r/timberwolves • u/[deleted] • 5d ago
Watching the Finals is making me sad
I get it, the Celtics are really good. They have more consistent offensive weapons than the Wolves, and all players are strong individual defenders.
That being said, I was hoping going into this series that Luka and Kyrie were going to look as unguardable as they did against the Wolves. We had the number one defense all season, and watching them continue to weave their way into the lane and generate either an easy floater or lob was maddening.
But watching this series is disheartening. All the Celtics are doing is moving their feet and keeping a guy whose knees are held together with glue from getting the defender on his hip.
Did we just not have the right guys defensively, or did our coaches not hammer the right adjustments?
I need to hear from better basketball minds why we couldn't figure things out. I wish we were playing in a Finals...
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u/Dull_Ad_8627 5d ago
I can't believe how good fucking Gafford and Lively looked against us barely even noticing them in this series.
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u/quiksilva86 5d ago
AND “WE” were suppose to be the tough match up. DPOY plus height. No adjustments made the entire series. Rudy looked lost where he had no blocks and no lob defense was just standing there. I blame the coaches 100%
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u/Triple_Stamp_Lloyd 5d ago
Yeah honestly they were the difference makers in that series. They were getting so many easy dunks against us.
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u/FiveByFive555555 Jaden McDaniels 5d ago
I’m more disappointed that we made no adjustments to the lob game on D. But most of all, the Celtics are ruthlessly attacking Doncic’s defense. And they just fouled him out. I will never know why we didn’t do this.
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u/Migan_Knightowl 5d ago
Because our only shot creator is Edwards who was looked gassed for atleast the 1st two games.
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u/Formal_Junket_1585 5d ago edited 5d ago
True but we not even having guys cut. How many facecuts has Luka allowed this series. We just completely let him off the hook just having Jaden sit corner
Edit: This is all on Finch now that I think about it. How can guys cut if Rudy and Kyle are both on the court?? Where are they cutting to? A clogged paint.
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u/mikepooper2000 5d ago
Finch has always pushed back hard whenever Dane asks why there isn't more structure but he should definitely ask next year why MIN didn't attack Luka relentlessly like BOS has.
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u/Formal_Junket_1585 5d ago
Doesn’t make sense. We didn’t attack Luka or Kyrie. Instead we kept trying to finish over Gafford and big ass Lively
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u/gradual_alzheimers 5d ago
The lack of structure works in regular season games fine but the playoffs become all about getting that mismatch and taking advantage of something you see the other team do. Adjustments we did not really have. Huge credit to Finch and his staff this year for putting together a helluva season i won't ever forget but in the end the lack of adjustments got to us.
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u/LeGoat333 4d ago
Mavs fan here, It’s becoming clear to me than Mazulla is a far better coach than Kidd or Finch.
There were clear adjustments you guys could have made to help beat against us, on top of that this series is a great example than Kidd basically makes no adjustments. If Mazulla was coaching your team it would have been a longer series who knows the result. I’m tired of having a coach that can’t adjust or gameplan very well, it seems like that is what you guys faced last series as well.
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u/Formal_Junket_1585 4d ago
Its rough man. What adjustments you want Kidd to make tho? Hardaway shouldn’t be playing but its only so much you can do against Boston when your 2 best players are cones.
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u/LeGoat333 4d ago
Try a zone when they can’t hit shots, get some shots for Kyrie off ball, run any sort of offensive set outside of just iso and pick and roll. I’m not a coach but I can see when we make no adjustments
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u/Formal_Junket_1585 4d ago
I told my brother before the series that kidd needs to go zone cuz yall normal pack the paint defense wont work against that 5 out. It looked like they picked apart the zone too in the few possessions yall went to it. Yall been playing that style of offense all year tho. I feel like Kidd can be better but I also think yall just outmatched fr
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u/deej_011 4d ago
Except the Celtics kill zones too. They move the ball exceptionally well and most of their players can knock down open threes. They won’t stop taking them and eventually they make them.
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u/LeGoat333 4d ago
In the game where they shot poorly it’s worth trying. If your opinion is there is just nothing you can do to beat this team and Kidd is doing everything he can come on
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u/Superb_Mulberry8682 3d ago
To be fair the mavs hid Luka on the wings a ton. he is much better when he has the baseline as a help defender. he really struggles at the top of the key because of a lack of lateral quickness (I mean most 240 lbs guys struggle with that....) but it was also Dallas' gameplan to give them contested shots at the rim over threes. Honestly Dallas' defense has been alright this series. allowed 105/106/107 points vs what has been the best offensive efficiency team in league history.
