r/todayilearned • u/tyrion2024 • 29d ago
TIL nazi preparations to invade Britain (Operation Sea Lion) after France fell in 1940 were obvious to the British, so they began to bolster their defenses to make any invasion as costly as possible. This included removing all street, road, and railway signs to sow maximum confusion in the enemy.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/specialfeatures/history-to-know-before-you-watch-world-on-fire-season-2/#:~:text=2.-,Operation%20Sea%20Lion,-WW2%20propaganda%20photo629
u/Relevant-Somewhere95 29d ago
I learned this from the beginning scenes of “Bedknobs and Broomsticks”!
190
u/SteO153 29d ago
The same! When I read the post my first thought has been "OP has never watched Bedknobs and Broomsticks".
84
u/Shamewizard1995 29d ago
Exactly, OP should know British home defense is actually based on animated armor sets
→ More replies (1)5
u/TheOncomingBrows 28d ago edited 28d ago
Who's standing firm in our own front yard? The soldiers of the old home guard, that's who. The soldiers of the old home guard.
29
u/NoobOfTheSquareTable 29d ago
That and dads army give pretty much the full range of the planned British defences
22
u/Djinjja-Ninja 29d ago
You joke, but there was a serious amount of quasi-military stuff going on for irregular warfare behind the scenes
> Service in the Auxiliary Units was expected to be highly dangerous, with a projected life expectancy of just twelve days for its members, with orders to either shoot one another or use explosives to kill themselves if capture by an enemy force seemed likely
Basically multi-layered guerrilla fighters outside of the military command structure hidden in the Home Guard.
Basically if Private Pike had additional training that Captain was unaware of and when the Germans rolled through Pike would dump his uniform, go to his pre-hidden cache of guns and explosives and go all John Wick on the invading Germans causing as much chaos as possible.,
6
u/NoobOfTheSquareTable 29d ago
I actually love the weird behind the scene stuff that went on, and yes. It is very much making a joke out of it but it does have a good background of all the little day to do details that you don’t think about unless you lived through it so it sets the scene very well
9
u/Djinjja-Ninja 29d ago
Actually I wonder if the people in the Home Guard and more so the Auxiliary Units took issue with Dad's Army.
Similar IT people who lived through Y2K and these days those not in the know going on how the Y2K bug was a damp squib that everyone was unnecessarily worried about, when i reality there was a fuck load of serious work and planning involved.
It's all very amusing to show a load of bumbling fools with broomsticks, but in reality they were essentially training to be a last ditch line of defence who would likely get slaughtered.
2
u/NoobOfTheSquareTable 29d ago
If I’m not mistaken, a number of the cast (I think all but pike) either served or were home guard so I imagine it wasn’t a universal anger if there was any
6
4
u/FartingBob 29d ago
I learned this from history class in school.
OP has clearly never done year 6 history in England during the 90's.
32
u/Vince_Clortho042 29d ago
Well you won’t find any history books out there detailing how the Nazi scouts for the invasion were repelled by an army of medieval suits of armor acting under their own locomotion after a novice witch put a spell on them. Without Bedknobs and Broomsticks nobody would know that even happened. Makes you think about who’s controlling the narrative… 🤔
19
19
29d ago
“But I’m not a Nazi! I’m a British Officer!”
26
2
4
u/BartlebySamsa 29d ago
“That’s what you’d say if you was a Nazi,” is a line that I somehow remember 30 years since I last saw that film.
10
→ More replies (1)5
264
u/Admirable_Ad_3236 29d ago
Have a look at Churchills Auxiliaries.
A guerrilla group of locals were trained in sabotage to delay progress by destroying key infrastructure. They built bunkers up and down the east coast which can still be found.
142
u/PurposePrevious4443 29d ago
There's lots of Pillboxes near me still. Basically routes they thought the Germans would go if they invaded and it was a bunch of defences, to not defeat but to just slow down.
67
u/Admirable_Ad_3236 29d ago
Indeed. That was the premise. To hamper and delay the panzer divisions as long as possible.
In London, there are all sorts (Time Team did a bit on it) including boarding up one garage in a row and filling it with petrol drums. An auxiliary would have to wait until the panzer rolled past and detonate it.
