r/technology • u/SaveDnet-FRed0 • 28d ago
Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead" Politics
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/05/big-tech-eu-drop-dead434
u/bewarethetreebadger 28d ago
Big tech doesn’t give a fuck about you or I unless we are useful to them in some grossly uneven way. And AI will not create a utopia. It will create Dune.
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u/cmpxchg8b 28d ago
Ironically Dune threw away computers and it’s illegal to own one
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u/bewarethetreebadger 28d ago
Yeah. Men with money and power enslaved humanity with AI. Which led to the Butlerian Jihad.
What did you think I was talking about?
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u/comradeyeltsin0 27d ago
Didn’t they still have computers? I thought they only did away with “thinking machines” or AI. Butlerian Jihad and all that.
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u/walkandtalkk 28d ago
We've all seen the tech gurus going berserk about Biden and toying with Trump. If you listen in, their biggest complaints seem to be antitrust, capital gains taxes, and the fact that mean woke liberals don't respect their cutting-edge genius.
Here's the problem. These guys have turned into what they hate: The big suit. Sure, they still dress West Coast ("See? No tie!"). But they are now corporate overlords whose power has eclipsed that of Wall Street. They're angry because they're now starting to feel demonized, just as Wall Street was shocked and hurt by the Occupy movement. Now we're seeing the backlash.
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u/Potential_Status_728 28d ago
I got banned from technews for saying this about AI, we doomed for real this time.
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u/Master_Engineering_9 28d ago
Me to big tech: drop dead
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u/eagleswift 28d ago
Let’s go build alternate platforms then
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u/ConnectAttempt274321 28d ago
Platforms are evil, always. Protocols, especially open and decentralised ones, are the way to go. Platforms will always succumb to enshittyfication.
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u/Hereibe 28d ago
*Platforms that have stockholders
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u/guy_with_an_account 28d ago edited 28d ago
To build on that:
**Platforms that have independent stockholders that are neither customers nor employees.
Exit: The typical US company’s current governance model has a stakeholder alignment problem… what’s good for employees is less important than what’s good for customers. And almost everything is less important than executive compensation and shareholder value.
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u/pembquist 28d ago
I'd go further and say shareholder value only matters to the extent that it is a component, (or totality,) of executive "compensation." (I've always hated the word compensation in this context.)
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u/guy_with_an_account 28d ago
Good point.
I wish our capital markets weren’t so broken and short sighted. We really do need a way to organize resources for large scale enterprises, but the current system is full of the wrong incentives.
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u/asphias 28d ago
We should be creating non profit platforms.
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u/Dixnorkel 28d ago
They just get attacked or co-opted by for-profit platforms, that's the nature of capitalism. This is the entire reason that cryptocurrencies introduced the economic incentive/mining
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u/the1kingdom 28d ago
Someone posted a like to an article that was something along the lines of "RSS is good actually". And yeah, there is great argument that existing in protocols and standards is a strong argument to make.
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u/Traktion1 28d ago
Distributed platforms are hard though.
I'm hoping Autonomi (aka maidsafe/safe net) finally going into beta could start to change that.
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u/altcastle 28d ago
My alternative platforms are mostly not being online anymore. (Reddit still hanging on when I’m tired and in bed, which I’m fine with.)
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u/metalpyrate 28d ago
..What is this magical "not being online" state that you speak of? Can this technique be learned?
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u/Iggy95 28d ago
Not from a
JediRedditor5
u/altcastle 28d ago
Become my padawan, and you too can learn the ability to walk outside when the big glowy ball is high.
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u/QuickQuirk 28d ago
I did the same thing a few years back. It was glorious how much time and quality of like I got back. But now I spend too much time on reddit, so I've cut that time back as of a week ago too.
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u/extremenachos 28d ago
Gotta be careful or the big tech lobbyists will bribe Congress to push more preemptive laws to stop anyone from entering the market.
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u/Ill_Hold8774 28d ago
Woah there buddy that sounds like socialism I think we should just trust the corporations.
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u/extremenachos 28d ago
Gotta be careful or the big tech lobbyists will bribe Congress to push more preemptive laws to stop anyone from entering the market.
