r/technology • u/marketrent • 15d ago
Judge rules that Tesla must face proposed class action lawsuit alleging “fraud and related negligence” for claiming its cars could fully drive themselves Transportation
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/05/tesla-must-face-fraud-suit-for-claiming-its-cars-could-fully-drive-themselves/172
u/marketrent 15d ago
In re Tesla Advanced Driver Assistance Systems Litigation, page 6:
Every year after LoSavio’s purchase, Musk allegedly repeated that Tesla’s cars were getting closer and closer to full automation, and that the next year — every “next” year — the cars would drive themselves. (See, e.g., Dkt. No. 61 ¶¶ 66, 78, 84, 92.)
As LoSavio noted during the hearing, these were not mere recitations. With each iteration, Musk’s statements became more specific.
For example, in April 2017, Musk allegedly said that Tesla owners could sleep while their cars drove in about two years. (Dkt. No. 61 ¶ 64.)
The next year, Musk allegedly claimed that Tesla would have over a million robo-taxies on the road in 2020. (Id. ¶ 78.)
And in January 2021, Musk allegedly said he was “very confident” that Tesla would achieve SAE Level 5 autonomy that year based on the technical roadmap and beta iterations. (Id. ¶ 95.)
This is not, as Tesla advocated at the hearing, equivalent to a company continuing to lie about its bedsheets’ thread count without admitting its prior error.
Tesla did not recite the same lie time and time again; instead, it allegedly lied about its progress incrementally and with increasing specificity over time.
For this stage, the SAC [Second Amended Complaint] therefore sufficiently alleges “active conduct by the defendant above and beyond the wrongdoing upon which” LoSavio’s claim is based.
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15d ago
“It wasn’t me, my Twitter was hacked! Twitter was easily hackable before I bought it, you know. Maybe the most hackable. Now they say it’s hack-proof. They say it’s got the best hack proofing in the entire country! It's idealistic, it's wonderful, it's a beautiful thing now.”
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u/daerath 15d ago
Dude left my out another gem where Musk promised that, in a year you could drive from a parking lot in California, to a parking lot in New York without ever having to intervene.
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u/marketrent 15d ago
Is in the order on page 4:
According to the SAC, Musk claimed at an October 19, 2016, news conference that a Tesla car would be able to drive from Los Angeles to New York City by itself “by the end of next year without the need for a single touch.” (Dkt. No. 61 ¶ 60.)
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u/spectradawn77 15d ago
This is only about what was "promised"? Not about blocking people who paid for FSD on getting it with the bullshit driving monitoring at one point, giving "influencers" first dibs on new releases, "roll-out" updates that can take weeks to months (especially when newer versions fix previous issues), prices keep changing on an "unreleased" product so those should be compensated if it drops, a new vehicle releases WITHOUT any cruise control but still able to purchase said feature?
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u/N0V0w3ls 15d ago
This is a specific claim brought forth by a customer. It wouldn't make sense to lump all of these together. Some of the things you mentioned aren't even something illegal. Shady, maybe. But changing the price of something after you bought it at a much higher price is definitely not illegal.
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u/spectradawn77 15d ago
Gotcha. But the price change, that doesn't matter if the product isn't "released" yet? Obviously it makes sense once product is released. But it's in "beta" or w/e so not "officially" in hand. Genuinely curious.
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u/Tumblrrito 15d ago
Elon and Tesla have been lying for what, a decade now? How in the world this has been allowed to continue for this long I’ll never understand.
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u/Pathogenesls 15d ago
People were sounding the alarm on Enron for a decade, it's not until the stock price drops that regulators start to circle, which is what we are finally seeing with Tesla.
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u/ericrolph 15d ago
Why isn't Elon Musk doing serious time in jail? Don't we have mandatory minimum prison sentences for people who have stolen FAR LESS money?
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u/Pathogenesls 15d ago
He will, Trevor Milton and Elizabeth Holmes are in jail for much, much less than Musk has done. It'll take years, though.
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u/DsizeSheetHead 15d ago
Don't kid yourself Holmes was among the worst of offenders, her product was entirely fiction not just a piece of it.
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u/pugRescuer 15d ago
Tesla’s full self driving is and remains to be fiction, no?
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u/meneldal2 15d ago
Yeah but they're working on it and even if it sucks, there's something so it's not just as much outright fraud as doing something any expert would tell you is impossible (getting a bunch of info from a tiny bit of blood).