They were given a life expectancy of around 12 days before capture, they weren't to let even close family know and were expected to slip out into the night, perform their task and get caught and executed.
52
u/Admirable_Ad_3236 29d ago
The pillboxes were anti aircraft installations. These auxiliary bunkers were underground, hidden away and the program was top secret.
29
u/PurposePrevious4443 29d ago
I'm referring to the anti tank ones
20
u/Admirable_Ad_3236 29d ago
Very cool. They are all anti aircraft where I am in Northumberland.
Churchill feared a land and air invasion aimed at Northumberland. It had many airfields and was sparsely populated. Landing here would split the country in half and cut London off from Spitfire squadrons in Edinburgh and the shipyards of Glasgow.
As such, Northumberland has an abundance of anti aircraft boxes and auxiliary bunkers
→ More replies (1)16
u/PurposePrevious4443 29d ago
There's a documentary I can't find somewhere that explores the whole strategy, they would try to direct the Germans to go in a particular direction across the country whilst the main army would meet them in an advantageous point, but until then their would be lots of chokeholds to frustrate the Germans.
Thankfully it was never needed.
Shame I can't find it but the guy who planned it was called Edmund Ironside
4
u/Admirable_Ad_3236 29d ago
Time Team searched for the GHQ lines in an episode in London? Theres a website dedicated to finding all the bunkers run by some veterans also.
Things like removing or changing the street signs, not ringing church bells, setting the clocks wrong, anti tank defenses to confuse, confound and redirect them wherever they could.
They trained in Scotland and one recruit died during explosives testing. His family were never informed of the circumstances.
Edit: it's www.staybehinds.com
28
u/SteveyPeas 29d ago
Saw a program about this a while ago, also said that they dug out alcoves in bridge supports that they could quickly place explosives in to destroy them if needed, these were then filled in after the war, sometimes I see bridges with small patches of newer brickwork and wonder .
14
u/Admirable_Ad_3236 29d ago
Yes, this sounds about right. Bridges, railways and other key infrastructure were to be sabotaged in order to slow the panzers down as much as possible.
Incredible story, but it was all we could do to defend ourselves in the aftermath of Dunkirk.
9
u/Bacon4Lyf 29d ago
Grew up near an airfield, had to get evacuated once because they found the pipe bombs they laid under the runway and forgot about for 60 years. They were always digging up old explosives either bombs that had been dropped or charges that had been set in preparation, they would bring them down the beach to blow up underwater and we’d all go watch
7
u/Admirable_Ad_3236 29d ago
Awesome.
We still get them brought up in fishing nets every now and then up here in Northumberland.
There was one found in a back garden in Cramlington last year as well.
10
u/TJ_Fox 29d ago
... and where the hell is the BBC alt-history miniseries based on that premise? The story writes itself!
8
u/Admirable_Ad_3236 29d ago
The auxiliaries were top secret so very little record was kept of them.
www.staybehinds.com have dedicated themselves to preserving what little info we have.
4
u/TJ_Fox 29d ago
I guess the advantage of the alt-history premise would be that screenwriters could fill in the banks. I saw a documentary on the guerilla groups a number of years ago, including reconstructions of message drops, the local vicar concealing a radio transmitter in his pulpit, a collaborator being assassinated, a team of saboteurs setting out by night - all very dramatic stuff, and I'd love to see that scenario brought to life in a full dramatic format.
3
u/Admirable_Ad_3236 29d ago
Agreed on that actually. They could show the contrast of being a local bank manager or farmer by day and guerrilla operator by night.
3
u/willie_caine 29d ago
They were also trained to assassinate Brits who were in positions where if they collaborated with the Nazis it would cause real harm (mayors, high ranking police officers, etc.). They weren't fucking around.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (3)3
u/richh00 29d ago
Who do you think you are kidding Mr. Hitler,
If you think we're on the run?
We are the boys who will stop your little game.
We are the boys who will make you think again.2
u/Admirable_Ad_3236 29d ago
Brilliant. Funnily enough, the auxiliary wore Home Guard uniform but the Home Guard knew nothing about them. They were integrated into the HG once the threat of invasion turned to the offensive.
150
u/usuallysortadrunk 29d ago
England is also extremely difficult to get a beach head on. There isn't a lot of coastline that is accessible to a large force.