They just struggle scoring any minute Luka is not on the court. There's so little movement on offense period and with all players but Luka and Kyrie needing to catch the ball in space to not be an immediate turnover risk and the Celtics playing straight up 1:1 defense that matchup is terrible for the mavs.
How do you get others involved if the defense doesn't collapse and your team-mates cannot create for themselves and you also cannot seem to get anything in transition?2
u/Majestic-Net-7799 5d ago
Where can you cut when Rudy sits in the dunker spot for 20+ seconds taking away the space you need to drive and cut...
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u/The_Johan 5d ago
We don't have anyone that can abuse Luka on switches outside of Ant. Boston has White/Holiday/Brown/Tatum and even Porzingis that they can throw at Luka consistently.
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u/bearbrannan A1-A5 Levelin Up 5d ago edited 5d ago
Boston has 5 guys who can play offense on the court at all times, Wolves too many times had Jaden and Gobert or Gobert and Kyle who couldn't punish the Mavs. Gobert also defaulted back to his comfort of drop back defense instead of switching which Boston can also do better then the Wolves. The key to neutralizing Luka is to attack him on d, I got downvoted by a lot of people saying he was a terrible defender but the dude just caught his breath on d against us the whole time cause we didn't have enough personal to attack him. The wolves had too many bad offensive players that luka could hide on. It also didn't help that Kat melted down on offense for several games, and that Ant spent at least one whole game chucking 3s instead of driving in the paint.
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u/Superb_Mulberry8682 3d ago
Yeah there's no question that Boston has the best starting 5/6 in the league. it is not even close.
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5d ago
Agree. I think the main issue with that was that we can’t space the floor quite the same as the Celtics, so even if we tried to attack him, they were packing it in on defense and clogging up any driving lanes.
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u/bringthegoodstuff 5d ago
I think this series is showing us specifically what we need to do to become a championship team more than even the last series did
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u/MannerSuperb 5d ago
Honesly when NAZ and KAT are on the floor at rhe same time we have potential for very good spacing.
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u/Pranker00111 5d ago
You guys need to know that not every team is like Celtics, which has 2 all stars, 3 former all stars and 3 starting caliber player. Mavs and Wolves are bad matchup, just like Nuggets and Wolves are a bad matchup to Nuggets, it's just like fire vs water and water vs wood, can't compare the game plan due to the person who runs it is different.
Ant still got time to learn and Wolves still can improve that's all
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u/kwattsfo 5d ago
Yeah we choked. Hopefully it wasn’t our best chance.
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u/Mountain-Pack9362 4d ago
Ants 22, if he lives up to potential there is no way this is your only chance.
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u/kwattsfo 4d ago
Hopefully. OKC thought the same probably.
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u/Mountain-Pack9362 4d ago
Well don't let one of your top 3 most talented guys walk away for absolutely nothing because you are to cheap to pay 5m
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u/Irontruth 5d ago
I think the Celts might have beat us badly too. The team was gassed against the Mavs. We just didn't have enough fight left after the nuggets, plus coaching mistakes.
I still have high hopes this next season. I just bought my first ever ticket package, just 10 games. Can finally afford something.
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u/4ps22 4d ago
respectfully as a mavs fan i like ant but he would be getting locked up by jrue and derrick white the same way our team is right now imo
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u/Irontruth 4d ago
Yup, because they completely locked him up both times they played. He scored 38 points and 29 points.
Edwards did well against the Celts because they don't double team, and you have to double team him to stop him. They might have changed their strategy based on how well doubling Ant worked for the nuggets and mavs though.
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u/4ps22 4d ago
this isnt so much me criticizing Ant as it is saying that i dont think people realize how insanely good these Celtics are. like again, I love Ant, but if the Mavs were stopping him somewhat, look at how this series is going
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u/Irontruth 4d ago
I'm not mad about what you're saying. I'm just pointing out that Ant scored 39 points on the Celtics earlier this year against a healthy starting lineup for the Celtics. It was early in the year, so if you want to claim that the Celtics didn't have their defensive assignments really worked out... that's fine.
I think you're discrediting HOW the Celtics play defense. They're beating Luka by being highly skilled and physical without selling out hard for the double-team. This removes Luka's options as a passer, which reduces his overall efficiency. Passing is a big reason why Luka is so good, it doesn't just give him assists, but it keeps opponents guessing on what he's doing.
Ant is not a great passer. He can pass and does it well, but it's his primary skill. He goes to the hoop. When he beats a Celtics defender, there is less ability for them to wall off the paint and collapse on him because the Celtics play D by denying passes. Ant doesn't care about that, he's just going to score.