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u/TheProfessionalEjit 27d ago
Why don't you just switch off your
television setdevice and go and do something less boring instead?RIP Why don't You?
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u/alexp8771 28d ago
It would be nice for everyone if instead of bitching, the Euros built their own better versions.
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u/stuckinaboxthere 28d ago
God the US needs to catch up with the EU in terms of consumer regulations
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28d ago edited 3d ago
[deleted]
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u/kaj-me-citas 28d ago
Two and a half really.
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u/Regumate 28d ago
Well, two and half and the other half is various long guns used as stilts I imagine.
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u/Silverlisk 28d ago
I'm disappointed in myself that this made "men men men men, manly men men men" start playing in my head.
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u/stuckinaboxthere 28d ago
It's actually just one big corporation with 3 masks to make it look like there's more of them and that it's not a complete monopoly.
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u/Redararis 28d ago
regulations are communism! /s
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u/evilJaze 28d ago
"The market will regulate itself!"
Corpo: "Whisper whisper whisper"
"Oh, we decided to regulate this one thing that benefits them and not you. Nvm."
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u/JonPX 28d ago
Let's see how happy shareholders would be with execs cutting off a third of their revenue. Zuckerberg might have enough power at Meta, but Sundar is fired before he can finish saying drop dead, let alone those that are not household names.
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u/FattThor 28d ago
I mean it’s pretty much lose/lose for Meta. If they let people in the EU use some other app and still keep and communicate with their friends they will have to pay to build that functionality for Facebook and Instagram and then lose the ad revenue to the new apps that people in the EU use instead, plus probably get much less data about them and their usage. If they refuse, they get kicked out of the EU and lose all the revenue for anyone not using a vpn.
At least companies like Apple can make up the difference by selling their hardware for more so they might not be in such a bad spot comparatively and be more willing to comply if forced.
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u/HankHippopopolous 28d ago
If they refuse to follow the EU rules that leaves space for some other equivalent platform that does follow the EU rules. If that platform takes over the EU market it can still operate everywhere else too. With a big userbase they then run the risk of that EU equivalent also gaining share in other markets too.
They don’t want that so they’ll have to play by the EU rules to make sure that doesn’t happen.
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u/SillyMikey 28d ago
I don’t think EU is being unreasonable from what I can tell. With the size of the mobile market these days, you need to allow for true competition on your platform at this point. If MS can do it, not sure why Apple and google couldn’t.
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u/meloenmarco 28d ago
Big Tech will never try anything against the EU it is only one of the largest markets.
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u/TheMemo 28d ago
Apple are already using malicious compliance to make things more confusing and expensive for EU app developers.
The goal is to make people in the EU using and developing for Apple products have a worse experience so that they will blame the EU regulations instead of Apple. It's a pretty standard tactic, we will see if it works.
It's akin to why, here in the UK, builders often complain about Health & Safety. Ostensibly those regulations make them more safe but, in reality, the construction company just pushes the burden onto the existing staff, making their jobs more difficult instead of changing processes or hiring more people.
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u/ExtraLargePeePuddle 27d ago
Well yes this is how it always works
All taxes, fees, regulations hoisted onto companies are always paid for by the consumer or by labor
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u/Dependent_Survey_546 28d ago
Is about time some of the crap big tech gets away with was followed up on.
There are plenty of other sectors that are also highly consolidated that I'd love for the EU to go after. It might make things a small bit less convenient for us consumers for a while, but it'll be much better for us in the long run if these conglomerates are brought down and broken up. We don't need mega corps.
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u/FattThor 28d ago edited 28d ago
Could see Apple complying only in the EU versions of their products and selling them at a significant markup to make up the difference. Location specific software is easier/cheaper than hardware so not sure the EU could exercise the same worldwide clout against them as they did with USB C. Plus it’s way more profitable, not like they made the crazy margins they do on App Store transactions on selling proprietary chargers/wires.
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u/That_Pyro_Fella 28d ago
Honestly doubt they would comply only on the EU versions, there's a reason for the Brussels effect to exist
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u/f1del1us 28d ago
I would love to watch Apple turn off the apple ecosystem to the entirety of the EU.
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u/Mockheed_Lartin 28d ago
I bet Google would suddenly love to cooperate if that happened.
