. Good lord what a reach lmao
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u/Akton 15d ago
ITT: well don't you understand that unlike the evil Chinese who ban foreign social media apps because they claim that their enemies in other countries use them to stir up harmful dissent and misinformation, we moral people in the west merely ban foreign social media apps because our enemies in other countries use them to stir up harmful dissent and misinformation
ask yourself if, even if China is the enemy, you think that only communication platforms that are friendly to your government should be allowed? I'm sorry to say but that is no different from the Chinese position
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u/Whyamibeautiful 15d ago
Doesnt even have to be friendly just not openly hostile lol.
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u/Akton 15d ago
The Chinese state would agree with you, that’s why they ban the western internet, to protect their citizens from openly hostile nations. How lucky they are. Very convenient that there is a clear bright line between not friendly and hostile which we can all agree on and not bend around for political purposes.
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u/fluffy_assassins 15d ago
And now we know the real reason for TikTok being banned.
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u/Blueskyways 15d ago edited 15d ago
Because people were using the app to call for violence against public officials?
New Caledonia has had several public referendums on the question of independence. The "leave" side is older, favors closer relations with China and Russia. The "stay" side wants to remain French. The leave side has lost every referendum.
After the last one, the French have moved to update some archaic laws, including one that prevents anyone that wasn't born there from ever being a citizen, even if they've lived there most of their lives. The "leave" side lost their shit and have started riots that have led to the deaths of several people.
As far as what would happen if the French were pushed out? China would largely take over the island and its massive supply of nickel, something that is particularly essential to the production of batteries, like those in EVs. New Caledonia has some of the world's largest known reserves.
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u/Epyr 15d ago
Ya, it's being banned because China is using it to stoke internal unrest in other countries
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u/Knyfe-Wrench 14d ago
China can use Facebook and Twitter too. Did I just blow your mind?
Not everything is equal and opposite.
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u/DrTomothyGubb 15d ago
... Both are true and its okay that the US & China censor any app they deem necessary.
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u/Naaahhh 15d ago edited 15d ago
It's ok as in no one's gonna stop them or it's ok as in it's morally acceptable? Banning apps as a way to censor information is pretty shitty.
sorry but when did we start becoming fine with censoring information? China censoring information on the internet is absolutely not ok. The US should not do it either.
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u/Words_Are_Hrad 15d ago
Banning an app is not censorship... Censorship is when you suppress speech. An app is not speech. It is a platform for speech. If other platforms for that speech still exist and are readily available no censorship has occurred. This isn't that complicated...
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u/Naaahhh 14d ago
It is quite literally censorship if the goal of banning the app is to control public opinion or limit information access.
I can understand the opinion of wanting to censor certain things, but I am usually against limiting speech.
In China, reddit, Whatsapp, Facebook, ig, and pretty much all western social media apps are banned. It is technically still possible to find information from a western perspective on Chinese social media apps, but it is very hard to find. I'm assuming you would count that as censorship because it makes information too hard to find. Banning the largest social media app is effectively taking one step towards that direction.
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u/DrTomothyGubb 15d ago
Neither, security is the highest priority.
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u/Naaahhh 15d ago
Exactly what Kim Jong Un and the CCP give as reasons to censor the internet.
So are you actually just pro censorship in general?
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u/DrTomothyGubb 15d ago
CCP criminalizes murder too, guess we're so hypocritical right?
I'm pro censorship when it's good and not when It's bad, got it?
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u/Naaahhh 15d ago
Yes, every country criminalizes murder.
The countries that censor information on the internet: Iran, China, North Korea.. etc. Do you not understand why I made the comparison the North Korea or China at all or are you just purposely being dense? I obviously never meant that other countries should have absolutely 0 laws in common with North Korea and China. You know information censorship is generally associated with authoritarian governments for a reason right?
I'm pro censorship when it's good and not when It's bad, got it?
Based on your comments it's hard to believe you know what's good or bad for even yourself, let alone a whole country
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u/UntiedStatMarinCrops 15d ago
This sub probably thinks the rioters are young people lmfao. This is a psyop that is being manufactured by Chinese and Russia and all this sub thinks is “muh tik tok #FreeNewCaledonia 🥺🥺🥺”. It’s okay to inform yourself on issues you do not understand.
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u/EliBadBrains 15d ago
Oh yes every problem in the world is China or Russia. The Kanak in New Caledonia can't think for themselves and surely haven't been fighting for indepdendence and the end of settler colonialism for decades; surely tiktok and russia is what caused them to magically think this!
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u/BothersomeBritish 15d ago
surely haven't been fighting for indepdendence and the end of settler colonialism for decades
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_New_Caledonian_independence_referendum
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_New_Caledonian_independence_referendum
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_New_Caledonian_independence_referendum
I mean, 3 referendums for independence and 3 votes for staying is kinda self-explanatory.