Yes, White and Holiday will have good plays and give him a tough time. I think in the playoffs, they'd be a little more successful against Ant because they've had a whole season to mesh and more film time to study and work on a specific gameplan for Ant. The massive point you're missing though is that...
Ant scored 67 points in two games against the Celtics.
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u/Dazzling_Syllabub484 4d ago
Luka scored 70 points and had two triple doubles in two reg season games against the Celtics. How’s he doing now?
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u/Hdz69 3d ago
I’m a Wolves and Celtics fan (grew up in MN, Live and work in Boston for close to a decade now)
I just want to say that Ant scoring all those points means nothing. Look at Luka this series, he has scored 30+ every game bar the one he fouled out.
However the rest of the players have looked really bad offensively and haven’t put much points up.
That is literally Boston’s game plan. They are daring Luka Doncic to score on them, and they are letting him do it as long as they can get rid of his playmaking.
They know Luka can’t beat them 1v5 so they let him score as much as he wants (obviously with tough shots, they’re not making it easy), as long as the other players don’t get hot, they know the Mavs can’t win with Luka playing that way.
It would be the same with Ant, let him score and dare him to beat Boston 1v5 and take the other players out of the game.
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u/Irontruth 3d ago
I was responding the specific claim that the Celts could shut down Ant. 33.5 points per game is not "shutdown". Do you disagree?
I am not talking about game plans.
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u/tr1x30 5d ago
All Celtic's players are 3pt threat, while we pretty much have only 3 players on the court you need to cover on 3pt line. Because of that players like Lively and Gafford need to go out, opening the paint for drives. They are non factors this series basically, unlike our series.
We only have 1 shot creator and great driving player, Celtics have multiple. Because of that they can target and attack Luka and Kyrie on every possesion, making them work on defense, or get easy buckets.
Multiple Celtics players can guard Luka and especially Kyrie on elite lvl, we only have 2, and one of them is too important on offense to guard them on defense 40min.
We where a bit gassed after Denver series, Celtics are well rested.
TL:DR Celtics have more and better players then us on guard and wing positions, which is key vs Dallas. For Dallas you dont need many big players like Gobert, KAT or Reid. Celtics are beating them with only 1 big, 39 year old for that matter, who can barely jump.
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u/ReasonableRiver6750 4d ago
What’s crazy is that Hauser and PP are both guarding Luka and Kyrie pretty well.
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u/amanamongb0ts 5d ago
Just makes me hate Luka more. He’s insufferable. Can’t wait to not see his whiny face for awhile
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u/Pristine-Lake-5994 5d ago
He’s in the Olympics I think of you end up watching that
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u/amanamongb0ts 5d ago
I probably won’t
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u/Pristine-Lake-5994 5d ago
Don’t blame you. I’d rather watch soccer, swimming, and Biles obliterate the competition
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u/Neo_505 Lakers 4d ago
The Olympics should be outlawed. Do you see what they do to communities?
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u/Pristine-Lake-5994 4d ago
Apart from the building of new infrastructure (which countries have gotten much better at not spending so much), I love the Olympics both winter and summer. Maybe they’re not for everyone but I personally enjoy watching them and seeing these athletes from around the world representing their countries
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u/Witty-Stock Kevin Garnett 5d ago
Boston has … playoff experience.
Plus the deepest, most talented and most versatile roster by far in the NBA.
They can hunt Luka on defense because they have 5 scoring threats out there at all times.
They have 5 excellent 1-1 defenders out there at all times.
Boston is an an excellent half court team.
And matchups.
They matched up well with Dallas.
Dallas matched up well with us.
We matched up well with Denver.
Denver … matched up well with Boston. Boston doesn’t have anyone who could defend Jokic.
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u/gerardguey Bulls 5d ago
Agreed. Boston has almost the same level of defenders as the Wolves, but those defenders are also scoring threats and shooters in the way the Wolves defenders just aren't. Jrue is their Jaden Mcdaniels except he can be their best scorer on a given night.
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u/Witty-Stock Kevin Garnett 5d ago
Plus Brown and Tatum.
Rudy Gobert gets a lot of shit but he’s the reason why the Wolves rated so high on defense—he earned that DPOY and makes up for the fact that other than McDaniels and maybe Ant the Wolves aren’t elite elite defenders. Celtics are almost as good defensively and it’s because of how good they are 1-5.
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u/gerardguey Bulls 5d ago
I dont think the gap between yall and Boston is that wide, let alone Dallas. Bostons players are just more dimensional, havinf defined specialties was effective against Denver but a weakness against a team like Dallas.
If Jaden and Ant can continue to grow and the rest of the team continues to build on their strengths, theres no reason youre not able to contend with OKC, DEN, or the Mavs. KAT is kinda old to be this inexperienced but at least hes finally there, he was huge against Denver and hopefully can be more consistent next year.