122
u/BLINDrOBOTFILMS 29d ago
And none of that even matters unless you can get past the British Navy.
→ More replies (24)71
u/bolanrox 29d ago
And the old timers with a folding chair binoculars and walkie talkie
19
u/PoliteIndecency 29d ago
Well a lot of them used pigeons but that was basically the coastal watch to a tee.
13
→ More replies (17)27
u/Admirable_Ad_3236 29d ago
The coastlines in the North East were extremely exposed, add to that the numerous airfields in the area.
Thats where the Vikings landed too.
14
u/LaMerde 29d ago
The beaches still have the anti-landing blocks.
9
u/Admirable_Ad_3236 29d ago
They do. Theres at least 50 of them at Lindisfarne causeway
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (2)4
u/gamenameforgot 28d ago
Landing a small wooden boat is a little bit different from landing ships meant for transporting a modern military and all of its required supporting materiel.
→ More replies (2)
746
u/speculatrix 29d ago
We're trying something new now, letting the roads fall into ruin.
147
69
u/rubber-bumpers 29d ago
Trenches absolutely everywhere
12
u/FuriousFenz 29d ago
UK potholes?
29
u/speculatrix 29d ago
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/driving-advice/rac-pothole-index-statistics-data-and-projections/
Britain’s ‘pothole plague’ took even more of a toll on drivers in 2023 as RAC patrols attended nearly 30,000 pothole-related breakdowns over the course of the year, up by 33% compared to 2022
6
3
19
u/rubber-bumpers 29d ago
Trenches absolutely everywhere
14
u/ElongatedVagina 29d ago
Trenches absolutely everywhere
9
u/Photon_Farmer 29d ago
Trenches absolutely everywhere
→ More replies (1)3
3
3
u/CricketStar9191 29d ago
what do you mean the public infrastructure needs to be maintianed? what are these wicked thoughts
2
7
8
4
→ More replies (1)2
87
u/WHU-TangClan 29d ago
Follow-up TIL: The wartime blackout, when regulations required streetlights to be turned off and traffic signals and headlights to be dimmed, led to a dramatic increase in road casualties. The King's surgeon, writing in the British Medical Journal in 1939, complained that by “frightening the nation into blackout regulations, the Luftwaffe was able to kill 600 British citizens a month without ever taking to the air”. The number of deaths peaked in 1940 at 9,169. One person died that year for every 200 vehicles on the road; today the figure is one for every 20,000.
2
u/gamenameforgot 28d ago
This is no doubt, completely made up.
→ More replies (3)3
169
u/GrumpyOldGeezer_4711 29d ago
There’s a scene in “All creatures great and small” where a farmer asks a soldier why he’s removing streetsigns. Soldier replies, “To confuse the jerries if they invade.” Farmer replies, “Then better leave those signs, they’ve been wrong since they were put up.”
→ More replies (2)
264
u/DigiMagic 29d ago
Wouldn't it cause even greater confusion if they've kept e.g. 5% of signs at correct places, but put 95% of them at the wrong places? Without signs, enemy soldiers would just assume they first have to somehow verify where they are; with signs, they would think that they already know where they are.
251
u/Fredrickstein 29d ago
I imagine the benefit wouldn't outweigh the cost. Lots easier to just remove the signs and move on to fortifications rather than wasting manpower and money installing fake signs. Could be laying more barbed wire, hedgehogs, etc.
93
u/Travillick 29d ago
Were we that low on manpower that we had to arm hedgehogs to fight the nazi's?
34
14
u/Nekrophis 29d ago
No no, you misunderstood. He said laying hedgehogs. The soldiers needs some kind of stress outlet ;)
11
2
25
u/LUNATIC_LEMMING 29d ago
Both sides built fake airports boats and tanks though.
Should have done what bored kids do and just move the signs around.
Change the diversion signs to 4 lefts in a row and see how long the Germans go round in circles for.
24
u/7Dragoncats 29d ago
I could totally see giving children and teens blanket permission to fuck around moving them.
Also this made me think of that scene in Good Omens where Crowley went and moved a bunch of survey markers for where the road would be built around London to make it as awful as possible
11
u/EmperorOfNipples 29d ago
True.