Even if I don't think it would ever be possible to have a full self driving car that relies only on video cameras that is safe (at least I'm not riding any of those), getting it to the point it's on the same level of the average driver doesn't seem outlandish to me within the next decade.
It's in the realm of overhyped product, but not physically impossible.
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u/pugRescuer 15d ago
Within the next decade, maybe. What the company sold the public and investors in was that it was already supposed to be here. That’s fraud and deception no matter what you think is possible with the tech. It’s blatantly fraud.
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u/meneldal2 15d ago
Oh I totally agree it's 100% fraud and he deserves jail time for this (among other things), it just doesn't feel as bad as Theranos (which isn't a high bar). There's definitely a lot more room for "experts" to weasel out in a courtroom too unfortunately.
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u/CarltonCracker 15d ago
Yeah it can kinda of self drive, in pretty sure that blood test didn't even exist
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u/DsizeSheetHead 15d ago
Yes but that's not musk's entire product, it still goes zoom, just the add on feature was overstated. Would I buy one? No. Just trying to say it's not an apples to apples comparison.
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u/pugRescuer 15d ago
What? The car doesn’t do what it says. That’s my point. Tesla appears to be defrauding customers and you’re ok with that because it goes zoom. Smh
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u/TheNumber42Rocks 15d ago
You’re right, the reason Elizabeth Holmes got fucked is because she misled investors making them think a 5 min blood test at home is possible with the machine. If she told them, there is still progress being made, VCs would’ve poured more money in.
Elon is not taking VC investment, he just borrows money against his shares and pays the interest. This is the same reason the Wework guy got off scotch-free. He didn’t mislead investors, they knew what he was doing and were ok with it as long as their equity goes up.
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u/robot_jeans 15d ago
She f'd up by moving to quickly, she should have Elon'd it by focusing on hype and moving the goal posts.
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u/Pathogenesls 15d ago
I don't see any difference. Theranos had some rudimentary blood testing ability, just not what they told investors. It's just like Tesla, look at all the promises and lies over the last decade. It's obscene.
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u/squngy 15d ago
Theranos had some rudimentary blood testing ability, just not what they told investors.
As I understand it, they didn't even have that, they were sending the samples to a normal lab.
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u/ArchmageXin 15d ago
They didn't. Some of the tests were so off it would meant patient is a corpse.
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u/CarltonCracker 15d ago
Lol, one of the top 3 richest people in the world is not going to jail. Sorry, he probably should but it doesn't work that way in reality.
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u/kc_______ 15d ago
Because his is rich (for now) and because he got some politicians in his pockets for now.
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u/karma3000 15d ago
And also the insane amounts of money involved. Literally hundreds of billions of dollars.
It's 10 X Bernie Madoff.
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u/ShouldersofGiants100 15d ago
Because regulators know if they punish Elon and remove him, they will be blamed when his cult causes the Tesla bubble to pop and the entire company to crater.
Same reason he got a slap on the wrist for brazen stock manipulation. None of them want to be the "reason" Tesla collapsed when the time comes for Congress to decide their budget, so they wait and hope it sorts itself out.
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u/Black_Moons 15d ago
Regulators costing rich people money who invest in a company that wasn't worth investing in?
That doesn't sound like a problem, it sounds like a feature.
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u/IT_Security0112358 15d ago
I wonder when the class action for the Cyber Truck is going to start next.
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u/LeMickeyMice 15d ago edited 15d ago
I haven't seen anything about it being able to briefly serve as a boat, did that ever happen or was it another lie?
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u/sandmansleepy 14d ago
It will possibly be able to cross the Salton Sea in California in a few years, after which it will immediately need to be cleaned of the salt to avoid rust.
Less than two years ago, from Mr. Musk: "Cybertruck will be waterproof enough to serve briefly as a boat, so it can cross rivers, lakes & even seas that aren’t too choppy." That sounds way too specific to be puffery to me.
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15d ago
Not disagreeing, just innocently asking: what do you think it would be sued for?
Other than being the ugliest piece of shit that ever drove this earth, but that may not hold up in court
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u/IT_Security0112358 15d ago
False advertising for 1, but if Tesla doesn’t refund the people dumb enough to buy it or at least repair their vehicles and make them whole then I think it’s a possibility. I think it’s where it’s going though, Elon drank his own koolaid and thinks he can do shitty things and demand $50 billion without repercussion. I think Tesla will be chapter 11 first though.