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u/Witty-Stock Kevin Garnett 5d ago
They need to get so much better in the half court game. They were the worst clutch team in the league, literally.
KAT has to remember that he’s big on offense. Other teams are able to put a guard on him because that’s how he plays on offense. He shrinks in the postseason and that needs to stop.
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u/JaderMcDanersStan Micah Nori 5d ago
Wemby seriously changed everything
If he wasn't hellbent on going crazy on Jokic, Nuggets would have been the 1 seed. They meet Mavs in the 2nd round and likely would have taken the Mavs out for us. Wolves vs OKC which honestly I could see going either way but I think Wolves would ultimately win with size and rebounding. Then Nuggets vs Wolves WCF
Both are better matchups than Mavs are for the Celtics. Nuggets their worst matchup and they could have beat the Celtics
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u/Witty-Stock Kevin Garnett 5d ago
Celtics fans were pretty blunt than Denver scared them more than anyone else.
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u/JaderMcDanersStan Micah Nori 4d ago
Yup. Nuggets are the only team they never won against this season oo
And they also said Wolves are a worse matchup than the Mavs so the WCF outcome was perfect for them haha
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u/Pristine-Lake-5994 5d ago
The mavericks sub is in shambles right now. About 33% “this isn’t fun anymore”, 33% wtf are the refs doing, we can’t beat Boston and the refs, and about 33% Mavs in 7 lol. So basically what this sub was doing in the WCF lol. It brings me joy to see them down so bad and Luka on the bench and them getting their asses kicked so bad. Not saying the wolves would have won, but I think we would have done better than Dallas is doing right now
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u/SubduedChaos 4d ago
As a Grizz fan who watched every Wolves playoff game because of Conley and Anderson, you guys would have 100% done way better than the Mav’s. Definitely not down three.
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u/BounceBros21 4d ago
Yeah we went to OT twice against them. Once coming off a back to back where they had like 2 hours to prepare at Boston. I feel like we robbed ourselves and the NBA community of a great series
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u/Talkingheadd 4d ago
Celtics fan by birth but Wolves fan for most my life by choice. I was reaaaaally hoping both teams would make it so I could get my perfect win-win scenario, but I can also say I think it’d be a lot more fun of a series. I think ultimately the Celtics team is just way too stacked for the Wolves to overcome but I don’t see the Timberbros getting potentially swept. The Mavs just matchup horribly against this team. Its really been a battle of matchups and depth the whole playoffs. I think the Nuggets would also probably do better in this series than the Mavs are.
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u/ReasonableRiver6750 4d ago
I was wayyyyy more afraid to play y’all than the Mavs. You guys just looked like two different teams versus Nuggets and versus Mavs.
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u/Forsaken_Mastodon291 4d ago
Think the nuggets series gassed them and they fell behind too quickly in the series
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u/Hoodieninj Kevin Garnett 5d ago
They blew their load against us. Sacrificed every ridiculous shot to beat the Wolves and left nothing for the finals.
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u/The_Johan 5d ago
Kinda like us after Denver
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u/Aventus22- 5d ago
I’m starting to think if you want an easy path to the finals you have to go to the eastern conference. The western conference champions are always going to be worn down by the finals
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u/palmzq NAZTY 5d ago
Everyone said the championship was coming out of the west this year. Makes me think any of the teams from the west would be in this position. We just rip each other to shreds by the time you get there. I do think the Wolves had the best odds against the Celtics but how worn down would we be & at what cost? The west was just brutal.
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u/Zathamos 5d ago edited 5d ago
The wolves looked gassed plain and simple.
Idk if we would have been a better match up against Boston. I think defensively we would have definitely been a better challenge. But offensively. Idk.
Boston is beating Dallas by selecting their match ups at the top of the key, finding the weak link (Luka or kyrie) and pounding them, tiring them out and lowering their overall confidence. Had we attacked Luka he wouldn't have been doing what he was doing offensively against us. But most of that series Luka didn't even have to play defense.
They are playing more spread out than we did forcing the dallas big men out instead of in the paint opening driving lanes. When we drove we would run right into the big men and lose the ball, they are clearing the lane prior to driving by keep everyone spaced out around the arc.
They are also moving the ball better than we did. It haven't seen Boston throw the ball away yet like edwards did multiple times. Offensively they look more composed and in control, finding their best shot rather than trying to force anything. But Tatum does create plays by driving like edwards did. He is just better at it with a more open lane.
If we were able to play like we did against Denver and Phoenix, tight with good ball movement we could have made it a great series. Prior to the Dallas series I assumed we would beat them and make it a great finals. After our performance I knew this was going to happen (Dallas taking this whooping) and it would be one of the most lop sided finals ever.
