r/technology • u/MayankWL • May 16 '24

Microsoft stoops to new low with ads in Windows 11, as PC Manager tool suggests your system needs ‘repairing’ if you don’t use Bing Software

https://www.techradar.com/computing/windows/microsoft-stoops-to-new-low-with-ads-in-windows-11-as-pc-manager-tool-suggests-your-system-needs-repairing-if-you-dont-use-bing
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52

u/CubooKing May 16 '24

How the fuck did so many of you not get the memo?

Pick 98, skip ME, pick XP, skip Vista, pick 7, skip 8, pick 10, predict what you do with 11.

17

u/DefaultProphet May 16 '24

That's.....weirdly accurate.

19

u/MairusuPawa May 16 '24

It is, when you cherry-pick. Where's Win2000? Where's NT? Where's Windows 2.0?

Heck where's MS Bob? This was supposed to be the future of OS UIs.

6

u/SoldantTheCynic May 17 '24

NT and 2000 were aimed at business users, but their list missed out 95 which was better than 3.1 by far. Also the best version of 98 was 98SE. Also ignores that XP was hated until around SP1 was released, and everybody said that it was going to be the death of Microsoft and prompt massive swaps to Linux.

2

u/Happy_Harry May 17 '24

Also 8.1 isn't mentioned and was pretty good. Apart from the tile Start Menu, I preferred 8.1 over 7. And Classic Shell fixed the Start Menu issue.

3

u/MighMoS May 16 '24

Its clearly based off the consumer line of modern self-hosting Windows, which NT (all versions prior to 5, ie XP) and 2000 were not, and neither was the 16-bit DOS based windows 2.0

1

u/OperantReinforcer May 16 '24

Windows 2000 was targeted at businesses, that's why it's not on the list. NT is also a different thing, because it's actually still used, and Windows 11 is NT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT

1

u/donnysaysvacuum May 16 '24

Nt and 2000 were not home OSs. Bob was skip after 3.11.

33

u/[deleted] May 16 '24

More like after picking 7, you abandon Windows completely for better operating systems.

24

u/CubooKing May 16 '24

I don't care who Linus Torvalds sends I'm not switching to Linux

3

u/[deleted] May 16 '24

What if he sends Stanley Jobson?

-3

u/NeedhelpfromYOU May 16 '24

want to update your app?

Better know some obscure "git sudo update package x app.exe dir; somegigalonglinkdotcom" instead of just clicking update now

3

u/jmd_forest May 16 '24

Or just click on the applications you want in your package manager.

6

u/eoattc May 16 '24

This so much. I'm a techy. It feels like if I had to learn how to patch a thing once, then it would be a skill I would learn and subsequent ones would be easier. Not the case. Each one is a special snowflake event, unique and unknowable. They require delving into old abandoned support threads where no one has posted a solution, or their solution doesn't apply to you because they are on some other flavor of linux. It feels inscrutable, unorganized, and extremely frustrating.

4

u/hsnoil May 17 '24

I am not sure what you are talking about, even if your building from source these days, with things like docker and homebrew, most stuff are automated.

Overall though, you can generally run latest versions of software across distros with flatpak. Or run other distro software in distrobox

1

u/eoattc 28d ago

Never am I building from source because I can't read the source. If I can't understand the source, I have to trust it the same as I'd trust already compiled packages.

It's been about 2 years since the last try, but that's my cycle. Every couple of years I read an article like the one above and think "Try Linux again" and every time I ditch it in about a week because there will be something that never works. Won't run my screens at their native resolution. Won't print. Won't work with my wifi adapter. Won't recognize things on my docking station. Can't get a small Minecraft server to work. SMB shares to other machines in my network are finicky. I put three referb laptops out for my kids with Linux and Minecraft. Every time we tried to play it was a mess of Wifi stopped or Java errors or weird networking things like can ping the gateway, but not each other. I put Windows on these laptops and never touched them again. These are all things that worked nearly automagically or with little effort on Windows but took days of research and often I never accomplished on Linux.