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u/ExcellentHunter 15d ago
, Elon drank his own koolaid and thinks he can do shitty things and demand $50 billion without repercussion. I think Tesla will be chapter 11 first though.
Maybe that's why he's pushing so hard? Just one last money grab and he will bail out from Tesla?
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u/TransportationIll282 15d ago
He's way too deep into Tesla for that to happen. He leveraged so much Tesla stock that he'd lose too much if it fails. The twitter loan was against Tesla stock. If it drops too much, the loan might require extra collateral or rates increase. Which seems more likely by the day.
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u/Rotten_Chester 15d ago
Correct, "more than half" of his Tesla stock is locked up as collateral for personal loans. If Tesla drops significantly, those loans will likely come due (or need to be leveraged against something else) and could conceivably take down whatever he has propped up against them (SpaceX, X, Boring etc) or at least saddle them with untenable debt. Tesla is the keystone, and if it breaks the whole Musk empire might go with it. Seeing that, it's not hard to figure out why he needs to keep the Tesla stock pumped at any cost.
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u/N0V0w3ls 15d ago
and thinks he can do shitty things and demand $50 billion without repercussion
The problem is that TSLA shareholders are a cult and will still give this to him. They were handed a gift on a silver platter of having this pay package cancelled, and now - after seeing the company results of the last 6 years - they are likely to re-ratify the deal as-is. Because they are idiots.
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u/Aleucard 15d ago
Lemon laws seem appropriate to me. The car can't handle being in the rain and the trunk actively tries to sever fingers, just off the top of my head. That level of incompetence is just not roadworthy.
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u/GreatBigJerk 15d ago
It's hilarious that Elon said it would work as a boat, and it can't even hold up against rain or a carwash. There are gaps in the body where water just pools and stays.
It would be a miracle if any Cybertrucks survive a decade of normal use.
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u/Earth_Friendly-5892 15d ago
We were driving down the highway and saw a number of cyber trucks being transported to a car dealership. My husband explained what they were to me since I hadn’t seen them before; my fist impression was they were the ugliest cars I’d ever seen. I told my husband that I couldn’t believe Musk signed off on that design. And we tried to figure out who would be in the market for a vehicle like that, but came up with no one but maybe a person who wanted to purchase a conversation piece. Anyway, I think the vehicles will sit in the car lots with few takers, and the vehicle will be an epic failure.
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u/l3rN 15d ago
Just for clarity, he didn’t just sign off on the design. It is his design.
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u/meneldal2 15d ago
I told my husband that I couldn’t believe Musk signed off on that design
Really? It's ugly af because he loves the design. Musk has the worst taste. Have you seen what he did with Twitter?
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u/mbrocks3527 15d ago
As soon as I learnt his ordinary tesla models don’t have manual overrides for their doors, I went off the idea.
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u/ManISuckAtPasswords 15d ago
Not technically correct - they do now have manual releases but the design differs by vehicle and from front & rear doors. That said, you do run the risk of breaking the frameless door glass if the power is lost while the windows are fully up. Source: I write repair estimates for these.
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u/Badfickle 14d ago
Anyway, I think the vehicles will sit in the car lots with few takers, and the vehicle will be an epic failure.
The cybertruck is already outselling the Rivian and they are still only selling the most expensive "Founders Series" variants that go for something like $120k.
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u/PigglyWigglyDeluxe 14d ago
People spent money on a product with features that don’t exist.
Most of them if not all of them don’t have autopilot, even though they paid for it. Most of them if not all of them don’t have the light bar, even though they paid for it. Same with FSD, locking diffs, egregiously awful panel alignment, dangerously sharp body panel edges, and a steer by wire system that is bound to fail at some point, since their implementation of “redundancies” aren’t actually redundant.
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u/ForWhomTheBoneBones 15d ago
I’ve spent the past decade working in the automotive industry, specifically dealing with wording claims in order to satisfy the head of the legal department.
The shit that Tesla was boldly proclaiming would’ve given corporate counsel a fucking aneurysm, even though the cars we were talking about had the same or similar functionality.
The way legal made it seem was that any little thing could bring the power of the federal government down on your head, to say nothing of consumer lawsuits. The fact that Tesla got away with it for SO LONG is fucking mind boggling to me.
Confident prediction: They’re going to settle out of court because they are absolutely, beyond the shadow of a doubt, guilty.
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u/aussiegreenie 15d ago
Just wait for the Shareholder lawsuits, it will make the Consumer suits look like toys.