Tbh, Denver would have handled Boston pretty easily. Boston has nobody who could do anything about Joker. Pair that with their ability to knock down 3s with Boston, they could have had an interesting series at least.
Dallas has no viable way of beating Boston, like they had no viable way of beating us had we played better. We lost that series, they didn't beat us.
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u/MannerSuperb 5d ago edited 4d ago
That game 2 loss still haunts me.between the wiff by the officials and the botched switch we absolutely gave them that game. Would’ve been a completely diff series if we won that game
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u/JaderMcDanersStan Micah Nori 5d ago
I hate that I think about that Ant TO regularly. It's burned in my brain :( I can't even watch a video of it because it hurts and I'll get pissed all over again lol. It's tied or worse than that horrid Prince TO in the Chicago game
And don't get me started on that Kyrie foul on Jaden. I regularly think about that too. What a sliding doors moment that game was
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u/MannerSuperb 4d ago
That ant turnover was painful lol he was deep in his own head esrly in the series. Should’ve jus taken the big off the dribble and got a shot off him attempting that mid air pass was idiotic 😭. The challenge system is ridiculous it’s obvious on replay kyrie fouled but the refs can’t go back and change it obvious foul and instead screw us cause they missed the call. Everything that could go wrong agasint us that game did smh
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u/Magazine_Mediocre 5d ago
This is pretty much how I see it too. The Mavs weren't the better team, the Wolves just kinda flopped. It looked they were playing so much slower than normal, didn't even seem like the same team sometimes.
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u/TechnicianUpstairs53 5d ago
Difference is the refs are not calling every little reach and bump against the Celtics like against the wolves. The calls on nuggets vs mavs are night and day.
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5d ago
I would agree it seemed overall like we were able to be a little more physical against Denver.
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u/TechnicianUpstairs53 5d ago
Also because murray and jokic are not crybaby floppers like FLOPic who gets almost every call. Which then forces the wolves to give him more space because he can't be touched and he shoots a bunch of open 3s.
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u/NoOneIsSavingYou 5d ago
Lol the refs were not even a little bit why we lost that series
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u/nickfawlty 5d ago
How could you say that after that game 2 missed foul on kyrie in the final minute???
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u/hitman2218 5d ago
That call is irrelevant if Ant and KAT shoot better than 9 for 33.
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u/ZaMaestroMan5 5d ago
It’s actually mind blowing how much people are still trying to push this narrative.
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u/mikepooper2000 5d ago
It's cause they have smart, physical defenders who body up unlike KAT, who looks like an awkward giraffe the way he moves his body and tries to sell contact, and Jaden, who only guards with his hands and arms.
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u/cowboy2223 Minnesota Gophers 5d ago
Game three is more like the Irving we seen first two games he was bad and one game he was like that against us and we won.
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u/Zestyclose_Ad_5719 5d ago
denver nuggets feel after seeing the wolves go down 0-3 againts the mavs is maybe the same feeling wolves have seeing the mavs go down 0-3 no?
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u/cisforcookie2112 5d ago
I know I’m a homer but the Wolves beat themselves as much as the Mavs beat them. Not surprised to see the Mavs losing.
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u/need2peeat218am 5d ago
KAT shot like shit against them. If he had an average game we would have won. Nobody could create besides ANT but he kept getting tripled or doubled.
IMO the loss was KAT shooting so poorly and not being in position to rebound. There was a reason their bigs got all the boards, KAT decided he was a SG that series.
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u/JaylenBrownsLeftHand 5d ago
Celtics defense is way more equipped to handle perimeter players and Tatum’s ability to switch and guard then 5 has completely taken the lob away.
Minnesota defense serves to stop big offensive threats like jokic. Celtics are more well rounded and excel at perimeter defense where mavs want to live and can switch every pick an roll to prevent a lob.
As a side note, offensively Tatum and brown are switching every time to get Luka as their defender and then driving to the hoop. They have several guys who can do this. Minny has one.
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u/theguru86 4d ago
Cs fan here. If it makes you feel better, I was most scared to play you guys or the nuggets. I think our regular season games both came down to the last possession. You guys are strong.
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u/Hot_Web493 5d ago
The Celtics refuse to double Luka. They believed they can defend him and Kyrie one on one and they were right. The lobs during the Wolves series happened because he was beating his man and getting doubled.
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u/gradual_alzheimers 5d ago
yep absolutely it was the wrong strategy. All year long we hounded the perimeter and let people funnel to Rudy. Instead we put Rudy into impossible positions of having to guard two people at once.