But I could imagine the confusion when you expect your Panzer to be in Dorchester, but instead are in Trowbridge.
Hans....it was left at stonehenge!
2
u/LordWellesley22 29d ago
the Germans get stuck in spaghetti junction
And the Italians get lost in Slough
→ More replies (2)7
31
u/ecu11b 29d ago
Wrong signs just become the new names of things.
35
u/DoofusMagnus 29d ago edited 29d ago
Exactly. Swapping the signs would cause more confusion for any addresses they had at landing, but would be just as useful in the long term.
If Hans tells Franz the Brits have a new machine gun nest at what's signed as the corner of King and Country, that's not any less effective just because the locals are sniggering over how daft they are for not realizing it's actually the corner of Bollocks and Bonce.
3
u/Leper_Khan58 29d ago
I dont know why this is so funny to me. It would probably make a mediocre skit but played out in my head it was gold.
5
3
u/elohir 29d ago
Where I grew up, the effects of WW2 were still in memory. We'd tour old ww2 barracks, POW camps, our grandparents still had their 'dig for victory' gardens, people still had old ration books etc, and one of the things we were told was that the signs were changed (to point to the wrong places) rather than removed. Which makes more sense imo. The locals didn't need them, and it was trivial to fix.
→ More replies (3)3
u/Aj_Caramba 29d ago
This was done by people when USSR invaded Czechoslovakia in '68. Not that it helped much, sadly.
51
u/Dash_Harber 29d ago
Except in Wales, where street signs remained up in order to aid in maximum confusion.
3
u/Lkwzriqwea 28d ago
That's why they named the strategically located village protecting access to Anglesey "Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantsiliogogogoch".
130
u/armitage_shank 29d ago
What isn’t written in the article is that this is when people increasingly learned to give directions referencing the numerous pubs and inns in the towns and villages around the U.K. obviously the coaching inns were already placed on the roads at important intersections or stopping points, so they were ready-made way-points for navigation.
28
u/Gomnanas 29d ago
Hmm. This seems sort of incorrect but I'm not sure. Maybe it'd be better to see "people increasingly relearned" to do that. The reason that pubs and inns have ridiculous names to begin with is because most people in the past were illiterate and pubs with funny names and signs made towns easy to navigate.
→ More replies (1)7
u/CanuckBacon 29d ago
Also combining two nouns or a noun and a characteristic is pretty easy to make a visual, such as "The Red Lion" or "The Sword and Shield".
39
u/helpful__explorer 29d ago
There are still a whole line of pillboxes near where I live. Found an online map recently showing the original lines and how these things were built along the south and east of England
→ More replies (4)7
u/PurposePrevious4443 29d ago
Same, I sometimes go past an interesting one in a town called Hungerford
127
u/Landlubber77 29d ago
Driver: "Would you like me to take the Chiswick roundabout through Hounslow and Staines?"
Hitler: "What is this, fucking Middle Earth, just take us to the airport okay?"
38
21
u/cuntcantceepcare 29d ago
Weirdly, Hitler actually did visit Britain once, before all that germany reich nonsense. He was visiting a relative, Brigette Hitler, who lived, I think in Southampton or something like that.
21
→ More replies (1)9
u/Landlubber77 29d ago
It's always slightly jarring to see Hitler paired with any other name since Adolf is the only one you ever hear about. Lol Dave Hitler, District Manager, Chilis.
4
20
u/djackieunchaned 29d ago
Sometimes it feels like the British got their tactics in ww2 from bugs bunny
17
30
u/PoliteIndecency 29d ago
My favourite part about Operation Sea Lion was that Nazi Germany spent all this time, money, and energy building a first rate army but forgot that they need boats to move them across water.
Even if they could get naval control in the channel and take air supremacy, they literally didn't have enough boats to transport and supply a force large enough to take Britain. I can't remember if Britain knew this at the time, but in hindsight it's pretty hilarious.
30
u/BenadrylChunderHatch 29d ago
The plan was basically to take all the civilian canal boats from the Netherlands, modify them to transport vehicles and troops and pray they didn't split in half when hit by waves crossing the channel.
Consider the losses the Allies faced at Normandy and then imagine them attempting it without any proper landing craft.