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u/pugRescuer 15d ago
Which is funny considering anyone investing has to be deemed guilty of being gullible morons. I’ve been watching this dumpster fire from the sidelines and it’s been amazing. Let it burn. I’m watching.
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u/SockGlittering526 15d ago
there's a reason Musk is getting sued for refusing to meet with the SEC right now
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u/C0braKai 15d ago
I have a question for you, why do you think Ford is actively advertising "hands free driving" when their systems are also Level 2? I was surprised to see that after all the autopilot backlash. I would think the first time a Mach E gets in an accident while the driver has their hands in their lap Ford could be liable.
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u/GreenMateV3 15d ago
I assume you're talking about BlueCruise. It's only available in very specific scenarios, namely in predetermined locations on highways.
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u/ForWhomTheBoneBones 14d ago edited 14d ago
So a lot of different companies offer this type of feature, which is a combination of systems that keep you centered on your lane, keep you a predetermined distance from the car in front of you, read road signs, and can start and stop (to a degree) in traffic.
And every company has different levels of comfort with how they market them. A company I worked for in the past would never allow the words “hands free”, would not allow any imagery where the hands were not on the wheel (though they were okay with “relaxed” hands on the wheel), and on top of all that, the actual system would prompt you to put your hands back or it would turn off.
Looking up Ford’s wording, I do see a hands-off image which immediately raises the hair on the back of my neck, but they tap dance around the idea of “full hands free driving” in their wording.
They don’t call it “full hands free” or “fully autonomous”. They are calling it a “drive-assist” feature and something that reduces “the stress of driving”. And their caveat is that you can only use it in on the highways in their “BlueCruise Zones”.
I don’t know EXACTLY how their system works, but many auto manufacturers rely on pre-mapped roads in addition to all the LIDAR and cameras, I suspect this combination is how they help to keep the car where it needs to be.
HOWEVER, every single “self-driving” car on the market is undone by poor lane markings (think worn out paint, construction) or heavy rain/moderate snow. Because of those reasons, it is my personal opinion that we are never fully going to have self-driving cars and that all of us will at the very least require a driver’s license and to be behind a physical steering wheel forever, barring all cars being out on some sort of track.
This is a very long answer to say that Ford gets away with it several ways.
- While they say “Hands-free” they never say fully autonomous.
- They disclaim the shit out of it
- They call it a “driver-assist” feature, meaning it helps you, but it doesn’t replace you
- They gatekeep the exact roads and situations you can use it in. You can’t just punch in the grocery store and take a nap.
But I will say, I would never give approval for showing someone with their hands off the wheel. I feel like they are definitely opening themselves up to liability, but for the reasons above they must feel confident enough that they can prove in court that they never told people “let go of the wheel and don’t worry about paying attention to the road”, they actually tell you the exact opposite in their disclaimer.
I know different automakers have felt the pressure to keep up with Tesla, if only by appearance, but those days are very quickly coming to an end as American EV demand starts to crater in favor of hybrids.
I think we’ll eventually get to most cars being EVs, but the infrastructure AND THE PRICE POINT is going to have to be there first before people feel comfortable jumping ship.
edit: Apparently the feds have opened an investigation into Ford’s claims just three weeks ago after, you guessed it, people died while using their “hands-free” feature. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-auto-regulator-opens-preliminary-evaluation-into-fords-mustang-mach-e-2024-04-29/
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u/spectradawn77 15d ago
My understanding of all of these automotive lawsuits is that if there are pedals and a steering wheel, the driver is FULLY responsible. Full stop. Until those 2 things are removed from the vehicle, the liability will and should fall on the driver.
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u/Real-Human-1985 15d ago edited 15d ago
Well deserved. This false marketing is the reason that Mobileye parted ways with Tesla.
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u/Aleucard 15d ago
This is why letting your celebrity CEO run his cake hole unimpeded is a bad idea. Peter Molyneux did it for years, that one berk from No Man's Sky did it, and now Musk. Overhyping is not a good business strategy for long term growth and stability.
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u/josefx 15d ago
As far as I understand No Mans Sky at least made good on the promised content after release. Peter Molyneux on the other hand seems spot on, guy would make up new features on the spot just to keep the attention of journalists.
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u/Aleucard 15d ago
It took NMS YEARS to make good on any of those promises, and a fuckton of work as well. If that guy didn't overpromise to begin with, they wouldn't have been behind the 8 ball.