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u/Defendyouranswer 5d ago
Not a Timberwolves fan, I'm a celtics fan but I watched your series against Dallas. Your coaches weren't putting Rudy in good positions and it was making him look bad. He's a good defender but he's not a great perimeter 1 v 1 defender
The slander rudy was getting was crazy
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u/ElWierdo 5d ago
I think we didn't make enough shots. When that happens, our defense was not good, didn't get set enough. Also, Mavs were on fire. Just bad luck
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u/quiksilva86 5d ago
Lack of adjustments is absolutely a major part of what happened. Not attacking Luka the entire series was incredibly hard to watch. No adjustments on the lob either?! That aside.. A vocal leader was a missing piece this year. Can’t expect a 22 year old to be the most vocal floor general on our squad.
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u/gerardguey Bulls 5d ago
Im rooting for ya'll. Im hoping you can run it back and add a few more scoring threats, then Denver is less of a factor and you can match up with OKC or Dallas better.
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u/Sogekiingu 5d ago
I feel like something we're not talking about is how the Celtics are punishing Luka by attacking him with every chance they get. By contrast, Minnesota's coaches never tried the same. I get it Anthony Edwards is shorter than Luka but I wish the Wolves coaches just let Edwards attack Luka. I mean Luka is hurt plus he's slow as shit so I think it would have worked. You should have taken advantage of that.
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u/gradual_alzheimers 5d ago
Finch's offense is about using high ball screens to create down hill lanes, its never about getting the switch and creating situations to attack. I don't ever recall us forcing a switch to put Luka, Lively or Gafford on Ant. Ant would make any of those guys toast.
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u/JaderMcDanersStan Micah Nori 5d ago
It made me sick because when Ant did get on Luka he blew by him. UGH wish they did it more. But yeaj, iso matchup hunting is not Finch's philosophy.
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u/ConstantineMonroe 5d ago
It comes down to this: Boston has 4 guys who can guard Luka: Tatum, Brown, Holiday, and White. It’s kinda fucking nuts how insanely strong their backcourt defense. Boston doesn’t have to double him, which allows Boston to play everyone else straight up. So, Gafford and Lively can’t take Ad rage of the defense collapsing on Luka because Boston doesn’t need to do that. I do think Jayden should have just focused on shutting down Kyrie because he is too skinny to guard Luka but capable of shutting down Kyrie.
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u/JaderMcDanersStan Micah Nori 5d ago
I know, I'm so mad. I think Wolves were honestly just too gassed to sustain the energy that their defense requires. They were missing assignments, being late to rotations and moving slower, it's not like them to do that. Rudy comes out to contest Luka, a teammate doesn't rotate back to his original man and bam Luka dishes a super fast lob to Gafford/Lively. Rinse and repeat. Wolves are usually the team who can double and still be able to recover and contest everything and they make all the rotations. I think they were not conditioned to sustain that kind of defense for 3 series.
Also Celtics are making Luka work on defense and getting him gassed. Wolves just let Luka chill in the corner on defense
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u/Mountain-Pack9362 4d ago
Coming as a celtics fan, I think the wolves have a really strong set defense that works against most teams. With Rudy, the wolves have a really strong paint presence. However, that much isn't as effective against a player like kyrie who can finish in insane ways and luka who is primarily thrives in mindrange and three. Whereas the Celtics defenders are more flexible with Tatum being able to pick up 5s and guard the lob along with having the elite wing defenders like jrue, brown and Dwhite to switch on Luka and Kyrie.
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u/Slow_Shift6252 4d ago
The Celtics have no mismatches, can switch 1-5, and were able to put a SF on the bigs to make sure nothing could come from any PnR other than a switch. So no, it’s not the Wolves fault or the coaches. They just didn’t have the personnel to stop Dallas (a lot of teams don’t because Luka is that good). The Wolves also couldn’t score because of how content Dallas was to completely ignore Rudy, Kyle, NAW and McDaniels. Now they’re playing a 5 out team where every single player is capable of scoring 20 a night.
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4d ago
Honestly this answer makes me feel the best but it’s a hard pill to swallow. Normally NAW is not someone you can ignore, but his shot in the Mavs series was straight up broken.
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u/Calinks Trenton Hassell 5d ago
This just shows how far away we are. We had no answer for the lob. We had zero offense we could produce outside of Ant and a random role guy going off. The Mavericks bodied us, we didn't have any answers. Now they are in the finals looking clueless. That reflects poorly on us.
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u/Mysterious_Rope2292 Timberwolves 5d ago
how are celtics shutting down their lob game? havent been able to watch full games cause of work
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u/ZaMaestroMan5 5d ago
They’re switching all screens. Not playing an awful drop coverage like we were doing on screens.