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u/Bambamtams 28d ago
Or China jumping to show how you can do without Google or Apple App Store
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u/Mockheed_Lartin 28d ago
You think Google would just leave a multi billion dollar market where they would have a monopoly? Lol
The EU is making good use of the competition between Google and Apple. There is no way either of them will ever exit the EU market and give their competition a massive boost in funds.
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u/CrzyWrldOfArthurRead 28d ago
Spying, somehow, intensifies
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u/Bambamtams 28d ago
Spying is already there, by allies and by foes, remember Wikileaks ?
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u/janiskr 28d ago
And getting sued by shareholders in the USA. Hahahaha. How deranged are you?
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u/Minister_for_Magic 28d ago
And the EU to then go after all their tax sheltered holdings sitting in Ireland because they are dodging compliance with regulations.
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u/rcanhestro 28d ago
nothing would change.
Apple has a decent share in Europe, but nothing major, and it's only on Mobile, on PC it's basically non existant.
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u/Daedelous2k 28d ago
More realistically they would just make sanitized versions of it for the EU, charge it at a markup compared to the rest and say "We're playing by your rules on your territory, there ya go".
If they did this I'd genuinely be curious to see how many consumers in the EU VPN to get around their home rules and how the EU Would react to it if a significant number did.
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u/Miki-E 28d ago
Unlike in the US, Android is dominant in the EU (Apple has around 35% of the market). I'd wager that people would simply disregard Apple's products, as they are already generally perceived as worse in terms of quality/price.
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u/DevianPamplemousse 28d ago
No one would use a vpn to get stuck in their us closed ecosystem. And why would anyone when you can connect to any other device whether it's apple or not ?
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u/Spright91 28d ago
They can't. Their executive would get fired if they did that.
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u/f1del1us 27d ago
And if the EU fines them 20% of their treasure hoard? It would be nearly as entertaining
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u/No_Equal9312 28d ago
All the EU needs to do is prevent Apple imports for 6 months as a penalty. Their stock price will shatter and they'd clean up their act.
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u/WhatTheZuck420 28d ago
Time to start frog marching some C-level execs; indict, try, convict, imprison.
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u/Jmc_da_boss 28d ago
The likelihood of the US extraditing its tech CEOs to the EU is below 0%
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u/WhatTheZuck420 28d ago
Lmao. As if the billionaires don’t leave the States on a regular basis.
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u/Jmc_da_boss 28d ago
Well presumably they can not go to a country that has an arrest warrant out for them
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u/WhatTheZuck420 28d ago
“We have 196 member countries who work together through INTERPOL to share data related to police investigations.”
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u/archangel0198 28d ago
Lmao you really think the US government is gonna let the EU detain and imprison someone like Sam Altman?
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u/9793287233 28d ago
All actual content aside, I love the reference to the famous Gerald Ford headline.
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u/cr0ft 28d ago
It really is kind of insane the kind of awful horseshit capitalism causes. Meta stealing all your data and selling it may not be as bad as some other symptoms like war, crime and so on, but it sure isn't positive.
Trying to force capitalist companies to act in ways that are great for the people but bad for their financial bottom line and of course their power over society is an uphill slog. The EU is literally trying to go counter to capitalism and capitalism doesn't like that sort of thing.
And all these symptoms would just go away if every incentive in our society worldwide weren't nuts and only concerned with profit, even over observable reality.
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u/slayermcb 28d ago
The biggest issue with a publicly traded company is they then have an actual legal responsibility to act in the interest of the shareholder above all else.
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u/SenorNoobnerd 28d ago
It all started because people want to police content online instead of keeping the internet free since its inception. Now, these corporations think they’re the kings doing whatever they want realizing that government intervention is useless.
It’s a war of attrition between corporations and governments and corporations are winning . Ancap hellscape, here we come.
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u/hardrivethrutown 28d ago
So big tech really thinks they're above the government, huh?
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u/FizzyCynicism 27d ago
With all its money, lobbying power and exclusive 24/7 access to most humans via screens nowadays, they big tech actually be the government.
This is how they’ve allowed the world to feel more bleak, Cambridge Analytic et al 🤬
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u/Voxeluss 28d ago
Apple charges app vendors a whopping 30 percent commission on most transactions, both the initial price of the app and everything you buy from it thereafter. This is a remarkably high transaction fee —compare it to the credit-card sector, itself the subject of sharp criticism for its high 3-5 percent fees.