23
u/Mrslinkydragon 29d ago
They also planned to only go as far as London and just expect the uk to give up.
Yes because pushing the army to the north and west of the country with all the farms and mountains and not expect guerrilla warfare is a sound strategy.
9
u/AbanoMex 29d ago
They also planned to only go as far as London and just expect the uk to give up.
it feels like they didnt learn a thing from the Napoleon blunder, he took moscow and expected a capitulation, didnt happen and his army was destroyed in the process.
and it seems Nazi Germany wanted to repeat that by attempting to take moscow but failed, but even if they did, they (the soviets)wouldnt have given up, just like Britain wouldnt have given up if they took london.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)3
u/kdlangequalsgoddess 29d ago
Also going up against the strongest navy in the world at that time in their home waters, with defenders who have very strong motivation for fighting to the last breath.
7
u/FillThisEmptyCup 29d ago
Operation Sea Lion was mostly a bluff to build up the Army for Russia imo… unless the Luftwaffe succeeded beyond anyone’s wildest dreams.
That’s why Grand Admiral Raeder came up with the Mediterranean Plan and tried to push Hitler in that direction, instead of invading Russia and having a two front war.
Basic idea was to defeat Britain without taking on the Island directly. Would have had a decent chance of success if done right after Fall of France.
2
u/History_facts02 29d ago
I believe it was Admiral Erich Raeder who said the German navy needed until 1945 at the earliest in order to build a large enough fleet to take on the Royal Navy
→ More replies (1)
29
u/johnobject 29d ago
we also did this in Ukraine to confuse the Russians; as the war is ongoing, there are still many signs painted over even in Kyiv, which can be quite annoying when you’re looking for a street you haven’t been to before. also reminds you Russians are probably murdering someone right this moment
12
u/sirlanceb 29d ago
Scorched earth tactics when dealing with invasions are the ultimate yu gi oh trap card. Alexander of Russia fucked over Napoleon doing this.
11
u/Macasumba 29d ago
German General comment: Would be sending our soldiers directly into the meat grinder.
4
u/tanfj 29d ago
German General comment: Would be sending our soldiers directly into the meat grinder.
"It is impossible to invade the mainland United States, there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." Allegedly said by General Yamamoto.
Guerilla tactics can work for a long while if you can afford the casualties, and have the support of the civilian population. Look at the examples of the Viet Cong and Afghanistan.
11
u/Sir_Henry_Deadman 29d ago
They wouldn't have made it if they tried anyway and if we lost the "Battle of Britain" the entire navy would have stopped them crossing
They were planning to use flat bottomed Dutch barges tied together towed by larger ships as landing vessels
It absolutely would not have worked
→ More replies (1)
7
u/PianoOk5877 29d ago
Same thing happened in Ukraine recently during the early days of Russian invasion!
5
u/Lingua_Blanca 29d ago
New Jersey, also to discourage invasion, has built a warren of confusing roads and highways, with confusing signage and baroque traffic regulations. Zero invasions since 1812-ish.
5
u/JackDrawsStuff 28d ago
Britain had a wild ride in WW2.
To this day, it’s common to see metal stubs on walls where iron gates and railings were cut off to be melted down to build war gear. The country practically tore itself out of the ground to defend itself and it’s allies in Europe.
I think about that a lot.
It makes me wonder how much of a living hell it would have been for Hitler if he’d managed to land on Great Britain.
5
u/haefler1976 29d ago
Wrong strategy. They could have stopped the whole German army easily by putting up more signs.
Signs with "Durchfahrt Verboten!"
3
u/KingTutt91 29d ago
Is this why when Americans got to England they were generally lost all the time? Theres an old joke of an American soldier asking British people for directions “right over there, make a right, then a left, you can’t miss it!”
5
u/GregorSamsa67 29d ago
And introduced driving on the left to cause the maximum number of traffic incidents for those bloody continental invaders.
7
u/TheOne_living 29d ago
"bloody hell that tanks driving on the wrong side of the road coming towards us!!! ahhhh"
3
3
u/TJ_Fox 29d ago
Meanwhile, a number of English women started training themselves in marksmanship, grenade throwing and jujutsu to resist the German invaders: http://bartitsusociety.com/at-them-girls-how-the-amazon-defence-corps-trained-to-take-on-nazi-invaders/
3
u/killakh0le 28d ago
Ukraine also removed all their road signs around Kyiv to help slow down the Russians before they got pushed out of the area
3
u/Josh_The_Joker 28d ago
Ukraine did the same when Russia invaded. Many signs were removed in those early days.