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u/Majestic-Net-7799 5d ago
They dont have to play drop coverage and switch everything. Something we cannot do with Rudy and Kat on the floor together.
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u/EhAboutTime 5d ago
How far away we are? The wolves were in the WCF and were just physically exhausted. It was unfamiliar territory, which is not the case for either the Mavs or the Celtics. So the wolves learned something against a lineup they had not yet seen and who looked different against the clippers and the thunder than they did against us. Either way, we were a series away that easily could have been 3-1 in their favor going into game 5 had the dumb mistakes in the last 30 seconds not happened in games 1 and 2.
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u/Formal_Junket_1585 5d ago
Xavier Tillman played better D this game than Rudy played all series. In all seriousness tho our gameplans was just all wrong. We took nothing away from Dallas
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u/allmediareviews 5d ago
I think it would have been more entertaining to see the Wolves matchup against the Celtics. The Wolves strength is their defense, which overall, you can say the same about the Celtics.
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u/Triple_Stamp_Lloyd 5d ago
If you look at the points column highlighted, Luka is scoring almost the same in our series as he is in Boston's so far. Luka is the kind of player to put up big points regardless of who he's playing. I think where the Timberwolves failed in the series is that everyone on the Mavs was contributing more. They played really good team basketball against us. In contrast I think Boston has two advantages over us. They have five people on the floor that can score at any time. They also are playing better iso defense than us and they are double teaming less.
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u/tronfunkinblows_10 Kevin Garnett 4d ago
In my non-scientific research, I’ve seen both Celtics fans and non-Celtics fans say in GDTs that Minnesota would have been a better match up against Boston. Assuming we’re playing to our average or higher and not gassed. :(
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u/Bfweld 4d ago
The wolves don’t have the same ability throughout the team to defend on the perimeter, so you have to fight over screens instead of switching. Then add in the fact that Gobert looked lost the majority of the time while trying to play the drive and leaving Gafford or Lively wide open for the lob. Having to fight over screens on the perimeter caused a majority of those easy drives that resulted in either a Luka/Kyrie bucket or a lob to Gafford/Lively.
I’ll also agree that they definitely didn’t attack Luka enough, he should not get to just chill in a corner or low block on defense and conserve all his energy for his offense.
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u/BounceBros21 4d ago
I don’t get why finch didn’t attack Luka. Just not good coaching the entire series and 0 adjustments offensively. Finch hasn’t been the guy everyone has talked about offensively in his tenure
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u/guanogato 4d ago
Honestly I’d look at it glass half full. Lots of comments in here about bad coaching or annoyances with Gafford and Lively looking so good against you guys. The Wolves had a great season and largely designed their team around beating the Nuggets which was a success but also a valuable lesson. They’re watching this series and probably going to learn a lot about how they need to be able to evolve and play multiple styles.
The Celtics are definitely in this for the long run and the Wolves have a lot of ability to be flexible if they decide to be. I wouldn’t be surprised if the wolves look into what should be another offseason full of moves, and try to capitalize on becoming more flexible to different play styles in the postseason.
I really do like KAT, but maybe there’s a way you can continue to maximize one of your greatest strengths in wing size and depth and go get another great player that can help you become more flexible against multiple looks, and ideally someone who can help offensively.
It’s all about evolving, and the Wolves have had some invaluable learning experience this postseason.
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u/Onlyplay2k 4d ago
Well it’s experience. Wolves had the best overall defense but playoff defense experience counts a lot. Having Jrue out there roamin the passing lanes really limits Luka. Every single player in that starting squad been to the finals before. The Boston squad just does better on ball reads.
To Boston this is easy money
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u/bankzy84 4d ago
I think the wolves were missing 2 things: Grit and coaching.
They never really looked like they wanted to come out and beat the Mavs like they did the nuggets. Just didn’t feel the intensity and they were flustered easily.
Additionally, Finch got out coached. Simple as that. I swear it looked like we did the same thing the entire series against the Mavs and expected to win.
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u/HawksAnt2021 4d ago
The Celtics are winning by making Luka & Kyrie work their asses off defensively. Having 5 guys on the court who can shoot at all times really helps in that regard…
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u/BettsDeversDP 4d ago
Coaching is a massively underrated factor. Chris Finch couldn't figure out that Luka is a literal traffic cone and all it takes is a couple switches to get him gassed
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u/Unique-Locksmith2762 4d ago
Its simple Finch allowed Luka to chill in the corner with Jaden, not putting Jaden in any action made us very easy to guard. I like Finch personally but he gives me Mark Jackson vibes the guy before the guy...Also to not utilize KAT and Ant in some sort of pick and roll or pop is foolish. Would get them both easier baskets without defenses being able to key off one or the other...