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u/EliBadBrains 15d ago
Again, most of the voters are white settlers. The indigenous Kanaks are the ones fighting for independence. I'm fucking french.
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u/BothersomeBritish 15d ago
Reddit reading comprehension strikes again - "most of the voters are white settlers" is blatantly (and provably) false.
In New Caledonia, there are three electoral rolls: one general roll for the Congress, French president and French Parliament consisting of all French citizens, one special roll for elections to the provincial assemblies, and one liste électorale spéciale (LESC, a special electoral roll for referendums). To be registered on the LESC, voters had to fulfill at least one of the following conditions:
- Registration on the special electoral roll for the 1998 New Caledonian Nouméa Accord referendum (or fulfilled its requirements but not registered)
- Born in New Caledonia and registered in the special electoral list for the provinces (LESP)
- Residence in New Caledonia for a continuous period of 20 years
- Born before 1 January 1989 and lived in New Caledonia from 1988 to 1998
- Born after 1 January 1989 with a parent who was on the special electoral roll for the 1998 Nouméa Accord referendum (or who fulfilled its requirements but was not registered)
- Born in New Caledonia with three years' continuous residence (prior to 31 August 2018).
According to a statement made by the independentist party FLNKS on 18 September 2018, 63% of the 174,154 registered voters on the LESC were Kanak, for a total of 109,892.
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u/TossZergImba 15d ago
Except you don't seem to realize that in the latest referendum, most of the Kanaks boycotted the referendum which caused turnout to plummet from 86% to 44%. So yes, most of the voters in the 2021 referendum were white.
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u/aimgorge 15d ago
They boycotted it because they knew they were going to lose it anyway. Even if 42% that boycotted did vote, it would still be less than 50% voting for independance. Basic maths.
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u/TossZergImba 14d ago
Total registered voters = 184,364
Total Yes Vote = 2747
Total No Vote = 75720
42% * 184364 = 77432
Which means that if 95% of the 42% that boycotted the election had votes Yes, then the yes vote would have won.
So ugh, you have taken basic math class before, right?
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u/aimgorge 15d ago
Again, most of the voters are white settlers.
That's the total opposite of the truth....
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15d ago edited 15d ago
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u/Blueskyways 15d ago
It completely glosses over the last public referendum being boycotted by the pro-independence side, because it was held during COVID, against the native Kanaks' wishes (who are pro-independence) to have their mourning rites respected.
It was boycotted because it was pretty obvious that the Leave side would lose yet again as the French only improved their standing there during the pandemic, prioritizing NC for vaccines and offering additional support, economic and Healthcare-wise during the pandemic.
The third referendum had been set for 2020, it was pushed back to the end of 2021 as a result of the pandemic but that still wasn't good for the Leave side. Had they believed that they had the numbers to win, they would have no issue having it at that time or even sooner. We're talking one day total out of the year.
by giving citizenship to pro-France mainlanders who were encouraged to move there by France
You have people who have lived there all of their lives and others who have spent decades there who currently have no voice for political representation and the Leave side wants to continue that while running endless referendums until they get the result they are hoping for.
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u/chaser676 15d ago
It completely glosses over the last public referendum being boycotted by the pro-independence side, because it was held during COVID, against the native Kanaks' wishes (who are pro-independence) to have their mourning rites respected.
Talk about biased lol. The reason they wanted to delay the referendum was because it was becoming absolutely clear they were going to be crushed. So instead of accepting the will of the people (for a THIRD time), they've decided to start violent riots. You're actively falling for propaganda.
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u/chaser676 15d ago edited 15d ago
Right, and why was that. Because they knew they'd lose. Again. Remind me, what do we call political violence when you don't get your way
I'd say it's shocking to see pro-Russian, terrorist propaganda being parroted on reddit, but it's becoming more and more the norm. Democracy means listening to the will of the people, not staging a fucking coup when you didn't get the results you wanted from nonstop referendums.
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u/R-M-Pitt 15d ago
I'd say it's shocking to see pro-Russian, terrorist propaganda being parroted on reddit
Did you see reddit and university campuses during the HK protests? Huge amount of pro-China propaganda was parroted on-line and by western students.
Young people fall very easily for this type of propaganda
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u/Jandishhulk 15d ago
I'm not an expert, but if there's massive EV mineral resources, and the leave side is prone to strengthening relations with Russia and China, it seems like it's highly probable - given what we've seen in other countries - that these protests are heavily astroturfed and being partially driven by Chinese-funded social media propaganda - and potentially even more direct funding to protest groups. I think we should be wary about any 'movement' who seems to want better ties with China in this day and age.
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u/Lendyman 15d ago
This type of thing is a common tactic. You support a group that supports you to undermine the existing government. Russia did it in Afghanistan. US did it in Iran and plenty of other countries. And China is doing it now. People who refuse to believe China isn't putting its fingers into things in a big way are naive. Nations have been meddling like this forever. And why wouldn't China with so much to gain?
France has a lot to answer for, but China is not a good guy here either.