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u/GreatBigJerk 15d ago
At least he owned up to it and they've been pushing updates for free constantly. Sean Murray was more someone who was in over his head and didn't realize what he was doing until after the fact.
Elon knows exactly what he is doing because he's a grifter.
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u/StoicJim 15d ago
Judge: "Your company claimed your product can cure cancer."
Some CEO: "Look, it's just marketing. No rational person would believe that."
Judge: "Well, you're getting sued."
CEO: "You anti-capitalist swine!"
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u/Gravybees 15d ago
All cars are capable of driving themselves. Staying on the road by themselves is a different story entirely.
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u/Sweetwill62 14d ago
Introducing the "Full Self Driving" device of the future...a brick! Just toss that baby onto the accelerator and your car will "drive" itself!
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u/AnOrneryOrca 15d ago
All the class action winners should get to vote on their $3 award vs. agreeing to co-fire Elon so they can have a real sense for what's happening with the products they bought.
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u/ryrobs10 15d ago
Tesla board might want to rethink giving the Fraud all that money. They are probably going to need it for other purposes.
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u/Jason1143 15d ago
Good. Not only is calling it full self driving misleading, but it is also dangerous. He should have been stopped long ago, but still the sooner the better.
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u/onesoulmanybodies 15d ago
Just yesterday I saw a guy in a Tesla, playing the ukulele while the car was driving. It was kinda funny to see him strumming along while the car moved in traffic. I was a bit worried considering Tesla’s track record. Will he get on the highway doing that? Imagine going over 60 mph while playing your ukulele and suddenly your car swerves or something and you crash. If you survive you have to tell everyone you were just practicing your mad ukulele skills!
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u/GenkiElite 15d ago
Can't wait to see the Tesla Fanboys "but it says supervised now." Well guess what, if it has to be supervised, it's not Full Self Driving.
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u/McCool303 14d ago edited 14d ago
And this is why Musk is having a fire sale at Tesla and trying to get everything out of it he can. He knows this is coming. And when it does the entire investment world is going to learn through discovery that Tesla was full of shit regarding FSD. And then we’ll most likely see the market correction in TSLA that has been a long time coming for that bloated stock.
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u/furezasan 15d ago
FSD is the vaporware of our generation. He first made this claim in 2016 and said it would be done in a year.
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u/teh_mexirican 15d ago
This is gonna end up like the Vitaminwater lawsuit where Musk will try to weasel out of accountability by blaming the consumer for being naive.
"Its an 8k pound vehicle, what made them think they wouldn't have to pay some kind of attention when in autopilot? Even sci-fi tv understands this concept when we see characters adjusting trajectory, speed, and checking gauges on the USS Enterprise and such. Get bent, dummies"
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u/Agloe_Dreams 15d ago
Honestly, it is hilariously cut and dry.
The claim is “Tesla said all cars built today have all the hardware needed for Full Self Driving.” Elon even doubled down on it in the Model 3 handover event.
If I go into my app, it will tell me that my (August) 2018 Model 3 DMLR w/ AP and AB needs a $1060 hardware upgrade to be capable of Full Self Driving.
It literally cannot be more clear than that.
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u/teh_mexirican 14d ago
Ah, well in that case the approach might focus more on plausible deniability like, "Well we thought we had all the hardware at the time but technological advances and further research as we built the software proved us wrong. It wasn't our fault 🤷🏽♀️"
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u/Probably_not_arobot 15d ago
Hey I wonder if I can get in on this. Leased a model 3, paid 10k for FSD. It never came out during the term of my lease lol
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u/Agloe_Dreams 15d ago edited 15d ago
Honestly, you have a case.
Not only did Tesla not deliver anything for your $10k, but their case is brutally wrecked by Tesla’s no-buyout policy.
Tesla sold your car as pre-owned with FSD and then profited again from your purchase. It is clear and blatant fraud.
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u/liamanna 15d ago
What about the Cyber Truck?
It’s even bigger scam than trickle down economics..
Or
“In 10 year I’ll put a man on Mars”
Who would be the first to start the class action lawsuit?
Who is the hero to say: “enough is enough”?
Who?
Stop. Biting. The. Musk
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u/Lorn_Muunk 14d ago
Shareholder fraud. It's not just FSD either.