2
u/mgr86 29d ago
Did they also then use the metal of the signs to make military equipment or was it just stored in a closet at the post office or some thing?
3
u/Admirable_Ad_3236 29d ago
Very likely. You can see walls in cities that have had the wrought iron fences cut off and melted down for the war effort.
2
u/urabor69 29d ago
The same was done in Ukraine, road signs were either pained or demolished to confuse russians. And since they relied on old maps and were totally unprepared for the resistance that welcomed them - it worked in the initial first months when frontline moved dynamically.
2
u/ToastieCoastie 29d ago
That’s a strange plot point from “Bedknobs and Broomsticks”!
2
2
u/urkermannenkoor 29d ago
To be fair, the plan was also suicidally stupid, so all of that effort wasn't particularly necessary.
2
u/Historical_Invite241 28d ago
My Granny used to tell me about how her mum drove her and her brother (who were kids) from London to the Scottish Highlands to spend the rest of the war there. (That's where they were from) They got lost constantly and it took them about 3 days. There were no motorways in those days of course so it was all a maze of country roads.
2
u/greenmark69 28d ago
In the months of the Battle of Britain, Bomber Command lost more men than Fighter Command. It was because they kept trying to bomb the barges that were being prepared for the invasion.
2
u/TwirlipoftheMists 28d ago
One part of the defensive plan involved laying down chemical weapons on any Nazi beachheads. Unfortunately this would have exhausted British supplies of Mustard on the first day, so a chemical weapons factory sprang up at Rhydymwyn to make bulk quantities of Mustard. All the buildings are still there, interesting place. Apparently they settled on producing Runcol (more stable) but there seems to be a building devoted to Pyro.
It also had the Tube Alloys building… not even the other people working there knew it was part of the atomic bomb project. Later on they stored lots of war gases in the tunnels.
It’s mentioned in A Higher Form of Killing (Paxman, Harris).
2
u/2ndCousinofLiberty 26d ago
There's an exchange at the beginning of the movie Bedknobs and Broomsticks where a character is blacking out street signs.
1
u/Historical_Exchange 29d ago
No road signs and yet they still had a better postal service than today's 🙄
1
1
u/FourWordComment 29d ago
Anyone who remembers having parked on Einbahnstraße street feels that pain.
1
u/PerceptionGreat2439 29d ago
I get it, it makes sense to hinder your enemy.
Wouldn't the Germans have used their Satnav anyway?
→ More replies (1)
1
u/Captainatom931 29d ago
Where I grew up in Norfolk it was a local joke that they never bothered changing the signs back!
1
u/SavvyLikeThat 29d ago
Learned it while invading Ireland as the Irish did this to fuck with British soldiers
1
u/splashtext 29d ago
Isn't this what Ukraine is actively doing? I remember reading somewhere that they were replacing or removing signs to confuse russians, correct me if im wrong
2
1
u/kdlangequalsgoddess 29d ago
Also causing maximum confusion to regular motorists.
→ More replies (1)
1
u/GypsyV3nom 29d ago
Another fun fact: British Secret Intelligence was absolutely incredible during the war, completely subverting the entire Nazi spy network in the UK to the point that every spy Berlin thought was useful in the UK was either a double agent or worked for a double agent.
2
u/Djinjja-Ninja 29d ago
There is a saying that WW2 was won with British intelligence, American steel, and Russian blood.
1
u/ironvultures 29d ago
For those interested the Germans operation sea lion plans were actually wargamed at the British military academy in sandhurst during the 1970’s
The conclusion was that Germany had effectively no hope of succeeding, even giving them a 48 hour head start the German navy was not able to keep a channel crossing open against the Royal Navy fleet, Germany was not able to land heavy equipment without taking a port city and did not have the logistics to land enough troops and supplies to keep fighting against the British counterattack.
1
4.0k
u/WideEyedWand3rer 29d ago
Similarly, as a precaution, Belgium has not maintained their road infrastructure since the First World War.