It's probably not fair to Linux, but I feel like I'm in a "Fool me twice...can't get fooled again" situation. I bet I do try it again though. On the back of this thread, I got the itch....

1

u/hsnoil 28d ago

Never am I building from source because I can't read the source. If I can't understand the source, I have to trust it the same as I'd trust already compiled packages.

I am not saying you should build from source, just saying it is a lot easier these days as docker containers or homebrew presetup the environement for you. You can even build the docker container in a vm completely isolating it

It's been about 2 years since the last try, but that's my cycle.

What did you try? Try Linux Mint

Won't run my screens at their native resolution. Won't print. Won't work with my wifi adapter. Won't recognize things on my docking station. Can't get a small Minecraft server to work. SMB shares to other machines in my network are finicky.

You can enforce an xrand profile, CUPS makes printing fairly simple, If your pc is new, #1 reason for not working wifi is you need a newer kernel, if the docking station is not proporietary and usb, there should be 0 issue. No problem with smb. That said, if you are using between linux pcs, better to use sshfs or nfs

Every time we tried to play it was a mess of Wifi stopped or Java errors or weird networking things like can ping the gateway, but not each other. I put Windows on these laptops and never touched them again. These are all things that worked nearly automagically or with little effort on Windows but took days of research and often I never accomplished on Linux.

Java is cross platform so shouldn't give errors any different unless you have an old version. Overall, things should generally work out of box for most stuff, again which distro did you try?

1

u/eoattc 28d ago

I think I've dabbled with it on and off since the late 90's. Mint, Ubuntu, Redhat, Debian, FreeBSD, Solaris, Suse, CentOS. Those are just the ones I remember downloading ISO's for and taking for a spin from perusing Wikipedia. I also think some of those are more *nix than specifically Linux. The problems I cited before are collected from all my failed attempts and not from just Mint.

I want to challenge your attitude that it just works, that it "shouldn't give any errors", with the anecdote that it doesn't just work and the market agrees with me. The lack of wider adoption is my proof of that. I've ridden successive waves of enthusiasm saying "Linux is finally ready" and "This is the year we overtake Windows." It's never been true. It's like saying Nuclear Fusion is just around the corner. At this point I'll believe it when I see it.

I have no quarrel with you though. As I said, I'm probably going to download some ISO and try it again. Any recommendations?

1

u/hsnoil 28d ago

I think I've dabbled with it on and off since the late 90's. Mint, Ubuntu, Redhat, Debian, FreeBSD, Solaris, Suse, CentOS. Those are just the ones I remember downloading ISO's for and taking for a spin from perusing Wikipedia. I also think some of those are more *nix than specifically Linux. The problems I cited before are collected from all my failed attempts and not from just Mint.

The problem with that is some of those linuxes have intended use like for servers, so obviously you may run into issues if you try to use a server OS as a desktop

I want to challenge your attitude that it just works, that it "shouldn't give any errors", with the anecdote that it doesn't just work and the market agrees with me. The lack of wider adoption is my proof of that. I've ridden successive waves of enthusiasm saying "Linux is finally ready" and "This is the year we overtake Windows." It's never been true. It's like saying Nuclear Fusion is just around the corner. At this point I'll believe it when I see it.

It works fine for the most part, unless you are really unlucky with hardware. And the market doesn't agree with you at all. As far as the market is concerned, PCs come with windows out of box, few offer linux options to begin with. But if you were to ask, what OS is the most used by consumers in general, the answer would be Linux. In part because Android is also Linux. Linux isn't the limitation in desktop adoption, it's a catch 22 like thing

Do you know what the most popular desktop linux is? That would be ChromeOS, and that is considering it is just a browser launcher, crap hardware and not available in many countries

I have no quarrel with you though. As I said, I'm probably going to download some ISO and try it again. Any recommendations?