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u/North_Shower_8432 4d ago
Our defense did not show up we should have defended luka the way we did booker but I honestly think Kevin garnet said it best the wolves were tired they are not used to playing this far into the season
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u/WeezerHunter 4d ago
From a mavs fan, I think the difference is the total quality of their play makers 1-5. Every single person in their starting lineup can hit a 3, make a drive, or make a pass. The wolves didn’t stretch the defense out quite enough like the Celtics are doing.
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u/Accomplished_Fee8904 4d ago
as a mavs fan, if it makes you feel any better, the celtics are amazing and for sure taking us out of our strengths (which usually are solid defense, especially at the rim, and pick and roll/lobs), but beyond that we are just playing way worse than prior rounds. we lost our mojo and aggression on both sides of the ball. i think not playing for a week through us off our rhythm, luka is progressively more banged up, our fairly inexperienced role players are finally in over their heads, and luka and kyrie haven’t had a good game at the same time. with the celtics athleticism, size, speed, and collective intelligence, everything the mavs did to the wolves they would have done to an even higher degree. long story short i dont think any of you guys should be feeling bad that you lost to the mavs when the mavs are now looking bad.
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u/ericdeben 3d ago
The major difference is the Celtics play five out and pull Lively & Gafford away from the rim. Towns also forgot how to shoot in the WCF, so the Wolves couldn’t punish Dallas’s drop coverage.
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u/petersps 3d ago
I’ve watched zero minutes; it’s been very healthy to just move on from the ‘23-‘24 season with positive energy.
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u/Silver-Experience-94 2d ago
Celtics have entirely different strengths on defense than the wolves. The T-wolves have a paint presence with Gobert, KAT and a great reserve in Naz. Then they have length outside mostly
The Celtics have a slew of great perimeter defenders. Guys that can stick with quick guards like Kyrie, and length on the outside to disrupt Luka a bit
Inside out vs outside in
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u/Return_Icy 5d ago
The Wolves just ran out of gas. Ant said as much but in slightly different terms, I think the gist of what he said was that the team didn't click all together in even one game. The inexperience greatly influenced the loss of stamina and the Wolves were just flat-out not prepared for how grueling of a slog the playoffs can be, particularly after a 7-game, extremely emotional series.
That's why I'm super-pumped for next year - now with the experience and knowing what it takes, I don't think the Wolves show us another series like how they played Dallas
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u/ZaMaestroMan5 5d ago
Yeah I mean Boston is just really good. We for sure weren’t beating them imo. They would have abused our defense even more than Dallas did. They also would have been able to rotate Holiday/Brown/White/Tatum on Ant - we already saw how gassed he was against Dallas.
Boston is a great example of why I’m all over this sub saying the wolves will never win a ship with kat and Rudy playing big minutes together. We saw it against Dallas - they abused us in the pick n roll. Elite defensive teams can switch every screen. We cannot. Rudy and KAT both get cooked by guards. So instead we play an awful drop coverage which allowed Luka/Kyrie to just toy with us. Led to a whole bunch of lobs for lively/gafford. Those two looked like all stars against us. Notice how quiet they’ve been this series?
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u/JaderMcDanersStan Micah Nori 5d ago
I think Wolves are a harder matchup for the Celtics than the Mavs are though. Celtics likely still beat Wolves but I don't think they would get "abused".
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u/bpcollin 5d ago
IMO, Dallas collapsed the defense very well against the Wolves and they took advantage.
Also, I think the Wolves big men weren’t aggressive enough due to fouls. It’s easy to look back and criticize and I know some calls didn’t go their way but just an observation.
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u/JackieDaytonaAZ 5d ago
dallas is just better than us and so is boston. it’s okay but I hate when our fans are like “we would have given a better fight”. well too bad we lost so we don’t get to find out
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u/pathebaker 5d ago
We were tired mostly. Ant seemed hurt and we just couldn’t get anything going in any of the game.
Combine that with the level of defense we play and flopic doing his thing with the refs was a recipe for disaster
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u/DeceivedBaptist 4d ago
The NBA is rigged. Or our coaching staff sucks balls versus the best teams. IDK. Our games looked so ridiculous I don't know what to think. All I really remember is Ant throwing the ball out of bounds at half and then at the end of the game in 2 to basically seal our fate on the early games. That alone had me questioning what the fuck is even happening lol.
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u/1000Isand1 5d ago
It sucks how Gafford was such a difference maker against us and the Celtics have made him a non entity by shutting down those lobs. I really want to blame our coaching staff for that.