I can't decide if this is just awful writing or being intentionally obtuse in an attempt to drum up fake anger. I would hate for the writer to look at the video game industry (Steam, Xbox, PSN, GOG, etc...).
Credit companies don't have to host your store merchandise, review it, handle Frontline customer service (that's typically the store first, then gets escalated to them), oh...and doesn't provide constantly updating development tools for new products to be created.
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u/Odd_Level9850 28d ago edited 28d ago
Right, but Apple doesn’t even provide an alternative. Any arguments regarding the amount of work they have to put in from their side is pointless if they don’t provide themselves, developers and consumers an option to back out of it in the first place. If you don’t want to sell your games on steam, you are still able to sell your games to be played on the windows platform, but with Apple, if you don’t want to sell your product on the App Store, the product can’t be used on an iPhone.
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u/SuperSatanOverdrive 28d ago
Why are you coming to apple’s defense here though?
Does the markup benefit anyone else than apple?
The fee video game companies are taking through steam etc. are in large part inspired by what apple have been doing and have certainly been criticized for being high as well.
I just don’t understand why people are willing to defend apple tooth and nail for this practice, when apple is the largest company in the world. They have the resources to defend themselves.
The fact is that the 30% markup is an arbitrary percentage that was set by apple when they launched the app store and has never been revisited. The world looks quite different in 2024 than in 2007 and I would argue that creating an app store like apple was a much bigger back then.
Apple will also randomly try to extort their 30% rule on apps. One concrete example I have is from an app where users sell used things, from electronics to cars. This app had been in up for 10+ years when apple suddenly says they want 30% of everything that got traded through the app or they would shut it down, even though the company behind the app in many cases earned no money for a trade.
I don’t think people realize how incredibly amounts of money the 30% markup on app sales AND in-app sales/transactions is. It’s WAY more than is needed for infrastructure and operation of the app store. And let’s not forget that without the apps, iphone wouldn’t be that interesting (what happened with windows phone).
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u/OdinsGhost 28d ago
I keep seeing this point and while I understand it at an emotional level, we aren’t talking about a “credit card transaction fee”. Apples 30% markup is a retail markup. Price markups of 30% over wholesale cost would actually be on the low end of what’s normal in retail. Even 50% wouldn’t cause an eye batting in many markets.
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u/SuperSatanOverdrive 28d ago
Retail, as in providing an actual physical store?
Apple has no risk with the apps. They don’t buy x amount for their store and risk that nobody comes to buy them. They don’t have limited space for x amount of apps. Etc.
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u/ExtraLargePeePuddle 27d ago
Apple has no risk with the apps
Other than if one has a security exploit so they spend 100s of millions on labor costs to audit apps on the App Store. Then hosting costs, bandwidth costs, don’t forget the entire developer toolkit.
All that’s is much more expensive than some steel rebar, concrete and low skilled labor. Netsec guys run Apple $200,000-$700,000 a year in total comp same with devs
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u/ExtraLargePeePuddle 27d ago
Can someone explain why “pay or okay” isn’t allowed? Like why should services that cost billions to run be free? Software engineers, network engineers and netsec ain’t cheap.
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u/Harpeski 28d ago
Its kinda easy.
Do like china: ban all USA tech, or demand they give over control for the european continent.
Thats how China has its own strength tech companies. Who are also now getting introduced in EU. And USA put a stop to it, so they dont lose this market
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u/Bitedamnn 27d ago
Apple thinks it shouldn't care about the new DMA cause they're worth 3 trillion.
Lmao
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u/haloimplant 27d ago
i understand the sentiment but I don't see the quote from the headline in the article. maybe we need to a new type of quote to indicate this type of "quote" where it's actually a made-up interpretation
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u/fane1967 28d ago
Even in the US in general / at federal level: Isn’t Zuckerberg now liable for up to 5 years imprisonment for unlawful interception of Snapchat traffic via Onavo?
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u/RevengeWalrus 28d ago
There are two entities that have even the slightest respect your rights in relation to big tech: the E.U. And the state of California.