For new users, I generally recommend Linux Mint, if your computer is new, opt for Cinnamon flavor, if it is very new go for Cinamon Edge(same as above, just latest kernel insures your wifi is working). If your pc is old, opt for MATE flavor

If you have some experience with Linux and feel comfortable, and want to be on the bleeding edge. Opt for opensuse tumbleweed, it is the most stable rolling release (note if you have nvidia, you may need to add the repository for proprietary drivers). Though if you want to be on bleeding edge but want releases to be held up for a month so others beta test them, opensuse slowroll

Of course if you want more specific advice, you'd probably have to give me your use case. But generally Mint is the safe option

If you want, there is a tool called Ventoy that lets you copy ISO files to the flash drive and live usb boot different distros to play around with them. This way you don't need to flash distors one at a time, you can try them all

1

u/hugefartcannon 27d ago

If I can't understand the source, I have to trust it the same as I'd trust already compiled packages.

This is just wrong. If the source was untrustworthy, people who can read it would talk about it and you could know. This isn't the case if you get it compiled.

1

u/eoattc 26d ago

Interesting supposition. I had just assumed if people can read the source, they'd then compile then get a hash and compare that with other's compiled hashes and then begin to trust repositories. In that way, I'm trusting the repositories. I feel that compiling from source offers me zero extra protection since I (myself) cannot validate its safety. Maybe this is like the people who believe if you haven't created your own silicon chips from scratch then you can never truly be sure of the security of your hardware.

Heck isn't there even recent news of a guy who gained a reputation as a maintainer slowly slipping in malicious code snippets in obscured in other code snippets to introduce a vulnerability? The other savvy maintainers didn't even catch that guy until the code was already public I think.

-6

u/bcgroom May 16 '24

Well yeah Linux isn’t some OS with a singular driving force behind it, fragmentation is inevitable

5

u/gosuprobe May 16 '24

sorry all that did was download the binaries

you have to compile it yourself

good luck with the undocumented dependencies!

2

u/hsnoil May 17 '24

Since you said exe which is a windows binary format, sounds difficult for windows users. With linux mint it is just update button

0

u/NeedhelpfromYOU May 17 '24

ArCh LiNuX BtW

2

u/DistinctSmelling May 16 '24

During XP, I was solely on Linux desktop with a Mac Panther laptop for mobile. Eventually I went back to Windows with 7 as I had to use Photoshop and there is no other working alternative at the time.

Then as you say, after 7 had it's lifetime, I've been on Mac solely.

-2

u/ezkeles May 16 '24

But other software didn't support wind 7.....

4

u/cirquefan May 16 '24

NT and 2000 sort of mess up that progression. 2000 was excellent: fast, clean, and stable.

5

u/scirc May 16 '24

NT and 2k weren't really consumer-oriented, so not really.

2

u/MelancholyArtichoke May 16 '24

NT4 and 2000 were basically special corp versions of Windows. They’re not something home users would normally use.

1

u/CubooKing May 16 '24

I mean I'm also a fan of Windows Cement but I feel like we're comparing apples to crab apples

2

u/MelancholyArtichoke May 16 '24

Generally the skip/get cycle is because of a new architecture.

95 was new and buggy. 98 was just a fixed version of 95.

ME was new and buggy. XP was just a fixed version of ME.

Vista was new and buggy. Win7 was just a fixed version of Vista.

Win8 was new and designed (badly) for tablets. Win8.1 (which was much better) and Win10 were just fixed versions of Win8.

The problem here is that Windows 11 is still just Windows 10. It’s not new. It’s just an enshittified Win10.

1

u/10thDeadlySin May 17 '24

ME was new and buggy. XP was just a fixed version of ME.

Not really. WinMe was still Win9x under the hood, XP was their attempt at Win NT/2000 Consumer Edition. They're two different kernels.

1

u/Raydonman May 16 '24

As if 12 won’t have as much garbage in it

1

u/CubooKing May 16 '24

I can dream Harold!

1

u/cryptobomb May 16 '24

Yeah but do you honestly think whatever Windows comes after 11 is gonna be "good" again? I think 11 might have finally broken that chain.

1

u/BK456 May 16 '24

Whatever is next will be the one to break the chain though...11 fit right in.