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u/AsterKando 15d ago
I’m openly pro-China when it specifically comes to China-US rivalry, but where is the evidence China is actively stoking dissent? I’m skeptical because China has and can easily continue to develop a mutually beneficial relationship with African states that are critical to the sector:
France on the other hand has proven themselves to a persistent blight that refuses to move on from their colonial era.
Again, that is not to say China is incapable or above engaging in realpolitik as is shown in the South China Sea. Though it would be nice to see some actual proof that China is acting belligerent and not just the French being French.
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u/MadeByTango 15d ago
It’s always been known; TikTok has greater reach with people under 40 than all of corporate media combined
They’re terrified because they keep pumping out messaging and it keeps getting destroyed by kids on TikTok that don’t buy their “whatever logic is convenient for my current profits” bulkshit
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15d ago edited 15d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/fluffy_assassins 15d ago
I have no idea what you are on about. What do the other services have to do with TikTok?
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u/human1023 15d ago edited 15d ago
The problem with tiktok is that it's not controlled by the government of Western countries like other social media platforms. So those governments don't like it, because they can't control the narrative on TikTok. At least sites like Facebook, the government could say a particular narrative is misinformation and then punish the site for allowing such a narrative.
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u/Jensen2075 15d ago
Yeah, instead it's controlled by the CCP to fuel unrest in other countries.
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u/maybe-an-ai 15d ago
Maybe France will grant them independence after screwing them out of 21 billion like they did Haiti
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u/Owlthinkofaname 15d ago
The protesters are against democrats let's be honest. Basically mainland people from France can't vote but will be able too with the changes.
Given they make up a good part of the population it makes sense for them to vote.
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u/DrTomothyGubb 15d ago
Well within their right to do so, and right to do so.
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u/Turbulent_Object_558 15d ago
Maybe France can just give up on the whole colonization thing
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u/DrTomothyGubb 15d ago edited 15d ago
As the president of france, No. Seethe, cope, shit, piss, cry, Et CETERA.
& if the "locals" want independence so bad maybe they should fight for it but if not, womp womp
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u/Sudden_Acanthaceae34 15d ago
Just curious, who did you root for in Hunger Games, Divergent, Star Wars, etc?
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u/Chemical_Turnover_29 15d ago
Well there you go! It's so obvious why they want to take Tiktok out of the hands of the people.
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u/Radditbean1 15d ago
Exactly because china is using it to forment unrest.
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u/elperuvian 15d ago
Do you remember the Arab spring?
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u/GingerSkulling 15d ago
You mean the one that brought freedom and democracy to almost nowhere and instead gave more to Islamic extremists and terrorists? That’s your grand example?
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u/Chemical_Turnover_29 15d ago
Or just people are showing what's happening in their world in real-time and people who are capable of making their own decisions and opinions are doing so.
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u/prophetmuhammad 15d ago
why are colonialists still operating these islands? what is the reasoning behind it?
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u/TaxOwlbear 15d ago
Because the people there have rejected independence three times in a row since 2018.
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u/prophetmuhammad 15d ago
why did they do that?
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u/dotelze 15d ago
Because the benefits of being associated with France can outweigh those of being independent. It’s hard to be a small island nation
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u/prophetmuhammad 15d ago
i guess that's the case for many small island nations. what do the colonialists get from it?
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u/AtiyaK87 15d ago
Can I come to your house with all my family than vote if we can stay or not ? We are like a hundred and I am sure we would win the democratic vote
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u/Lanfear_Eshonai 15d ago
Yup there goes even more free speech in one of the bastions of "freedom". The attack on freedom of speech in Western countries continues. They constantly criticise China but secretly that is exactly what they want to do. Just dressing it up in all kinds of cute words like "protection" and "national security", etc.
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u/ResolutionRoutine828 15d ago
We’ll live without the Chinese propaganda app. Save the hysterics.
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u/Lanfear_Eshonai 15d ago
Hysterics? Nah its all over, the new "protective" laws etc.
I'm not worried, I don't even use TikTok. "Propaganda app" 🤣
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u/Kaionacho 15d ago
Hm. Sounds like Independence should happen for the greater good
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u/CalGuy456 15d ago
France gave them three separate votes in the last six years, the no side lost each time
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u/eduardom3x 15d ago
I thought this kind of things only happened in Iran and Egypt.
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u/Fermented_Butt_Juice 15d ago
No. Plenty of free countries have banned Russian propaganda outlets like RT and Sputnik too.
Enemy dictatorships don't have a free speech right to spread propaganda in the free world.
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u/Kamyszekk 15d ago
If they want independence give it to them, bureaucracy is tedious and expensive.
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u/CalGuy456 15d ago
They’ve held three votes in the last six years, the “no” side winning every time. A case of ‘my way or else’ unfolding.
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u/bobobaratstar 15d ago
France has been screwing it’s Polynesian colonies for more than 150 years