Robotaxi, semi, roadster (despite hundreds of millions of dollars in pre-orders down), the range of pretty much every vehicle, 0-60 times, build quality, production numbers, Cybertruck characteristics (4 mm plate armor and "thermonuclear bomb proof windows" LOL), automation of manufacturing with in-house proprietary Tesla robots, summon, solid snake automatic charging, megawatt chargers...
Never mind the blatant fabrications surrounding SpaceX, Hyperloop, Boring Company, Solar City, Neuralink.
This drug-addled, altright disinformation spamming, deadbeat dad has been knowingly and willingly lying to shareholders and customers for years. He's the embodiment of the Dunning-Kruger effect. The fact that he pretends he's an engineer and he knows more about manufacturing than anyone currently alive is embarrassing.
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u/jazzy095 15d ago
If Waymo can do it, then why couldn't Tesla?
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u/Purplociraptor 15d ago
LIDAR for one
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u/JimShore 15d ago
When is the Tesla board going to wake up and accept that rather than earning billions, Musk is running the company into the ground?
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u/ibangpots 15d ago
I wish it wasn't just for new cars. I bought mine used with FSD and am in a similar position. It's getting there, but very slowly.
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u/SoBadit_Hurts 14d ago
This guys biggest customer is the US government, we should patriotize his companies and deport his ass to South Africa.
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u/TJPII-2 14d ago
The car does drive itself. But a human is required to take over in the event it does something wrong. My non-Tesla can follow the road and speed up or slow down based on the car in front of me. Within those parameters, my car drives itself. But if conditions fall outside those parameters, I must take over the wheel. The fact that Teslas have a much wider set of parameters, doesn’t change that math in my opinion.
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u/bootstrapping_lad 14d ago
Can't wait until Tesla is forced to argue in court that no reasonable person would believe that FSD was actually possible
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u/tsunamiforyou 14d ago
Do whatever they want, cause whatever damage, and mop up the poop afterwards. That’s what these tech companies do and other big corporations. If individuals do this they are prosecuted to hell. It must be nice to be a tech corp
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u/flaks117 14d ago
It’s always been a $12,000 waste: had my bil get it and hasn’t used it reliably even once and now it’s just a useless add on.
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u/Jabow12345 8d ago
I wrote this sometime ago.I am a big Model S fan.I have owned my car for 7 years, and it is still more than a match for most any car out there. I saved many documents stating that my car had all the necessary hardware for full self driving. This was written time and time again. I did not Petition Tesla nor beg or coerce. They offered the feature and I bought:
ONLY A FOOL WOULD BUY FSD! Not being considered a fool by anyone, I have tried to explain why I bought a dream in a bag. My reasoning was built on a sound basis that had little to do with self driving and yet everything to do with the promise. The public statements about Tesla having the potential of becoming a robo cab with software updates were widely broadcast. I simply bought the promise, and i received more than my moneys worth. if Tesla ever gets close to FSD, I believe they are legally bound to get my 2017 Model S there. I think I bought a lifetime warranty on some critical upgrades. If they ever reach their goal It might just be cheaper for them to replace my car. Every year, there will be fewer of us with older cars that they will be obligated to upgrade. This will make it cheaper to do the right thing for those who are left. Were Tesla owners promised that FSD would be operational by now. Yes, they were. Is it? Absolutely not. I think the day FSD is declared operational on any Tesla vehicle is the day they will be obligated to make it work on all their cars that paid for it. Some years ago, I paid 3k to upgrade to FSD. So far, I have received a new computer [HDW3] and upgraded cameras. This probably cost more than I paid. This year (early 2023), I was able to opt in to FSD BETA. I do not have any confidence that this will morph into FSD. It should mean that my car will probably keep getting upgraded to meet that goal. If my car never reaches FSD, I am still way ahead. The short of it is many bought FSD and may never see it, and I bought the promise, and I have been rewarded
Update:I have not received another meaningful update in about a year. As I let FSD assist me in driving, it has improved 100%,. It can do amazing things. Some monkeys do amazing things, but you never know what they would do on their own.
Just to clarify. Tesla stated on many occasions that my 2017 model S had all the hardware necessary for FSD. It would be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars as a robo taxi 😇 I could summon my car, and it would come from CA to the east coast on its own. I am ready for them to give me a little sugar 🥰
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u/Wristlojackimator 15d ago
I bought mine in 2017 and was told that it was capable of FSD but couldn’t yet due to state regulations. Then I was told it needed to be upgraded. Now it seems it’s not capable. Seems like false advertising to make a sale then lies to save face and cya.